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 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 101
Will Capitalism Fail?Page 5 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
No problem grandmaboo, I will make some comments on your post...

First off, the ba*tards at Goldman will never hear me sing their praises, that's for sure. I doubt they were trying to "con their stock holders into believing that GS assets are worth a LOT more", the reason I say that is, a good number of their stockholders represent those who work there! GS was the last HUGE wall street partnership to go public and they STILL reward exceptional employees(the best thieves!) with shares in the company!

No if it were not for GS's stake in the company, they would have been lead banker on the deal. Instead, they kept their mouths shut and allowed Morgan Stanley to be lead, to get the best bang for their invested buck!

As for "ohhhh Ms. X....here, let us "give" you $300K", I think you maybe thinking of times pre2008! Now they want you to have $20,000 in liquid assets, in order to get a $10,000 loan! At least that is what I hear from the business community and those who seek loans! They have reverted to form, and now wish to take the fish out of the barrell before they shoot it! Because they are still licking their wounds from the real estate debacle THEY created.

As for the "Fed", the Federal Reserve, IMO, is one of the worst run entities, under the last 5 presidents! Only 2 men were chairmen in all that time Greenspan and Bernacke. While the composition of the board has changed somewhat, they still replace xerox with xerox of the last board. Meaning they haven't had a new or better idea in 25 years or more.

Then again, most central banks, are prone to thoughts none of us consider prudent. Currently the 'next great thing' seems to involve them starting negative interest rates...a really big consideration in the European countries. I certainly hope ours, is wiser..but hey! They were schucmks before, why not be that again? That Greenspan admitted on national TV that he never understood the way derivatives worked or the equations behind them, should give us all pause in thinking these are the brightest bulbs in the drawer.
 turnitupman
Joined: 1/14/2010
Msg: 102
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/2/2012 7:14:01 PM
Aristotle, I was talking from a purely theoretical perspective. If you want to throw actual results in as well, lets not forget the biggest example on the block - China, to which the quasi-socialist nations of scandinavia also compare very well to in terms of liberty, health and happiness of the population, mostly because of the manner of implementation. My general point was that government by its very nature is socialistic, and the choice is in to what degree we are willing to take the potential for abuse of power.

halftimedad - Absolutely right, more or less, though issues arise when one group pulls more of the load than others without any corresponding benefit. The equation is simple when the cost to reward ratio is balanced in all of the players, but not so much when it isn't, and socialism (government) is mans way of trying to level that unbalanced equation so that the relationship can continue to exist while also allowing more of us to thrive.

thinkinginca - If Greenspan couldn't forsee greed and corruption, he didn't have any business being in the position of power he was in.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 103
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 6:35:24 AM

The ongoing programs to reinflate the housing bubble and prop up the banks should make it clear to everyone who is really running the show, and it certainly isn't the American citizens.

...and ruin the surprise, but that would take all the fun out of it.
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 104
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 8:52:00 AM
I agree, with those who say capitalism will win, in the end
but, the capitalist system has failed, there is a new order,the corporate system, this new system, will fall
tax payers can't keep bailling these mega entities, forever, nor can central banks keep printing money, to loan to countries forever, this current system, has already failled,its just having a long slow death lol
 Sciencetreker
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 105
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 9:01:30 AM
riptide;

I think I'll go to the Canada side of the forum. Act like I know all about a foreign country. Be condescending


Ya, sure

Hint...Cuba, Dominican Republic, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Iraq, Afghsnistan, (just a few of the 21 nations the USA has invaded since ww2.) Would you like 'freedom fries' while your read the list?

There is something fall-down funny in the irony when an American finds others who comment oin their country as 'condencending.'
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 106
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 9:20:28 AM
""Socialism is an attempt - a poorly designed attempt - to harness and restrict that force to the advantage of everyone. It's a noble goal, but it won't ever work because it goes against human behavior and psychology, which in the realm of social science are kind of like the laws of physics are in the physical world. ""

Bullshit.

The tribal societies that have survived for thousands upon thousands of years and lived in sustainable, non-suicidal ways with productive divisions of labor lasted as long as they have mainly on socialistic principles, not capitalistic.

Capitalism goes with the industrial age, but for all the good it has brought, it is driving us toward extinction within the next hundred or so years. It's dinosaur stuff, dinosaur thinking and cannot last. We're not going to survive if all we care about is the next quarter's profits..........we need to care about the next 50, 100, 200 years and capitalistic is not going to do it., not by a long shot.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 107
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 10:17:02 AM
I don't disagree with you about communism. But communists would make the same arguments you make about capitalism in reverse. They would argue that communism hasn't ever been implemented. Just like you argue that capitalism isn't in existence because of "crony capitalism" or other such Randisms, they would argue that Stalinism or Maoism is a corruption of communism.

As far as I'm concerned, power gets abused in any system. In strict laissez faire capitalism it's the bosses and corporate interests that abuse it. In totalitarian governments, it's government agents. The best we can hope for is a government strong enough to rein in the worst of corporate excesses, and a government that has to exercise power openly and transparently. Those who abuse power will always seek to do it in secret. The internet paradoxically is actually a threat to liberal democracies since it is a serious threat to the business model of newspapers. The Washington Post couldn't afford to pursue the Watergate story today.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 108
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 10:37:56 AM
Couple of things here:

@146 "We're not going to survive if all we care about is the next quarter's profits."

THIS is probably one of the best statements I have read in a while on here! It is at the core of the capitalist issue. The very basic principal of all businesses is sustainability. It is the job of those in charge to have a plan for the next 2, 5, and 10 years. Henry Ford did not pay his workers a good wage, because he was generous, he did so that they might buy the product they were manufacturing.

That kind of thinking, the thought that generations of Ford's or you pick a sustainable business name, would run the business. They weren't thinking about impressing some wall street analyst, about the next quarter or year. That is the tail wagging the dog thinking. Also the thought now is let me get mine first, then when my future is assured, I'll see if I can help the company. BUT there is never enough! If they get a 36' boat, then they want a 52 footer, then a 100 footer, then....greed knows no limits.

"communists only murdered about 100 million people"

Did communism do that? Or did some crazy men like Stalin do that? I'm sorry, if you are a policeman, or a soldier in the army of a crazy person, you don't say no, or you find yourself on the train to Siberia or some gulog. That people in power become only interested in keeping and maintaining that power, has little to do with the underlying prinicipals that the government was founded on, it has to do with the flaw in human thinking.

"Capitalism would be working fine if not for the money junkie pricks on Wall St."

Oh if only that were true. If only the greed were confined to that single group. The morphed standards of business practices and lack of ethics, not only on wall street, but in the corporate board rooms as well. The bean counter in the corporate business office did not work on wall street, he worked for GM, and said "hey if we outsource the building of the cars to X, we save $$$$$ on the labor part of it"

While I hate religious references, the serpent may have resided on wall street, but it was the CEO who bit the apple!
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 109
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 11:18:12 AM
Thinking beyond our generation is the answer. It is what will get people off their ass and open their eyes. When they see their grandchildren going without, when they have to lend their kids their savings, when the whole family has to move back home because no matter how hard they try, they can't make a go of it, then the people will really believe that it's not their "lazy son-in-law's" fault, that it ISN'T the same as in their day when " a little hard work" could fix the situation.
Just like Viet Nam, when their kids came home in boxes, then it was real. The mothers of the soldiers had enough and stood up to their husbands, stood up to the politician's and challenged their position of governing with their actions and vote. Only then did they agree to bring the boys home.
Relying on corrupt governments to make the changes you want to see is futile and ridiculous. We have to do it for ourselves. We have to decide that we CAN do it first, then make a list of all that is important to us, then we have to act on these things AND NOT BE SWAYED BY THEIR B.S. We have to stop playing their game.
We can do this, no matter how many naysayers are out there.
A whole new model of co operation is needed.
We can't do anything under the corrupt umbrella of this so called capitalism.
We can do it under fare trade, an hour for an hour work time and sharing. We cannot use their "paper"currency.

It's not only the "elites" that are greedy, it's the ones that want to be elites fault as well and the "comfortable" peoples. I am not saying we have to move down so much as to give a hand up to others.
They have to learn (the hard way?) that it doesn't work for them anymore or for their kids or for their kids kids. Maybe they need to hit bottom too before they take a stand. I hope not. The OWS people have hit bottom, that's why they are out there. We shouldn't mock these people, they aren't losers. Sure there are some that join with them that are mentally ill, same as everywhere, but that's not their fault either, and the ones that join because they are lonely, same thing, not their fault.

Greed is going to screw everyone soon. It's now made the middle class shake in their boots. They are getting out to protest now as well. Those who "have it made" are allowed for NOW to have it made, so they will preach that crooked ways are fine. They are being used as peons. Soon they won't need their voice and they too will be 'disposable".

When their kids move back, or their pension is a pittance, or they have to make a choice to live or die because it's too expensive to live, maybe then they'll see that the american dream is carrot out of reach.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 110
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 11:25:56 AM
That's all it is. It's a method of destroying a given government so that an elite can come in and rule-
come meet the new boss same as the old boss.
Capitalism would be working fine if not for the money junkie pricks on Wall


I am really starting to link these together... Not as money junkie pricks.. they will always exist. It is the purposeful destruction of the government through the practices of wall st. Those that go along with it are just being used.

half

Those who abuse power will always seek to do it in secret.

http://www.bilderbergmeetings.org/index.php


It was felt that regular, off-the-record discussions would help create a better understanding of the complex forces and major trends affecting Western nations in the difficult post-war period



The internet paradoxically is actually a threat to liberal democracies since it is a serious threat to the business model of newspapers
This is true. There is so much information and it is easy to find information supporting any side of a topic and junk information, obscure, etc. All the information is out there in some way but is obscured by the volume and noise. I think it would be a great idea for newspapers and news agencies to bring back journalists. Right now they do 'investigative reporting' for entertainment and ratings. "Getting to the truth even if it hurts” would be a great concept and I think would sell rather successfully to the population. Basically all they have to do is what everyone thinks they are supposed to be doing anyway...
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 111
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Posted: 6/3/2012 11:36:36 AM
The journalists are now admitting they are watching what they write because they can be classified as terrorists if they have "relations" i.e. "doing their job investigating" the enemy. They know that their jobs are on the line and possibly their lives. They know that these people don't want the truth out there. Brave ones are opposing bills that give that power.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 112
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 11:41:13 AM

This is true. There is so much information and it is easy to find information supporting any side of a topic and junk information, obscure, etc. All the information is out there in some way but is obscured by the volume and noise. I think it would be a great idea for newspapers and news agencies to bring back journalists. Right now they do 'investigative reporting' for entertainment and ratings. "Getting to the truth even if it hurts” would be a great concept and I think would sell rather successfully to the population. Basically all they have to do is what everyone thinks they are supposed to be doing anyway...

Well you have Ronald Regan and his once media consultant and now Fox News chief Roger Ailes to thank for the reason why you no longer have real news.
 GrandmaBooBoo
Joined: 12/30/2006
Msg: 113
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Posted: 6/3/2012 11:57:37 AM
As for "ohhhh Ms. X....here, let us "give" you $300K", I think you maybe thinking of times pre2008! Now they want you to have $20,000 in liquid assets, in order to get a $10,000 loan! At least that is what I hear from the business community and those who seek loans! They have reverted to form, and now wish to take the fish out of the barrell before they shoot it! Because they are still licking their wounds from the real estate debacle THEY created.
Well, yeah, I agree that that is supposed to be the case with the Big Banks, but I didn't experience any negativity at all when I went to a small local bank.

When I signed the contract to build my home (2010) I knew that there were a limited number of institutions who would make construction loans, and unfortunately the bank that I've dealt with for the last 15 years was one which does NOT make construction loans. The builder referred me to several banks which they said they had worked with, and....to my dismay, EVERY single one of them was going to try to FORCE me into an FHA loan. Even though I had over 30% downpayment, more than adequate "cash reserves", and the monthly payment was going to be only 18% of my monthly income, my problem was a "low credit score". In fact.....I only had 2 numbers, not the usual 3. Once reporting agency had never heard of me. The "banks" said they required a minimum of 720 as the middle number and since I had only two..the used the lower one, 713. The "originator" even did what they called a "non-traditional" credit report...calling utility companies, insurance agent etc, and then it was up to 742...LOL! but the underwriter was still being a jerk. So, after some research and talking to other people, they advised me to get away from dealing with Wall Street traded banks and go to a smaller local bank or credit union. I'd had some experience with a credit union previously and found them to be rather incompetent, so I was determined to make that my last resort. A small local bank, in business for over 140 years, not publically traded on Wall Street....my loan went through in less than 10 days....CONVENTIONAL FIXED RATE, low interest, no PMI, flat $1000 closing costs. It was really a piece of cake after I stopped dealing with a "Big Bank".

I did learn a valuable lesson about "credit ratings" though. I had very mistakenly believed that paying cash for everything was a "good idea". I had no idea that I was paying more for my home owners insurance and car insurance because I paid for everything in cash. It was costing me over $400 a year in extra premimums. I guess that these days, you can't even get a job unless you have excellent credit ratings. Seems really bassackwards to me...that those of us who don't want to be in debt have to pay more for the privledge.

But, you are certainly RIGHT......"THEY" did create it! I dealt with this "Big Bank" for 5 months!!!!! They drew up papers no less than 7 or 8 times....and EACH time I had to reject them. They kept including the value of the land INTO the mortgage....and I ALREADY OWNED the land...I had the deed, and they had a copy of the deed. They were insisting on lending me $70K MORE than I had asked for....or needed or wanted....AND they kept sending the....what's it called?...the paper with all the costs itemized...they kept insisting that I COULD ONLY put 3% down. I told them REPEATEDLY that I was putting down a MINIMUM of 30% in cash, or I wasn't going to accept the loan. It was totally craziness! I'd purchased existing homes before, but never built one so it was definitely a learning experience.

Ohhhhh YEAH!!! I've read about those "negative interest rates", now tell me that THOSE are exactly what I was talking about when I said the Fed is in a conspiracy with Wall Street!!!! I guess....Sweden? Finland? one of those Northern European countries is already doing the "negative interest rate"...the call it a "storage fee". So the lady was right when she said we'd all be better off just to stuff our savings in our mattresses!

Maybe we should all get together and open one of those PayDay Loan places and undercut the loan sharks there! LOL! How long do you think we could keep our legs?
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 114
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 12:06:27 PM
"We have to stop playing their game."

While I agree with most of your post, I disagree with this one statement. The problem as I see it, is NO ONE is playing thier game, no one is engaging in their OTHER JOB, the business of democracy.

I think based solely on the original intent of the (gawd how I hate to say this, I know someone will now lecture us on his agenda) constitution, this country has the principals, under which we can live and prosper.

The problem is we have become a nation of lazy slobs. If I said this once, I have said it a hundred times, both here in the forums, and IRL to as many as would listen. We go to work, those of us with jobs at least. Then come home and let the cool rays of the TV veg out our minds, never giving a thought to anything but Survivor or American Idol. We have become a nation of the uninvolved. When that happens, you give power to those who would abuse it.

It leads to where we find ourselves today, with elections bought and paid for by corporate interests, that are NOT people. Who through lobbyists advance an agenda that disenfranchises our citizens, and gives rise to more corporate power.

So my belief is get off your collective azzes, get involved in local politics, I don't care which party your beliefs lie in. If you have a shred of intelligence, you will see proceeding down the same road, will only lead to further erosion of the rights of the people, to the benefit of the greedy, the corporate and the lobbyists, politicians.

So yes, I advocate playing their game, if enough of us do that, we will outnumber them and they cannot stick to business as usual.
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 115
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 12:52:57 PM
I advocate playing "our game". A true democracy and yes the Charter of Rights and the Constitution will be by definition, part of it. I'm holding back on 100% avocation because they aren't written to include all humans that inhabit the earth.

Get involved people, get off your butts, and yes to starting at the local level. They could "outnumber" us in the way that some on our side could be more of a hindrance than a help. We can't count on you if you are on Televalium!
 balrog67
Joined: 4/1/2012
Msg: 116
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 1:05:29 PM
Capitalism failed long ago. It's new secret name is Crass Opportunism. When you can sit on a phone and sell phucked-up derivatives to a 68 year old guy who is terrified of the prospect of eating dog food for the rest of his life - and make $500 grand a year doing it - and then watch your employer get a billion dollar bailout when the OBVIOUS happens..... that's not Capitalism.
 GrandmaBooBoo
Joined: 12/30/2006
Msg: 117
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 1:15:44 PM
I agree with you! ^^^^ So, HOW do we do that? I set out on a "campaigne" 2 years ago to...at LEAST...stop supporting Wall Street....to the extent that I can. I quit dealing with the publically traded banks. I fired TruGreen and hired a small local company for my lawn services. I use the Amish hardware and lumberstores instead of Lowes. I buy what I can from the Amish bulk store, but there are still some things that I have to get from either WalMart or Krogers.

I've THOUGH about....saving my receipts for what I buy at these "non Wall Street" companies...and sending them to....someone, I don't know who. BUT...do you REALLY think that it would make a difference? People argue, that all I'm doing is taking jobs away from people who work at WalMart, Lowes, Krogers by refusing to shop there. They don't see that I'm supporting SMALL LOCAL BUSINESSES, and that those places provide jobs as well.

I believe in a truly "capitalist" economy, but I don't believe that that's what we have anymore in the U.S. I also enjoy living in a "society" that is supposed to work together for the safety, security and prosperity of it's citizens. I THOUGHT....that we lived in a "social democracy" where PEOPLE mattered....and it was PEOPLE...working together....who made our society "work". It's not that way anymore. Everyone thinks they're more important than the next guy, and the truly SCARY part of all this IS...that it's NOT even most of the time "rich" people doing it! Granted...I don't really know a lot of "rich" folks...but I know quite a few in the middle......say $100K a year I seriously don't here them complaining about those who make $200K a year....NEARLY as often as I here someone who earns $15K a year....badmouthing someone else who earns $30K a year. We rarely think of "poor people" as being "greedy", but....honestly...what else would YOU call it? Maybe I'm not looking at an efficient cross sampling of people...but that's what I see...personally. I think something like 70% of American's actually BELIEVE that a banker with a 4 yr. degree should earn $5-30MILLION a year....and are IRATE if they hear about a doctor (with 12 yrs of higher education) earns $300K. Isn't that kinda messed up???
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 118
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 1:39:27 PM
Alas boo, while you and I may avoid Walmart, you for your reasons, me for mine their business model causes more pain than it adds value. The majority won't give up their bargains, nor put in the extra effort or limited options a smaller place offers.

Again, I want to change the country slowly. This class warfare thing, is an invention to sway votes. Most people I know, may envy the successful, but don't really care when someone succeeds in bettering themselves. The true class war, is those who dupicitously advance, who do more harm than good, when they set about running a company they did bupkis to start with.

Look at some of the CEO's who join a company, YEARS after it's founding, have NO investment in that company, they are merely hired as a "hired gun", to jack up the results. They have the tunnel vision of the next quarter or next year at most. They have a contract that includes stock options, bonuses, perks and when they are not doing the right job, a golden parachute for their exit if the company is taken over, or they get a severence package of millions for doing a bad job.

Let's take a better example, United Healthcare Inc., the CEO makes 60 million a year, he did not start the company, he may oversee the company, but he doesn't administrate the policies, or count the money. He makes on average 500 times more than the average employee. Now he is worth more than someone without the responsibility he has, but THAT MUCH MORE? If his salary were cut in half, he would still make 250 times the average employee, it would still be a fortune. But then you could reduce the amount they charge you by that share of 30 million!

Now that is far too simplistic I know, but it is an example. Why are CEO's time so valuable? I mean why do they need corporate jets? There are commercial flights, that fly the route, just as fast. It is just pandering to a privileged few who view themselves as soo special that they should not have to wait in lines, or sit next to some person not in their class.

But I digress, it all starts with who we elect. Start at the local level, start by ridding ourselves of apointed jobs that pay hundreds of thousands to people who are incompetent to do their jobs. Like the city manager in California, who was making 700,000 a year from a small town. THEN move onto state politics and clean that up the same way, by being involved. By that time, you will have them starting to quake in their boots in DC. Because they then know THEIR NEXT!!!!!!!
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 119
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 2:08:46 PM
^^^^Haha, every once in a while you sound rational and make sense.

especially

This class warfare thing, is an invention to sway votes. Most people I know, may envy the successful, but don't really care when someone succeeds in bettering themselves


I hope you meant both sides of the fence on that one.
 Blalah
Joined: 3/25/2012
Msg: 120
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 3:12:37 PM
^^^
I caught that too. Sure don't want to be accused of posting a partial quote but since you already showed it in whole I will.



Most people I know, may envy the successful

Yea we already knew that.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 121
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 4:41:36 PM
"I hope you meant both sides of the fence on that one."

Hahahahaha!!! See there you have it folks, I offer a thought, and what do we get, another conservative mypoic view, replete with trying to erect a fence where none exists!

So what's next another round of "income redistribution" from the republicants?

You guys are so predictable!
 GrandmaBooBoo
Joined: 12/30/2006
Msg: 122
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 5:33:40 PM

But I digress, it all starts with who we elect. Start at the local level, start by ridding ourselves of apointed jobs that pay hundreds of thousands to people who are incompetent to do their jobs. Like the city manager in California, who was making 700,000 a year from a small town. THEN move onto state politics and clean that up the same way, by being involved. By that time, you will have them starting to quake in their boots in DC. Because they then know THEIR NEXT!!!!!!!
Yeah, well...the biggest problem with THAT plan IS....that the last figures I heard (which I admit were some time ago) was that while 95% of the public sector votes....something like on 40% of the private sector can be bothered to show up at the poles...and 1/2 the time, we should be glad that they DON'T vote...because they're morons!

LOL! I've often thought that I'd LOVE to have one of those jobs that I could screw up so badly they'd pay me $10MILLION...just to QUIT. I'm just not that incompetent.

Once upon a time, in a land far away...I worked in the Regional Accounting Offices for General Motors. I was put in charge of paying the steel invoices for 5 plants, from somewhere between 14-20 different suppliers. First, I really wondered about this so called "paperless system" when they (steel companies) would bill only 2 or 3 coils of steel on each invoice. I was used to working in the telephony industry..paying for phone poles, cable, handsets, etc and each invoice had anywhere fro 50-200 items listed. So, I get out my purchase order and see that the steel companies (ALL of them) are overcharging for the steel. You know...you have an agreed on price per ton and that's what you PAY...right? WRONG! I asked someone, "ok...so where do we keep the "Debit Memos?" "The WHAT???" "The debit memos...you know....where I explain to them why I'm not paying the price they have listed as what's owed". "Ohhh, NO, we don't write debit memos, we just put the $49.99 per invoice (about 5,000 of them a month) into the TSTA". "The WHAT?", I said? "You know, the Too Small To Adjust account!" WOW!!! Apparently, they felt that any invoice which was under $50 overbilled...was too small to spend 5 minutes writing a debit memo for! LOL!!! So, I went to the Comptrolled with the proposal....that I would QUIT, and, start my own business....writing their debit memos for them for the mere cost of 5% of everything I "saved" them. Since they gave away about $250,000 per month on the premise that the cost was too small to be bothered with, and since the 5% I was going to charge would have provided ME with about $12,500 a month income....I hardly considered it a trivial matter! LOL!
NO DICE...they preferred the way they'd always done business.....and probably STILL DO! LOL! That's just one of my tales from "Incompetence City". Some of the worst...was trying to get ANY actual work done in between the idiot meetings where nobody knew what was going on...and the Baby Showers, Bridal Showers, House Warming Parties, Retirement Parties, Anniversary Parties, Birthday Parties....OMG!!!! These people ate so much damned cake, I don't know how they could fit through the doors!

So, Yeah.....I guess I can see where some of these people are really WORTH (I'm kidding) $150K per year....because...afterall....a nurse who treats them in ER when they go into a diabetic coma...for $60 K a year, wouldn't have a job if they didn't have that job....eating cake! LOL! Another good one....I was told to call for EDS to come of "format" my spreadsheet columns....because "THEY" (EDS) were the only ones who know how to do it! LOL! I said...."you mean like...THIS!"....as I carried the formatting down another 1000 lines (Lotus 123 era) I thought the guy was going to have a coronary on the spot!!! LOL! "HOW do YOU know how to do that???" LOL! "I'm a WITCH....and it's MAGIC!". OMG!!! The freaking LONGEST 39 months of my life! I was SOOOO glad to get back on the plant floor.....running water, air and hydraulic lines and chasing down leaks even unplugging toilets! The Infamous "Job Bank"....where we hourly grunts were banished to when we were "laid off". My formen were about fit to be tied, because almost every week Accounting was calling him to send me to the office to fix some stupid thing or another for them.

So, the public sector pay....Does anyone think that IF....the pay of government workers, including congressmen were CAPPED at say....no more than 50% higher than the average salary of their constituents...that they just might be motivated to attract more jobs, better paying jobs...into our respective communities? Average family income in the U.S. is what....$46K....so limit congressional salaries to $69K. LOL! I'd say that could be an incentive to get some jobs going.
 Blalah
Joined: 3/25/2012
Msg: 123
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 5:42:00 PM
You guys are so predictable!

You are correct. What of it?
That's my biggest annoyance of the human race. People making blanket assumptions of others from their monetary worth. And most often for no reason whatsoever but for the perpetuation of hate coming from the left. And THAT for no other reason than to get votes and retain power. Predictable ? - very much so every single time.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 124
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History
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 5:47:47 PM
So, the public sector pay....Does anyone think that IF....the pay of government workers, including congressmen were CAPPED at say....no more than 50% higher than the average salary of their constituents...that they just might be motivated to attract more jobs, better paying jobs...into our respective communities? Average family income in the U.S. is what....$46K....so limit congressional salaries to $69K. LOL! I'd say that could be an incentive to get some jobs going.


Hahahahahaha I really almost agree with you. YOu sounded soooo republican there.

What I do have an issue with is congressional salaries. I want people that are highly motivated to be in that position. It is difficult to figure out and impossible to see but the simple truth is that not everyone should be doing that job. It is something for motivated, intelligent, and qualified people. I do believe in paying people and paying them well. My congressional salary is not based on punishment but on success and a willingness to call it success as well as encouragement for successful people to strive for, but not keep forever.

So, my concept would be
1 million dollars per year salary. No ability to trade stocks. All existing stocks and bank accounts should be forced through a federally controlled banks where all transactions are monitored.

1 million per year is enough to be motivated and want to do a good job. It is also enough that backroom corporate deals will not be necessary to feed their own personal greed. You must deal with human selfishness and successful people do have a tendency towards selfishness. It is natural.

A state elected federal official should perform the duties their state elected them for. That means their personal political leanings are secondary. A democratic official of California should vote to reduce environmental restrictions on business because that is what the majority of the state wants. A republican official from any state should vote for supporting issues such as abortion for their state if that is the general desire of the majority of their state. They should lead their state in their ideals and not rule them.

But that's just my fantasy world.
 Sciencetreker
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 125
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History
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 6:28:06 PM
The ins and outs of U.S. domestic politics, congressional salaries, corporate salaries, etc. are largely irrelevent to the future of capitalism. Capitalism is taking shape by what happens on a back street of Shanghai or Bangsalore and how that's tied in to Sao Paulo, Brazil or Oslo, Norway. The world is long past looking to Wall Street or Washington for direction just as it once stopped looking to London or Berlin. Borders are less and less relevant every passing year.
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