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Show ALL Forums  > Over 45  > Living on a shoestring budget      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 246
Living on a shoestring budgetPage 11 of 13    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13)
Whilst I previously posted a message requesting a course correction( return to actual topic), I do have to chime in here with some general info that I have heard, observed or know/knew to be fact at one point in time or another.

Many "safety net" systems, even "faith-based initiatives"!- have limits, restrictions, qualifications. Historically, the qualifications for and time limitations on "government" "safety nets" have varied and many of them do have cut-off
time frames.
I also live in a community where a woman and children could knock on just about any door and receive a bag of groceries...and a damn good thing because there are few men who have or would be willing to spend the price of a $5 whore!-there is still the very human tendency to judge those who seem unduly reliant on the "kindness of strangers" .

While I wholeheartedly support the concept of "give a person a fish and they will eat for a day, teach them to fish and they will eat for a lifetime'...WTF is anybody supposed to do when the waters hold very few fish? Consider 10-12 fisherpersons and one scrawny carp...well, you do the math. The miracle of the loaves and fishes is not a frequently occurring event!

Yes, despite various "safety nets" people/families can and do fall thru the mesh of said nets. And, as others have mentioned, there are factors such as pride( or fear of serious repercussions!) that can keep a person or family from seeking help from outside sources.
So I don't think any of us can make sweeping statements about what someone else OUGHT TO DO! All we can do is set a standard for ourselves as individuals.

To the OPs question posed in message#1

Yes, I'm certain that there are many PoF participants who are living with some pretty stringent financial constraints and those constraints are not always just the result of poor planning, laziness,improvidence.

Just as a general observation I would think that the truly monied folk aren't going to feel a need to participate in a free dating site with any level of seriousness.
Even those who don't want to go out and find dates "the old-fashioned way" or those who fear "being used for my money"-have an array of paid dating sites, including ones that are designated to a certain common denominator( like religion-based, or the sites catering to pet owners, equestrians, agricultural lifestyles, eco/"green" singles,etc).

So, IF there is some big new social trend for dating to be reserved for those that can "afford it", then a lot of people are going to need to embrace singlehood.Yeah, right- does anybody REALLY think that single people with "officially below poverty level" incomes are all going to voluntarily withdraw from the dating scene?

I do feel that those whose lives are currently unstable or in a major shambles(regardless of whose "fault" that is)
should put getting control/stability back as priority #1.
I think that creating a plan with marrying/forming co-habiting LTR as strategy for achieving that is a BAD idea for a variety of reasons. I also realize that many people will continue to pursue "relationship as financial salvation" planning. But, for the poster who posits that "all" women want someone to support/take care of them-my response is a hearty "bullsh*t"!
Cindy O
 mjinict
Joined: 8/13/2008
Msg: 247
view profile
History
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 8:42:28 AM
True, but some women want a feeling of a little more 'security'. Nothing wrong with looking for that in a mate, as long as you're looking. And before someone shoots back with the 'I support myself, yadda yadda', look back at all the posts about how people are trying to rebuild after financial setbacks.

And I don't mean looking for one to fully 'financially support'....Though I had a profile on before I was laid off years ago, I didn't date while unemployed. I think it's important for self esteem to be self supporting while dating.
 pfif
Joined: 6/11/2012
Msg: 248
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 8:59:47 AM
I'm car-free (positive spin on: can't afford a car). Makes a big difference
in being able to pay all my bills, with a cushion. Also limits employment
opportunities. The smart money would be on relocation to a larger urban
hub's transit network, but I have family where I am, so I endure this. Living
near the grocery store helps, lots.

I almost never tap family for a car ride; getting serious about going car-free
was partially motivated by not wanting to put upon them for something I could
see another way to do. So the two bikes are set up for serious work, especially
hauling groceries and even laundry -- all year long.

Winter's a bit tricky. ;)

Xtracycle is one of the best ways to go, for this (I use something else, but a
friend rides one -- awesome).
 SSC-SAF
Joined: 5/20/2012
Msg: 249
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 9:14:27 AM
1 Timothy 6:10 - New International Version (©1984)
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

Not "money is the root of all evil"
Not "lack of money is the root of all evil"

It's the LOVE of money - while not bad in moderation, if it supersedes everything else such as the love of family, friends, etc. - it causes "many griefs".
 statemachine500
Joined: 8/25/2011
Msg: 250
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 10:46:18 AM

Baloney:

Poverty is no excuse for poor behavior...whether it's theft, dealing drugs or selling one's body. It's an insult to the hundreds of millions who have been or are poor and but still 'do the right thing' to get by in life.


So what would you have to say about rich people and poor behavior?


How often have you stood in line to get food for your children?



Zero. I'm sure however that the women I know would stand in line a thousand times before they'd sell their bodies. You might prefer to sell you body than stand in line but the women I know wouldn't.


Nice.Why are you commenting about what a person might consider in a moment of desperation for their children when it appears from your posts that you don't have any of your own?And I know what your profile says.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 251
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 2:05:34 PM
Grandma Boo-Boo writes:
I also believe that for myself....Gwendolyn, and Wooby (and others), though they will have to either confirm or deny my own personal belief....I think that "hitting bottom" and having NO HELP.....NO WHERE to turn but to ourselves was in reality....a BLESSING!


Spot on! I learned more lessons from being down than I ever learned from being up. I learned to be self-sufficient and how to take care of myself. As I wrote before, my friends who lived in their cars went on to be successful women, spurred on by the necessity of keeping the wolf away from the door. I do not obsess about money, but the possibility of being homeless or not able to pay my bills is always in the back of my mind, so I take precautions to not go there.


Nice.Why are you commenting about what a person might consider in a moment of desperation for their children when it appears from your posts that you don't have any of your own?And I know what your profile says.


Statemachine, indeed! And to that I will add that not one of us knows what we will do when faced with certain types of adversity. I have heard many people say, "I would never do this or that," but when the reality of the situation came about, they changed their minds.
 larissan04
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 252
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 8:09:38 PM
gwendolyn~

"'The saying is actually "the LOVE of money is the root of all evil.' This changes the meaning of the cliche, eh?'"

i've heard many variations on the theme of money being the source of all the troubles in the world. and no, i don't think adding "the love of..." changes the meaning in any significant way... but it's really just arguing semantics...
 larissan04
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 253
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 8:26:57 PM
tarnished knight~

throughout history during times of war, it has been very common for women to turn to what is called "survival sex" in order to feed their children/families. under such circumstances, i could certainly understand a woman prostituting herself in order to survive. women are hardwired to take care of their kids NO MATTER WHAT...

as far as "the lack of money being the root of all evil" i think you are being too literal in interpretation. sure, it may motivate some people, but it often destroys many more. while we have a certain amount of economic freedom and political freedom in the US, and other places like Canada, there are many places around the world where there is just poverty and misery - and no easy way out without political solutions.
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 254
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 8:35:24 PM
Poverty is no excuse for poor behavior...whether it's theft, dealing drugs or selling one's body. It's an insult to the hundreds of millions who have been or are poor and but still 'do the right thing' to get by in life.

We Americans are whore ourselves in many ways when we work for someone. Whether that be a stripper, a prostitute, a paralegal or a server in a restaurant. Some whore their mental capacities, some whore their back doing manual labor and some whore their body in sex trades. I personally hold no ill will against those who provide sexual services to others. I do wish our government would legalize prostitution so those people would have to pay taxes like the rest of us, but it's nothing more, in my mind, than a way some make money. What I'm wondering? Who are you to deem what "the right thing" is for anyone but yourself?

Poor Americans I see on the news. etc. look far from starving to death. Exactly how many American children starve to death in the USa each year because of poverty?

Here ya go:

As many as 17 million children nationwide are struggling with what is known as food insecurity. To put it another way, one in four children in the country is living without consistent access to enough nutritious food to live a healthy life, according to the study, "Map the Meal Child Food Insecurity 2011."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/hunger_at_home/hunger-home-american-children-malnourished/story?id=14367230#.T_pN65GPxAM
And that is just ONE story out of thousands on just how hungry children are in the US alone. I don't know where you get the idea that there is not a serious poverty problem in the States. In case you didn't see it on your news? Our economy tanked and it's not getting better with time. I doubt many children die from starvation in our country ~ likely because they're Mothers are willing to do what it takes to feed their children at least enough to sustain life.

In my early childhood, there were times I was hungry and cold. Had it not been for the free lunch program at school, I may not have been able to eat lunch at school. Sometimes times are tough. I was never homeless, but I did not always have a fully tummy or heat in the winter. Like many others, I survived ~ it was no one's fault, it was just reality at that time in my life. Things turned around, I was a teenager in a middle-class home and those days were part of my past. But those times will never fade from my memory. Unless you've been there ~ you really shouldn't judge those who are there. JMO
 edgedreality
Joined: 4/5/2012
Msg: 255
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 9:16:15 PM

I do wish our government would legalize prostitution so those people would have to pay taxes like the rest of us,


Just like gay couples who get married should get taxed like married people. Articles written state prostitues do not want it legalized for that reason alone.

I know here prostitution is not illegal but the solicitation for money is. The real hypocrisy is police will arrest the "johns" (I've watched this happening from work) while the city collects business/licensing fees from escort services.
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 256
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 10:23:07 PM
Just like gay couples who get married should get taxed like married people.

Well of course gay and lesbian couples who marry should be taxed the same as other married couples. I think that's one of the benefits of marriage. Singles are taxed a whole lot more on personal income than married couples. It would only make sense should they marry, they get the benefits of a break on their taxes, just like hetero couples who marry.

I know here prostitution is not illegal but the solicitation for money is. The real hypocrisy is police will arrest the "johns" (I've watched this happening from work) while the city collects business/licensing fees from escort services.

So if the escorts were bartering vs. taking cash, it wouldn't be illegal??? I mean if she wants half a beef and her John is a butcher and he pays her in beef, then it wouldn't be solicitation? (I think I'm missing the hypocrisy you speak of. If someone is involved in an illegal act, isn't it only right they be arrested if caught? If solicitation of sex is illegal in your state and the John has, in fact, solicited, isn't that a crime?) And I guess I'm also missing why it's a problem the the escort services are paying for their licenses. Isn't that good for the community? Are they not contributing to the city/state by actually being a legally licensed business?
 soicat
Joined: 5/17/2012
Msg: 257
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/9/2012 9:31:40 AM

So if the escorts were bartering vs. taking cash, it wouldn't be illegal??? I mean if she wants half a beef and her John is a butcher and he pays her in beef, then it wouldn't be solicitation?


He lives in Canada. Prostitution isn't illegal here, however communication for the purpose of prostitution is, which is solicitation. I think he was speaking about men being busted on the street in undercover stings while escort services and their clients are able to legally do essentially the same thing.
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 258
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/9/2012 10:46:37 AM

EVERYONE.....go back to the original post.....PLEASE!

This forum has gone SO off topic. If "you" wish to make a certain point.....start your own thread.

And this ^^^ is on-topic? Some times I just LOVE the irony in here. Always good for a giggle or three. (Prostitution is on-topic. We're talking about what one will do when they don't have a shoe-string to their name.) JMO
 statemachine500
Joined: 8/25/2011
Msg: 259
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/9/2012 2:34:34 PM

The real hypocrisy is police will arrest the "johns" (I've watched this happening from work) while the city collects business/licensing fees from escort services.


They bust drug addicted girls and they go right back to work when released.They need cash or the pimp tells them them to get their ass out on the street.Simpler to bust customers that have something to lose.
 Sciencetreker
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 260
view profile
History
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/9/2012 3:08:22 PM
Statemachine: A friend who is a woman police officer told me that, despite romantic images to the contrary, 95% of hookers are run away girls who are or on their way to becoming drug junkies.

Common pattern...police get a call either from social services or the parents about a missing or runaway daughter. She could be underage or legal age. The only tool the police have to pick her up is on solicitation or some drug possession charge.. They hold her, contact the parents...perhaps can get her into a treatment regimen.

I'm not against legalized prostitution (solicitation) or legalization of some drugs ...BUT...then the police and social services will have been virtually stripped of the tools they have to help these very same young women. Those tools remove her, at least temporarily from her pimp, drugs, etc.

As for 'Johns' being picked up...tough. They are the lowest of the low exploiting young women at their most vulnerable.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 261
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/9/2012 7:21:35 PM

i've heard many variations on the theme of money being the source of all the troubles in the world. and no, i don't think adding "the love of..." changes the meaning in any significant way... but it's really just arguing semantics...


Then let me explain.

Money is a fact of life: we need money in order to survive. We have used currency for thousands of years. We cannot return to bartering or an agrarian way of life where we are self-sufficient in providing the things we need to merely stay alive--food and shelter being the prime "things."

So, we have a house, but we want a bigger house. We have a car, but we want one that goes faster. We want vacations.

We work harder in order to obtain money. Our family life might suffer, as might our health, but still, we quest after the almighty dollar.

Money isn't the problem; need isn't the problem, but the DESIRE to obtain more is the problem. Substitute "obsession" for love or "belongings" for money--then it becomes a matter of semantics.

Put other issues into the equation: the rich person who gets richer off the backs of the poor who work for him/her; the same rich person amasses money that he/she could never spend in one lifetime while children starve. Again, the money is not the problem: it is the LOVE of that money that is.

We all read about people who die and lived their lives as paupers, yet they had a million dollars in the back. People will sell out family, friends, and country for money.

Most of us want to acquire money for security and to buy what we want and need, but money is not the root of the "evil" associated with it: the obsessive love of money is the problem, and it is a purely human problem.

There, does that make it a bit clearer?

And as for the variations, this quote (as someone already pointed out) is Biblical, 1 Timothy 6 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
 statemachine500
Joined: 8/25/2011
Msg: 262
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/9/2012 7:24:05 PM

Statemachine: A friend who is a woman police officer told me that, despite romantic images to the contrary, 95% of hookers are run away girls who are or on their way to becoming drug junkies


They get "turned out"as young teens.I've seen how it happens up close.My daughter was a handful between 13 and 16.Ex gets a call from her that she and a friend are going to move to Van.I boot over to the place.My daughter and another girl are in the company of a guy about twice their age.I tell her what will likely happen if she goes to another city with this guy.He says nothing,biding his time.She leaves with me,the other stays.The other girl goes to Van and in a short while my daughter hears from her and she is working the streets,stoned on powder drugs.Pimps only recently started receiving increased penalties,I could never figure why the system went easy on them.
 Welsh474
Joined: 9/13/2010
Msg: 263
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/10/2012 10:12:38 AM
I think most mothers would do anything within their power to feed their children, including stealing or selling their body IF that was their last resort. I know I would. They are my children. And any man out there would do the same I'm thinking...we all do what we have to do at times. Not all of us are blessed with a great life at all times. Many are a paycheque away from....gawd knows what.

I've worked in coffee shops and sold shoes to pay for food. I'm sure many of us have struggled from time to time - it makes us stronger and makes us appreciate it when the food is plentiful.
 Tarnished_Knight
Joined: 3/5/2009
Msg: 264
view profile
History
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/10/2012 12:44:42 PM
Ms. Gwendolyn,

Well said.
Let me add a piece you might agree with that I struggle mightily with: do we own our possessions or do our possessions own (rule) us?

TK
[I'm waiting for someone to bring up the needle and camel parable.]
 Sciencetreker
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 265
view profile
History
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/10/2012 1:50:39 PM

I think most mothers would do anything within their power to feed their children, including stealing or selling their body IF that was their last resort


Agreed...but it's not the last resort in western societies. Tens of millions of poor mothers have children that don't starve to death...don't starve despite their mother never selling her bodies. Not sure who all these children are that have starved to death in the USA in the past decade....seems the poor are getting fatter. Kids in ghettos and Appalchia don't resemble sticks but rather waddling butterballs. Any woman who has a starving child has a mental disorder and social services sould step in and remove the child from the abusive environment.
 largo2
Joined: 12/13/2011
Msg: 266
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/10/2012 1:53:26 PM
Children don't starve to death, but families do live in shelters, which is a pretty hellish way to grow up. Overweight children in poverty are usually malnourished, and overweight due to substandard food, lack of fresh vegetables and fruit which are far more expensive than pasta .


Not sure how this thread evolved to this, but I am pretty sure we are off topic...
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 267
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/10/2012 3:07:24 PM

Ms. Gwendolyn,
Well said.
Let me add a piece you might agree with that I struggle mightily with: do we own our possessions or do our possessions own (rule) us?


That is up to the individual. When I left my ex, I put what would fit into the backseat and trunk of a Ford Contour and drove from Cali to Missouri; it was NOT a lot of stuff. When I rented an apartment and then a house, there was very little to fill either place. Three years later, I went back to Cali and got some of my "stuff." Over the years, I have accumulated a houseful of possessions.

But I KNOW that if I had to, I could walk away from them. I did it once and I could do it again. Hoarders are ruled by their possessions, but it is something within them that makes them hoard . . . it is a case of which comes first, the chicken or the egg, eh?


Kids in ghettos and Appalchia don't resemble sticks but rather waddling butterballs. Any woman who has a starving child has a mental disorder and social services sould step in and remove the child from the abusive environment.


You really have not been among the down and out, have you? When my friend and her two kids lived in her car, they might not have been starving, but they couldn't find a place to rent and motels eat money up quickly. Shelters turn people away. You cannot empathize because you cannot imagine yourself in that situation. I can.
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 268
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/10/2012 7:25:00 PM
When I was single after serving 4 years in the US Army Infantry, it didn't bother me to live in a tent during the summer months and save money for the winter. During the winter I rented a room till the snow melted. I had a place to shower daily, a ice chest for food, and a stove to cook it on. It was better than eating 'C' rats and sleeping in a foxhole. People would pay good money to go on a camping trip to the area I lived and I knew where I could camp for free. Sometimes homeless is a state of mind and even though I didn't have a house part of the year, I never thought of myself as homeless and I got to live in the beautiful Sierra Nevada mountains.
 DragonBits
Joined: 1/6/2012
Msg: 269
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/11/2012 9:40:47 AM

And I didn't want to tough it out being married working at Wal-Mart or the equivalent.

Boo-hoo. Some of us swallowed our pride and took what we could get at the moment.

AGREED!!! LOL! We didn't even have "Wal Marts" in my part of the country 36 years ago when I spent 4 months living in my car....with my 1 and 2 year old daughters. NOR, did we have "day care centers" and especially....we did NOT have "government subsidized child care" so from my 1 full and 2 part time jobs......I paid over 60% of my net income just to pay for a babysitter so that I COULD work. There were NO....I mean....NONE "food stamps" for anyone who was employed, regardless of how little they earned.

Over the years, I've taken a lot of criticism, stopped going to Baptist churches, and learned to ignore the negative and hatefully selfish opinions of those who feel they have the right to dictate HOW others "make it" though this life. When someone recognized that I was a "good worker" with gumption...and a good mechanical aptitude offered me the opportunity to take an apprenticeship test for a construction trade, I jumped at the CHANCE to WORK to give my children and myself a better life. I once commented (to someone who questioned WHY "a pretty woman" was willing to do such physically difficult and grossly dirty labor), that "For what they're paying me....I'd carry $hit on a teaspoon back and forth to Cleveland all day!"


DISAGREE, when you lived in your car 36 years ago, you were 23 years old. You can get hired as a 25 year old pipe fitter with no experience.

What are the odds of a 50 year old man getting hired as pipe fitter with no experience? It doesn't really matter what my mechanical aptitude or work ethic was, it's nearly impossible to competely change careers at 50 and get a job with having no experience that has a future. The best choice at that point is to become an entrepreneur. Poor choices is a menial job that I can hold till I am 62, then retire on SS. Or I could have moved to another part of the country and try to get back into Telecommucations, but I was already 3 years out of date when I decided to make a radical change, and high tech is like living dog years, 6 months out of date is Ok, more becomes a problem.

I checked working at "Wal Marts", but it is a big assumtion they would even hire me, because I saw several engineers working in grocery stores, they said it was very difficult to get those jobs. A lot of us were out of work in the same city at the same time, due to the Internet bust in 2000-2003. Because if you no experience with menial jobs, you are an older man, and you used to make 75,000, the store assumes as soon as that type of job opens up, you are out of there, or that you will have a bad attitude, or that you will not be healthy. It's more of a challenge than you think when you are 50+, but it is likely doable.

A menial job at age 50 is likely to remain a menial position at age 52, maybe I would still have my orginal 7,000 left, maybe not. And having that on my resume may win me points on PoF, but it would hurt me trying to get a high end engineering job. A low end job techical job, they hire young people for that.

What I did instead was take my $7,0oo stake and trade it up to $144,000, which would have never been possible working whatever job I could get. So I stared a new career in a situation where I can only fire myself. Fire myself is a trading joke, if you lose too much money you have fired yourself.

I have hit various types of bottoms before when I was in my 20s- 30s, and taken a low end humiliating job, but it does not work when you are past 50. Actually, I have hit several types of bottoms, from financial to emotional to work related at dfferent times. Hopefully I have covered enough of the bases to avoid any more drama in my life.
 tbicon
Joined: 5/6/2012
Msg: 270
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/11/2012 9:53:57 AM

What I did instead was take my $7,0oo stake and trade it up to $144,000, which would have never been possible working whatever job I could get.


I have sometimes thought about doing nothing but trading. I do trading part time, have made literal life fortunes and lost life fortunes doing so. I think to trade successfully on a regular basis it has to be a full time job. I have never been willing to give up my day job to do nothing but trade, yet at least.


A menial job at age 50 is likely to remain a menial position at age 52


I think people who do menial jobs are stuck doing menial jobs because they do not have the education or intelligence to do better. I simply disagree that even an older man can not get a good job if he has experience and is good at what he does. I know there is age discrimination in the market place, lots of it, but it usually hits those who really have no more to offer than the young have to offer. If you are good at what you do, bring something to the table, age should never stop you in the long run, imho. I can tell you that in my small business which requires administrative support it is really hard to find people who are good at what they do, who have intelligence, common sense, initiative . . the whole package, and if you find them you want them no matter what age they are. There are a huge number of people who don't want to work too hard for their pay checks or who don't want to make an effort to do what needs to be done.
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