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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > What would a perfect world look like?      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 RainGrimoire
Joined: 2/2/2011
Msg: 51
What would a perfect world look like?Page 3 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
But hold on. Indeed, what are we considering to be a trait of perfection in this scenario?
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 52
What would a perfect world look like?
Posted: 5/21/2012 6:34:39 PM
raingrimoire,

"But hold on. Indeed, what are we considering to be a trait of perfection in this scenario?"

Perfection was defined as not depleting natural resources such as fresh water, rain forests, etc; using renewable energy resources; seriously cutting down pollution; and stabilizing the population to replacement levels.

It would be what political and economic systems best foster these together, going into the future, assuming that we are now on an unsustainable and suicidal path.

I made one suggestion, that since home was once a place of production until the industrial age, with so much work being done on computer a lot of it could be done at home, there are no factories to go to operate equipment, etc. An advantage of that would be to conserve energy (gas), less pollution with rush hour traffic, etc., as well as to strengthen neighborhoods and families by having people at home more.

In other words, try to think of things past this age we are in which is built on an industrial model to another model.
 magnificent_glow
Joined: 4/6/2012
Msg: 53
What would a perfect world look like?
Posted: 5/22/2012 8:52:26 AM
in a perfect world everyone would agree, on everything.

though I'm sure someone will disagree with that, since our world aint perfect. lol
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 54
What would a perfect world look like?
Posted: 5/22/2012 5:50:03 PM
Paul K,

You seem to think that a single payor system is a scam.

Man, are you deluded.
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 55
What would a perfect world look like?
Posted: 5/22/2012 5:57:42 PM
Here are a few facts about health insurance, American style:

In the last nine years, the cost of health insurance has risen 120 percent while wages grew only 29 percent. Health insurance premiums have risen so high that experts forecast 52 million Americans will be uninsured next year.

The lack of health insurance coverage causes 22,000 deaths each year in the U.S. People without health insurance are more likely to delay medical care, to get less care and to die when they get sick.

Among the uninsured, 80 percent are employed. Total health insurance premium contributions and cash outlays for an average family of four climbed 7.4 percent this year to $16,771.

The average combined cost of health insurance premiums paid by employers and workers climbed to $12,680 for family coverage in 2008.

The number of Americans in families with problems paying medical bills in 2007 climbed to 57 million, or one in five, up from one in seven in 2003.

Since 2004, employees have seen their cash outlays for health insurance co-payments and deductibles climb by 40 percent. The monetary value of employer-based health benefits declined from 2004 to 2007 as American families were required to spend more of their own money.

Health insurers have resorted to saving money by limiting benefits, using maneuvers such as imposing sharply higher co-payments on expensive drugs needed to treat life-saving diseases.

In bankruptcy courts, 62 percent of filers said medical bills contributed to their debts in 2007.

About 45 percent of Americans say they are "very" worried about having to spend more on health insurance premiums and medical costs.

Enrollment in low-premium, high-deductible health insurance products known as "consumer-directed health plans" rose to 8 million as more companies herded workers into the coverage whether they wanted it or not.

Health care costs are expected to grow 71 percent over the next decade, which will in turn drive premium increases for health insurance. Unless we take serious steps now to reform our health care system—in particular to reduce the rate of growth in health care costs—health insurance coverage will slip out of reach for even more individuals than the 52 million Americans who today are uninsured.

Without health reform, average family premiums will grow to more than $22,000 by 2019, up from $13,100 today. In some states with higher-than-average premiums, family premiums will exceed $25,000 in 10 years. Of course, a family’s total health care costs will be even higher once co-payments and other out-of-pocket expenses are calculated into the total.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 56
What would a perfect world look like?
Posted: 5/24/2012 6:40:52 PM
What would a perfect world look like?

Simple. It would BE AT PEACE.
"Serving your country" would mean helping people in YOUR country, or international humanitarian efforts. Maybe a world at peace could devote co-operative efforts to dealing with some of the other troubling issues of the day-poverty, lack of education, poor health habits,expensive health care...but that is all details. Step #1,IMO, has got to be a world at peace.
Cindy O

,
 Blalah
Joined: 3/25/2012
Msg: 57
What would a perfect world look like?
Posted: 5/24/2012 10:14:38 PM
What would a perfect world look like?

Come to my house, look out over my lanai first thing on any given morning at the view of the majestic outer islands
over the deep blue pacific and therein lies your answer. What does it look like in the constraints of your own brain? That answer lies in the life consuming experiences that you allow to manipulate your existence.
 What_He_Said
Joined: 1/11/2012
Msg: 58
What would a perfect world look like?
Posted: 5/27/2012 5:25:07 AM
Perfect World. As a number of bright posters have stated, no such thing I'm afraid. What me be ideal for one individual may be anathema to another. Each notion may be held to have merit. It's when the competing notions of the perfect world clash clash that the difficulty comes in.

That's the rub.

Well OP, in a sense you identified one of the crucial elements-checks. More specifically, checks and balances. They help to ensure that no one framework of ideology runs roughshod over another. There may be lack of understanding distrust, friction, or even conflict. But it can be kept to keep the lid on things. Not the perfect system, but it does have it's own merits. In that respect it is close to the perfect system in that it allows co existence of those competing interests, believes or other value systems.

As to those people who do have the power to impose those checks and balances, the ancillary question becomes "who watches the watchers?"....Dunno, but wish I did know.

Interesting post.

Back to my coffee.
 Stalking_your_mom
Joined: 5/20/2012
Msg: 59
What would a perfect world look like?
Posted: 5/27/2012 1:27:48 PM
The problem with every post here is he is asking for a perfect world not this world and yet you all still can't get your own heads out of your rear ends and figure out some imagination. Imagination isn't creating things you have never created an original thought in your life imagination is breaking down ideas and assembling them back together. Unrealistic is our goal lets see how much of that we can get processed shall we?

Morality: Freedom > Evil Quality (Equality)
Population: I propose Android children and a fully operational adult class to fully utilize the population.
Economy: Capitalism's only enemy is Travel so I propose Teleportation and banning of Tourism. Communist countries squander millions in military and are hindered by economic sanctions yet they still keep crawling along, we need that evolutionary economic survivability.
Governing: A tiered voting system where each individual votes upon each candidate. Perhaps give the ability to vote for one candidate and against another. Thereby completely unrepresented candidates within the gross spending of marketing will actually stand on even political ground.
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 60
What would a perfect world look like?
Posted: 5/27/2012 5:52:31 PM
I guess I should have not said "perfect" when I meant balanced, a balanced world.

That means we don't deplete natural resources... we grow in population only to the degree that the planet can support us...etc.

For example, we are over-fishing at a rate where fish can't reproduce and emptying the ocean of fish..........I don't mean how do we have perfect fish, but what kind of system does it take to catch fish in a balance with how they can reproduce so they don't go extinct.........
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 61
What would a perfect world look like?
Posted: 5/29/2012 10:35:04 AM
Beam me up, Scotty! :-)
 Ubiquitous.
Joined: 11/7/2009
Msg: 62
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History
What would a perfect world look like?
Posted: 5/29/2012 5:14:15 PM
"huge disparities in wealth as well as in health."

You could say the same thing about genetics. Some people are born with more far "desirable" genes than others. Some are born far more healthy than others. Is that a evil? Is nature evil?



"We need growth to keep the money flowing"
Depends on what you mean by growth. If you mean the economy needs to expand and incorporate more and newer products/services indefinitely, that is not true. In recent centuries, humans have certainly *wanted* growth, but there is no *need* for it. For the vast majority of history, technology and even trade remained nearly stagnant.





"The human population is growing at exponential rates never been seen in history"
...this is absolutely not true. Hans Rosling is one of the most noted academics on the topic. He has a TedTalks presentation you can watch here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTznEIZRkLg



"stripping the earth of its resources"
With the exception of energy, which resources are we "stripping" exactly? Resources like wood, water, and metals all exist within a renewable cycle and aren't going anywhere. They're simply changing form.



"What are some answers that provide a political and economic system that fosters equality, spreads health and wealth, preserves the earth and keeps population growth in check?"
As far as I've researched, liberty-oriented political systems, that inhibit human freedom the least, foster the above the most. And as research shows, as populations become wealthier and more educated, they have fewer offspring. So much so that population *decline* can actually become a problem.
 notdating-forumsonly
Joined: 4/6/2012
Msg: 63
What would a perfect world look like?
Posted: 5/29/2012 8:34:37 PM
With the exception of energy, which resources are we "stripping" exactly? Resources like wood, water, and metals all exist within a renewable cycle and aren't going anywhere. They're simply changing form.


I'd say that fossil fuels ( energy) are a large concern that merit much more than a 'with the exception' of energy statement. These are finite fuels since they take millions of years to develop and renew; therefore, I'd say that they are of eminent concern in regard to energy until other sources of energy are actually developed to the point of powering cars and supply the same uses that are provided by fossil fuels, with the same magnitude of use and the ability to handle sustained growth of use.

Water has a renewable cycle but it is being affected by pollution and the general population growth. A preeminent concern.

OP, I'm still giving this thread good thought.
 Ubiquitous.
Joined: 11/7/2009
Msg: 64
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What would a perfect world look like?
Posted: 5/30/2012 3:53:49 AM

"no, you can't say the same thing. Assuming "undesirable" means somehow disfunction"

I was simply referring to the overwhelming, commonly-held notion that some genetic traits are perceived to be much more desirous than others. People, generally, prefer genes that lead to: higher intelligence rather than lower intelligence, more extroverted behavior rather than shy, introverted behavior, self-controlled/independent personalities rather than dependent, prone-to-addiction, personalities, and so on. Just to return your cavalier attitude, "I'm surprised any adult observing the world around them has not realized this" And that's not including genes concerning "looks", which play an enormous role in how people feel they compare to one another. I was, after all, addressing the criticism that economic liberty leads to inequality.




I didn't look at the video so I'll do that to find out what his magic "theory" maybe

It's not a "magic" ****ing theory. It's observable fact. You know, reality. As populations become more wealthy, birthrates plummet. This is not opinion. This is not "thoery". Its common sense. Why spend 5 minutes piecing together an ill-informed response when you can just take that time to brush up on your facts?

Among the people of the developed world (which is rapidly taking up a greater portion of the world population), total population *decline* is a greater problem than population growth. The birthrates of multi-generation Europeans and Americans, as well as the Japanese and many others have anywhere from negative to negligible population growth. Many of these nations show "increasing" population numbers, but this is strictly due to mass immigration. Actual birthrates are very low.

Why else do you think the doubling period of the human population has been getting longer and longer each decade? Why else do you think the projected years the human population would reach 12bn, 20bn, 50bn has been pushed further and further away. The latter one there, I believe is widely disregarded now. The numbers just don't support the conclusion that the human population will ever reach 50bn. If current economic trends continue (ie, a dramatic increase in the standard of living of most of the world), then population growth will be a scare of the past.





if you keep consuming that tree at shorter intervals, you will need more to fill the same demand, and eventually you will exhaust it down to extinction...

What are you talking about? We use more potatoes today than we ever have in history. They're not going extinct anytime soon. We have potatoe farms, where we grow potatoes en masse.

We do the *same* thing with trees. We have tree farms where we grow billions of trees on millions of acres of land. This is where there are more trees in North America today than there were 100 years ago.

So, again I pose the question. Other than fossil fuels, what resources are mankind rapidly depriving themselves of due to over-consumption? I'm dying to know.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 65
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History
What would a perfect world look like?
Posted: 5/30/2012 6:31:34 AM
I know it's a waste of time on folks like Ubiq due to the problem of cognative dissonence..
http://dgrnewsservice.org/2012/05/28/climate-change-denialism-due-to-cognitive-dissonance-rather-than-scientific-illiteracy/

But..
The "we have more trees now" argument fails to address the fact that we have far fewer forests now than at any time in human history, primarily due to human caused deforestation, human transporting introduced pestilence, sprawl, consumption, and changing climatic patterns. Locally, pine beetles, hemlock wooley adelgids, and a number of other introduced pests, have combined with invasive plant species, extreme droughts, extreme tornado outbreaks, extremely early leaf-outs followed by arctic blasts that turned forests black before rebuds, and many other factors to decimate forests and species, simplifying them, making them less resilient and more prone to further species losses.

The "more trees" that people brag about are on plantations, consisting of single species hybrid clones, containing the same diversity as a corn field, and like a corn field, they have worn out the soils, depleting them of nutrients, that the tree farms are dependent on anhydrous ammonia based fertilizers to maintain growth. We can't even grow trees in plantations without vast fossil fuel inputs. Plantation trees are highly susceptable to pestilence outbreaks and blowdowns from storms. Conversion of forest to plantations is responsible for most of the wetlands losses in the southern US," the woodbasket". They also adversely affect groundwater recharge and surface water quality and quantity. The biofuels panic as a "solution" to using fossil fuels will quickly liquidate most of remaining forests to establish new plantations, some with Frankentrees that may devastate the rest from genetic drift. Biofuels are already the leading cause of land theft and deforestation in the Southern Hemisphere as we try to sate "green" energy mandates in the North.

Peak soil is going to drive food insecurity for the foreseeable future. We cannot grow food sustainably using the industrial model and it relies heavily on mineral deposits that are coming to a peak. When the phosphorus runs out in a decade or three, the "green revolution" will be over. Mono-cropping, GMO seeds, punishing seed savers, and genetic drift threaten much of the global food supplies. Using increasing amounts of cropland to grow monocultures for ethanol or bio-diesel and speculators, are driving a global food crisis today. Over a billion people are malnourished. Combine that with aquifer depletion, increasing drought and excessive precip cycles that are becoming the new normal, and it become serious enough where even the US military is concerned about food and global security. The much touted GM foods are creating super bugs, and super weed outbreaks that threaten yet more food supplies. More light reading for those with minds capable of absorbing the info.

This is the new reality according to trends.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/Looking-Back-on-the-Limits-of-Growth.html
US aquifers..
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/05/120528154857.htm
Peak soil
http://www.culturechange.org/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=107&Itemid=1
Food.
https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/03/28-6
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/01/10/the_great_food_crisis_of_2011
Fat SUVs and starving kiddos.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=surging-food-prices
Peak phosphorus.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/04/20/peak_phosphorus
Nitrogen dependent on natural gas fracking.
http://peakoil.com/consumption/nitrogen-independence-crucial-to-sustainability/

When the peaks hit, the poorest will be hit the hardest and fastest, but it is not unreasonable to anticipate food riots in the US as well in the foreseeable future.
 red_fir
Joined: 11/21/2011
Msg: 66
What would a perfect world look like?
Posted: 5/30/2012 10:37:39 AM

So, again I pose the question. Other than fossil fuels, what resources are mankind rapidly depriving themselves of due to over-consumption? I'm dying to know.


Your perspective is limited by your youth.
In the family archives I have photos of my great grandfathers logging operation, they consistently pulled logs out of the forest that were 16 to 19 feet in diameter, a twenty four foot length took 12 span of oxen to move.
In my grandfathers day they harvested logs that were 8 to 10 feet in diameter, two logs twenty four feet in length took two 40 hp case tractors coupled inline to move.
My father is photoed with his new McCullough chain saw with a 42" bar cutting trees 4' foot around.
When I was a child three log loads were normal, three logs loaded a truck to 80,000 pounds.
Currently the average log harvested is less than 18 inches in diameter and special saws that will dynamically curve to follow the contours of the log so they can still get 16 foot lumber have been developed.

Lumber that is marketed as #2 and better currently, would have been burnt as scrap, or hog fuel for the boilers one generation ago.

In the ancestral home the dining table is built of one slab of pine 16'x6'x6", the only place wood can be found of that nature today is the Redwoods in California, and that is a remarkably small preserve.

Fresh water supply is growing short so quickly you can watch its decline by simply reading the newspapers but for a quick and dirty comparison simply Google volume in gpm of any national waterfall over the last 100 years in decade increments.

Any reduction of birthrate in high paying / high education areas is more than offset by the burgeoning growth from India, Africa, and Latin America. Coincidentally high paying /high education areas are becoming more concentrated and fewer overall.

Food prices will start to escalate more rapidly than ever, Bread raised from .40 cents to four dollars in 30 years, wages have raised roughly 20% in the same time frame.
In 1980 Union electrical wages were $22.00 per hour in this locale currently they are $27.00 per hour. The price of a new Dodge truck (or any other auto) has more than tripled in that time frame.

Perhaps you can name a resource that isn't being stretched thinner (beside raw quantities of humanity) but my bet is its simply your limited perspective that gives an illusion of plenty.
 Ubiquitous.
Joined: 11/7/2009
Msg: 67
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History
What would a perfect world look like?
Posted: 5/30/2012 12:53:48 PM
Earthpuppy

Not sure what's with the attitude, but I never claimed otherwise. Of course there are fewer forests in the world today than in history. But this is *not* the fault of consumption, for the most part. Its a problem of sprawl. Of people moving outward.

If you didn't notice, I was specifically addressing resources "like wood, water, metal". As in, raw materials for consumption, not thinks like parks and forests.




As for red...


Any reduction of birthrate in high paying / high education areas is more than offset by the burgeoning growth from India, Africa, and Latin America. Coincidentally high paying /high education areas are becoming more concentrated and fewer overall.


You're dead wrong. Dead. Wrong. Look at what the UN itself shows:
http://www.learner.org/courses/envsci/visual/visual.php?shortname=population_growth_rate

"The world's population growth rate peaked in the late 1960s at just over 2 percent per year..."

"Many people interpret forecasts like this to mean that population growth is out of control. In fact, as noted above, world population growth rates peaked in the late 1960s and have declined sharply in the past four decades"

"fertility rates are falling as many developing countries pass through the demographic transition"



....hopefully older, more impressionable folks like yourself, who watched one scare-tactic video graphing human population explosion and felt like an informed citizen, can sleep at night now because they learned something from a "youth" who is still open to learning new things by, you know, actually doing some research ;)
 Ubiquitous.
Joined: 11/7/2009
Msg: 68
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History
What would a perfect world look like?
Posted: 5/30/2012 1:45:51 PM

So, pray tell, how does one ensure reproducing these traits with genetic certainty? This is some creepy thought process, sounds like Aryan Nation indoctrination.

What are you going on about? Aryan Nation indoctrination???? What???? I said that "inequality" exists in our very genetic structure, humans are not "equal" at birth. Some are born with more favorable genes than others. It shouldn't be a surprise when inequality arises elsewhere.




How is that common sense theory holding up numerically?

Just fine.

http://www.learner.org/courses/envsci/visual/visual.php?shortname=population_growth_rate




Have you observed that world population is declining?

This is the kind of uninformed argument I'm talking about. A casual person will watch one scare-tactic video graphing population growth in recent centuries and see that global population is still increasing.. but a more informed, sensible person would look more thoroughly into the data and see that total population doesn't have to decline for the population growth *rate* to decline, as it *has* been. Population growth rates tend toward stagnation and even going negative as average wealth increases.


http://www.learner.org/courses/envsci/visual/visual.php?shortname=population_growth_rate

According to the UN population studies:
"Many people interpret forecasts like this to mean that population growth is out of control. In fact, as noted above, world population growth rates peaked in the late 1960s and have declined sharply in the past four decades"




ou should instead watch videos of REAL mathmaticians.....there is a video on the side bar of the one you linked, it's called "The most important video you'll ever watch"

I've seen that. All 7 or so videos. I'd respond to it, but I don't think you would be able to follow. I mean... you cite the fact that population is still growing as evidence that the human population is growing out of control and is a serious problem for the planet.... haha
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 69
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What would a perfect world look like?
Posted: 5/30/2012 2:01:34 PM

"stripping the earth of its resources"
With the exception of energy, which resources are we "stripping" exactly? Resources like wood, water, and metals all exist within a renewable cycle and aren't going anywhere. They're simply changing form.

We do the *same* thing with trees. We have tree farms where we grow billions of trees on millions of acres of land. This is where there are more trees in North America today than there were 100 years ago.

Of course there are fewer forests in the world today than in history. But this is *not* the fault of consumption, for the most part. Its a problem of sprawl. Of people moving outward.

If you didn't notice, I was specifically addressing resources "like wood, water, metal". As in, raw materials for consumption, not thinks like parks and forests.

So, again I pose the question. Other than fossil fuels, what resources are mankind rapidly depriving themselves of due to over-consumption? I'm dying to know.


You don't seem to understand that trees come from forests, as well as plantations, and that plantations are being established in places that were once forests. This comes under your heading of "wood". Sprawl is a factor in forest loss but relatively small compared to plantations for wood, paper and biofuels, and clearing for hamburgers, soy, coffee, cocoa, cattle feed, drilling and mining, etc. Most of this is not for subsistence, but for the consuming North that has, and continues to clear it's forests unsustainably. Nearly all deforestation taking place today is done unsustainably and degrades what remains of soil, but also water quality and quantity.

Water is a finite resource being squandered and a crisis is looming in the most populated and consumptive parts of the world already.
http://www.worldwatercouncil.org/index.php?id=25
The "solution" of desalinization is energy intensive and like nuke poop, leaves a ticking time bomb of salt waste that will eventually affect fisheries.

Metals come to us courtesty of fossil fuels. Without the infrastructure to mine, extract, transport, smelt, and make useable, even metal recyling get increasingly difficult as fossil fuels are depleted.
http://www.culturechange.org/cms/content/view/597/1/

Figures from the US Geological Survey indicate that within the US most types of minerals and other nonrenewable resources are well past their peak dates of production [26]. Besides oil, these include bauxite (peaking in 1943), copper (1998), iron ore (1951), magnesium (1966), phosphate rock (1980), potash (1967), rare earth metals (1984), tin (1945), titanium (1964), and zinc (1969). The depletion of these resources continues swiftly in spite of recycling.
 red_fir
Joined: 11/21/2011
Msg: 70
What would a perfect world look like?
Posted: 5/30/2012 8:01:54 PM

.hopefully older, more impressionable folks like yourself, who watched one scare-tactic video graphing human population explosion and felt like an informed citizen, can sleep at night now because they learned something from a "youth" who is still open to learning new things by, you know, actually doing some research ;)


I'll be a great deal more impressed with your "research" if you'll care to address the factual dwindling resources rather than a nonsense think tanks prattling designed to encourage more consumerism.

If you'd like to argue with math watch;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY
and we'll have some common ground to talk about.

The peak growth rate you seem to find so miniscule puts population doubling at every 35 years if it holds steady at that rate.
At your (unrealistically optimistic) best case scenario that puts us at 21 billion near the end of your life,

4% of the earths surface is arable.

None of your reply addresses the fact of reduction of resources already spent, to get back to the state they were in at my grandfathers time the forest would need to stay unmolested from two to three hundred years,

The current estimates by the Ohio Growers Association is to meet demand for the next 40 years more food will need to be produced then the aggregate total of the previous ten thousand years, 70% of that increase will have to be wrung from land already in production.

Within forty years (at your rosy estimates) population will be at roughly 16 billion.
What will you do with those people?
There are currently too many workers for the work available, so many in fact my local municipality is demanding a college education to work at the local landfill for no other reason than to slow the flood of applicants for every job,
Many corporation have set standards that make you unemployable if you are currently unemployed,

To play devils advocate even if you could feed that many, why would you?


"fertility rates are falling as many developing countries pass through the demographic transition"


Let me rephrase this to reflect reality;
"fertility rates are falling in many industrialized countries that have adopted a western culture as they become educated to the current overload of the system"
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 71
What would a perfect world look like?
Posted: 5/31/2012 10:16:53 PM
OK, well it looks like young Ubiquitous here paints a rosy picture of life on the planet and the adults in the room paint a rather dismal one. It is the dismal one I was thinking of when I started this thread.

Again, population is increasing ...here is a chart: http://www.sustainablescale.org/areasofconcern/population/populationandscale/quickfacts.aspx. Note that it is mostly in developing countries.

Natural resources are diminishing and what is still there or engineered is more fragile ...see the links posted.

I'd add that in the USA, we cause something like a quarter (?) of the world's pollution through car emissions, but at any rate there does not seem to be ANY appetite at all these days for energy conservation (except high gas prices) or much for recycling, etc. We buy and use and throw stuff away like there is no tomorrow, not giving it a second thought, total consumption mode.

This appears to put humanity on a collision course and an unsustainable, suicidal path ...too many people stripping the resources and too much pollution of the planet........whatever balance there was over the course of thousands, if not millions of years, is gone, it's all out of whack.

So, again, it seems like the clock of doom is ticking...........what's it going to look like 50-100 years down the road? What are some solutions? Can it be fixed?
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 72
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History
What would a perfect world look like?
Posted: 6/1/2012 12:44:36 AM
Balsamica:



So, again, it seems like the clock of doom is ticking...........what's it going to look like 50-100 years down the road? What are some solutions? Can it be fixed?


It cannot. Humans, and by extension the societies that they organize, learn VERY little in such a fashion. Mostly, we learn by our frailers. But this should not be a cause for great worry. It is unlikely that life on this planet will be extinguished by the minuscule toilings of human beings. Life on this planet has survived far worse than us. It is even VERY unlikely that we will even completely wipe ourselves out, considering the level of technology we have attchived. In reality, we have actually not waisted any natural reasources at all. They all still exist here on this planet. Fissile fuel is the only true concern in this debate (the only thing that can truly be considered as being wasted) and it really isn't much of a concern at all. There are plenty of other viable options for producing high amounts of energy at low energy expenditure (mineing the moon and helium three reactors is one shining example). No, I am quite certain that the only thing that is doom on this planet is the way in which humans currently choose to coexist with their environment, and perhaps several billion human lives over a relitively short period of time, as the earth balances itself back out. Oh and maybe the exstimction of many spices of plants and animals. But over time the earth will regain balance. Just as it has always done before.

Now, it is a different thing if you are trying to spare the human population, as it exist today, from having to experience the consequences of their seemingly inevitable actions, however, I do not believe that this can be done. I am afraid that it is far to late in the game for that now. But, as I said, this should not be a cause for great concern. Once we go down for the enormous failure that we have set ourselves up for (it will be the greatest in the history of man) we will have finally learned what the right and wrong ways of living on this planet are. It will be a lesson not soon forgot. My only goal, at the moment, is trying to be one of the survivors if I am alive when SHTF. I went into turtle mode a few years back, when I realized that things weren't going to change quickly enough to avoid even some of the seemingly easy to avoid disasters that are headed our way in the very near future. And I recommend that everyone reading this do the same.
 Walley7
Joined: 4/6/2012
Msg: 73
What would a perfect world look like?
Posted: 6/1/2012 1:38:23 AM
World seems fine to me, it's the people that are messed up ;).
 lynyrd_hatchet
Joined: 5/29/2012
Msg: 74
What would a perfect world look like?
Posted: 6/1/2012 11:55:35 AM
A world without greed.
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 75
What would a perfect world look like?
Posted: 6/1/2012 1:50:31 PM
thinkinginca,

^^Did you look up the Venus Project?

Yes, I did, got on the website and poked around.

My impression was that it is a futuristic version of hell, actually.
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