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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death      Home login  
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 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 51
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as deathPage 3 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)

Rather I can give purpose to my life. From that purpose I can determine what is real.


The "purpose" you give to your life is merely subjective from within; the "reality" you draw from that is relativistic. If a person chooses to give "purpose" to his life by fully devoting himself to humanitarianism(like mother Teresa did); his reality will be far different from the man who chose to be a bum panhandling on the streets.


Everything is made of stuff.


hardly everything!


Touch is the only real sense. Every other sense is merely a different neural program for interpreting touch.


really? If so then how do you "touch" sound or color!


So whatever is real must be physical first and vice versa.


according to this then there is no such thing as time or space.
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/29/2012 7:47:58 PM
69, 70, 71:

This would imply that your conscious self is gone when there are no longer any material or energetic support or maintenance for the "information"...the arrangement of matter and energy that is you despite component atoms or cells being replaced...when you die physically.

73:

What physical component of sentient beings is it that is never replaced?

My personal instinct...don't know if it's true or false yet...is that you can make an absolutely identical copy of me, but it wouldn't be me. I can't imagine suddenly becoming conscious inside this other copy. Wouldn't make sense. It might behave just as I would, and outside observers might not ever know any difference. But I say that it wouldn't be me. A stimulating thought though. I know that what seems to make sense or not is based mostly on what I know or have experienced. The glitch is that I am here, behind my eyes, aware, conscious. Not that I'm observing from the outside another person who says this, and who interacts with me with apparent intellect and sentience...but that I myself am here inside this head of mine, looking out. If we reconcile this thought, this experience, that would answer a lot of questions.
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 53
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/30/2012 12:41:14 AM
Drink:


What physical component of sentient beings is it that is never replaced?


Well actually I misspoke. It is two things, if I am remembering the science corectly (I know for sure at least two however there could be more - biology is not my field of study/focus).

Nerves And neurons.

Cannot be copied regenerated.

"I think there for I am."


The glitch is that I am here, behind my eyes, aware, conscious. Not that I'm observing from the outside another person who says this, and who interacts with me with apparent intellect and sentience...but that I myself am here inside this head of mine, looking out. If we reconcile this thought, this experience, that would answer a lot of questions.


This part of your post makes very good since to me. I have a lot of ideas about why you have those feelings, though, I don't share them with very many people. In my opinion, what you said is very close to the reality of things. Use the thread search and dig up the thread "The Soul?". Read post #43. Let me know what you think about the little I said.
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/30/2012 1:29:49 AM
76:

However, if it makes a difference to what we're talking about, brain cells are replaced as they die by back-ups that you're born with. They're the one cell that doesn't reproduce. So you are born with a lot of replacements which wait to come online. What you are born with is all you get, like a woman's eggs, versus a man's sperm. That's why, btw, people don't know what they're talking about when they say that we use only a certain small percentage of our brains and if we could use more or all of it we'd be smarter. If we could, we'd be brain-dead in a few years or so.

How do I did up that thread...any more I could go on?
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 55
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/30/2012 1:59:45 AM
Drink:

"How do I did up that thread...any more I could go on?"

There is a search bar in the science/philosophy forum, you know, were all the threads are, including this one. Near the top right of the forum there is a search bar with a drop down menu next to it that says thread title. Click the drop down menu. This should bring up a list of alphabetically ordered forum names. Scroll down to "s" for science/philosophy. Select science/philosoph from the drop down menu. Enter "The Soul?" into the search bar located directly to the left of the drop down menu. push enter. Should pop it right up for ya.

Have fun with your new toy

:)
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 56
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/30/2012 2:12:22 AM
Drink:

Once again, if I remember the science correctly (it's been some time)

Yes but, once the neurons die the don't all stored information is lost and they don't get disposed of they just stay right right where the die, and new pathways must be built around the.
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/30/2012 2:17:39 AM
79, 81(hehe):

Yea. I'd wonder what that means. How much difference is made by it happening just a little at a time. How does it all work...how is the "you" really manifested or maintained or expressed...does it make a difference, or are the tiny differences just never noticed...or does it work such that what you are doesn't rely so much on that anyway?
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 58
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/30/2012 2:18:19 AM
Drink:

Yes but (once again, if I remember the science correctly -it's been some time) once the neurons die all stored information is lost and they don't get disposed of they just stay right where they die, and new pathways must be built around them.
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 59
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/30/2012 2:35:57 AM
"what you are doesn't rely so much on that anyway?"

It's just an info loss. The information is not entirely who you are. It would be a lot to talk about. It would take hours to write something on it for you. I have something witten on the matter, but it hasn't been revised in probably five or six years now. It's not that this writing is wrong, it's just that the writting is horrible, and I wouldn't want anyone to know that I was ever that much of a moron. It embarrasses me.
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/30/2012 4:17:00 PM
81:

But I mean that I think that the single neuron itself doesn't store information, it is it's existence among an ecosystem, the connections, and communications, that expresses the information. Like if the internet, or web, became something holistically, because of the connections and communications traffic, irrelevent of what info is at each terminal or what info is being sent and received along the traffic lanes...something that is on the next higher level, almost oblivious to what is being communicated along the individual lines or stored at the terminals.
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 61
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/30/2012 4:55:16 PM
To my understanding you are very close. The only disagreement I have with you is that I think that the information is stored as a phisical system, a program if you will.

We would have to get into quantum entanglement to start talking about this, and the subject is so complex that it would literaly take me hours just to do the the thinking that would be involved in responding to you, and that is to say nothing about composing the response and fact checking and rereading certain texts to make sure my assertions are accurate. This is a lot of work Drink, and I just don't have the time for that right now. I don't even have time, at the moment, to make another argumet on the "agnosticism" thread (which I am enjoying immensely). Sorry Drink, you're going to have to work on this one without me buddy.
 CressB
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 62
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 7/30/2012 5:34:24 PM
Drink:

Your working on this stuff in the "Speculating on the edge of Cosmology/Quantum Theory" thread right? I'll give it a read later on tonight, and see if there is anything that I can contribute.
 emotionalheat
Joined: 6/27/2007
Msg: 63
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 8/1/2012 12:55:50 AM

Yes but (once again, if I remember the science correctly -it's been some time) once the neurons die all stored information is lost and they don't get disposed of they just stay right where they die, and new pathways must be built around them.


Partially correct, we are born with all the neurons we will ever have. Neurons do die, but we have a great many more neurons in our brain than anywhere else, obviously that’s because neurons cannot be replaced and if too many neurons are lost then the brain could not communicate with your body & vise verse. But when a neuron dies, new pathways do regenerate to compensate for the lost one.

Neurons have a nucleus that contain DNA information and that’s the only information that a neuron retains. Otherwise they carry sensory information and that information is transmitted to the brain in the form of a chemical, it is not retained by the neuron.

Different types of information are stored in different parts of the brain (e.g. hippocampus, amygdale, mammillary bodies, dorsolateral prefrontal cortex).

In order to facilitate memory and abstract thought we create constructs (relational pieces of information) related to a particular concept. For this reason the definition of a word may be stored separately from the word itself, and the word may be related to different concepts – which is why people sometimes confuse definitions of words or use a word out of context.

When we try to recall a memory, we must reconstruct that memory from differ areas of the brain and separate the necessary parts of the memory from other constructs it may have been related to. Consequently, every time we recall information the brain recognizes it as ‘new’ information, and when we dismiss it from our working memory, the recalled memory is stored, with all its flaws, as a new memory. So what we remember is not an accurate representation of the actual event, in fact it’s not even an actual memory FROM the original event rather, it is a only a memory of last time it was remembered.
 nanshe
Joined: 10/27/2013
Msg: 64
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 10/30/2013 10:51:47 PM
Death is a word we invented to define things when it changed form. There was once a consensus in the Scientific community that the Universe is infinite, then the consensus changed and now they believe that the Universe is "nearly infinite". Which is ridiculous, it is either Finite or Infinite. Saying it is nearly infinite does not answer the question of "what's beyond it?"

Measurements give us the illusion of Finity, we have set boundaries and say this table is 2 feet long, it ends here. But my table can be the whole earth or the Universe if I choose to. I believe in infinity and if one can show me just one thing finite then I will believe in "Finity".

They said, Matter cannot be destroyed nor created, but now they talk about antimatter, 2 particles with opposite charge. Encounters between these two particles is supposed to cause the "annihilation" of both. This is laughable as they aren't really annihilated, they just changed form and became energy.
 BikerRed19
Joined: 11/5/2010
Msg: 65
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 11/17/2013 11:40:41 AM
In budhism once you learn how to lets say become enlightened or trencend duhkha then you break the cycle of re-birth and exist as somethin that in lack of better words "just is". A being that could be considered neither live nor dead but both at the same time with knowledge that only few come to understand.
 localRenoite12
Joined: 4/17/2013
Msg: 66
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 11/20/2013 12:20:42 AM
Our understanding of time is simply a measurement, it does exists in the form of causality that is defined by reactions within a space.


What I got from Eisenstein theory is that every moment in time will always exist. So even if we die the previous moments in our lives are still happening, but that doesn't change the fact that you're still dead and there's essentially no feasible way to "regain" access to those past moments in time unless there's some supernatural force behind all of this.

There's also a school of thought that believes that time is essentially nothing except a form of human reasoning to rationalize reality and as such it cannot be traveled or manipulated as it isn't there, but I don't believe this as it seems as if time didn't exist there would be no causality to any event and as a result no reality would exist.

In the end these are all theories and the answers to all of these questions are either hundreds (if not thousands) of years away or unanswerable.
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 68
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 11/27/2013 6:59:42 PM
Albert Einstein was one of the great minds of our time. Eventually he ran out of time and died. Too bad we can't ask him if his theory has panned out as he thought.
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 12/9/2013 11:53:37 AM
^ Yes. That's a good topic indeed.
 Flurr
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 70
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 1/13/2014 5:28:22 PM
Very true, if you have once existed in this universe then you will always exist in this universe, at least somewhere.
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 1/17/2014 4:12:22 AM

the universe will expand to a point where the light from distant galaxies no longer reach us, the night sky will turn black. The fuel in the stars will slowly run out, one by one they will extinguish from the universe. Black holes will suck up all remaining matter until eventually, it is all gone and even they will evaporate leaving, nothing


I know that the following has been done to death, and that it will stick like a thorn in the arse of the hard-core adherents to current formal science, but it still needs to be considered and just hasn’t been considered the right way without negative reactions or approaches from either side of the idea.

I always felt this to be too simple or straightforward, concerning how and why we extrapolate that...that there might be more to it. I know how this is extrapolated, but it seems like squeezing too much out of too little, concerning data and observations. And again this may just be from me not knowing all that "they" know.

- We see the universe expanding, and even accelerating in that expansion, but we are seeing what's happening during a snippet of time that is so absolutely, ridiculously, outrageously, small, and short, compared to the whole of time implied. For all we know, the universe could be doing a shape-shifting dance like Flubber. How much more is there, really, that isn't this extreme squeezing of data, to say that it all was just at one point before expanding...and to say that it'll simply continute expanding out into immeasurable vastness?

- Concerning the earlier stages before the age of stars, and what's going on with black holes, we've theorized, and confirmed to an extent, pretty good about these things...but we're still not that sure and don't really know that much about all that (?).

- Being a closed or isolated universe, and matter and energy not being able to be created or destroyed...might it not be that this is a natural property of things such that we'd inevitably observe it this way, but that there is more to that story as well? In principle, it isn't intrinsically nonsensical (?) to think it’s possible that matter and energy does get destroyed or created, that there might be more to the “life cycle” of matter and energy, the quanta building blocks, but we just don’t observe that yet because otherwise that’s how things operate for things within the reach of our experience so far…and that there are more or “higher” features to everything, or how it all works, that we just can’t observe or extrapolate yet (I’m trying really hard to not say “dimension” nor “supernatural”, because of different reasons for each, and because neither is not quite what I mean).

Otherwise, I want to make an additional comment that...geez...this universe is just so damned big. Wow. How in the world did we even come up with a map of the cosmic background radiation in the first place? The scale of vastness really does mesmerize me.
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 1/17/2014 4:04:54 PM
andyaa:


because light doesn't travel instantaneous we see the universe as it was. The further you look, the further back in time you are seeing. Right in front of you is the whole 13+ billion years of the universe

In other words, we're not limited to a particular snapshot of the universe's timeline. We can first see what's around us, and gain some data from that. Then we look back a little (further away, so further back in time), and gain some data from that. Then we look back even further, and then even further still, and gain data all along the way. And we compare everything that we figure from every stretch of time to see some consistency in what might be happening on the larger scale, instead of guessing at things from just a really small stretch of the timeline.

Like the cosmic teapot argument, that would be for you show, currently there is no evidence to show that the universe is doing anything other than expanding isotropically

Well, remember, I wasn't claiming that such-and-such about the universe was true, or that we should consider something more than we should consider something for which there is no evidence. But I was just showing an example of making sure that we're able to conceive of other things to make sure that we're not blinded against a needed paradigm shift or re-interpretation.

in the past the universe was highly energetic, not so today, we can say from this that it will be less so in the future until 1 day that energy will no longer be useful

That's going to suck. Good thing that time is so unimaginably far away. I sometimes ponder the fact that the universe, and organic life, seems to be doing an entropy-trade-off, and is always trying to build something or do something with it, such that maybe there'll be some kind of "monument" left over at the very end when it's all burnt up and is completely dead, to commemorate the once-alive universe.


unenjoyable:

Yes. Trying to comprehend exactly what "space" really is, is quite slippery indeed.
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 1/17/2014 6:51:48 PM
Dam.

Intervention! Fish are friends, not food.

Minnie don't burn chicken.
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 1/19/2014 9:41:03 AM
^ Ever heard of things like "half life" and "decay"? Is that applicable?
 OTTO BONN
Joined: 4/20/2006
Msg: 75
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 1/19/2014 6:57:34 PM
Atoms don't die.

They will if the Big Rip hypothesis comes true. . . in 20 billion years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_far_future

That stuff makes "In the Year 2525" by Zager and Evans seem like a nursery rhyme by comparison.
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