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Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  > Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?      Home login  
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 Capn_America
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 51
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?Page 3 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)

Actually Capn I think prostitution is legal in France with licensure and medical exams a component of the process


LOLOLOL And you heard that...? Trust me, it's not. It"s "tolerated" in many places, mainly Amsterdam and the "Pays Bas" but it's not legal anywhere. Else my cousin living in Paris would probably hire some every 3 days and be a VERY broke man LOL. But your right, they are tolerated in some countries tho. Evenhere in Quebec, but as for being treated right.... they are still immensely riduculed and berrated by anyone who isn't a client.


There are good and bad people in every sector of society hence you will find the good, bad and between in churches as well.


Of course. But the basic idea of Church is to uphold a Holy idea, but it's still managed by people. People with flaws, with opinions, with aspirations, with this and that...I think the ideas they defend are very different from what they actually do. The Church, as an organisation, is mainly there for power and money. Doesn't make the idea and the values they seemingly uphold any less good however. And there's always some bad apples everywhere, but your right, it's not all bad. When your priest isn't drunk on mass wine lol
 Paderic
Joined: 2/23/2010
Msg: 52
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/24/2012 10:06:01 AM

Actually Capn I think prostitution is legal in France with licensure and medical exams a component of the process



LOLOLOL And you heard that...? Trust me, it's not. It"s "tolerated" in many places, mainly Amsterdam and the "Pays Bas" but it's not legal anywhere


Not to pick a nit, but Amsterdam is not in France.

According to Wiki: Prostitution in France (the exchange of sexual services for money) is not illegal, but several surrounding activities are. These include soliciting, procuring, operating a brothel (maisons closes, lupanar or bordel in French), living off the avails, and paying for sex with someone under the age of 18.
 Capn_America
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 53
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/24/2012 10:21:40 AM
Not to pick a nit, but Amsterdam is not in France.

Umm...I didn't say it was? I don't know where you got that. Must've typed in a way that suggested it, but no. It's in the Pays Bas "Baltic countries?lol pardon my French, I dunno the english denomination) IN Amsterdam they actually made "parking spaces" for people who pick up a prostitute and want to have some services done in the car. Those places are watched by the police to make sure the prostitute isnt threatenned. It's not "legal" but its not illegal either...it's "floue".

Paderic, I stand corrected. It's complicated, it's not LEGAL, but technically not illegal either. It's complicated. As they say in France, "Cette situation particulière (ni interdite, ni autorisée)" ;its a peculiar situation. But socially speaking, it's not well viewed either. And there are no "requirements" per say, as it's not a licensed proffession, although there ARE Federations of prostitutes that assembled and requires they pass regular exams. Im far from an expert on the matter, but my cousin told me it's a BIG social debate over there right now, with odds that it won't be recognized as legal.
 Paderic
Joined: 2/23/2010
Msg: 54
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/24/2012 10:29:54 AM
Umm...I didn't say it was? I don't know where you got that. Must've typed in a way that suggested it, but no.


The person you quoted said, "Actually Capn I think prostitution is legal in France." In your response, you typed, "It"s "tolerated" in many places, mainly Amsterdam."

You're either mistaken or your rebuttal is irrelevant.
 PaminSD
Joined: 2/25/2012
Msg: 55
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/24/2012 10:32:50 AM
Well, according to the Bible, if someone is divorced and remarries, they are comitting adultery! Soooo....
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 56
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History
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/24/2012 10:35:02 AM
Mainly Amsterdam doesn't really imply France but then again I know it isn't in France so there ya go.

Doesn't really matter although this is going to irritate me because I thought it was France and probably something I stumbled upon either researching healthcare or prostitution. Might have been talking about proposed policy too, yay that my memory is currently crap :)
 dearsavannah
Joined: 5/19/2012
Msg: 57
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/24/2012 10:37:29 AM
I find religion really fascinating and when I was about sixteen I got really into studying different types. I was raised Christian, taught to go to church and be a good little girl. I remember actually saying once when I was about seven that sex was only for making babies and nothing else (because that's what I was being taught.) My mother laughed and made me write it down for my future self to laugh at.

The Bible also says that it's not okay for you to wear a piece of clothing with two different fabrics in it. I find that most people pick and choose stuff from their religion that they want to inherit into their lifestyle and ignore all of the bad things that don't make sense or upset them. Many times I'll find people saying that the reason that they don't believe in same sex marriage is because of the Bible and I ask them "Do you also think that having slaves is okay? The Bible says that it's okay, so let's all just get some slaves."

I mean... personally, I identify as Christian, but that's just because I'm familiar with it. I identified as Theravada Buddhist for a while too, haha, but can back to Christianity because of the familiarity. I think that the Bible is meant to be questioned, it's meant to be open to interpretation. I like to think of the Bible as a sort of test where all of the questions are open without a specific answer.

As for your question, I don't really know how to answer that because I don't know. I haven't met everyone in the US. But were you asking what other countries thought? Like as an overall generalization? I always wonder what other countries think about us Americans. Would be interesting to hear.

But hey, that's just me.
 good_catch77
Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 58
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/24/2012 10:40:43 AM

Do other people think the USA's is still sexually prudish, what is the cause of this and what sort of problems does it cause?


Not sure if prudish is the right word. But most people that hardcore practice every aspect of their religion respectfully does so with almost a "iron fist". They hang on to every word and never bending for anyone, even the people that love them.

I live a Bible Belt, and it is so hard to find a woman with a open mind. I'm not asking for someone that doesn't care but I don't want someone that is narrow minded.

I'm not going to down anyone's religion, or lack of...but I will say a quote my dad likes

"Minds are like parachutes, they work best when open"
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 59
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History
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/24/2012 2:24:55 PM
Correcting a small posted error:


Since he was probably dating that prostitute who's name I forget, and wasn't married to her


Referring to Mary Magdalene.

There is NO evidence whatsoever that she was ever a prostitute. That was a lie, created and perpetuated by certain male church powers who wanted to maintain 100% male dominance in the church, and it was falsely romanticized, by modern writers, such as those who penned Jesus Christ Superstar.

Nor are there any writings directly supporting the suggestion that Jesus was romantically involved with Mary.

Carry on.
 smilingrock
Joined: 11/9/2008
Msg: 60
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/24/2012 2:54:28 PM
The 13th-century Cistercian monk and chronicler Peter of Vaux de Cernay claimed it was part of Catharist belief that the earthly Jesus Christ had a relationship with Mary Magdalene, described as his concubine. Quote: "Further, in their secret meetings they said that the Christ who was born in the earthly and visible Bethlehem and crucified at Jerusalem was 'evil', and that Mary Magdalene was his concubine – and that she was the woman taken in adultery who is referred to in the Scriptures; the 'good' Christ, they said, neither ate nor drank nor assumed the true flesh and was never in this world, except spiritually in the body of Paul. I have used the term 'the earthly and visible Bethlehem' because the heretics believed there is a different and invisible earth in which – according to some of them – the 'good' Christ was born and crucified." [77]

A document, possibly written by Ermengaud of Béziers, undated and anonymous and attached to his Treatise against Heretics,[78] makes a similar statement.[79]


Also they [the Cathars] teach in their secret meetings that Mary Magdalene was the wife of Christ. She was the Samaritan woman to whom He said, "Call thy husband." She was the woman taken into adultery, whom Christ set free lest the Jews stone her, and she was with Him in three places, in the temple, at the well, and in the garden. After the Resurrection, He appeared first to her.[80]
 Capn_America
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 61
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/25/2012 7:07:52 AM
You're either mistaken or your rebuttal is irrelevant.


The Hell? I meant it's tolerated MAINLY in Amsterdam. ALSO in France. I didn't know I had to write a bloody novel to explain it......
If the quality of my english sucks it's cos I'm French. I'd enjoy some leniency, it'd be courteous. At least I don't write text speak....


There is NO evidence whatsoever that she was ever a prostitute. That was a lie, created and perpetuated by certain male church powers who wanted to maintain 100% male dominance in the church, and it was falsely romanticized, by modern writers, such as those who penned Jesus Christ Superstar.

Nor are there any writings directly supporting the suggestion that Jesus was romantically involved with Mary.



Really? I didn't even know that LOL. I wish I could say I was surprised however...


Well, according to the Bible, if someone is divorced and remarries, they are comitting adultery! Soooo....


According to the Bible, your allowed to own slaves and can stone someone who wrongs you. Soooo....
 smilingrock
Joined: 11/9/2008
Msg: 62
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/25/2012 7:31:52 AM
According to the bible there is virgin birth and Noah fit a male and female of all specie on his Ark. What a crock of chit.

Try dating a die hard catholic who does not believe in birth contro cause the church says so. Look at the current law suit filed by the catholic church against the US.
 Capn_America
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 63
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/25/2012 7:33:51 AM

According to the bible there is virgin birth and Noah fit a male and female of all specie on his Ark.


Must've been a HELLUVAH boat. Feel jealous? I sure do


Look at the current law suit filed by the catholic church against the US.


I wasn't aware. Whats it about??
 tensail
Joined: 10/15/2009
Msg: 64
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/25/2012 6:48:13 PM
yes religions r power institutions that control others, ver 2 b avioded if u want balance in ur life, largely v cororations have taken over ver influence ovr v last century n now ver in bed wit governmanet
 justlookingvt
Joined: 5/8/2010
Msg: 65
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/25/2012 10:13:15 PM
I think it says somewhere in the Bible that Texters shall go to hell. :-)
 Paderic
Joined: 2/23/2010
Msg: 66
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/26/2012 7:00:32 AM

The Catholic church condemns sex outside marriage,.....


They also forbid divorcees from remarrying, but I see lots of divorced Catholics looking for wife/hubby number two.
 msholiday1
Joined: 5/19/2012
Msg: 67
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/26/2012 9:21:05 AM
Huge conflict. Just think if you were born in another country you could be Jewish or Moslim, believing the same stuff they do. Religions are oppressive and suck the joy out of life on many levels.
 smilingrock
Joined: 11/9/2008
Msg: 68
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/26/2012 9:45:59 AM
Catholic institutions sue Obama over birth control mandate

By Gerald Herbert, AP
The birth control dispute between President Obama and some Catholic institutions is headed to court.

Dozens of Catholic organizations, from the University of Notre Dame to the Archdioceses of Washington and New York, sued the Obama administration today over a rule requiring them to provide birth control coverage as part of their health insurance plans.

Catholic groups who oppose birth control say the rule violates their religious freedom.

"We have tried negotiation with the administration and legislation with the Congress, and we'll keep at it, but there's still no fix," said New York Cardinal Timothy Dolan, president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. "Time is running out, and our valuable ministries and fundamental rights hang in the balance, so we have to resort to the courts now."

From the Associated Press:
The U.S. Health and Human Services Department adopted the rule to improve health care for women. Last year, an advisory panel from the Institute of Medicine, which advises the federal government, recommended including birth control on the list of covered services, partly because it promotes maternal and child health by allowing women to space their pregnancies.

However, faith leaders from across religious traditions protested, saying the mandate violates religious freedom. The original rule includes a religious exemption that allows houses of worship to opt-out of the mandate, but keeps the requirement in place for religiously affiliated charities.

In response to the political furor, Obama offered to soften the rule so that insurers would pay for birth control instead of religious groups. However, the bishops and others have said that the accommodation doesn't go far enough.
============================================================================
Catholics want their dont wrap it or take the pill rule to stand. Sure way to kill a persons sex life
 kmxplore51
Joined: 7/6/2008
Msg: 69
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/26/2012 10:05:43 AM
A cursory narrative of the human history will provide a reasonable evidence for the following conclusion:

"More destruction and misery to humanity have been caused by organized religions than all the natural calamities combined; and more happiness has been created by love & sex than any other gifts to the mankind".
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 70
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Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/26/2012 10:49:50 AM

Catholics want their dont wrap it or take the pill rule to stand. Sure way to kill a persons sex life


???? They don't do it by force or law. There is a very real social benefit to the Catholic method. However, it is just not very effective and is easily bypassed. It isn't a difficult point to make but apparently impossible for people to accept so they cause drama over it and confuse the situation to a total confusing mess.

Benefits of Catholic promotion of abstinence and no birth control:
-Abstinence
. No risk of pregnancies.
. No risk of STD
. No relationships based on purely physical satisfaction
. No self-esteem issues derived from pressure to have sex for teens
-No Birth Control
.No having sex with those you are not willing to commit
. No having sex with those you do not trust
. No physical side effects from chemicals
. No accidental allergic reactions from allergies
. no accidental lack of effectiveness because of antibiotics
. no monthly costs for daily pills or injections, or implants
. no lying and saying it was taken when it wasn't

Cons:
. Nearly everything above is socially stigmatized as unsexy and prude and not fun so it isn't followed leading to unexpected STD's and Pregnancies and everything that following the 'preferred' actions would prevent.

So... it being a 'sure way to kill a person’s sex life' Well... they message is to take life seriously and treat it with more respect and realize that if a baby is created due to random sex that baby is a life and has meaning and it is a monstrous lack of consciousness not to care about life to the degree that it is a thoughtless medical procedure to excise that life.

Now... It's easy to look at it and say it’s those crazy Catholics but if you were honest about it their position is the higher morality position and if they choose to pick the laws of religious freedom to protect their right to keep that as their standard for personal practice and teaching that is a valid point.

It is only because of the controversy created by the current polices that has turned this into a confusing push between the fundamental Catholics and government policies and in doing so is creating a push to expand that religious freedom further then it should be and into allowing strange things like the recent bills in Texas. Prior to this it was just accepted and live and let live. There were complaints but it was not a national ordeal.

Do I agree with the Catholic rules... Like most people... In theory but not in practice. But at least I try to understand their perspective and that they are not technically wrong. The practice just doesn’t translate well into real life. That doesn’t make them wrong.
 smilingrock
Joined: 11/9/2008
Msg: 71
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/26/2012 12:52:03 PM
"Is masturbation wrong?"
Yes. The Catholic teaching on masturbation says that masturbation is always morally wrong.

Sex is intended to be both an expression of love for your spouse, and a beautiful means of procreation.

Sex is so special, powerful, and valuable that it is properly used only within marriage. If you're not married, you should abstain from sexual activity.

I know: this is all very counter-cultural.

The truth sometimes is!

Sex is the ultimate gift husbands and wives can give: a total gift of self, body and soul. Sex is how you fulfill your wedding vows to love totally, freely, and completely. As long as you both shall live. The secret of life is hidden in that intimate sharing.

The Catholic teaching on masturbation says that masturbation denies every aspect of that promise of sex — of that promise of your vows!

Masturbation is:

Focused on yourself
A withholding from your spouse
A statement that sex is only about pleasure — your own pleasure
Inherently sterile
Often accompanied by "adultery in your heart" through pornography and fantasy
Catholics don't condemn masturbation just because of some lofty idea of what the natural purpose of sex is. We speak the truth about the harm it does to people.

That is the true reason for the Catholic teaching on masturbation: it denies the meaning of sex. It makes you less than fully human.
======================================================================
OK so Im going straight to hell cause I use condoms, had sex while single and been known to masturbate. WOE IS ME!!!!
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 72
view profile
History
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/26/2012 1:58:04 PM

OK so Im going straight to hell cause I use condoms, had sex while single and been known to masturbate. WOE IS ME!!!!


hahaha Sorry you feel that way.

I get it. Real life doesn't work the way the religious rules are. Think about it for a minute though. In other threads in the philosophy sections there are discussions about society requiring forms of euthanasia and people strongly in favor of massive population controls. Most of the people advocating for that are in favor of doing things through laws and governments and forcing it on the population in order to save the planet. You may or may not be one of those people. The difference between the religious versions of population control is that it’s your responsibility to be careful and responsible. The other version is by force of government.

So, for the lack of effectiveness of going to hell and making you feel personally responsible for the outcome the alternative is forced through law and government. As long as religion is never part of government then you’re going to hell is your own personal choice. With government enforcing a law you get a choice of a few options and potentially some of them look like this http://www.lifenews.com/2011/05/26/illegal-babies-abducted-by-chinese-population-control-officials/



As Beijing continues to vigorously pursue its infamous one-child policy, PRI has gathered evidence showing that Chinese villagers who cannot afford to pay these fines have their “illegal” children abducted and sold by Chinese population control officials.

It is well known that those who violate the one-child policy have sometimes been subjected to coerced abortions or, if they have already given birth, have been forced to pay punitive fines and have been sterilized. For example, the birth control regulations posted in one town warned that those who violate the one-child policy shall be contracepted or sterilized:


So... you think you’re awesome in your beliefs but you must at least realize they also have consequences. Forcing your choice to live your life on to others that do not agree with you is no different than them forcing their version of life onto you.

As long as the person I was in a relationship with understood religion and what’s right and wrong with it and didn't consider themselves morally superior on either side. Well…. lack of conflict is always a good thing in a relationship.
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 73
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/26/2012 4:02:41 PM
dragonbits- You have an interesting thread going here.
Here is my two cents-
I was raised Baptist. My grandparents were good people in many ways, but didn't do me any favors in shoving religion down my throat.
I do not attend church and consider myself spiritual but not religious.
I have no patience for people who use the bible and/or religion as an excuse for close mindedness and all manner of things contradictory to a life of compassion and growth as a person.
I live my life in a way that honors what I believe each and every day. Some days I fail, some I succeed, but I try.
Going to church doesn't any more make you a christian than being in a garage makes you a car. What you do outside of church says far more about you than bible thumping.
Having said all that, what becomes of your life is about accountability for your choices.
You can't blame your upbringing or use religion as a crutch.
Your ex wife was told certain things, but at the end of the day, it was up to her to continue to practice it and not keep an open mind to other possibility's.
What I'm trying to say is that we all make our choices and regardless if it's religion or something else causing the problem, if it adversely affects our lives and relationships, it's up to us as individuals to recognize it and change it.
 Capn_America
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 74
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/28/2012 7:02:56 AM

They also forbid divorcees from remarrying, but I see lots of divorced Catholics looking for wife/hubby number two.

Yup. That's cos there's paper and practice. On paper, Catholicism is this super strict "you'll go to Hell" religion. In practice, most of the people know that kind of thinking is a stricly 50-60's type of mentality that was used for 200 years or more to control people.
Anyone who still practices strict Catholicism obviously haven't joined the realities of the 21st Century. I think I'll live the life I want to live, and if God throws me in Hell, I can strike another deal with the big guy downstairs while roasting like a piggy. I'm thinking the organisation is similar to the mafia, and picture the devil as Don Corleone
Anyways, people should chill. Someone who believes won't necessary try to flood you. To THIS day I honestly have NO idea what ANY of my ex's religions were. I kinda assumed they were like mine LOL. It's so an non-issue, its not even funny.
 Capn_America
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 75
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/28/2012 7:05:11 AM

They also forbid divorcees from remarrying, but I see lots of divorced Catholics looking for wife/hubby number two.

Yup. That's cos there's paper and practice. On paper, Catholicism is this super strict "you'll go to Hell" religion. In practice, most of the people know that kind of thinking is a stricly 50-60's type of mentality that was used for 200 years or more to control people.
Anyone who still practices strict Catholicism obviously haven't joined the realities of the 21st Century. I think I'll live the life I want to live, and if God throws me in Hell, I can strike another deal with the big guy downstairs while roasting like a piggy. I'm thinking the organisation is similar to the mafia, and picture the devil as Don Corleone
Anyways, people should chill. Someone who believes won't necessary try to flood you. To THIS day I honestly have NO idea what ANY of my ex's religions were. I kinda assumed they were like mine LOL. It's so an non-issue, its not even funny.


The Catholic teaching on masturbation says that masturbation denies every aspect of that promise of sex — of that promise of your vows!


Tons of people say that. In all my years of chatting with priests, I never had one ONCE tell me that at all.
Guess our Quebec Catholic Priests have mellowed out a lot more than their other world counter-parts. Explains why so many Priests here get into regularly shouting matches with the Vatican.
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