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 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 151
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Will Capitalism Fail?Page 7 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)

That is the way they "compete."

I understand what you mean... but it is also a mistake to block them in a lot of cases. Especially in poor areas. The problem with blocking them in poor areas is that there are no alternatives for the people in poor areas to get vegetables and meat. Or there are not enough alternatives. So, hating them for their practices and blocking them hurts areas that block them.


http://prospect.org/article/wal-mart-why

We've been fighting Wal-Mart in New York, Chicago, and here in D.C.," Hansen told me this afternoon. "They take jobs away from workers in unionized chains -- jobs that pay decent wages and have decent benefits. No company has done more to reduce the wages and benefits of American workers than Wal-Mart."


It's complicated and difficult. Yes they pay low wages.... for some that is compared to no wages. Yes... them setting up in distressed communities can have an impact. There are two directions that impact can go. One is that small liquor store markets may not be able to survive. The other is that other retailers such as dry cleaning, hair salons surrounding the area could have more traffic.

How do you balance it... How do you take advantage of a large corporation without them taking advantage of you? It's complicated. Penn and Teller did an episode of BullShit on Walmart. They landed in Walmarts favor because of this issue. Technically not supporting them hurts inner city poor... So why wouldn't you support them?

Just because apparently it isn't necessary to allow them to have fresh food... it is more important to remove fast food.
http://www.baycitizen.org/blogs/quality-of-life/can-walmart-save-inner-city-obesity/

Not really, says a recent study that found almost no relationship between supermarket availability and fruit and veggie consumption. Fast food availability, on the other hand, was shown to strongly influence diet quality, especially among low-income residents. "It's not enough to say we will build it [supermarkets] and people will come," lead researcher Penny Gordon-Larsen told HealthDay.
Source: The Bay Citizen (http://s.tt/12T1h)


Isn't it great to have the overlords deciding what the inner-city gets to eat? All for their own good.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 152
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/5/2012 2:22:21 PM

BUT, you know....you're talking about how we need to pay big wages as an incentive to get motivated and caring people in Washington, and I have 3 problems with that. 1)...WHY hasn't it even begun to start working that way...YET? And what makes you think that it's going to start now, after all these years?
2) You're using the "X Theory of Management" which works poorly with the undereducated to begin with, and turns into a real disaster when you start dealing with those of higher intelligence and ability.
3) LOL! You weren't paying attention when Deathspiral so astutely pointed out that it's NOT only GM which hires idiots to manage a company because they hold the firm belief that all degrees are created equal, and the more the better, regardless of what these people actually learned, hence....we have mega corporations in the hands of people with "degrees" in basketweaving, bowling, chug and puke technology, and naked jello wrestling.


1: Because it isn't being done. They make a decent wage. I think under 200k. However, they have the potential to make millions on backroom deals and basic screwing with they system. The insider trading was just finally passed but it isn't good enough. There isn't a watching of their income by having all of their money required to pass through a controlled bank that monitors all transactions. Bypassing that is still possible but quite frankly that is straight crime and you can try to prevent crime but you will not eliminate it. A crime is a different level then just removing the necessity, ability, and motivation for the problems seen now.

2: What does the undereducated have to do with it? Incredibly smart criminals are incredibly smart. Not sure what this has to do with anything.

3: Again... what does this have to do with anything? Term limits resolves problems of an idiot congressman.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09/03/fox-news-poll-percent-favor-term-limits-congress/
Even though it says fox in the name... you still agree right?

Finally, an issue both Democrats and Republicans agree on: term limits. Nearly 8 in 10 American voters like the idea of imposing fixed time limits in office for all members of Congress -- including their own senators and representatives



People are not psychic. It makes sense that they will vote for bad people. People that like to be in government are not typically known for their ‘moral fiber’ So… don’t expect them to have it. Act like they don’t have it. Reward them for doing good work and kick them to the curb. You want them bright and motivated…. Let them eat cake. Once they are done. Back to the streets. No lifetime benefits maybe? I think lifetime is good for the President but I’m pretty much not really ready to get into it for congress/senate.

The point of what I was proposing was to pay them well enough to have high expectations and expect that there is no justification to attempt to make money in any other way. And all financial transactions would be monitored like a good big brother should.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 153
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/5/2012 2:25:14 PM

How do you balance it... How do you take advantage of a large corporation without them taking advantage of you?

You start by telling them they have to play by the same rules as everyone else.

You change your tax code to be fair and balanced regardless of the size of the retailer square footage or where they are located.

You do away with tax breaks for retail business parks because all they do it create tax havens for big box stores.

You do not have to make it unattractive for them, but at the very least municipalities need to stop shooting themselves in the foot with regards to how it treats big box stores.

When you lose local business you lose a cog out of the local economy as that money is no longer cycling through the local economy and passing through local hands, it is shipped off to a head office out of state and process by people that are smart enough to keep more of it than the little guy because they have set it up that way via lobbiest.
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 154
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/5/2012 2:33:18 PM

It's complicated and difficult. Yes they pay low wages.... for some that is compared to no wages. Yes... them setting up in distressed communities can have an impact. There are two directions that impact can go. One is that small liquor store markets may not be able to survive. The other is that other retailers such as dry cleaning, hair salons surrounding the area could have more traffic.

How do you balance it... How do you take advantage of a large corporation without them taking advantage of you? It's complicated. Penn and Teller did an episode of BullShit on Walmart. They landed in Walmarts favor because of this issue. Technically not supporting them hurts inner city poor... So why wouldn't you support them?

Just because apparently it isn't necessary to allow them to have fresh food... it is more important to remove fast food.


A friend told me about a giant Walmart in a nearby town, so one day that I was there I went inside the store. They had a supermarket with fresh fruits, vegetables, meat and dairy products, etc. The prices seemed better than at the markets were I normally shop. However, they also have fast food restaurants inside the store, and many other services, like a hair salon, tax preparation, car repair service, etc. It looked like if you leave it to them they would keep on expanding their services and products until nobody else would be able to survive and compete with them.
 BalderDog2
Joined: 1/6/2011
Msg: 155
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/5/2012 2:47:17 PM

The prices seemed better than at the markets were I normally shop. However, they also have fast food restaurants inside the store, and many other services, like a hair salon, tax preparation, car repair service, etc. It looked like if you leave it to them they would keep on expanding their services and products until nobody else would be able to survive and compete with them.


That is the idea--to have all the wealth controlled by just a few people. If they can control all the wealth, they can control all the people.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 156
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/5/2012 5:06:02 PM

A friend told me about a giant Walmart in a nearby town, so one day that I was there I went inside the store.


Haha, I don't have a large one around me. They have been banned. There is one about 10 miles away but I went there once and it was awful. I don’t' remember it having any real services or groceries for that matter. I had been to one further away in a more remote and affluent part of the city that had lots of services and was huge. They even sold pets. Really nice and very clean.

One of these things is not like the other. Crappy store was in a poor area totally surrounded by many alternatives, very nice store was in a more remote affluent area with little existing resources.

Doesn't not make sense.
 CoolBreezez
Joined: 8/20/2006
Msg: 157
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/5/2012 6:13:20 PM

One of these things is not like the other. Crappy store was in a poor area totally surrounded by many alternatives, very nice store was in a more remote affluent area with little existing resources.

Doesn't not make sense.


To venture a guess- one store built in the middle of an older city area with established local businesses on a strip. The affluent one was built newer in a planned suburb only the lonely retail business space. Since the new one had no competition and had to try to meet the communities needs and had expansive space it could obtain- it became that bright new mega store. Sweet deal and wise business.

Also kind of lacking in flavour, variety or opportunities to buy higher quality items- the sanitary institutional look is just cookie cutter and bland.

I rarely go the Walmart- here in Canada even it is just too crowded and no clothes or items I like really (low quality). I suppose its great for families trying to stretch a buck. Something self old me doesn't really worry about any more- LOL. The small savings in reality are offset by fuel cost alone in getting there.

I live close to the core of town in an older neighbour and try to use the local stores. It is a bit of a hunting around mission but in a way interesting and you meet the owners.

To each their own- its a free country- even here in Canuckistan-lol
 Sciencetreker
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 158
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/5/2012 8:23:35 PM
I'm in Walmart just about every day. I call it my 'warehouse'. I buy 95% of my groceries there....mostly fresh produce. About 40% savings over the chain grocery store in the same mall. Both stores are foreign owned (American) and thus supposedly 'evil'. We should put a tarrif on all those foods the Americans produce cheaply and ship to Canada...ha! ha!
 CoolBreezez
Joined: 8/20/2006
Msg: 159
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/6/2012 2:20:55 PM
^^^^ Can't say I disagree with you if Walmart is your local. As far as the tariff- well no we can do that- we'd be living on canned food, beer and bacon all winter in Canada(that sounds strangely appealing). However I wonder what will happen in years ahead as fuel becomes more expensive for all that transport.
In any case, produce and food is relatively cheap here in North America. Locally I have a Great Canadian Superstore about 10 minute walk/ 1 minute drive. I also have one of those boutique fresh produce stores about a 2 minute walk from my door. I go there for produce, cheese, baked goods. More money for sure but much fresher and no driving period. I call it my pantry. I was thinking I could reduce downsize to a bar fridge and practically buy as I eat . And there's more women there than in my kitchen too- bonus!!! lol

Isn't capitalism great? Choices Choices everywhere. I would just ask everyone to think of all the costs of their food when they seek the "best deal". Just price isn't the whole part of savings- there's more to the equation. Sometimes running all over town for the deals has its own hidden costs and time, which itself is a valuable commodity.

In all, I think capitalism will survive. But it will change form as people dictate. If you want a sound economy however, you need money moving all over the place, through as many hands as possible and circulating quickly. Full employment is good for all both economically and to the soundness of your society.
 Sciencetreker
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 160
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/6/2012 2:39:46 PM
Just got home from Walmart

Mango....Mexico
Blueberries....USA
Lettuce...USA
Bananas.....Guatemala
Manadarin oranges....Peru
Grapes.....don't know
Yam....don't know
Hot house tomatoes....Canada

Folks complain about capitalism. ...yet when I was a kid we'd had only apples and bananas throughout the year. Never knew what a mango or blueberry even looked like...or a kiwi, papaya, etc.
 Balsamica
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 161
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/6/2012 2:57:57 PM
""I'm in Walmart just about every day. I call it my 'warehouse'. I buy 95% of my groceries there....mostly fresh produce. About 40% savings over the chain grocery store in the same mall. Both stores are foreign owned (American) and thus supposedly 'evil'. We should put a tarrif on all those foods the Americans produce cheaply and ship to Canada...ha! ha!""

Very little of what you see in Walmart stores was produced in America. ... just the business model.

"". ...yet when I was a kid we'd had only apples and bananas throughout the year. Never knew what a mango or blueberry even looked like...or a kiwi, papaya, etc.""

Same here, we got local produce which was in season.........but I wonder: what's the real cost? If a mango is from Peru.......does Peru benefit or do Peruvians? What's the environmental cost?

It's nice having the variety of fruit and vegetables, but I find most supermarket stuff is tasteless, just kind of pulpy and bland tasting. I'd rather local, in-season stuff that tastes good than tasteless crap shipped half way around the world that rips off the host countries.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 162
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/6/2012 3:12:51 PM

If a mango is from Peru.......does Peru benefit or do Peruvians?


Are you saying that someone or something is forcing the people in Peru who grow this produce to export it to the U.S.? If not, I don't know why they'd do it unless they hoped to profit from it.


shipped half way around the world that rips off the host countries


Again, just who is being cheated in these countries by exporting produce, and how? Presumably they can sell their goods wherever they can command the highest price.
 Sciencetreker
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 163
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/6/2012 3:30:52 PM
matchlight...agree with your sentiment.

A lot of folks still have a racist, patronizing attitude towards those in Peru, indonesia, Guatemala, etc. They think we need to treat them like mentally deficient children that can't make their own decisions.

If folks want to never eat an orange, banana, mango, pineapple, etc. because they are brought in from other countries then that's their choice. In contrast,I personally will eat an imported grape from California in late summer and a grape from Chile six months later. I'll eat lettuce 12 months of the year instead of just the 3 it is grown here. I prefer a fresh apple imported from New Zealand in February than one grown in Canada and stored for 10 months. I'll let others eat only potatoes and turnips for 8 months of the year....I'll be munching on Mexican asparagus and Vietnamese pineapples.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 164
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/6/2012 3:34:05 PM

shipped half way around the world that rips off the host countries


Another way that leftisim trys to spread poverty. We can't exploit those poor pooor people of color by doing business with them... for shame.
 CoolBreezez
Joined: 8/20/2006
Msg: 165
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/6/2012 5:35:23 PM

In contrast,I personally will eat an imported grape from California in late summer and a grape from Chile six months later. I'll eat lettuce 12 months of the year instead of just the 3 it is grown here. I prefer a fresh apple imported from New Zealand in February than one grown in Canada and stored for 10 months. I'll let others eat only potatoes and turnips for 8 months of the year....I'll be munching on Mexican asparagus and Vietnamese pineapples.


As I said choice is a great thing. How would I deny someone such happiness? As a matter of fact, your best friend, the government, wishes to help you out. Canada has just set up a brand spanking new $100 million dollar/year food inspection agency-funded by your general revenues aka black hole that our taxes and EI surpluses go into.

http://www.canada.com/Ottawa+rewriting+rules+food+inspection/6717048/story.html

Us Canadians- our generosity knows no bounds. ;/
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 166
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/6/2012 6:17:26 PM

Again, just who is being cheated in these countries by exporting produce, and how? Presumably they can sell their goods wherever they can command the highest price.

Like most things you speak of, you know nothing of.

Most small nations are under the thumb of the World Bank and per said agreement they are strictly limited to what and who they can sell their goods to.

Just ask someone from Jamaica and they know all too much how they have been cheated.

You should look it up or at least comb over it.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 167
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/6/2012 7:07:26 PM

Most small nations are under the thumb of the World Bank and per said agreement they are strictly limited to what and who they can sell their goods to.


So, you should be happy about this. It's always good to have someone familiar with healthcare running the world bank.

http://americanactionforum.org/topic/obama%E2%80%99s-world-bank-pick-may-succeed-not-reasons-obama-thinks

Today’s nomination of Dartmouth president Jim Yong Kim to be president of the World Bank was a narrow escape. There was a chance that President Obama might select a really qualified person: Lawrence Summers, who was often viewed as the lead candidate. But he was obviously unfit: He is a former secretary of the Treasury Department and an award-winning economist. Thus he was of course disqualified.


So, is this not valid? Old info?
http://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/tpr_e/tp85_e.htm

Jamaica is not party to the WTO's plurilateral Agreement on Government Procurement, although a regional CARICOM plan is underway to create a central, regional information coordination agency. The report states that Jamaica is currently bringing its anti-dumping legislation into conformity with the relevant provisions of the WTO agreement.
 Sciencetreker
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 168
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/6/2012 9:56:14 PM

Most small nations are under the thumb of the World Bank and per said agreement they are strictly limited to what and who they can sell their goods to.


huh? Denmark? Norway? Belgium? Luxembourg, ...?

What you really mean is that non-Europeans are not capable of governing themselves. Fortunately such racist attitudes and the days of 'White man's burden' are over.

I'm going to enjoy my mandarins from Peru and bananas from Guatemala. You may choose to never tropical fruits fruits but so be it. In contrast, I have no illusions that boycotting bananas from Central America is anything but misplaced silliness at it's most silly.
 kingslayer64
Joined: 5/20/2012
Msg: 169
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/7/2012 3:16:27 AM
"Just because something is legal, does not make it ethical nor does it mean it will support the system in which it thrives. Will Capitalism eventually destroy itself through greed?"


Capitalism has always failed its based on GREED and CONSUMPTION ,one cant exist with out the other .How long can we keep consuming till there is nothing left ? Sooner or latter we will be consuming one another .Now what should we replace it with ?

?
 lynyrd_hatchet
Joined: 5/29/2012
Msg: 170
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/7/2012 9:50:25 AM

Capitalism has always failed its based on GREED and CONSUMPTION ,one cant exist with out the other .How long can we keep consuming till there is nothing left ? Sooner or latter we will be consuming one another .Now what should we replace it with ?
aint that the truth, and who do ya think pays for all the greed ? us the little guys, bailouts ,corporate welfare, cuttin jobs for the sake of bonus and them being undertaxed ? and you call this a fair system?
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 171
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/7/2012 12:41:03 PM

aint that the truth, and who do ya think pays for all the greed ? us the little guys, bailouts ,corporate welfare, cuttin jobs for the sake of bonus and them being undertaxed ? and you call this a fair system?


Then we should stop doing that. The message has become clouded and confused. We are not a capitalist country. It’s a mixed economy. We have elements of free market, capitalism, and social and corporate. We are supposed to have people smart enough to know the difference and maintain the balances.

hmmm who f*d that one up.


Moving more towards free market will help. Putting some monitoring on the emerging monopolies (google / facebook) is a good thing to keep an eye on. Breaking known bad things like banks doubling as investment houses is a very good idea. Limiting the growth of monster corps like Monsanto can't hurt anyone.
 lynyrd_hatchet
Joined: 5/29/2012
Msg: 172
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/7/2012 1:12:04 PM
moving towards free markets, you cant let corporations run amok , there needs to be straonger regulations to prevent this.
without regulations the big corporation will phaze the little guy out.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 173
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/7/2012 1:16:40 PM

moving towards free markets, you cant let corporations run amok , there needs to be straonger regulations to prevent this.
without regulations the big corporation will phaze the little guy out.


Thats why you need people that are not idiots with bizare political agendas of 'transforming the country' running things.

And I meant more 'moving back' then moving towards. And of course. Regulation is key to healthy economy. That doesn't mean punishing regulations like what we have now where only the richest of companies can survive. It means stop trying to tranform the country with every f*n political appointment.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 174
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/7/2012 1:29:16 PM

Thats why you need people that are not idiots with bizare political agendas of 'transforming the country' running things.

The regulations are in place not because of someones incompetence, they are there because someone wanted them there.

Corporations draft their own legislation and push it through think tanks and lobbyists to get what they want.

Get rid of the lobbyists and you have gotten rid of a big part of the problem.
 CoolBreezez
Joined: 8/20/2006
Msg: 175
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 6/7/2012 4:27:06 PM

Moving more towards free market will help. Putting some monitoring on the emerging monopolies (google / facebook) is a good thing to keep an eye on. Breaking known bad things like banks doubling as investment houses is a very good idea. Limiting the growth of monster corps like Monsanto can't hurt anyone.


What kind of crazy talk is this?! Holding down success!

You - You - liberal wolf in conservative sheep's clothing.

I dare say you sound like some type of bizarre... moderate. lol

Actually these are the right path to good ideas. If you can get past the rhetoric, and get the government in the business of governing, instead of bashing ideological talking points and making reactionary laws, maybe they'd get someplace. There 'd be less careening back and forth every four years with 180 degree shifts in rules with the election cycle. One key for me is that budgets must be balanced in short order. No spending cuts without a cut in expenditures and no expenditures without a means to pay and a business case for returns on investment. The goal could be actual to accumulate reserves and a dispersion of excess reserves after a time/ dollar amount in lowered taxes. Tax cuts and expenditures must be shared. Tough times and austerity must be shared by everyone in government, starting with the leadership.

In a way, I guess I'm kind of an idealist myself. But running the government should be a boring thing really, more evolving as things change than revolutionary every election. The current climate of polarization is more akin to a banana republic than a first world nation. Its not just the US I'm taking about but many Western democracies right now. I welcome when the age of the moderate returns, when the government is run with the intent of the benefit of the most.
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