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Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  > Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 76
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?Page 4 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)

"Is masturbation wrong?"
Yes. The Catholic teaching on masturbation says that masturbation is always morally wrong.

Sex is intended to be both an expression of love for your spouse, and a beautiful means of procreation.


Is there any Biblical injunction against women masturbating? The Judaic laws on masturbation are the silliest of the silly religious rules.

At best, religion is a way to try to understand the undefinable--with very poor results.

At worst, religion is a way to control people. This is largely what religion has been since its inception.

In this forum, some people are pointing their fingers at other sects, denominations, and religions pointing out the fallacies of THEIR beliefs but championing their own. Catholics are no less cultish than are Protestants. Those who claim to have the way and to understand the mind of god better than others are delusional.

As a pagan atheist, I said that I would never date a Christian, but I am. We discuss religion in a general way, but not specifics. If he ever suggests that perhaps I should consider becoming a Christian, I will be gone. I have not dated other men because of their hypocritical stances, including one who told me that I would be good for sex but not marriage (we never met, only had phone conversations), and one who pursued a sexual relation but said if we had such a relationship, he would go to church on Sunday and pray for forgiveness. No, thanks.

So why my change of mind?

Christianity has been evolving ever since it began. Over the centuries, the changes are easy to trace. Some Christian churches are liberal in their interpretation of the Bible. While some continue to concentrate on the hell-fire and damnation, others promote the love aspects. I have seen huge changes since I was a child, and some of the biggest have been the attitudes toward sex, including sex outside of marriage and homosexuality. Divorce was practically unheard of even when I was a girl.

If I really like someone, why not give him the chance to show how much he has "evolved" in his beliefs? I am also bisexual and polyamorous, but because monogamy is important to him, I will be monogamous by choice, not be nature.

But we continue to be a sexually prudish nation in many ways. At the same time, we use sex to sell everything. I don't see it leveling out much in the very near future, but we have progressed.
 smilingrock
Joined: 11/9/2008
Msg: 77
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/29/2012 3:57:41 PM

If I really like someone, why not give him the chance to show how much he has "evolved" in his beliefs? I am also bisexual and polyamorous, but because monogamy is important to him, I will be monogamous by choice, not be nature.


That would be way too confusing for me. I just pictured myself pulling a guy off a polyamous woman to have my turn. Nahhhhh Ill pass...
 karma1160
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 78
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/30/2012 9:27:04 AM
I think that at some age a person has got to do what they
Feel natural with and stop asking for other people to be there moral compass.
As far as the big guy goes all rules were originally set up to help people live together in peace. If you feel that you are doing right by the person you're with than you are coming from a place of love.
 J_bird61
Joined: 10/22/2011
Msg: 79
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/30/2012 5:48:23 PM
When you think about it, where does it say in the bible that enjoying sex is a sin? Maybe it does, I never saw it.
Yes, it talks about marriage being the best state to engage in sex, but still.
I think your poor ex-wife got brainwashed in this regard. It's a shame.
I'm not fond of what I hear about the catholic rules.
I have to say I don't know anyone who is a strict catholic. The ones I do know don't follow all the crazy rules but still believe in God anyway and go happily sit in their church.
 BlokeInSydney
Joined: 5/7/2012
Msg: 80
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/30/2012 5:54:40 PM

< ---- Atheist. Whewwwwww. I can be as deviant as I would like.

Haha... do tell!
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 81
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/30/2012 8:18:02 PM

That would be way too confusing for me. I just pictured myself pulling a guy off a polyamous woman to have my turn. Nahhhhh Ill pass...


You weren't invited.


Yes, it talks about marriage being the best state to engage in sex, but still.


The Hebrew Scriptures condemns sex outside of marriage except for a man taking his wife's handmaiden (ala Abraham and Hagar) or other concubines. In Christianity, Paul says it is better to marry than to burn with lust, indicating that sex outside of marriage is immoral. Acts 15:20 says that believers should refrain from sexual immorality but does not outline what this constitutes.

But this is where the "evolution" of religions enters. For centuries, women were perceived as ravening sexual creatures. Within Christianity, women were encourage to enjoy sex in order to have orgasms because sex was for procreation and it was believed that without orgasm, a woman could not conceive. This changed with the invention of the microscope when it was discovered that women do NOT have to orgasm in order to get pregnant. This resulted in the Victorian ideology that women didn't like sex.


I think your poor ex-wife got brainwashed in this regard. It's a shame.
I'm not fond of what I hear about the catholic rules.


If you think that Catholics were the only ones to promote these types of ideas about sex, you never talked to the members of my family (my mother's generation and back) who were raised Southern Baptist.
 NonamousDog
Joined: 4/20/2011
Msg: 82
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/31/2012 11:07:36 AM
kmxplore51@

"More destruction and misery to humanity have been caused by organized religions than all the natural calamities combined; and more happiness has been created by love & sex than any other gift to the mankind".

I don't know about love, but I think jealousy and sexual frustration are behind a fair amount of the violence throughout history. And I also think religious principles have often been used a mask for other motives for violence and injustice, both by the transgressors themselves and by their critics.
 purfectmeow
Joined: 4/17/2012
Msg: 83
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/31/2012 11:16:47 AM
^ Example: Helen of Troy- the face that launched a thousand ships. I agree with you on that one.
 bucsgirl
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 84
view profile
History
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/31/2012 11:20:07 AM
People have different standards upon which they make decisions that affect their actions and behaviors. It could be cultural, tradition or religion, to name a few, often there are overlaps.

I think the question was posed rather broadly, as there is not a conflict between religion and relationships DIRECTLY. In other words, you can practice a relgious faith and still have a relationship. The religious tenets that prohibit certain behaviors may cause a conflict, but it's the choice of the person to either follow them or not.

Choices and decisions are always the responsibility of each individual. What they're based on isn't important, what is more important is that each person stay true to their own values and do what they feel is best for them. Everything else is just academic and hot air.....IMO.
 Capn_America
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 85
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/31/2012 11:22:22 AM

I think your poor ex-wife got brainwashed in this regard. It's a shame.
I'm not fond of what I hear about the catholic rules.



I love it when people put stuff on Catholics (or anyone's , for that matter) backs, saying "this is what they want" or "they are all like this". Don't stop to think for 2 seconds that maybe not everyone agrees with the Pope, and not everyone follow orders.
Birth Control is very present in Quebec. The Church here, the Roman Catholic Church, does NOT condone it. They don't say your baby's soul is going to Limbo, and yours to Hell. They learned to grow up in modern times with modern realities, which is something the people up at the Vatican should. They ENCOURAGE people not to abort, to think about the consequences of the actions they are about to do. Like anyone else should. But they don't condone a 14 year old rape victim if she gets an abortion; it's modern day realities, and it saves one life, at the "maybe" price of another. Sometimes they are no alternatives, and they simply encourage someone to pray God for the strenght to go through with it, and for forgiveness for the lack of judgement on their part.
Other people simply don't give two cents of a crap. Kids die everyday, what's one more, is the mentality.
Church is a force that is there to govern the Principles that are religion. The ideals are great, the values good. Problems come when you got innane lunatics who go on preaches that all sinners are gonna burn, and that people who don't believe in God will burn in Eternal Damnation.

I mean, even for atheist, the message left by a MAN named Jesus holds true; love each other. That's the ONLY message that mattered, the rest is ridiculous details.
Anyways, sorry for the rant, but the hating sometimes sickens me. People are so quick to hate, judge, bash...they don't think. They don't stop two freakin seconds just to THINK on what their hitting on, and speak out of ignorance, hatred, malice, or what not. Instead of criticizing or putting opinion. Nah. They throw around half-zealot Truths that would make the craziest Catholic Priest burn with envy.

Religion is supposed to be something that brings people closer (and a tool of mind control for people in power, and governements....ooops, did I say that out loud? ), not something to fight over. Anyone that wants to fight soemone else over religion should REALLY look at themselves in the mirror and ask if they are as tolerant as the principles of their own religions (or their own personnal opinions, in the case of atheists) would make them believe.

There. Now stop fighting guys
 bucsgirl
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 86
view profile
History
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/31/2012 11:30:09 AM
"Religion is supposed to be something that brings people closer (and a tool of mind control for people in power, and governements....ooops, did I say that out loud? ), not something to fight over"

I agree that religion should unite people, but even with all the differences in religious beliefs, it's not the difference that's at fault it's the intolerance of an individual to allow other people the right to believe and practice whatever faith they choose. It's the old "I'm right, you're wrong" scenario.
 bucsgirl
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 87
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History
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/31/2012 11:30:44 AM
(Hey I can still edit..)

For the post below, just a quick comment. For those people who insist they're always right or where being right is really important, I haven't known a single one who wasn't miserable and usually very lonely. Tolerance is necessary to have relationships, whether with people at work, friends, family or romantic. If being right is so important, they you better be prepared to be right all by yourself.
 Capn_America
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 88
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/31/2012 11:37:14 AM

that's at fault it's the intolerance of an individual to allow other people the right to believe and practice whatever faith they choose. It's the old "I'm right, you're wrong" scenario.


Wow! Your RIGHT and I'm....well okay, I'm not wrong because were saying the same thing, but your still RIGHT!

See people? Did that hurt? Am I bleeding from anywhere? (well, I feel a slight queasyness in my stomach, but I'm sure it has a lot more to do with the big double quarter from McDonalds I had for lunch )
LOL. People love proving how cool they are compared to others.
We're all cool in are own ways, except some REAL nasty people. Those are a dime a dozen (seriously, it's supposed to be around 10%). For the rest, we should tolerate more of other, and just call the douchebags who go on rants about how they're better than anyone else, what they are; douchebags. Not the ENTIRETY of said religion or atheist.
 smilingrock
Joined: 11/9/2008
Msg: 89
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/31/2012 11:57:04 AM
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
YES

Modern relationship does not lend itself to some archaic ideas about when one should have sex or whether or not to use birth control. Abortion is another hot topic even for the not so religious people. You can toss this around any which way you want but it boils down to this; unwanted pregnancies cause poverty and bigger welfare rolls. Unlike the religious teaching God is not in the business of raising kids on his own tab.

Abstinance as preached by the church does not work with the raging hormones of young people. The person who came up with this rule most likely had a dead member that even todays Viagra would not revive. Yes we have to move on with the modern times of working couples and planned parenthood.
 Paderic
Joined: 2/23/2010
Msg: 90
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/31/2012 11:59:44 AM

For those people who insist they're always right or where being right is really important, I haven't known a single one who wasn't miserable and usually very lonely. Tolerance is necessary to have relationships, whether with people at work, friends, family or romantic. If being right is so important, they you better be prepared to be right all by yourself.


To clarify-

It is important to me that I am right in situations where it is possible to determine such. However, I do not believe that I am infallible, so it is equally important to me to accept that I am sometimes wrong and own up to it when it happens.

What I have learned is that a lot of people claim to be right in situations where it is not possible to know what is or isn't right. These people also tend to elevate their view of what is right above everyone else's. I believe these are the people you're referring to...
 bucsgirl
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 91
view profile
History
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 5/31/2012 12:09:15 PM
"It is important to me that I am right in situations where it is possible to determine such. However, I do not believe that I am infallible, so it is equally important to me to accept that I am sometimes wrong and own up to it when it happens."

Yes, further clarification -

I have known those those opinion was the only correct one, everyone else was wrong. Right is only correct for factual situations, opinions aren't right or wrong, only different. Example: If someone said "Tampa is the capital of Florida", I could say, "sorry, you're wrong it's Tallahassee". That is a fact, can be proven. If someone said "baseball is America's favorite sport" that can't be proven. (I'd want to say you're an idiot, it's FOOTBALL...haha no not really).

It's a shame that so many people argue over opinions. Personally I don't like to spend much time around those type of people, I tend to walk away....quickly.
 mcwr
Joined: 3/24/2009
Msg: 92
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 6/1/2012 9:25:22 AM
I could be wrong, but I don't believe most women, even very religious ones, are against the idea of enjoying sex DURING MARRIAGE. Even the Westboro Baptist Church believes that "anything goes" in the bedroom, in a marriage.

Reading that story made me feel sorry for you. That sounds very sad and depressing.
 Capn_America
Joined: 10/6/2011
Msg: 93
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 6/1/2012 9:29:26 AM

Love and peace to everyone

Dave of Beckenham


No one should cut and paste from books when they're smoking a Big One, Davey.
LOL Oh come on now. Don't deny it, no way in HELL your poping those out of nowehere. Where are the damned excepts from?
And if you are, might I suggest your in the wrong line of work? Try self-help or personnal motivation writing
 smilingrock
Joined: 11/9/2008
Msg: 94
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 6/6/2012 8:33:25 AM
Is it true some religions do it thru a hole in the sheet?
 purfectmeow
Joined: 4/17/2012
Msg: 95
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 6/6/2012 9:45:00 AM
^ No just through the holes in their heads, or in other "holes"~
 sddude
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 96
view profile
History
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 6/6/2012 3:37:13 PM
When i got married, I am Catholic by the way, not a perfect one, my preist gave me a religious talk before marriage like they do to all marrying people well he always mentioned to enjoy eachother in sex and love, to raise our children to love and to have strong morals and values. I married and lost my virginity on the honeymoon and I did enjoy sex alot, the contraceptive thing was not applicable since my wife could not have children. She died and i thought I could find another ,i was wrong.

Even though I have failed in my values,and beleive and follow them most of the time, religion does limit me, I beleive in jesus is God . the son of the God the father, he loved the world and forgave our sins from his bloody death and was son of a human wpoman named Mary who continues to be human up there...etc.. etc..
well it limits me because I date atiests that laugh and belittle my beleifs and see me as small minded sheep while they make up their moral values and teach non values to their children sometimes, others who are jehovas witnesses say I must convert to them so I can date them and when I do they say all the statues in my church are demons and that I thnk they have powers and are alive and that I worship a woman called mary , totally wron g but it gets me into arguments especillay when I have a cross around my neck , they call it an idol, same with baptist , some seem to really hate catholics almost calling me a devil follower, not all do that but the ones that do really disturb my feelings. Mostly many christians do not see eye to
eye and prefer not to talk about religion.

I have to tip toe around who I date who I am interested in and tend to find out who they are. I am guilty of some things also like invite them to my church, usually shocks non catholics, I tell them after sunday services there is alot of good food there, one reason I go hehehe.

People who are libral and are atheist and just beleive in "A" God with no rules or preconceptions are at an advantage , no guilt no time being used for that, no issues blocking preferences or traditions to get in a way in meeting and having sexual and romantic relationships. When one is old and on their deathbed, all that usually changes big time....or not.

It is limiting the contraceptive thing is and issue for many, it is one of those debating things that keeps going on .
 DoubleParked
Joined: 10/22/2008
Msg: 97
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 6/6/2012 3:58:02 PM
I've dated a few Catholic church-raised men and they were quite dogmatic about some beliefs and then looked for loopholes in other parts of their rules of life religion. I was raised as Swedish Lutheran, so some of the stuff they took as gospel truth was just beyond my comprehension.

To each their own, but I will never knowingly date a Catholic-raised guy again, whether he's lapsed or active. Too much conflict of values and ingrained attitudes for me<
 OnlyLovelyLady11
Joined: 8/8/2010
Msg: 98
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 6/7/2012 3:39:57 PM
I have no idea about people in America being pruddish! From my experience, it appears America has more ''Sex Addicts'' today. I believe if people don't study the word of God (King James version) Bible they will be sadly uninformed. As the word states in Isaiah, We die from lack of knowledge. As a Christian in a marriage of 30 years, we had no problem. As a Christian who tries to exalt God in the single world, I'm appauled by behavior of people who claim the title! In Romans the word states, we show that we love God by the way we obey Him. Thank you for the opportunity to share my opinion.
 AllAboutSports
Joined: 8/10/2010
Msg: 99
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 6/7/2012 4:36:51 PM
People in the states arnt sexually prudish...actually as a whole people are more open with their own sexuality...and open with their partners to try new things.Even in religious culture,but it is not spoken of out loud.I grew up catholic as well,so i understand your dilimma.However,I dont really remember sex being abad thing even in the bible...Not to be preachy...but in matthew it speaks of a prostitiute that was going to be stoned,an was told the first one of you who has never one anything wrong,by all means throw the stone..im phrphrasing here,but you get the point,also,they asked about sex and was tol it would be better to have sex with a woman than let your seed hit the irt to be eaten by the ants...again im pharaphrasing.....

My basic belief is if two consenting adults decied to take things to another level,that is their business and theirs alone.And to me its ok,because some people are just not sexually compatible.And you shouldnt feel guilty about it......thats whats so frustrating about religion now days....The bible teaches of acceptance and love,and now days all they have in the churches are those who condemn and gossip about.it use to be about uplifting an helping others.And its filled with blind ignorance.people like to take the bible literally,an some of its practices are outdted....abraham had many wives,he was a polygamist,do we do that now?of course not.it also says not to eat shellfish,but people love shrimp.it also says not to eat any unclean animal w hooves,but i hve seen blt breakfast at some....so at some point,you have to decied whats best for you and your concious,regardless of what others might think or say
 turnitupman
Joined: 1/14/2010
Msg: 100
Religion and modern relationships, is there a basic conflict?
Posted: 6/7/2012 4:50:02 PM
Root cause of the end of one of my better relationships, man.

In a nutshell, the girlfriend became very religious, and decided sex wasn't an important aspect of our love life. I wasn't very religious myself (I've since turned agnostic) and disagreed on this point :) However, she really, really liked sex, so what wound up happening fairly often was that we would both get horny, have sex, and then I would get the silent treatment for the next two days because I had "made her sin".

Eventually, I turned to porn and pretty much just spanked it every time I got horny, then she searched my computer and found said porn (apparently my fetishes were extremely objectionable), I found out she had invaded my privacy when she started screaming at me, and the rest as they say is history :)

I HATE organized religion.
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