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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death      Home login  
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 tbicon
Joined: 5/6/2012
Msg: 26
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as deathPage 2 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)

All men who have ever lived still lived, and all men who ever will live, still will live. Just not at the same time or in the same place, unless we are talking about a very big place and time


I think this is the point, we are talking about a very big place and time . . an infinite amount of space and time to be precise. I don't pretend to understand this stuff other than to say that time is not absolute as proved by Einstein's theories of Relativity, as Newton thought it was. So if the post is confusing . . well yea, the whole concept is.

I started this thread based on what I have read from the web about this subject. I suppose I really didn't expect any posters here to have much to say. I would think only Abelien comes close to understanding this stuff, and even he is likely in the dark. But my understanding is that time is not linear, need not automatically flow forward, and indeed may not exist at all.
 pappy009
Joined: 2/3/2008
Msg: 27
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History
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/28/2012 4:47:15 PM
My observation:
The future, the past is all here now...Is time real, Sure, time is motion without motion there would be no time or 4th dimension space...it would be stillness. Time is measurement we use. Time is forward, like energy going forward, as in Zen the Life stream...constant movement forward. As you experience it, you create the past, and you only experience it in the now, therefore the Past present and future are in the now. Death I feel is a transition, we move into a new element no different than this one. When born, on the first breath, DMT floods the brain, this introduces the new "Unit of Observation" into the body of here. The DMT slowly wears off and that Unit of Observation adjust to a new reality. Grow old, and the body wears down, on death, the body again floods the Brain...the pineal gland...with DMT again to reintroduce the Unit of Observation into a new realm death. That Unit of Observation is consciousness or soul and continues indefinitely, from one Quantum reality to another to anther...in Sant Mat they are called Planes science like its own name quantum densities. Or Many Mansions, or the Stairway to Heaven.
 tbicon
Joined: 5/6/2012
Msg: 28
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/29/2012 1:43:34 PM

then your understanding is deeply flawed


Unless your PH.D. is in physics, as opposed to some non-technical subject like education, you are hardly in a position to tell me I am wrong, especially since there are brilliant physicists, with much higher IQs than you have I am sure, that believe exactly what I quoted.
 tbicon
Joined: 5/6/2012
Msg: 29
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/29/2012 2:14:13 PM
Johnny, why are you pretending to understand this stuff when you don't. I consider myself highly intelligent . . mensa material actually, and yet this stuff is WAY over my head. But I enjoy reading about the Universe because I always find this subject fascinating. There is no PROOF time does not exist, there are only theories by those who spend their careers immersing themselves in the mathematical language of the Universe. Is that you? If not, what is the point in our arguing. You don't understand this stuff better than me or most other people. You are simply using your intuition and rationality to make sense of the world, but none of that applies at the quantum level, where I understand some experiments prove that quantum particles actually can exit a door before they enter. Anyway, try Google. Its all out there for you. Try putting in time flowing backwards quantum physics. Here is just one article I quickly found:

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2012-04/quantum-experiment-effect-happens-cause

A real-world demonstration of a thought experiment conducted at the University of Vienna, has produced a result that is somewhat befuddling to people with what the lead researcher calls a "naïve classical world view." Two pairs of particles are either quantum-entangled or not. One person makes the decision as to whether to entangle them or not, and another pair of people measure the particles to see whether they're entangled or not.

The head-scratcher is: the measurement is made before the decision is made, and it is accurate. "Classical correlations can be decided after they are measured," says Xiao-song Ma, the writer of the study. Entanglement can be created "after the entangled particles have been measured and may no longer exist."

The finding can be integrated into potential quantum computers, one hopes. Causality, clearly, is a quaint, irrelevant concept
 tbicon
Joined: 5/6/2012
Msg: 30
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/30/2012 6:46:27 AM
The point, going over your head, is you aren't smart enough or knowledgeable enough to argue this stuff intelligently.

A nobody teacher trying to take on einstein?. Good luck.
 tbicon
Joined: 5/6/2012
Msg: 31
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/30/2012 10:26:52 AM
Yep DR, fascinating and controversial. Will we ever truly understand and know for sure the truth? Unlikely. We shall continue to play out our lives with our illusion of reality. What the quantum world tells us at the least is there is a whole lot we don't see and will probably never understand about time or anything else in our limited views of reality.
 pappy009
Joined: 2/3/2008
Msg: 32
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History
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/30/2012 4:38:01 PM
We create a method called time which in itself is a commercial value, the Gregorian Calendar is based on commerce, time to go to work time to go home. Sunup Sundown. What Al is getting at is that there is this energy called consciousness that does not die, but transforms into something else. Al believed in a Source or G-d energy not a personal being. So he references it in a manner that is philosophically scientific. As long as your stuck in this body, then you experience this reality in that form. The energy moves forward and not back. No sense bringing in Quantum thinking until proven fact is established.
I was in an accident once..I saw the car coming right at us in our car, knowing it was going to hit us..Time slowed down...I watched that car come right at us at half speed. Now that to me is in line with Quantum theory, but it was experienced consciously. No one was seriously hurt. I am sure many people have experienced the same thing. Einstein was fascinated with the human mind, the imagination. The Human mind is capable of slowing down time and I experienced that. As many others have. I after that experience, I believed what he was getting at..about the power of the mind. Quantum is to me our imagination. Putting it into concrete reality is the test.
 gedanken
Joined: 9/2/2009
Msg: 33
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/30/2012 5:54:04 PM

hypothesis---time exists and is linear, continuous


Just to set the record straight here, time is not linear. Only in a weak gravitational field and over sufficiently short durations of space-time can 'time' be said to approach linearity (ie Minkowski metric). Otherwise, all solutions to Einstein's field equations that match reality require a non-linear metric for the space and time components.

As well, you mandate that it is "continuous", but make no attempt to prove it. How do you know that at a quantum level it is not discontinuous? At best, one might say that time Ii] appears to be continuous on a macroscopic level, but why even refer to continuity in the first place if there is no attempt to prove it and adds nothing to the argument?

So, since the hypothesis is incorrect and illogical, any conclusion that is reached is invalid.
 gedanken
Joined: 9/2/2009
Msg: 34
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 6/30/2012 7:58:59 PM

"time exists, is either continuous or quantized(discrete)---depending on whether your measuring equipment is analog or digital---, and is a function of both velocity and gravity, relative to some inertial frame of reference of the observer.


Better, however for the sake of your argument, I was thinking something a tad more concise such as "Time exists and is asymmetrically causal."
And, of course, you and I both know that fundamental structure of space-time is not immutable depending on what type of equipment that we are using to take measure, just as a galaxy doesn't morph if we decide to look at it in x-ray as opposed to infrared.
However, you may slap yourself in the face again...
 tbicon
Joined: 5/6/2012
Msg: 35
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/1/2012 4:54:31 AM
Is this a contest to see who can write more gobbledygook?
 tbicon
Joined: 5/6/2012
Msg: 36
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/1/2012 10:42:45 AM
You could never take me on successfully, not if I put any effort in my arguments. But being honest, why would I waste my time? I give the opinions of some top notch theoretical physicists, not my opinions, and you tell me how dumb i am. I don't mean to attack you personally. I just quickly sized you up for what you are. Sorry.
 NO_NO
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 37
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/3/2012 5:33:09 PM
When I first hear just the words that time did not exist, first thing it came to mind was. Maybe it is like in a movie, when the movie is done. You have the content of the movie, but there isn't really time in the movie, we just take time to watch.
 ExitingTheStage
Joined: 5/25/2011
Msg: 38
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/4/2012 3:51:11 PM
hypothesis---time exists and is linear, continuous


Referring to the movie analogy... since the movie needs to be watched ... and life has to be observed to... feel time pass....

. . . it is not linear because you cannot feel the past.... you can draw timelines, sure... but you're not actually measuring it... You don't have the ability to measure time into the past....

.... and the future.... you cannot measure or feel that or observe the future....

linear is an observed line.... a line we cannot see or make measurements of....

because it is only a pointing moving forward....

but is it straight? was it straight all along?

It's a ridiculous notion that this thread assumes.
Going back to meet yourself in the past or future is science fantasy.



The trick with this fascination of time travel.... is that you could never invent an experiment to prove that it could work.
 NO_NO
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 39
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/6/2012 10:06:02 AM
The movie needs time to be watch, but doesn't need time to exist. If life is like a made movie, the perception of time is simply an illusion.
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/7/2012 10:00:05 PM
Again: until we look at how we're defining time in the first place, a conversation like this is pointless.
 RyanReed
Joined: 3/14/2012
Msg: 41
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/9/2012 3:55:39 PM
Action and reaction.

Stuff changes and breaks down, some things that break down contribute to the growth of the new, so you are part right, but not for the right reason, imo.
 HelpIcantbreathe
Joined: 7/2/2012
Msg: 42
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/20/2012 9:25:37 AM
PlentyofThrowbacks
Sciences is not a evil villain out to achieve some nefarious goal, just because you lack a basic understanding something doesn’t mean that you should attribute human drives to it so that you think you understand it. I much more intelligent approach is to learn about it so that you can form an informed opinion.
OP,
Your quote mining Einstein… and quote mining is bad mmmaky.
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/21/2012 2:07:57 AM
That's not a useful or applicable enough of a definition for the purposes of this conversation.
 LennyPane
Joined: 2/2/2011
Msg: 44
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History
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/21/2012 3:28:40 AM
So sad that Einstein's not alive today to prove this point ;)
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 45
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/23/2012 8:08:38 PM

"Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration. That we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves." ;)


Good quote man. I love Bill Hicks. Tragic though what an untimely loss. Makes me very sad to think about it.
 Knightrose
Joined: 11/2/2010
Msg: 46
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/28/2012 4:18:07 PM
I think it's incredibly enlightening, at least it was to me, when certain human definitions are abolished or broken down. For example, matter is never destroyed. Nor is it created. This to me would seem that life (or death) are only important to a conscience state of mind. While conscience, while alive, we favor the state of living. There is however no less or more usefulness to our environment in a state of life. Than there is in a state of death. Technically I agree with you, we never die because matter never dies. It just gets recombined in a flowing wave of existence with everything near to it.

Read this quote from Steve Grand:

“Consider yourself. I want you to imagine a scene from your childhood. Pick something evocative... Something you can remember clearly, something you can see, feel, maybe even smell, as if you were really there. After all, you really were there at the time, weren't you? How else would you remember it? But here is the bombshell: you WEREN'T there. Not a single atom that is in your body today was there when that event took place. Every bit of you has been replaced many times over... The point is that you are like a cloud: something that persists over long periods, whilse simultaneously being in flux. Matter flows from place to place and momentarily comes together to be you. Whatever you are, therefore, you are not the stuff of which you are made.”
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/28/2012 5:30:16 PM
69:

You aren't the physical stuff, but the arrangement, the information...and even then is it irrelevent that you're not the energy...not the physical stuff, but not the energy either...because that's what energy is...?

Over a period of time, a ship has it's worn out components replaced by identical but new components. The old worn components are saved, and assembled together as this process goes on. At some point, there is the completely new ship, and the original old ship, both identical otherwise. Which is the real ship? The original ship?
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 48
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/28/2012 7:51:25 PM

Whatever you are, therefore, you are not the stuff of which you are made.”


and this is because consciousness itself is of another (timeless) realm; thus no matter how many times your physical (atomic) components have been replaced; they can still summon and maintain your essence.
 Knightrose
Joined: 11/2/2010
Msg: 49
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/28/2012 9:26:18 PM
Well how relevant is 'real'? I've always felt that it's a mistake to imagine something has purpose for me. Rather I can give purpose to my life. From that purpose I can determine what is real. The best part of that equation is that I can rely on the evidence of the world that surrounds me to be used in creating purpose. Rather than pretend I live in a garden of snakes and apples.

Everything is made of stuff. A second 'bombshell' might easily be added to Grands quote in saying this: Evidence of reality is based only at its core on our senses and our belief that those senses are working in our favor. If you derive the origin of every sense you can divide them down to one: Touch. Touch is the only real sense. Every other sense is merely a different neural program for interpreting touch. We live in a physical world and it is the only world we have ever known likely ever will. Any time we claim to have evidence of what is real is based solely on the fact that the evidence itself is physical. To claim otherwise is, well, delusional. It is also impractical when concerning are most basic survival needs. So whatever is real must be physical first and vice versa.
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 50
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/28/2012 9:52:15 PM
drinkthesunwithmyface:

There is one physical component of sentient living beings (humans, dogs, marmots, etc.) which is never replaced throughout life. How unfortunate. I wonder what kind of effect I would have on the being if they could be coppied and replaced.
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