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 CoolBreezez
Joined: 8/20/2006
Msg: 126
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Will Capitalism Fail?Page 6 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
LOL @ some of Grandma's stories. I worked on contract as a part of GM-Generous Motors- here in Canada. I have no doubts as to some of those stories. The place was ran by people who went to General Motors Institute (GMI), a quasi university where these kids were taught how to be good GM employees, not rock the boat and office politics mattered most. For this , they had a gold spoon stuck in their mouths, could do no wrong and they were all destine for the top. It was basically incestuous and reinforced bad habits.
Now the computer services division, EDS, AKA the End of Dependable Service, made tons of money for by soaking all of the vehicle divisions for computer services and providing little. Once they went independent, they crashed and burned.

This seems to be a problem with all large corporations. The grow fat and unwieldy, employees lose sight of the bottom line or how money is made. Then, if they get into trouble, they cut the folks on the front lines where the core services are, and cut the innovation that made them good. Often they cut to the bone and keep the fat. The Director of Pens, Pencils, Office parties and Stationary stays and the engineers and floor workers have to go.

Is this truly capitalism? "Too big to fail" are that because of the fall out they cause when they go, not because they are unsinkable. Its a Titanic business model. Also- I think the government suffers from the same problem.

The government folks is too interested in preserving their nests, and setting themselves up in corporate palaces after they are done. Me -even as a bit of a lefty- no longer sees big government as any salvation anymore. Both aspects of capitalism and fair government have been subverted, and a large revolution is needed.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 127
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 6:57:22 PM
"are largely irrelevant to the future of capitalism"

Nahh, don't think so! America was long the bastion of free trade, although for over a century, we exported more than we imported. We were the ones duking it out with foreign governments, to lower their barriers, so we could dump our goods on their shores.

Their answer was government subsidies for their industries, so they could run at a loss, and still remain in business. When that became a major drag on their economies, they looked to us for foreign aid.

Well, sorry pal, that ship has sailed. After the bailout of the banks, the cost of 2 wars, and the amount of debt we have stacked up, endorsing more corporate welfare here, would be tantamount to touching the third rail for any politician who proposed it.

So what have we got left? Simple asnwer would be a return to draconian tariffs on imported goods! Now all of you may say, you have got to be shittin me, but I'm not. With unemployment where it is, do you really believe common guy is gonna sit by while you ship those other manufacturing jobs overseas? At some point, you republicants are going to reach the high water mark of peoples ability to just eat shit and let coporations have all the gravy without a drop left for anyone else.

We may not be there yet, but we are damn close. When it happens the old Potomic two-step will roll out the "tariff" word to get reelected. Mark my words...

edit to add: "preserving their nests"

Is an apt description! You do realize that when someone takes a job, many want a BIGGER job! Why would you think it different in government? A guy with a small department of 10 people, gets paid X, to get more, he petitions to broaden his department and expand it to 25 people, then he is paid X+Y. So back to the drawing board and he petitions again, this time he wants 100 people, so he can make X+Y+Z.

It is the way they build a job, no one does it with less, or would by their own hand...end their job, now would they?
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 128
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 7:16:20 PM
It is the way they build a job, no one does it with less, or would by their own hand...end their job, now would they?


Oh come on now... that’s not the liberal way. You capitalist whore! :) haha Couldn't help it.
You could just call yourself republican and get it over with. Just ignore the religion part (because it is not relevant) and the greed being exploited by Washington through the banks. Hmmm did I phrase that properly? Break up Google, Monsanto, Goldman Sachs, Citibank, and Bank of America and it will be all good for awhile right.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 129
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 7:39:58 PM
"that's not the liberal way"

Who said so? Are you or some of the pinheads on here the arbiter of what constitutes a liberal? And yes I am a "capitalist whore"..but an honest one. The government sets the rules, I play by them, I don't hire people to go there and rig the game for me. What both sides fail to realize is, there will always be a game(investing), they may change the taxes, change the rules we play by, but there will always be a game. So since I am wayyyyyyy better at it than most, it is legal, I pay my taxes, I am free to play the game.

"Just ignore the religion part"

Yeah that ain't gonna happen, nor the republican thing either. The religious will one day lead you all off the cliff, I will laugh and you will ponder your fate!

"Break up Google, Monsanto, Goldman Sachs, Citibank, and Bank of America"

Why break up Google? They have done nothing wrong I know of. Monsanto needs to clean up their shit, stop dumping toxic things, stop altering hormones before we all die, stop making shit out of things that will kill us. Just don't bail out Citibank, Bank of America, they will put themselves out of business, their management is inept, slow to respond to problems, make piss poor business decisions, then try and rip off the retail customer to pay for it. If enough customers get tired of getting kicked in the groin and leave...they will put themselves out of business.

As for Goldman Sucks, burn that MFer to the ground, then take the top 100 people running it and lynch them at 40 mile intervals on route 95, between NYC and Washington so all can see what will happen to people like them in the future, should slime like them try and ruin the country, AGAIN!!

Sound liberal enough for ya?
 CoolBreezez
Joined: 8/20/2006
Msg: 130
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 7:48:02 PM
Looking at the last three posts- so why does everything have to been either or neither nor when to comes to left versus right?
I think representing the left and right policies as their extreme forms is fun for banter, but how many of us truly live there? I think the majority of people realize you need strong economics, good government policies, rule by science and what works- not idealisms that are pie in the sky utopias that do not play out when they put on the ground. Extreme forms of capitalism or socialism are not good for society as a whole. Also every solution is not perfect but usually a compromise or really an optimisation between the two poles.

I think if politics worked towards centralist goals, where everyone gets some piece of the deal, we're all better off. Reasonable profits are made, reasonable salaries etc. And they are spread around.

One of the problems you have in America is that 70%percent of your market was the consumer up until 2008. Since wages were stagnant throughout the 2000's, many peoples continued their consumption by buying houses with loaded mortgages, watching the prices balloon up then taking out loans/second mortgages against the new value of the houses. When this fell apart, due to bad practices, the American consumer had no money left and consumption fell off of a cliff- consumption fell below 60%. The economy went in the tank. This was carried out by business and government alike- aiding and abedding each other. And the government going into debt the whole time. Some had to give and it did. Now, there's lots of digging to be done to get yourselves out of it. I think you need everyone rowing in the same direction instead of fighting about abortion, fluoridation, religion and other stuff that governments shouldn't even be arguing about but spend too much time doing.
 BalderDog2
Joined: 1/6/2011
Msg: 131
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 7:54:48 PM

then take the top 100 people running and lynch them at 40 mile intervals on route 95, between NYC and Washington so all can see what will happen to people like them...


"Listen," said Blaine, "I know that these birds can talk to each other. Let's give this bird something to say to the others." Blaine started cutting one leg off. Strong men turned away. "What the hell's the matter with you guys?" I screamed at them. "We're tired of pigeon shit in our hair and eyes! We're fixing this bird so when we throw him back on the roof, he's gonna tell those other birds, 'those are some mean m***erf**kers down there! Don't get near them!' That pigeon is going to tell those other pigeons to stop sh*tting on us!" - Charles Bukowski, Scenes From The Big Time.
 SweetLilGTP
Joined: 10/22/2010
Msg: 132
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 8:09:53 PM

This has turned into a great thread. Why?
Because for ONCE, thoughtful people have let their guards down enough to acknowledge
that our problems are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond the right/left paradigm


I'm really enjoying reading it also.

:)
 lynyrd_hatchet
Joined: 5/29/2012
Msg: 133
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 8:55:29 PM
yes it will fail, you are starting to see the 99% rebel against the elite, they are taking advantage of us, the elite cannot figure out that its the 99% that buys the products and services they sell and if they dont stop with the greed there will be hardly anyone to buy there stuff.

In my province the premier did the right thing by raising the taxes on the rich here, its a good start.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 134
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 9:12:15 PM
@173...see you are trying to reason with the unreasonable. While I agree with 95% of what you say, and would like to see a meeting of the minds in the middle.

The conservative/republican side of the debate went ahead and married them selves to both Grover Norquist and his "No taxes" appraoch, and to offset the number of democrats who reside here, married the religious extremists, who want an end to abortion, birth control and probably the extermination of any gays in my country.

While all you say has a common sense approach, they have GAWD on their side, so how do you reason with that?

To my pal with the birds, pigeons..I'm sure you are trying to make a point...the problem for me is venting on GS, is like praying is for you folks...it just feeels soooo good!

BTW, if you want an exercise in your futility, look up on google(see I like some companies) the various Goldman alumni, and how they have screwed up the country...no really look it up..you will find why I am so pissed at their mindset.
 GrandmaBooBoo
Joined: 12/30/2006
Msg: 135
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Posted: 6/3/2012 10:00:11 PM

Hahahahahaha I really almost agree with you. YOu sounded soooo republican there.
LOL! Well, PLEASE don't hold that against me! I voted Republican for 42 years...but ya know, ya live...and grow...and Hallelluah, I thought I was about to see the light...UNTIL...I read recently somewhere...that 58% of Wall Street is for Obama!!! LOL!!! So much for the theory that he's anti-business I guess....so, I'm still trying to talk myself into this whole....socialism ain't all bad thing, but I'm still thinking....where the hell are the Bolshviks when you really need 'em???

BUT, you know....you're talking about how we need to pay big wages as an incentive to get motivated and caring people in Washington, and I have 3 problems with that. 1)...WHY hasn't it even begun to start working that way...YET? And what makes you think that it's going to start now, after all these years?
2) You're using the "X Theory of Management" which works poorly with the undereducated to begin with, and turns into a real disaster when you start dealing with those of higher intelligence and ability.
3) LOL! You weren't paying attention when Deathspiral so astutely pointed out that it's NOT only GM which hires idiots to manage a company because they hold the firm belief that all degrees are created equal, and the more the better, regardless of what these people actually learned, hence....we have mega corporations in the hands of people with "degrees" in basketweaving, bowling, chug and puke technology, and naked jello wrestling.

See here....He knows what it's all about:
Often they cut to the bone and keep the fat. The Director of Pens, Pencils, Office parties and Stationary stays and the engineers and floor workers have to go.
EXACTLY! Now, I hope you'll all pardon my arrogance...those of you who know me know that I'm a bit of a "recovering class clown"...so bear with me! I always said.....If *I* were running GM (back in the 70s and 80s) that I would FIRE 60% of white shirts, 20% of blue collar workers....and INCREASE PRODUCTIVITY by 200% LOL! Now, fortunately for everyone...I never got the chance to prove my theory, but MORE TO THE POINT....it's NOT just the American Auto industry that's bloated and incompetent.....it's ALL businesses...all over the country!

I have a good friend who's a Systems Architect...worked for Perot Systems until they were bought out by Dell about 2 years ago...and the SAME kinda stuff goes on there. People who hold positions through cronyism, who are totally unqualified for the jobs they hold, or somewhat qualified, but lazy as all get out...and everything always gets dumped onto the 60%-70% of employees who actually DO work...and who know what they're doing.

Once (the Union hated my Republican A$$ by the way) I came up with the idea...that GM should just send one guy home and mail him a paycheck so the other 26 of us could actually DO our jobs. EVERY DAY...we would wait, andt wait on this lazy slow arse twit. ..so ONE person can keep 26 other good employees from doing their best work. I know too many people in too many different industries who relate EXACTLY the same kinds of incompetence in their workplaces to think that's it's anything but....today's reality. I don't care whether you're producing automobiles or bad mortgages....something HAS to be going out the back door folks. But beyond quantity.....is QUALITY. The sub-prime mortgages in the 2000's is no different than the junk GM was putting out in the 70s and 80s. You might be living high on the hog for a while...until people wake up...but WHEN they wake up....you are NEVER going to regain the market share you lost...because people DO hold grudges!!! LOL! just like me....I'm so ticked off at Bush and Paulson and all the crony capitalism and corporate welfare...that I don't care anymore. They can fly the red cicle flag of China over the White House for all I care, and I'll NOT ever vote for another Republican again. No siree, you turkeys sold me one pig in a poke and you'll not sell me another.

The man is right.....we NEED a "revolution" and if "socialism" is the catalyst that we need to bring that revolution about....then bring it on! Sheeessshhh, I lived through 8 years of Ronnie Reagan's 60% taxes (50% federal, another 10% for SS, state and local)...a little bit of socialism don't scare me any.
 BalderDog2
Joined: 1/6/2011
Msg: 136
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 10:08:23 PM

To my pal with the birds, pigeons..I'm sure you are trying to make a point.


I don't often get to quote Bukowski--I thought it fit. Anyway, the point is, you don't have to make an example of 100. You just need to go after one and punished them hard. Let the others know they could be next.
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 137
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/3/2012 10:50:49 PM
Even a monopoly game has rules. Our system today is on a global basis. The capitalist system will simply go to where expenses are cheapest as far as wages and labor, environmental laws etc.are concerned.

Capitalism will simply move it's production to where these conditions exist to maximize the bottom line.IMHO what is needed is a worldwide standard on how and what constitutes fair trade, workplace conditions, environmental laws etc... 'In short, if you want our business, want our factories, want to make our products, and then expect us to buy them you'll adhere to the laws of our country, the USA. We can indeed demand this as a country simply because we're the chief consumers of said products.All it'd take is for us to stop buying them.

Or, in lieu of that for OUR govt. to start skewing OUR laws in favor of the actual working, producing folks in THIS country. We the people can overcome big money, big business but it'll take an effort united. And, an awareness of what's being done TO us... By, the very capitalistic yet productive corporations that decided Americans were'nt good enough to produce their own goods.

Or, smart enough to know when they were being hosed.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 138
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Posted: 6/3/2012 11:45:43 PM

IMHO what is needed is a worldwide standard on how and what constitutes fair trade, workplace conditions, environmental laws etc... 'In short, if you want our business, want our factories, want to make our products, and then expect us to buy them you'll adhere to the laws of our country, the USA.


Well, may as well just watch the list of members and wait for them to come out and say its the 'new deal'. They are all about the 'worldwide standard'.
http://www.bilderbergmeetings.org/index.php

Some of the members may be pawns. Last year facebook was invited. Look how that turned out.
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 139
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Posted: 6/4/2012 12:19:53 AM
Rather than wait and see what the Bilderbergs are gonna lay on me I prefer to spend my money how I see fit. By monetarily supporting my own and those who see and do things my way. And, by checking my representatives records and views and voting accordingly.

A new deal sounds great, a better deal sounds...better. Setting a worldwide standard can only benefit...The whole world... Not just one very rich part of it.
 fillyphilly
Joined: 5/12/2012
Msg: 140
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/4/2012 7:07:42 AM
Ironically Bukowski was a fat Capitalist. He used to go slumming for material in the harbor in the skid row bars then go home to his nice house with the hot tub. His wife is still alive and living in that big house. I always found him a complete hypocrite.
 BalderDog2
Joined: 1/6/2011
Msg: 141
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/4/2012 8:52:12 AM

I always found him a complete hypocrite.


Bukowski's bad behavior is well documented. I'd say being a hypocrite is far down on the list when compared to other things. This is probably off topic...
 jlbiv
Joined: 9/2/2011
Msg: 142
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/4/2012 7:40:25 PM
Since capitalism is what exists without government control, maybe the premise of the thread is incorrect. Maybe the question should instead be, "Can Communism Succeed?"

In free markets, you have private ownership, ownership of capital used to produce goods and services for profit. In Communism, you have common ownership... Or that's the claim, but it's a false one. Someone has to maintain control of capital and property, since it doesn't belong to private individuals, then who does it belong? The government! They set prices and assign homes and so on to who they believe needs them the most. Everyone is suppose to work for the benefit of their fellow countrymen. Anyone see a problem with this? Why should I or you or anyone work hard and put forth their best? You'll get no more out of it, people will do the minimums to survive. Productivity suffers, quality suffers, it becomes a total dictatorship with a ruling and peasant class.

In capitalism, private ownership is key. You own your capital, your property, and the profits you generate with it all. If you're more productive, produce quality goods, you can charge more, as long as people are willing to pay for it. Becoming your best is rewarded in the profits you can generate, everyone (or most) want to be better than the next guy because of competition for profits and rewards. Most don't try to just survive, they strive to achieve their best!

Rewards are what people want. Isn't that really what all this thread is about in the first place? What I would argue against is the idea Communism promotes exceptionalism. It doesn't, it never has, it doesn't promote the individual by rewards of ownership. If you're going to prop up China, even they are allowing people to gain personal wealth so they will achieve more. Now that people are getting a taste for those rewards, they want more and are having a hard time keeping a controlling grip.

Everybody wants ownership, at it's root, that's what everyone here has been saying they want in the end. If you take ownership away from everyone and have government control it all, you'll have nothing, not very little, nothing. In a Communist society, even YOU are capital.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 143
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/4/2012 7:49:22 PM
You're building a straw man.

Modern capitalism requires government. And a pretty damn big and sophisticated government at that. There's no government in Somalia - that should be a capitalist paradise. Without government complete with a legal system and agents to enforce the laws, capitalism fails. And nobody is advocating communism, so you're kind of just masturbating there.
 jlbiv
Joined: 9/2/2011
Msg: 144
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/4/2012 9:17:55 PM

Modern capitalism requires government. And a pretty damn big and sophisticated government at that. There's no government in Somalia - that should be a capitalist paradise. Without government complete with a legal system and agents to enforce the laws, capitalism fails. And nobody is advocating communism


I'll leave out the trashy cheap shot and stick to the substance. Capitalism and rule of law are kind of apples and oranges. Capitalism or "free market capitalism" is an economic system. Rule of law is what's implemented through government, in our case, a representative republic. Democracy is the road to socialism. Socialism and Communism are really the same thing, any differences are rather trivial and both result in the same sort of outcome, which is government controlling all capital. You also said "nobody is advocating communism". Advocating socialism is really the same thing.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 145
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/4/2012 9:27:52 PM
Yeah, you need to get out more.

Socialism isn't the same as communism. The only country in the world that has re-elected a socialist government uninterrupted for decades was Sweden between the early 30's and the mid 70's. By 1974, this small nation with significant geographic problems boasted the highest per capita income in the world. It had also spawned Ikea, Saab, Volvo and other companies that successfully competed on the world stage. We also used to get harangued here with commercials telling us that the average 60 year old Swede was as physically fit as the average 30 year old Canadian.

And you live in a democracy buddy. I know the radical extremists always try to deny it, but you do.
 jlbiv
Joined: 9/2/2011
Msg: 146
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/4/2012 9:44:37 PM

And you live in a democracy buddy. I know the radical extremists always try to deny it, but you do.


Perhaps you can point out where in the US Constitution the word "democracy" anywhere, in any founding document. I already know you can't, so nice try. I know you don't live in the US, but if you'd like some good reading, I might recommend the Federalist papers and the Anti-Federalist papers. Democracy was much frowned upon by those who founded this country. Democracy does lead to Socialism. This has been known by those for and against socialism for a long time.


Communism (from Latin communis - common, universal) is a revolutionary socialist movement to create a classless, moneyless, and stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production, as well as a social, political and economic ideology that aims at the establishment of this social order. This movement, in its Marxist-Leninist interpretations, significantly influenced the history of the 20th century, which saw intense rivalry between the "socialist world" (socialist states ruled by Communist parties) and the "western world" (countries with market economies), culminating in the Cold War between the Eastern bloc and the "Free World".[citation needed]

In Marxist theory, pure communism is a specific stage of historical development that inevitably emerges from the development of the productive forces that leads to a superabundance of material wealth, allowing for distribution based on need and social relations based on freely associated individuals.[1][2] The exact definition of communism varies, and it is often mistakenly, in general political discourse, used interchangeably with socialism; however, Marxist theory contends that socialism is just a transitional stage on the road to communism. Leninism adds to Marxism the notion of a vanguard party to lead the proletarian revolution and to secure all political power after the revolution for the working class, for the development of universal class consciousness and worker participation, in a transitional stage between capitalism and socialism.


Hmmm, seems even by definition it's really the same thing.. Or just a "transitional stage".
 GrandmaBooBoo
Joined: 12/30/2006
Msg: 147
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/5/2012 6:43:04 AM

In capitalism, private ownership is key. You own your capital, your property, and the profits you generate with it all. If you're more productive, produce quality goods, you can charge more, as long as people are willing to pay for it. Becoming your best is rewarded in the profits you can generate, everyone (or most) want to be better than the next guy because of competition for profits and rewards. Most don't try to just survive, they strive to achieve their best!
Ohhhh, I AGREE......EXCEPT in the case of the "Managerial Capitalism" (crony capitalism) that the world operates under TODAY, in which "managers" with little or NO personal investment (ownership...except the stock GIVEN to them in lieu of cash). They're not playing with their own capital, and....."they were looking for a job when they found that one", AND....their own PERSONAL profit depends solely on "gambling with the owners money".
HOW exactly do you rationalize "government HANDS OFF".....of my profits, BUT....justify "socializing" the losses when you lose....because your personal looses would have a devastating effect on the entire WORLD'S economy?


The government! They set prices and assign homes and so on to who they believe needs them the most. Everyone is suppose to work for the benefit of their fellow countrymen. Anyone see a problem with this?
WOW! And just WHO do you think "set the prices" for the ARTIFICIALLY INFLATED housing prices responsible for our latest financial fiasco? If you cut down a few trees dude....you might actually be able to see the forest! Granted, there were a lot of stupid people who thought that some boards and bricks were actually appreciating 15-18% a YEAR, BUT they were duped into believing this by a financial industry willing to exploit their ignorance. While it's all too easy to get a chuckle out of their "wake up call", what about the OTHER 76% of Americans who have suffered losses...while being perfectly responsible?

I have, in fact, profitted from the collapse of the financial markets, so this is NOT a "personal issue" or justification for why it's "not my fault". Morally and ethically, the so called "capitalistic economy" which we now operate is NO WHERE even close to what you idealistically describe as a "free market economy" in which the competent owners of "wealth" provide the MEANS of production for a variety of high quality products, thus stimulating the economy to the degree that anyone willing to "work" can do so.

You can sit there all week and spout off how "anyone" can start a business....and as long as it DOES NOT COMPETE with WalMart or Goldman Sachs....you're right. Case in point: The community in which I USED to live (pop.25,000) offered 2 choices of where to buy groceries. 1 choice (WalMart) if you wanted to buy a new set of towels for the bathroom. Meijer Department Stores purchased a chunk of land in town, put up their sign "Coming Soon"....and within 2 weeks, the sign was REMOVED. Within 6 weeks, the site was being prepared for a "new" Lowes (owned by Walmart) store. The "old" Lowes building was converted into shops...the State Liquor Agency, a BW3s, Pat Catans, a nail salon, a Quizznos, and a Pearle Vision Center.
WalMart's threats to close their store IF city council allowed a COMPETITOR to build in town, won out and the Meijers Store was history. While we could easily blame this one the short sightedness and corruption of "government", HOW do you rationally justify this as "competition"? Is not "competition" the BASIS for a capitalist economy? If so, they WHY is WalMart terrified of "competition", and WHY the HEdoublehockeystick is WalMart allowed to dictate the economy of an entire town?
When you talk about "government" controlled, you IGNORE the FACT...that the government IS CONTROLLED by big business interests. It HAS been for DECADES! So EVERY complaint you have about todays "economic climate"...is the result of "big business" whinning and manipulating for more control than some other big business has. So, ya know......smack my bottom and call me Dagney Taggert, but if this AIN'T some "Anti Dog Eat Dog" "capitalism crap that we've got on Wall Street today...I don't know what is.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 148
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/5/2012 8:52:16 AM

WalMart's threats to close their store IF city council allowed a COMPETITOR to build in town, won out and the Meijers Store was history. While we could easily blame this one the short sightedness and corruption of "government", HOW do you rationally justify this as "competition"?


It's just the opposite. It's creating a local monopoly. Courts in this country usually won't allow local governments to suppress competition that way, both because they disfavor it as a matter of public policy and because it's an abuse of state planning and zoning laws.


BUT they were duped into believing this by a financial industry willing to exploit their ignorance.


I don't think that's quite how it happened in California, where several counties were sort of the epicenter of the real estate collapse in 2008. As a matter of social policy, the federal government had for years been putting pressure on lenders to make irresponsibly risky loans--sometimes intense pressure--and many did. The government then allowed these lenders to re-sell the mortgages, as usual--but it also let them be packaged in ways that concealed how shaky many of them were.

If the process of buying a house in the U.S. could be made any more transparent to the buyer, I don't know how. By law, you're furnished with document after document that explains, in plain English, just how everything works. There is so much disclosure, and the process is so thorough, that I don't believe it's possible for a buyer not to know very well what he's getting into. "I didn't realize" is what people say later, after things haven't work out.
 lynyrd_hatchet
Joined: 5/29/2012
Msg: 149
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/5/2012 11:22:20 AM
I think capitialism sucks, its the little guy that gets screwed by the fat cats that exploits the poor and average folks.
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 150
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/5/2012 1:00:55 PM

WalMart's threats to close their store IF city council allowed a COMPETITOR to build in town, won out and the Meijers Store was history. While we could easily blame this one the short sightedness and corruption of "government", HOW do you rationally justify this as "competition"? Is not "competition" the BASIS for a capitalist economy? If so, they WHY is WalMart terrified of "competition", and WHY the HEdoublehockeystick is WalMart allowed to dictate the economy of an entire town?


That is how Walmart and many other large corporations understand competition in the capitalist system. They are competing against any other company that may think of setting up a store to compete against their stores. Walmart competitive effort are directed at quashing the emergence of all other competitors, just like the five families used to do against each other before they realized that it was too costly to have a permanent state of war. If you didn't think that Walmart would break the law in order to get competitive advantages, you could research how Walmart was able to become a big player in Mexico, where many of their executives open the doors to their success one bribery at a time. Of course, in America nobody would be willing to discuss openly how Walmart bribe its way into town by paying off some elected officials to obtain authorization to build new stores, and then to keep others stores from opening in the same towns.

That is the way they "compete."
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