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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death      Home login  
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as deathPage 7 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)

You are one crazy mixed up dude!

Ok...when thinking of many of the posts here in general...try to imagine something -

I click, scroll, and read that ^ and I suddenly burst out in out loud laughter. Laughter which lasts for several moments, after which I take a breath, and indulge in laughter again, just for the sake of laughter because it's so funny and so fun. *sigh* That was fun.

Ok...um...after checking over this post to make sure I don't need to edit anything...I've burst out in laughter again. Oh what great fun.

You are one crazy mixed up dude!
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 2/8/2014 4:31:31 PM

you are the crazy dude .... and I'm laughing... but like look says .... that's fun.

Like look says? Hope that doesn't mean what I think it means.

Oh, and I'm gonna pray for the little baby black holes too.
 Burning-Chrome
Joined: 7/4/2013
Msg: 83
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 2/24/2014 1:48:32 AM
The initial assumption of this thread is wrong, there may not be such a thing as time but there is such a thing as atomic decay based on gravity. And once a atom has go past a specific point of decay, you can't go back. You can use energy to rebuild it to be something like it formerly was, or you can use energy to speed up it's rate of decay, making it appear to age faster and thus travel forward in time, but the one thing you can not do is return to an exactly the same previous state.

Time is best viewed like a river of potential energy pouring out from the source of the big bang, different parts of that river go at different speeds, meaning the whole thing is quite fluid and bendable, but only really in one direction. An object caught in the flow has three choices, it can go with the flow, expend energy and kick with the flow, essentially speeding it's self up, or expend a lot of energy fighting against the flow and not really getting anywhere as the flow pushes it along at it's speed anyway.
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 2/24/2014 3:32:20 AM
But I rail against the notion that there is no time in the first place.
 Burning-Chrome
Joined: 7/4/2013
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 2/24/2014 3:54:36 AM
That's a case of splitting hairs, time in it's self isn't real, it's our perception of atomic decay under the force of gravity. Therefore you can't say it's the real '4th' dimension, because it's just an extrapolation of the other 3 dimensions in relation to their energy. However the forces of gravity and atomic decay are obviously real therefore time as an observable phenomenon is real, it's just not one of the basic phenomenon from which all others can be measured, hence the term, time is relative.
 Burning-Chrome
Joined: 7/4/2013
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 2/24/2014 10:22:35 AM
I wouldn't say has no place in our experience as it obviously has so much to do with how we perceive and experience reality, but yes it is just a neat mathematical trick we pull within a matrix who's parameters are energy and mass so we can measure changes in those states.
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 2/24/2014 4:01:20 PM


But I rail against the notion that there is no time in the first place.

That's a case of splitting hairs, time in it's self isn't real, it's our perception of atomic decay under the force of gravity. Therefore you can't say it's the real '4th' dimension, because it's just an extrapolation of the other 3 dimensions in relation to their energy. However the forces of gravity and atomic decay are obviously real therefore time as an observable phenomenon is real, it's just not one of the basic phenomenon from which all others can be measured, hence the term, time is relative

Um, so, time is real then. "Itself" real or not? Is real, I say. Don't know about that spitting hairs thing. "Just a perception", or "only observed phenomena", to me, is meaningless, concerning whether or not it's real. Time is whatever time is. And so, whatever it is, if it is that, then it is, and so it's "real". It "exists". Not a 4th dimension? Ok, so what? I think you mean a literal spatial dimension, and I agree. But it doesn't have to be a dimension to be "real". It's so odd to me how many people begin speaking about time as a trick of perception, or something like that, as if that means it's not real...hell, in a sense, matter itself could be called simply a "perception". It's "just" energy. And then what is energy? Oh wait, it's just another trick of perception. Well, ok, whatever...it still "exists". It's still real. Part of what I understand time to be includes that it's our ability to perceive a certain phenomena. But time is that. That's what time is. So time "is". It's not "just a perception". It actually happens.
 Burning-Chrome
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 2/24/2014 4:17:06 PM
That's like saying you have a real relationship with a popstar because you watch them on TV. In fact that's the perfect analogy. The perceived brand of the pop star is no closer to being the real person they actually are then time is to the actual process which drives it, that being atomic decay. It's like you perceive the sky to be blue and to have a certain limit to it during the day, but you know it isn't. You know that's photons refracting within the atoms that make up the atmosphere and that in reality once you get passed that atmosphere you can see almost forever in almost any direction. What you perceive to be real isn't always the case. In fact what you can see, hear, smell and touch makes up less than 1% of the reality that surrounds you. It's very hard to define anything as real when we all have such a blinkered view.
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 2/24/2014 4:53:00 PM
I guess it's game time. Dumb argument time. Bubba?! Is that you?!

The sky being blue is "only photons refracting within the atoms that make up the atmosphere". Ok, fine. But the sky is still blue. It's still a real thing that the sky is blue, "perception" or not. Because when we say that the sky is blue, this is what we mean...when we say it's blue, we mean "photons refracting within the atoms that make up the atmosphere make it appear blue". The sky isn't blue anymore when we leave the atmosphere? So what. Doesn't matter.

This business with things "only being" such-and-such is always weird. Taste and smell is "only" chemical signals to your brain. Well, so what? Since that's what we mean when we talk about smell, then that's what it is, and it really is that. It's no less real. It's "just" the chemical signals, but it's still "real". Love is "only a chemical activity" in the brain. So? Love still really "happens".

"having a real relationship with a popstar because you watch them on TV" is not a very good analogy. The character being different than the actor is a poor demonstration. Ok, time is different than the actual process which drives it...so what? There's no relevance. The velocity of the spaceship is different than the rocket that drives it, but the velocity is still real. The velocity still happens. The spaceship is still really moving. If it's not, then don't bother getting out of the way. Something tasting like strawberries to me is different than the chemicals that make that happen, and it's "only" a certain chemical signal to my brain "tricking" me into thinking that it tastes that way. But it still tastes like strawberries. The taste is still real. When we say something tastes like strawberries, all of this ^ is what we mean. For that matter, the sky isn't even really blue, because that's just a wavelength of light, and my brain interpreting that wavelength and letting me know that it's that wavelength that is there...but wait, guess what? That's what we mean when we say "blue". Therefore "blue" is still real.

Time is such-and-such. Ok. That's what time is. That doesn't somehow mean that it in fact "isn't". That can't negate it's existence. It still really is "there". It actually "happens". It's "real".

Hahaha....oh god, this kind of jazz really cracks me up. Say all of that ^ outloud and realize how damned stupid it is...how dumb it is that it has to be explained like that.

I propose that there isn't even really 3 dimensions, so a 4th one doesn't make sense anyway. Things just "are", the way that they are. Nature isn't thinking in terms of different axis for dimensions. Three dimensions are "just our way of being able to measure things spatially". But wait, is that what we mean when we say "three dimensions"? Or do we need to make sure that we're not mixed up between the fact that there isn't literally any "dimensions", yet reality manifesting itself in a three-dimensional way is something that still really happens. Is still a real thing. But wait again...if we therefore are treating time as an additional dimension, then it can really be just that, for the purposes of application...not that it's really a "dimension" any more than the previous 3 are. Unless they are. Are the 3 dimensions really there, as forces of nature or reality? Ok wait a minute...I don't even know what I mean anymore. I'm all mixed up now. What the hell was I saying? Maybe I'm not real either. I am "only a particular arrangement of matter and energy" for this moment in time.

Oh holy sh!t. Since time isn't real, then there isn't even this moment in time, in which there to be my particular arrangement of matter and energy.

*POOF* (poster has disappeared, as poster wasn't real in the first place)
 Burning-Chrome
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There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 2/25/2014 1:23:08 AM
Or maybe I just went to bed . . . .

If time is so real, why do we have to keep adjusting it so much in order to make it practical for us. I mean. you'd think with it being such a universal constant for all but no, two atomic clocks under different gravitational conditions keep time differently. And this is because it is a human abstraction, it is not a universal constant. Hence why two objects moving at different velocities relative to each other perceive time at different rates. We call this the theory of relativity and it's such a good theory we built the modern world on it. And all because a patent clerk realized that the only things that where really real where matter and energy.

You live in an abstraction of the real world created by your mind, even something as simple as the concept of the number one is actually an elaborate logical underpinning created by your mind. Because you recognize that you your self are a unique individual, a single self you therefore assume the same of other objects. This creates the concept of one. The same can be said with almost everything else you experience, they are abstractions created by your brain. For example colour, you can see colour because photons bounce around the universe until they hit receptors in your eye where they become electrons which are transmitted to your eye. Now photons them selves do not have a colour, you do not get red photons and blue photons and green photons, what colour is perceived depends upon the wave length of the photon, a wave length that can change at any point. It's only the photon which is actually real, everything else is just an abstraction of it's properties.

Exactly the same could be said of time. Just like colour is an abstraction of the properties of photons, time is an abstraction of the properties of mass and gravity and how they relate to one another.

Which funnily enough brings us right to the last point the above poster was trying to make. Just like time the other three dimensions aren't real either. Again they are abstractions. Things either are, or they aren't. (Shrodingers Cat, quantum theory and probability) What determines whether they are or aren't is the relative relationship between their energy and their mass. From these two measurements, so long as they are placed in to context against the same measurements of everything else that surrounds the given object, all it's further properties can be worked out. We call this the standard model and there is only one piece of it left to figure out which is Gravity, is it a force or a particle or both. Once we've answered that then we'll be able to work out how the abstraction of time really works (At least in theory, my money's on this being the point where we just find a new level of detail.)
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 2/25/2014 5:58:32 PM
You were sent here by aliens to entertain me and see how long I'd take the bait, weren't you?

If time is so real, why do we have to keep adjusting it so much in order to make it practical for us

1 - You have to adjust your car sometimes. But it still really is real. Really real.
2 - You're talking about adjusting clocks, and calender days, and stuff. That's not quite the kind of time that you think that you're talking about.

you'd think with it being such a universal constant for all but no

Very big mistake that everyone makes for some odd reason. There is not any kind of universal constant of time. No overarching or underlying time-frame for everything.

...sigh...no, I'll pick apart the rest of your jibber jabber later. I'm dropping the bait for now. It's so tedious and tiring and idiotic, I don't feel like it right now. Looks like a lot more crazy crap there, but maybe later.
There is no such thing as time, and thus no such thing as death
Posted: 2/27/2014 12:58:45 AM
^ That is a funny thing to try to imagine or comprehend. What is the perpetually fleeting "now" after all? But I don't know that it leaves it just an abstract conceptual state.
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