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 AUTHOR
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 226
Living on a shoestring budgetPage 10 of 13    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13)

People in my generation never had to deal with tough economic times until just recently, and really, it's still nothing like the great depression.


Speak for yourself.

Until I was six years old, my family lived in rural Oklahoma. We didn't have running water. My mother finally got a wringer washer but before that, she washed clothes in a pot in the yard. We hauled water out of a well with a bucket and we had an outhouse. My father worked in a distant town and now, the distance would be a daily commute; then, it took hours to drive over the narrow, winding roads, so he came home on weekends. Before than, he did other jobs such as chopping and hauling wood for charcoal. He always worked, but it didn't alleviate the grinding poverty.

When we moved to California, things were better, but it wasn't until workers went on strike (lumber mill) that the workers began to get wages that actually paid the bills.

My father learned to read and write in the CCC in the 1930s. He was a smart man, but he went to work as a boy and never had the opportunity for education; considering this, he did well in his life. My mother went to eighth grade, but she never learned to drive and did not work outside of the home. Even in Calif, I grew up in a low socioeconomic area where everyone was poor; it wasn't until we were bussed to town in sixth grade that we realized what freaks we were.

In the 50s, 60s, and even the 70s, rural areas of Oklahoma, Arkansas, Missouri and other places were third world "countries." People in ghettos in urban areas had it no better--they did not even have the opportunity to hunt or raise food.

Don't make judgements or statements about others based on your experience. As an adult, I continued to live in the same low socioeconomic area. The last ten years of my marriage were financially comfortable, but early on, there were times when we worried about paying bills because my ex was laid off during the winter.
 DragonBits
Joined: 1/6/2012
Msg: 227
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/5/2012 2:46:40 PM
gwen,
it wasn't until we were bussed to town in sixth grade that we realized what freaks we were.


With that statement you make my point. Your poverty was the exception, I was speaking about the majority.

Though my father worked in the CCC camps and was an upholster, not a very highly paid profession. If it wasn't for my mother working, we would have never been able to leave the apartment and the city. Though there was good entertainment, we would sit in the living room and watch the fights across the street. They tried to raise chickens in their apartment, and the father and son used to have knife fights. Once I got hit with a pork chop bone from someone throwing it at me as I walked done the street.

I grew up in a bad neighborhood in North Chicago, and when going to school I moved to an even worst neighborhood on the South Side, 54th and Ashland. In that place you don't pick fights because they use shotguns, and I was the minority. I have known, worked with and dated others that are similar to what you describe. When I was a paperboy, there were several men that worked as paper boys, one sleeping in a cart in the office. Or in winter, one guy would commit a minor crime so he could go to jail for the winter.

When I was 20 I worked for a year in a chemical plant where I was one of 2 white guys and the rest black and Mexican. Interesting times. For a while I was working 2 jobs and didn't have a car to sleep in, I tried to sleep on a bench, the police don't like it and people keep waking you up. I hated to waste the time on the bus getting back to my apartment. I didn't last long working 2 full time jobs.

Dated a woman once in Maryland who was the rich one in her family because she could afford teeth. Also dated people in Asia that have dirt floors, no running water and charcoal stoves.

My experience has ranged quite a bit, I am comfortable with people that still have to use ice to keep their food cold to others that currently earn over $250,000 a year.

It's tough to impress me with either riches or poverty. Woobytoodsday story impressed me , I was impressed that she was able to both live in NYC and build her own composting toilet. And I thought you did well for yourself to end your marriage and start out on a new life, you were successful in losing weight and establishing a new career. But you are a bit too combative with mostly men, IMO perhaps overcompensating.

I make statements about the majority because I deem them to be true, the exceptions won't influence me to think otherwise. But I don't judge people till I get to know them personally, everyone has their own burdens.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 228
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/5/2012 4:58:34 PM
I wrote:
it wasn't until we were bussed to town in sixth grade that we realized what freaks we were.


Dragon responded:
With that statement you make my point. Your poverty was the exception, I was speaking about the majority.


Sigh. Again, you assume too much.

When we were bussed into town, it was 50/50 between the more affluent kids and the poor kids. Until then, we were basically segregated. As we went into high school and more students were bussed in, the poor kids were the majority. However, it was the affluent minority that ruled the roost--they were the jocks, the cheerleaders, and the ones who were awarded the white sweaters.

In Oklahoma, poor people who lived in rural areas were the majority--I don't know how the cities were at that time. I did, however, just watch a documentary about the Pruitt-Igoe housing development in St. Louis that was built in 1954. The project was an unmitigated disaster--and it was poverty stricken people who lived there.


But you are a bit too combative with mostly men, IMO perhaps overcompensating.


This made me laugh. I am "combative" (not the word that I would use) with people with whom I disagree: I disagree with things that you say. I find that any time a woman disagrees with SOME men, they find her "combative." In my not so humble opinion, perhaps you are used to compliant women who agree to be agreeing or who are reticent to voice an opinion. My brother-in-law is like this: if I don't agree with what he says, then I am argumentative. My sister gives non-committal replies to him because she says it isn't worth listening to his BS when she disagrees. She smiles and says, "Uh-huh" and goes on with what she is doing.

I won’t stop pointing out what I see as fallacies in your posts—just as you won’t stop pointing out the fallacies that you perceive in my posts. I am not calling you combative because you have rebutted and downplayed everything that I have said!
 DragonBits
Joined: 1/6/2012
Msg: 229
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/5/2012 6:10:03 PM
gwen, you tend to do this more with men than women, just something I notice, maybe I am wrong, what do you think?

If my sister-in-law should call, I seldom disagree with her even though I think she is a biopolar fat slut, but she is a little nuts and I don't want her to focus on me. As an example, when her child was a baby, she slipped tranquilizers into his milk and feed him beer to keep him quiet. This AM a strange woman called the house saying if she (sister-in-law) doesn't stop harrasing her, calling at all times, she is contacting the police. She appealed to me to talk to my brother about it. She does have good days when she is pleasant on the phone. But if somehow I have to talk to her, usually I say "uh-huh". If my brother should divorce her, then it would be easy. Of course, after talking to my brother who doesn't have a job, he says he owes the DMV $250 and has no money, is $123 short in his checking account, so now I have to run around to put money in his account. Or his registration is canceled.

So maybe I had a bad morning and maybe I made a mistake about you being combative, don't have time to think about it right now.

take care
 DragonBits
Joined: 1/6/2012
Msg: 230
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/6/2012 5:07:37 AM
gwen, regards subservient women, I think those are metaphysical creatures that are rumored to have existed a 100 years ago. Others think that they are an invention of the porn industry.

There have been reports of such creatures spotted in some Asian countries, but I suspect another internet rumor. As I have dated in Thailand and Hong Kong, I would beg to differ with that common myth put forth that Asian women are subservient.

If you google "world's leader in penile reattachment surgeries" you will find Thailand has that distinction.

Then you find the following link.

http://www.thaimedicalnews.com/thai-girls-cut-off-penis-video/2007/12/08/

They have been boiled, fed to ducks, even attached to hot air balloons and cast into the night sky – when it comes to permanently depriving a cheating lover of a recently severed penis, the imagination of the wronged Thai woman knows few bounds.

Not sure if this is a retro or progressive feminism movement.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 231
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/6/2012 5:21:54 AM

gwen, you tend to do this more with men than women, just something I notice, maybe I am wrong, what do you think?


I think that you spend too much time wondering about what I do and why I do it.

As for submissive women, if you think that they have not existed in the last 100 years, you have never been to a potluck of fundamentalist (or even fairly fundamentalist) Christians or southern women who fill up their husbands' plates for them.


If you google "world's leader in penile reattachment surgeries" you will find Thailand has that distinction.


Cutting off a penis isn't a feminist act: it is an act of desperation on the part of mistreated women. In a sense, it is the ultimate passive/aggressive action. Loreena Bobbit cut off what's his name's penis after he came home drunk and raped her (even though he was acquitted). He had physically and emotionally battered her for years. I imagine the Asian women do not wake up one day and say, "Oh, I think I'll cut off his penis this morning because he didn’t take the trash out yesterday."

Of course, female genital mutilation is rampant in Islam. Girls are most certainly given an option as to whether they want their clitoris chopped off, eh?

You trivialize the status of abused women throughout the world, and you wonder why I protest your claims and statements?


he imagination of the wronged Thai woman knows few bounds.


Oh, yeah? Tell that to the daughter of my deceased best friend—her mother was shot and left to bled to death by her father—another stat in the world of men whose quest to right imagined wrongs knows no bounds.

And you are way off topic—this thread isn’t about my combative nature or penis replacement: it is about dating when one is poor
 nativerock
Joined: 10/16/2010
Msg: 232
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/6/2012 8:42:15 AM

They have been boiled, fed to ducks, even attached to hot air balloons and cast into the night sky – when it comes to permanently depriving a cheating lover of a recently severed penis, the imagination of the wronged Thai woman knows few bounds.


Oh my talk about a woman scorned EEEEK..What is the point in attaching it to some hot air balloons is this some kind of sic ceremony?
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 233
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/6/2012 11:32:16 AM
I'm so damn poor I can barely afford to pay attention, but despite that fact I have noticed that this thread has veered wildly off-topic.
Now I have this horrible visual in my head of a squadron of hot-air balloons dangling severed penises...
Can we please get back to talking about dating on a budget?
Cindy O
 larissan04
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 234
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/6/2012 11:48:23 PM
i think a lot of the responses are just way off when it comes to money. while i do think that men can be very judgemental about women's socioeconomic status (usually liberal men, cough cough), i think there is something to be said for being with someone who is financially responsible and able to at least take care of themselves. look, money does matter. i don't think money is the root of all evil, but rather, i think the lack of mney is the root of all evil. if you've ever been really broke and just scraping to survive, then yeah, you know how stressful and desperate life can be. it's hardly enjoyable to live with the knowledge that just one unexpected expense (like a costly car repair, or needing a new tire, etc) could possibly cause you to default on a payment or set you back on paying your rent. it isn't enjoyable to live this way, and really, only those that have money can say that money doesn't matter. that sort of attitude is very waspy-middle class. that being said, people should be able to take care of themselves and demonstrate some interest in creating wealth - at least from my perspective - this is what i look for in a partner. i want to make lots of money, and i'd like to be with someone that is interested in being successful as well. i don't need to be with someone that is rich, and i don't need someone to pay my way. but i do need someone that has similar financial goals as i do.
 justlookingvt
Joined: 5/8/2010
Msg: 235
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/6/2012 11:58:26 PM


i do think that men can be very judgemental about women's socioeconomic status (usually liberal men, cough cough),


Apparently they are no more judgemental about it than some conservative women. (lol)

May I offer you some cough drops ?
 Tarnished_Knight
Joined: 3/5/2009
Msg: 236
view profile
History
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/7/2012 9:45:04 AM
Ms. larissan04 wrote:
i don't think money is the root of all evil, but rather, i think the lack of mney is the root of all evil. if you've ever been really broke and just scraping to survive, then yeah, you know how stressful and desperate life can be.


True, money is not the root of all evil, money is just a tool allowing individuals or groups to reach a particular end. It is the LOVE of money that causes the problems. Whether your love for money causes you to spend as if there was no tomorrow or hoard to the exclusion of all else, it is our relationship with this tool that can so influence how we relate to others.

Son's mom was a case in point. She followed her dad's example and tried to squeeze the last breath from each penny. To a degree that is good (i.e., I'm still driving the truck I bought in 2000: looks great, runs better, meets my needs - wish it got better mpg) but when squeezing a cent denies your partner pleasure, causes you to buy crap that doesn't last, and otherwise interferes with a life with others, you've wasted the blessings a tool like money can bring.
On the other hand I've known folk who have no concept of the value of money, esp. if it comes from others. Setting aside the profligate waste of most of our elected officials (Calif. [and then the Fed] approved spending billions of scarce taxpayer's earnings on high speed rail!!!) I am currently in the midst of extricating myself from a business situation in which the developer must have mistakingly thought he was Congress the way he was spending funds without sufficient due diligence and with little regard for the bottom line. My only chance of redemption is to take over the project and apply some common sense and fiscal stewardship.

Personally, I like people with money. They are the engine of the economy. As has been said many times in other venues, poor people do not create jobs. When I was poor I either did it myself or did without. I had very little to give to help others, and I certainly did not have the were with all to invest in opportunities that would provide others with jobs and would ultimately benefit others with fewer blessings.

One other area I disagree with Ms. l is her take that it's the lack of money is the root of all evil. When I was poor, in material wealth, my lack of funds did not cause me to commit crimes or other evil acts. Again, it is our relationship to material things (i.e., the love of money) that will cause us to sin against others. If it was the lack of money that causes evil acts then people like Mr. Madoff and other rich folk would not exist.

TK
 Tarnished_Knight
Joined: 3/5/2009
Msg: 237
view profile
History
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/7/2012 10:05:35 AM
Ms. luv,

It wasn't the lack of money that caused the woman to enter into a line of work I consider shameful, it was her lack of self respect.

There are plenty of other opportunities to put food on the table other than selling your body to the cheapest bidder. Her choice puts not only her health and welfare at risk it endangers her children.
We could go round and round on this issue, but people make their own decisions. Is it justified to steal bread to feed your family. Or stated another way, are permitted to impoverish others to elevate ourselves? My answer, of course, is NO! Yet it is this thinking that has fueled the ignominious slide of the United States into poverty.

By justifying one's poor behavior due to circumstances we demote our fellow travelers to less than animals with no morals.

Are there no churches? Are there no food banks? Are there no friends and families?
I don't know about you, but I give and/or assist all three. I hope and pray that others do too.

TK
 Giggles10000
Joined: 6/17/2011
Msg: 238
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/7/2012 10:47:48 AM

It wasn't the lack of money that caused the woman to enter into a line of work I consider shameful, it was her lack of self respect.

There are plenty of other opportunities to put food on the table other than selling your body to the cheapest bidder. Her choice puts not only her health and welfare at risk it endangers her children.
We could go round and round on this issue, but people make their own decisions. Is it justified to steal bread to feed your family. Or stated another way, are permitted to impoverish others to elevate ourselves? My answer, of course, is NO! Yet it is this thinking that has fueled the ignominious slide of the United States into poverty.

By justifying one's poor behavior due to circumstances we demote our fellow travelers to less than animals with no morals.

Are there no churches? Are there no food banks? Are there no friends and families?
I don't know about you, but I give and/or assist all three. I hope and pray that others do too.


How many food banks have you been to? How many churches? How often have you stood in line to get food for your children?

Until you have been there with hungry kids you have no clue what a mother will do to feed her kids--and yes I have done all of that--and no i didn't whore myself out--not much of a call for a bald slightly green tinted woman going thru chemo--assuming cause you give to a church or even better the American Cancer Society that the aid gets to those in need is just wrong to use as a base to JUDGE others.

Friends and family have to have more then you do to help you, don't they?--well one of the things about society is when a woman has difficulty at times she becomes isolated from her friends and family--I was living 4 hours away in a town I had only been in 3 years. The churches here were so great but yanno they had this thing that different churches would give out food certain days--in different parts of town--so you had to get there (gas isnt cheap) and then wait in line and hope that by the time it was your turn there was actually edible food left. So at times I had to have a 4 hour chemo session in the morning and then stand in line to get food for my kids when the doctor has said to go straight home and not expose myself to anyone for fear Id catch something since my immune system was so weak.

When I was going thru cancer--the American Cancer Society told me that the only amount of support they could give me was $75 toward my $100 electric bill and a wig that had never been styled--it was very nice to be in their building with their extremely rich looking furnishings and all the cars in the driveway were brand new and everyone walking around in their nice suits--that made the trip so worth while; knowing I had a day to come up with $25.00; so i took all my jewerly to a pawn shop--talk about someone stealing something!

Again people want to believe if you do everything right that nothing bad is going to happen to you--just because nothing bad has happened to some doesn't mean that others haven't had the bottom fall out of their world. I do not support the claim that women turn to selling their bodies to the cheapest bidder but as a mother I can understand why one might. I know I wouldn't ever consider judging someone for anything they did if they have reach that low of a point in life. --you consider shameful--you should feel the shame when you look in the mirror! She wasn't stealing bread, which is impoverish others to elevate--she was using the only thing she had left to provide for her kids. Keep looking at the world with your rose colored glasses and passing judgement on what is shameful -- and pray to god one day you never really need help.

I have never been so humbled as I was then; when random acts of kindness from strangers helped lift my life up--I still cry over what people did for me then--and I try to help as many people as I can--I dont give to organizations so the people working there can have a good life style I actively seek out those in need--you continue to feel so great about your giving when you have no clue that what you give ever gets to those who need it and keep on judging something you could never possibility understand.
 Sciencetreker
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 239
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History
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/7/2012 11:02:56 AM
Baloney:

Poverty is no excuse for poor behavior...whether it's theft, dealing drugs or selling one's body. It's an insult to the hundreds of millions who have been or are poor and but still 'do the right thing' to get by in life.


How often have you stood in line to get food for your children?


Zero. I'm sure however that the women I know would stand in line a thousand times before they'd sell their bodies. You might prefer to sell you body than stand in line but the women I know wouldn't.
 BLONDE_ANGEL845
Joined: 6/30/2012
Msg: 240
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/7/2012 11:36:16 AM
I had a friend once confide to me that when she was a limo driver, there was a regular customer- she said he was tiny, old & bald...and he hinted to her that he'd take her out to dinner, have sex in his hotel & give her $ She said she did it a few times as she was going thru a divorce (she is 10 years older than me, so the support laws were harder to enforce then) as she really needed the $$$

She cried & asked me if it made her a prostitute. I said no it made you a human being & a mother.
The guy was honest in what he offered her, IMO that is better than men or women who pretend to want a relationship when all they want is to get laid.
 Sciencetreker
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 241
view profile
History
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/7/2012 11:38:05 AM
I must live in a nicer society. In my neighborhood if a woman with a child knocked on almost any door and said they were starving...they would leave with a bag of groceries. She wouldn't need to resort to selling her body, theft, etc.

Poor Americans I see on the news. etc. look far from starving to death. Exactly how many American children starve to death in the USa each year because of poverty?

Sure, a mother would do anything to save her child but I don't see how any mother in a western society who sells her body is saving her child from starvation. Perhaps in Ethipoia or the Sudan.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 242
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/7/2012 2:46:27 PM

i don't think money is the root of all evil,


The saying is actually "the LOVE of money is the root of all evil." This changes the meaning of the cliche, eh?


It wasn't the lack of money that caused the woman to enter into a line of work I consider shameful, it was her lack of self respect.



There are plenty of other opportunities to put food on the table other than selling your body to the cheapest bidder.


So, you know this because you have been a down and out woman who chose to enter into "shameful" work in spite of many other opportunities to feed her children? Yeah, fer sure—WHY would a woman take the “easy” way out and sell her body? I mean, when there are plenty of other opportunities, prostitution MUST be the easy option or why would she take it?

Don't judge those women until you walk a mile in their shoes.


Zero. I'm sure however that the women I know would stand in line a thousand times before they'd sell their bodies. You might prefer to sell you body than stand in line but the women I know wouldn't.


Judge not lest ye be so judged.

Some people would rather starve than accept charity—their pride is that great. As for churches and food banks—when my son’s house burned down, churches refused him help. As for food banks, the rural poor have a hard time reaching them.

I have never had it so bad that I needed to turn to prostitution, churches, or food banks, but I can say this: if the need arose, I would do what I needed to do to survive.

Decades ago, I remember sitting in a fast food restaurant that had a salad bar. A woman came in with about five kids, purchased one salad, and refilled the plate many times so that the kids could eat—she ate nothing. At the time, I thought it was scandalous that she would pay for ONE salad and take so much of the food.

After I had kids, I developed more compassion. Now, I know that she was doing what she felt she needed to do to feed her children. Regardless of what brought her to that spot in her life, it was/is NOT my place to judge her.

Giggles, I don’t always agree with what you say, but thank you for sharing your experience.


I must live in a nicer society. In my neighborhood if a woman with a child knocked on almost any door and said they were starving...they would leave with a bag of groceries. She wouldn't need to resort to selling her body, theft, etc.


Go to rural Missouri, old town Eureka, California, north side Springfield, Missouri, most urban locations . . . some people will help and some will turn their heads.

Better yet, go to China where parents give their babies drugs to make them appear to be ill, where they lame their kids to get more money when they beg, THEN condemn the mother who prostitutes herself to feed her kids instead of prostituting them.
 GrandmaBooBoo
Joined: 12/30/2006
Msg: 243
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History
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 6:25:21 AM

And I didn't want to tough it out being married working at Wal-Mart or the equivalent.


Boo-hoo. Some of us swallowed our pride and took what we could get at the moment.


AGREED!!! LOL! We didn't even have "Wal Marts" in my part of the country 36 years ago when I spent 4 months living in my car....with my 1 and 2 year old daughters. NOR, did we have "day care centers" and especially....we did NOT have "government subsidized child care" so from my 1 full and 2 part time jobs......I paid over 60% of my net income just to pay for a babysitter so that I COULD work. There were NO....I mean....NONE "food stamps" for anyone who was employed, regardless of how little they earned.

Over the years, I've taken a lot of criticism, stopped going to Baptist churches, and learned to ignore the negative and hatefully selfish opinions of those who feel they have the right to dictate HOW others "make it" though this life. When someone recognized that I was a "good worker" with gumption...and a good mechanical aptitude offered me the opportunity to take an apprenticeship test for a construction trade, I jumped at the CHANCE to WORK to give my children and myself a better life. I once commented (to someone who questioned WHY "a pretty woman" was willing to do such physically difficult and grossly dirty labor), that "For what they're paying me....I'd carry $hit on a teaspoon back and forth to Cleveland all day!"

A LOT of people never get those "opportunities". Granted, there are those who DO get the opportunity, and turn their noses up at the thought of doing "menial" work, but I think that MANY people who end up "living on a shoestring budget" just literally have struggled their whole lives to get by and will continue to do so.

I also believe that for myself....Gwendolyn, and Wooby (and others), though they will have to either confirm or deny my own personal belief....I think that "hitting bottom" and having NO HELP.....NO WHERE to turn but to ourselves was in reality....a BLESSING! I think that IF, I had had even the "minimum" amount of "help" that I would have likely stayed in the "rut" of "just getting by". As hard as it is for me to think of allowing any family to be homeless and children to be hungry.....we must admit that SOMETIMES having no where else to turn works to an individuals advantage in the long term.

NOT everyone who is knocking on poverty's door is there because they were lazy or unmotivated and I thank God daily that I was blessed with a good mind and a strong body.
 Paderic
Joined: 2/23/2010
Msg: 244
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 7:07:23 AM
LOL, this thread is getting to be like reading The Grapes of Wrath.
 mjinict
Joined: 8/13/2008
Msg: 245
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History
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 7:19:02 AM
That's quite an admirable story grandma, but I don't think I'd advocate a no safety net for living in a car with 2 toddlers.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 246
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 8:05:11 AM
Whilst I previously posted a message requesting a course correction( return to actual topic), I do have to chime in here with some general info that I have heard, observed or know/knew to be fact at one point in time or another.

Many "safety net" systems, even "faith-based initiatives"!- have limits, restrictions, qualifications. Historically, the qualifications for and time limitations on "government" "safety nets" have varied and many of them do have cut-off
time frames.
I also live in a community where a woman and children could knock on just about any door and receive a bag of groceries...and a damn good thing because there are few men who have or would be willing to spend the price of a $5 whore!-there is still the very human tendency to judge those who seem unduly reliant on the "kindness of strangers" .

While I wholeheartedly support the concept of "give a person a fish and they will eat for a day, teach them to fish and they will eat for a lifetime'...WTF is anybody supposed to do when the waters hold very few fish? Consider 10-12 fisherpersons and one scrawny carp...well, you do the math. The miracle of the loaves and fishes is not a frequently occurring event!

Yes, despite various "safety nets" people/families can and do fall thru the mesh of said nets. And, as others have mentioned, there are factors such as pride( or fear of serious repercussions!) that can keep a person or family from seeking help from outside sources.
So I don't think any of us can make sweeping statements about what someone else OUGHT TO DO! All we can do is set a standard for ourselves as individuals.

To the OPs question posed in message#1

Yes, I'm certain that there are many PoF participants who are living with some pretty stringent financial constraints and those constraints are not always just the result of poor planning, laziness,improvidence.

Just as a general observation I would think that the truly monied folk aren't going to feel a need to participate in a free dating site with any level of seriousness.
Even those who don't want to go out and find dates "the old-fashioned way" or those who fear "being used for my money"-have an array of paid dating sites, including ones that are designated to a certain common denominator( like religion-based, or the sites catering to pet owners, equestrians, agricultural lifestyles, eco/"green" singles,etc).

So, IF there is some big new social trend for dating to be reserved for those that can "afford it", then a lot of people are going to need to embrace singlehood.Yeah, right- does anybody REALLY think that single people with "officially below poverty level" incomes are all going to voluntarily withdraw from the dating scene?

I do feel that those whose lives are currently unstable or in a major shambles(regardless of whose "fault" that is)
should put getting control/stability back as priority #1.
I think that creating a plan with marrying/forming co-habiting LTR as strategy for achieving that is a BAD idea for a variety of reasons. I also realize that many people will continue to pursue "relationship as financial salvation" planning. But, for the poster who posits that "all" women want someone to support/take care of them-my response is a hearty "bullsh*t"!
Cindy O
 mjinict
Joined: 8/13/2008
Msg: 247
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History
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 8:42:28 AM
True, but some women want a feeling of a little more 'security'. Nothing wrong with looking for that in a mate, as long as you're looking. And before someone shoots back with the 'I support myself, yadda yadda', look back at all the posts about how people are trying to rebuild after financial setbacks.

And I don't mean looking for one to fully 'financially support'....Though I had a profile on before I was laid off years ago, I didn't date while unemployed. I think it's important for self esteem to be self supporting while dating.
 pfif
Joined: 6/11/2012
Msg: 248
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 8:59:47 AM
I'm car-free (positive spin on: can't afford a car). Makes a big difference
in being able to pay all my bills, with a cushion. Also limits employment
opportunities. The smart money would be on relocation to a larger urban
hub's transit network, but I have family where I am, so I endure this. Living
near the grocery store helps, lots.

I almost never tap family for a car ride; getting serious about going car-free
was partially motivated by not wanting to put upon them for something I could
see another way to do. So the two bikes are set up for serious work, especially
hauling groceries and even laundry -- all year long.

Winter's a bit tricky. ;)

Xtracycle is one of the best ways to go, for this (I use something else, but a
friend rides one -- awesome).
 SSC-SAF
Joined: 5/20/2012
Msg: 249
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 9:14:27 AM
1 Timothy 6:10 - New International Version (©1984)
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

Not "money is the root of all evil"
Not "lack of money is the root of all evil"

It's the LOVE of money - while not bad in moderation, if it supersedes everything else such as the love of family, friends, etc. - it causes "many griefs".
 statemachine500
Joined: 8/25/2011
Msg: 250
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 10:46:18 AM

Baloney:

Poverty is no excuse for poor behavior...whether it's theft, dealing drugs or selling one's body. It's an insult to the hundreds of millions who have been or are poor and but still 'do the right thing' to get by in life.


So what would you have to say about rich people and poor behavior?


How often have you stood in line to get food for your children?



Zero. I'm sure however that the women I know would stand in line a thousand times before they'd sell their bodies. You might prefer to sell you body than stand in line but the women I know wouldn't.


Nice.Why are you commenting about what a person might consider in a moment of desperation for their children when it appears from your posts that you don't have any of your own?And I know what your profile says.
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