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 Tarnished_Knight
Joined: 3/5/2009
Msg: 150
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Living on a shoestring budgetPage 7 of 13    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13)
Ms. larissan04 wrote:
i don't think money is the root of all evil, but rather, i think the lack of mney is the root of all evil. if you've ever been really broke and just scraping to survive, then yeah, you know how stressful and desperate life can be.


True, money is not the root of all evil, money is just a tool allowing individuals or groups to reach a particular end. It is the LOVE of money that causes the problems. Whether your love for money causes you to spend as if there was no tomorrow or hoard to the exclusion of all else, it is our relationship with this tool that can so influence how we relate to others.

Son's mom was a case in point. She followed her dad's example and tried to squeeze the last breath from each penny. To a degree that is good (i.e., I'm still driving the truck I bought in 2000: looks great, runs better, meets my needs - wish it got better mpg) but when squeezing a cent denies your partner pleasure, causes you to buy crap that doesn't last, and otherwise interferes with a life with others, you've wasted the blessings a tool like money can bring.
On the other hand I've known folk who have no concept of the value of money, esp. if it comes from others. Setting aside the profligate waste of most of our elected officials (Calif. [and then the Fed] approved spending billions of scarce taxpayer's earnings on high speed rail!!!) I am currently in the midst of extricating myself from a business situation in which the developer must have mistakingly thought he was Congress the way he was spending funds without sufficient due diligence and with little regard for the bottom line. My only chance of redemption is to take over the project and apply some common sense and fiscal stewardship.

Personally, I like people with money. They are the engine of the economy. As has been said many times in other venues, poor people do not create jobs. When I was poor I either did it myself or did without. I had very little to give to help others, and I certainly did not have the were with all to invest in opportunities that would provide others with jobs and would ultimately benefit others with fewer blessings.

One other area I disagree with Ms. l is her take that it's the lack of money is the root of all evil. When I was poor, in material wealth, my lack of funds did not cause me to commit crimes or other evil acts. Again, it is our relationship to material things (i.e., the love of money) that will cause us to sin against others. If it was the lack of money that causes evil acts then people like Mr. Madoff and other rich folk would not exist.

TK
 Tarnished_Knight
Joined: 3/5/2009
Msg: 151
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Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/7/2012 10:05:35 AM
Ms. luv,

It wasn't the lack of money that caused the woman to enter into a line of work I consider shameful, it was her lack of self respect.

There are plenty of other opportunities to put food on the table other than selling your body to the cheapest bidder. Her choice puts not only her health and welfare at risk it endangers her children.
We could go round and round on this issue, but people make their own decisions. Is it justified to steal bread to feed your family. Or stated another way, are permitted to impoverish others to elevate ourselves? My answer, of course, is NO! Yet it is this thinking that has fueled the ignominious slide of the United States into poverty.

By justifying one's poor behavior due to circumstances we demote our fellow travelers to less than animals with no morals.

Are there no churches? Are there no food banks? Are there no friends and families?
I don't know about you, but I give and/or assist all three. I hope and pray that others do too.

TK
 Giggles10000
Joined: 6/17/2011
Msg: 152
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/7/2012 10:47:48 AM

It wasn't the lack of money that caused the woman to enter into a line of work I consider shameful, it was her lack of self respect.

There are plenty of other opportunities to put food on the table other than selling your body to the cheapest bidder. Her choice puts not only her health and welfare at risk it endangers her children.
We could go round and round on this issue, but people make their own decisions. Is it justified to steal bread to feed your family. Or stated another way, are permitted to impoverish others to elevate ourselves? My answer, of course, is NO! Yet it is this thinking that has fueled the ignominious slide of the United States into poverty.

By justifying one's poor behavior due to circumstances we demote our fellow travelers to less than animals with no morals.

Are there no churches? Are there no food banks? Are there no friends and families?
I don't know about you, but I give and/or assist all three. I hope and pray that others do too.


How many food banks have you been to? How many churches? How often have you stood in line to get food for your children?

Until you have been there with hungry kids you have no clue what a mother will do to feed her kids--and yes I have done all of that--and no i didn't whore myself out--not much of a call for a bald slightly green tinted woman going thru chemo--assuming cause you give to a church or even better the American Cancer Society that the aid gets to those in need is just wrong to use as a base to JUDGE others.

Friends and family have to have more then you do to help you, don't they?--well one of the things about society is when a woman has difficulty at times she becomes isolated from her friends and family--I was living 4 hours away in a town I had only been in 3 years. The churches here were so great but yanno they had this thing that different churches would give out food certain days--in different parts of town--so you had to get there (gas isnt cheap) and then wait in line and hope that by the time it was your turn there was actually edible food left. So at times I had to have a 4 hour chemo session in the morning and then stand in line to get food for my kids when the doctor has said to go straight home and not expose myself to anyone for fear Id catch something since my immune system was so weak.

When I was going thru cancer--the American Cancer Society told me that the only amount of support they could give me was $75 toward my $100 electric bill and a wig that had never been styled--it was very nice to be in their building with their extremely rich looking furnishings and all the cars in the driveway were brand new and everyone walking around in their nice suits--that made the trip so worth while; knowing I had a day to come up with $25.00; so i took all my jewerly to a pawn shop--talk about someone stealing something!

Again people want to believe if you do everything right that nothing bad is going to happen to you--just because nothing bad has happened to some doesn't mean that others haven't had the bottom fall out of their world. I do not support the claim that women turn to selling their bodies to the cheapest bidder but as a mother I can understand why one might. I know I wouldn't ever consider judging someone for anything they did if they have reach that low of a point in life. --you consider shameful--you should feel the shame when you look in the mirror! She wasn't stealing bread, which is impoverish others to elevate--she was using the only thing she had left to provide for her kids. Keep looking at the world with your rose colored glasses and passing judgement on what is shameful -- and pray to god one day you never really need help.

I have never been so humbled as I was then; when random acts of kindness from strangers helped lift my life up--I still cry over what people did for me then--and I try to help as many people as I can--I dont give to organizations so the people working there can have a good life style I actively seek out those in need--you continue to feel so great about your giving when you have no clue that what you give ever gets to those who need it and keep on judging something you could never possibility understand.
 BLONDE_ANGEL845
Joined: 6/30/2012
Msg: 153
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/7/2012 11:36:16 AM
I had a friend once confide to me that when she was a limo driver, there was a regular customer- she said he was tiny, old & bald...and he hinted to her that he'd take her out to dinner, have sex in his hotel & give her $ She said she did it a few times as she was going thru a divorce (she is 10 years older than me, so the support laws were harder to enforce then) as she really needed the $$$

She cried & asked me if it made her a prostitute. I said no it made you a human being & a mother.
The guy was honest in what he offered her, IMO that is better than men or women who pretend to want a relationship when all they want is to get laid.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 154
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/7/2012 2:46:27 PM

i don't think money is the root of all evil,


The saying is actually "the LOVE of money is the root of all evil." This changes the meaning of the cliche, eh?


It wasn't the lack of money that caused the woman to enter into a line of work I consider shameful, it was her lack of self respect.



There are plenty of other opportunities to put food on the table other than selling your body to the cheapest bidder.


So, you know this because you have been a down and out woman who chose to enter into "shameful" work in spite of many other opportunities to feed her children? Yeah, fer sure—WHY would a woman take the “easy” way out and sell her body? I mean, when there are plenty of other opportunities, prostitution MUST be the easy option or why would she take it?

Don't judge those women until you walk a mile in their shoes.


Zero. I'm sure however that the women I know would stand in line a thousand times before they'd sell their bodies. You might prefer to sell you body than stand in line but the women I know wouldn't.


Judge not lest ye be so judged.

Some people would rather starve than accept charity—their pride is that great. As for churches and food banks—when my son’s house burned down, churches refused him help. As for food banks, the rural poor have a hard time reaching them.

I have never had it so bad that I needed to turn to prostitution, churches, or food banks, but I can say this: if the need arose, I would do what I needed to do to survive.

Decades ago, I remember sitting in a fast food restaurant that had a salad bar. A woman came in with about five kids, purchased one salad, and refilled the plate many times so that the kids could eat—she ate nothing. At the time, I thought it was scandalous that she would pay for ONE salad and take so much of the food.

After I had kids, I developed more compassion. Now, I know that she was doing what she felt she needed to do to feed her children. Regardless of what brought her to that spot in her life, it was/is NOT my place to judge her.

Giggles, I don’t always agree with what you say, but thank you for sharing your experience.


I must live in a nicer society. In my neighborhood if a woman with a child knocked on almost any door and said they were starving...they would leave with a bag of groceries. She wouldn't need to resort to selling her body, theft, etc.


Go to rural Missouri, old town Eureka, California, north side Springfield, Missouri, most urban locations . . . some people will help and some will turn their heads.

Better yet, go to China where parents give their babies drugs to make them appear to be ill, where they lame their kids to get more money when they beg, THEN condemn the mother who prostitutes herself to feed her kids instead of prostituting them.
 GrandmaBooBoo
Joined: 12/30/2006
Msg: 155
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Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 6:25:21 AM

And I didn't want to tough it out being married working at Wal-Mart or the equivalent.


Boo-hoo. Some of us swallowed our pride and took what we could get at the moment.


AGREED!!! LOL! We didn't even have "Wal Marts" in my part of the country 36 years ago when I spent 4 months living in my car....with my 1 and 2 year old daughters. NOR, did we have "day care centers" and especially....we did NOT have "government subsidized child care" so from my 1 full and 2 part time jobs......I paid over 60% of my net income just to pay for a babysitter so that I COULD work. There were NO....I mean....NONE "food stamps" for anyone who was employed, regardless of how little they earned.

Over the years, I've taken a lot of criticism, stopped going to Baptist churches, and learned to ignore the negative and hatefully selfish opinions of those who feel they have the right to dictate HOW others "make it" though this life. When someone recognized that I was a "good worker" with gumption...and a good mechanical aptitude offered me the opportunity to take an apprenticeship test for a construction trade, I jumped at the CHANCE to WORK to give my children and myself a better life. I once commented (to someone who questioned WHY "a pretty woman" was willing to do such physically difficult and grossly dirty labor), that "For what they're paying me....I'd carry $hit on a teaspoon back and forth to Cleveland all day!"

A LOT of people never get those "opportunities". Granted, there are those who DO get the opportunity, and turn their noses up at the thought of doing "menial" work, but I think that MANY people who end up "living on a shoestring budget" just literally have struggled their whole lives to get by and will continue to do so.

I also believe that for myself....Gwendolyn, and Wooby (and others), though they will have to either confirm or deny my own personal belief....I think that "hitting bottom" and having NO HELP.....NO WHERE to turn but to ourselves was in reality....a BLESSING! I think that IF, I had had even the "minimum" amount of "help" that I would have likely stayed in the "rut" of "just getting by". As hard as it is for me to think of allowing any family to be homeless and children to be hungry.....we must admit that SOMETIMES having no where else to turn works to an individuals advantage in the long term.

NOT everyone who is knocking on poverty's door is there because they were lazy or unmotivated and I thank God daily that I was blessed with a good mind and a strong body.
 Paderic
Joined: 2/23/2010
Msg: 156
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 7:07:23 AM
LOL, this thread is getting to be like reading The Grapes of Wrath.
 mjinict
Joined: 8/13/2008
Msg: 157
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Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 7:19:02 AM
That's quite an admirable story grandma, but I don't think I'd advocate a no safety net for living in a car with 2 toddlers.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 158
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 8:05:11 AM
Whilst I previously posted a message requesting a course correction( return to actual topic), I do have to chime in here with some general info that I have heard, observed or know/knew to be fact at one point in time or another.

Many "safety net" systems, even "faith-based initiatives"!- have limits, restrictions, qualifications. Historically, the qualifications for and time limitations on "government" "safety nets" have varied and many of them do have cut-off
time frames.
I also live in a community where a woman and children could knock on just about any door and receive a bag of groceries...and a damn good thing because there are few men who have or would be willing to spend the price of a $5 whore!-there is still the very human tendency to judge those who seem unduly reliant on the "kindness of strangers" .

While I wholeheartedly support the concept of "give a person a fish and they will eat for a day, teach them to fish and they will eat for a lifetime'...WTF is anybody supposed to do when the waters hold very few fish? Consider 10-12 fisherpersons and one scrawny carp...well, you do the math. The miracle of the loaves and fishes is not a frequently occurring event!

Yes, despite various "safety nets" people/families can and do fall thru the mesh of said nets. And, as others have mentioned, there are factors such as pride( or fear of serious repercussions!) that can keep a person or family from seeking help from outside sources.
So I don't think any of us can make sweeping statements about what someone else OUGHT TO DO! All we can do is set a standard for ourselves as individuals.

To the OPs question posed in message#1

Yes, I'm certain that there are many PoF participants who are living with some pretty stringent financial constraints and those constraints are not always just the result of poor planning, laziness,improvidence.

Just as a general observation I would think that the truly monied folk aren't going to feel a need to participate in a free dating site with any level of seriousness.
Even those who don't want to go out and find dates "the old-fashioned way" or those who fear "being used for my money"-have an array of paid dating sites, including ones that are designated to a certain common denominator( like religion-based, or the sites catering to pet owners, equestrians, agricultural lifestyles, eco/"green" singles,etc).

So, IF there is some big new social trend for dating to be reserved for those that can "afford it", then a lot of people are going to need to embrace singlehood.Yeah, right- does anybody REALLY think that single people with "officially below poverty level" incomes are all going to voluntarily withdraw from the dating scene?

I do feel that those whose lives are currently unstable or in a major shambles(regardless of whose "fault" that is)
should put getting control/stability back as priority #1.
I think that creating a plan with marrying/forming co-habiting LTR as strategy for achieving that is a BAD idea for a variety of reasons. I also realize that many people will continue to pursue "relationship as financial salvation" planning. But, for the poster who posits that "all" women want someone to support/take care of them-my response is a hearty "bullsh*t"!
Cindy O
 mjinict
Joined: 8/13/2008
Msg: 159
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Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 8:42:28 AM
True, but some women want a feeling of a little more 'security'. Nothing wrong with looking for that in a mate, as long as you're looking. And before someone shoots back with the 'I support myself, yadda yadda', look back at all the posts about how people are trying to rebuild after financial setbacks.

And I don't mean looking for one to fully 'financially support'....Though I had a profile on before I was laid off years ago, I didn't date while unemployed. I think it's important for self esteem to be self supporting while dating.
 SSC-SAF
Joined: 5/20/2012
Msg: 160
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 9:14:27 AM
1 Timothy 6:10 - New International Version (©1984)
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

Not "money is the root of all evil"
Not "lack of money is the root of all evil"

It's the LOVE of money - while not bad in moderation, if it supersedes everything else such as the love of family, friends, etc. - it causes "many griefs".
 statemachine500
Joined: 8/25/2011
Msg: 161
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 10:46:18 AM

Baloney:

Poverty is no excuse for poor behavior...whether it's theft, dealing drugs or selling one's body. It's an insult to the hundreds of millions who have been or are poor and but still 'do the right thing' to get by in life.


So what would you have to say about rich people and poor behavior?


How often have you stood in line to get food for your children?



Zero. I'm sure however that the women I know would stand in line a thousand times before they'd sell their bodies. You might prefer to sell you body than stand in line but the women I know wouldn't.


Nice.Why are you commenting about what a person might consider in a moment of desperation for their children when it appears from your posts that you don't have any of your own?And I know what your profile says.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 162
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 2:05:34 PM
Grandma Boo-Boo writes:
I also believe that for myself....Gwendolyn, and Wooby (and others), though they will have to either confirm or deny my own personal belief....I think that "hitting bottom" and having NO HELP.....NO WHERE to turn but to ourselves was in reality....a BLESSING!


Spot on! I learned more lessons from being down than I ever learned from being up. I learned to be self-sufficient and how to take care of myself. As I wrote before, my friends who lived in their cars went on to be successful women, spurred on by the necessity of keeping the wolf away from the door. I do not obsess about money, but the possibility of being homeless or not able to pay my bills is always in the back of my mind, so I take precautions to not go there.


Nice.Why are you commenting about what a person might consider in a moment of desperation for their children when it appears from your posts that you don't have any of your own?And I know what your profile says.


Statemachine, indeed! And to that I will add that not one of us knows what we will do when faced with certain types of adversity. I have heard many people say, "I would never do this or that," but when the reality of the situation came about, they changed their minds.
 larissan04
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 163
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 8:09:38 PM
gwendolyn~

"'The saying is actually "the LOVE of money is the root of all evil.' This changes the meaning of the cliche, eh?'"

i've heard many variations on the theme of money being the source of all the troubles in the world. and no, i don't think adding "the love of..." changes the meaning in any significant way... but it's really just arguing semantics...
 larissan04
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 164
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 8:26:57 PM
tarnished knight~

throughout history during times of war, it has been very common for women to turn to what is called "survival sex" in order to feed their children/families. under such circumstances, i could certainly understand a woman prostituting herself in order to survive. women are hardwired to take care of their kids NO MATTER WHAT...

as far as "the lack of money being the root of all evil" i think you are being too literal in interpretation. sure, it may motivate some people, but it often destroys many more. while we have a certain amount of economic freedom and political freedom in the US, and other places like Canada, there are many places around the world where there is just poverty and misery - and no easy way out without political solutions.
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 165
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 8:35:24 PM
Poverty is no excuse for poor behavior...whether it's theft, dealing drugs or selling one's body. It's an insult to the hundreds of millions who have been or are poor and but still 'do the right thing' to get by in life.

We Americans are whore ourselves in many ways when we work for someone. Whether that be a stripper, a prostitute, a paralegal or a server in a restaurant. Some whore their mental capacities, some whore their back doing manual labor and some whore their body in sex trades. I personally hold no ill will against those who provide sexual services to others. I do wish our government would legalize prostitution so those people would have to pay taxes like the rest of us, but it's nothing more, in my mind, than a way some make money. What I'm wondering? Who are you to deem what "the right thing" is for anyone but yourself?

Poor Americans I see on the news. etc. look far from starving to death. Exactly how many American children starve to death in the USa each year because of poverty?

Here ya go:

As many as 17 million children nationwide are struggling with what is known as food insecurity. To put it another way, one in four children in the country is living without consistent access to enough nutritious food to live a healthy life, according to the study, "Map the Meal Child Food Insecurity 2011."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/hunger_at_home/hunger-home-american-children-malnourished/story?id=14367230#.T_pN65GPxAM
And that is just ONE story out of thousands on just how hungry children are in the US alone. I don't know where you get the idea that there is not a serious poverty problem in the States. In case you didn't see it on your news? Our economy tanked and it's not getting better with time. I doubt many children die from starvation in our country ~ likely because they're Mothers are willing to do what it takes to feed their children at least enough to sustain life.

In my early childhood, there were times I was hungry and cold. Had it not been for the free lunch program at school, I may not have been able to eat lunch at school. Sometimes times are tough. I was never homeless, but I did not always have a fully tummy or heat in the winter. Like many others, I survived ~ it was no one's fault, it was just reality at that time in my life. Things turned around, I was a teenager in a middle-class home and those days were part of my past. But those times will never fade from my memory. Unless you've been there ~ you really shouldn't judge those who are there. JMO
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 166
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/8/2012 10:23:07 PM
Just like gay couples who get married should get taxed like married people.

Well of course gay and lesbian couples who marry should be taxed the same as other married couples. I think that's one of the benefits of marriage. Singles are taxed a whole lot more on personal income than married couples. It would only make sense should they marry, they get the benefits of a break on their taxes, just like hetero couples who marry.

I know here prostitution is not illegal but the solicitation for money is. The real hypocrisy is police will arrest the "johns" (I've watched this happening from work) while the city collects business/licensing fees from escort services.

So if the escorts were bartering vs. taking cash, it wouldn't be illegal??? I mean if she wants half a beef and her John is a butcher and he pays her in beef, then it wouldn't be solicitation? (I think I'm missing the hypocrisy you speak of. If someone is involved in an illegal act, isn't it only right they be arrested if caught? If solicitation of sex is illegal in your state and the John has, in fact, solicited, isn't that a crime?) And I guess I'm also missing why it's a problem the the escort services are paying for their licenses. Isn't that good for the community? Are they not contributing to the city/state by actually being a legally licensed business?
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 167
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/9/2012 10:46:37 AM

EVERYONE.....go back to the original post.....PLEASE!

This forum has gone SO off topic. If "you" wish to make a certain point.....start your own thread.

And this ^^^ is on-topic? Some times I just LOVE the irony in here. Always good for a giggle or three. (Prostitution is on-topic. We're talking about what one will do when they don't have a shoe-string to their name.) JMO
 statemachine500
Joined: 8/25/2011
Msg: 168
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/9/2012 2:34:34 PM

The real hypocrisy is police will arrest the "johns" (I've watched this happening from work) while the city collects business/licensing fees from escort services.


They bust drug addicted girls and they go right back to work when released.They need cash or the pimp tells them them to get their ass out on the street.Simpler to bust customers that have something to lose.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 169
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/9/2012 7:21:35 PM

i've heard many variations on the theme of money being the source of all the troubles in the world. and no, i don't think adding "the love of..." changes the meaning in any significant way... but it's really just arguing semantics...


Then let me explain.

Money is a fact of life: we need money in order to survive. We have used currency for thousands of years. We cannot return to bartering or an agrarian way of life where we are self-sufficient in providing the things we need to merely stay alive--food and shelter being the prime "things."

So, we have a house, but we want a bigger house. We have a car, but we want one that goes faster. We want vacations.

We work harder in order to obtain money. Our family life might suffer, as might our health, but still, we quest after the almighty dollar.

Money isn't the problem; need isn't the problem, but the DESIRE to obtain more is the problem. Substitute "obsession" for love or "belongings" for money--then it becomes a matter of semantics.

Put other issues into the equation: the rich person who gets richer off the backs of the poor who work for him/her; the same rich person amasses money that he/she could never spend in one lifetime while children starve. Again, the money is not the problem: it is the LOVE of that money that is.

We all read about people who die and lived their lives as paupers, yet they had a million dollars in the back. People will sell out family, friends, and country for money.

Most of us want to acquire money for security and to buy what we want and need, but money is not the root of the "evil" associated with it: the obsessive love of money is the problem, and it is a purely human problem.

There, does that make it a bit clearer?

And as for the variations, this quote (as someone already pointed out) is Biblical, 1 Timothy 6 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
 statemachine500
Joined: 8/25/2011
Msg: 170
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/9/2012 7:24:05 PM

Statemachine: A friend who is a woman police officer told me that, despite romantic images to the contrary, 95% of hookers are run away girls who are or on their way to becoming drug junkies


They get "turned out"as young teens.I've seen how it happens up close.My daughter was a handful between 13 and 16.Ex gets a call from her that she and a friend are going to move to Van.I boot over to the place.My daughter and another girl are in the company of a guy about twice their age.I tell her what will likely happen if she goes to another city with this guy.He says nothing,biding his time.She leaves with me,the other stays.The other girl goes to Van and in a short while my daughter hears from her and she is working the streets,stoned on powder drugs.Pimps only recently started receiving increased penalties,I could never figure why the system went easy on them.
 Tarnished_Knight
Joined: 3/5/2009
Msg: 171
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History
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/10/2012 12:44:42 PM
Ms. Gwendolyn,

Well said.
Let me add a piece you might agree with that I struggle mightily with: do we own our possessions or do our possessions own (rule) us?

TK
[I'm waiting for someone to bring up the needle and camel parable.]
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 172
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/10/2012 3:07:24 PM

Ms. Gwendolyn,
Well said.
Let me add a piece you might agree with that I struggle mightily with: do we own our possessions or do our possessions own (rule) us?


That is up to the individual. When I left my ex, I put what would fit into the backseat and trunk of a Ford Contour and drove from Cali to Missouri; it was NOT a lot of stuff. When I rented an apartment and then a house, there was very little to fill either place. Three years later, I went back to Cali and got some of my "stuff." Over the years, I have accumulated a houseful of possessions.

But I KNOW that if I had to, I could walk away from them. I did it once and I could do it again. Hoarders are ruled by their possessions, but it is something within them that makes them hoard . . . it is a case of which comes first, the chicken or the egg, eh?


Kids in ghettos and Appalchia don't resemble sticks but rather waddling butterballs. Any woman who has a starving child has a mental disorder and social services sould step in and remove the child from the abusive environment.


You really have not been among the down and out, have you? When my friend and her two kids lived in her car, they might not have been starving, but they couldn't find a place to rent and motels eat money up quickly. Shelters turn people away. You cannot empathize because you cannot imagine yourself in that situation. I can.
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 173
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/10/2012 7:25:00 PM
When I was single after serving 4 years in the US Army Infantry, it didn't bother me to live in a tent during the summer months and save money for the winter. During the winter I rented a room till the snow melted. I had a place to shower daily, a ice chest for food, and a stove to cook it on. It was better than eating 'C' rats and sleeping in a foxhole. People would pay good money to go on a camping trip to the area I lived and I knew where I could camp for free. Sometimes homeless is a state of mind and even though I didn't have a house part of the year, I never thought of myself as homeless and I got to live in the beautiful Sierra Nevada mountains.
 DragonBits
Joined: 1/6/2012
Msg: 174
Living on a shoestring budget
Posted: 7/11/2012 9:40:47 AM

And I didn't want to tough it out being married working at Wal-Mart or the equivalent.

Boo-hoo. Some of us swallowed our pride and took what we could get at the moment.

AGREED!!! LOL! We didn't even have "Wal Marts" in my part of the country 36 years ago when I spent 4 months living in my car....with my 1 and 2 year old daughters. NOR, did we have "day care centers" and especially....we did NOT have "government subsidized child care" so from my 1 full and 2 part time jobs......I paid over 60% of my net income just to pay for a babysitter so that I COULD work. There were NO....I mean....NONE "food stamps" for anyone who was employed, regardless of how little they earned.

Over the years, I've taken a lot of criticism, stopped going to Baptist churches, and learned to ignore the negative and hatefully selfish opinions of those who feel they have the right to dictate HOW others "make it" though this life. When someone recognized that I was a "good worker" with gumption...and a good mechanical aptitude offered me the opportunity to take an apprenticeship test for a construction trade, I jumped at the CHANCE to WORK to give my children and myself a better life. I once commented (to someone who questioned WHY "a pretty woman" was willing to do such physically difficult and grossly dirty labor), that "For what they're paying me....I'd carry $hit on a teaspoon back and forth to Cleveland all day!"


DISAGREE, when you lived in your car 36 years ago, you were 23 years old. You can get hired as a 25 year old pipe fitter with no experience.

What are the odds of a 50 year old man getting hired as pipe fitter with no experience? It doesn't really matter what my mechanical aptitude or work ethic was, it's nearly impossible to competely change careers at 50 and get a job with having no experience that has a future. The best choice at that point is to become an entrepreneur. Poor choices is a menial job that I can hold till I am 62, then retire on SS. Or I could have moved to another part of the country and try to get back into Telecommucations, but I was already 3 years out of date when I decided to make a radical change, and high tech is like living dog years, 6 months out of date is Ok, more becomes a problem.

I checked working at "Wal Marts", but it is a big assumtion they would even hire me, because I saw several engineers working in grocery stores, they said it was very difficult to get those jobs. A lot of us were out of work in the same city at the same time, due to the Internet bust in 2000-2003. Because if you no experience with menial jobs, you are an older man, and you used to make 75,000, the store assumes as soon as that type of job opens up, you are out of there, or that you will have a bad attitude, or that you will not be healthy. It's more of a challenge than you think when you are 50+, but it is likely doable.

A menial job at age 50 is likely to remain a menial position at age 52, maybe I would still have my orginal 7,000 left, maybe not. And having that on my resume may win me points on PoF, but it would hurt me trying to get a high end engineering job. A low end job techical job, they hire young people for that.

What I did instead was take my $7,0oo stake and trade it up to $144,000, which would have never been possible working whatever job I could get. So I stared a new career in a situation where I can only fire myself. Fire myself is a trading joke, if you lose too much money you have fired yourself.

I have hit various types of bottoms before when I was in my 20s- 30s, and taken a low end humiliating job, but it does not work when you are past 50. Actually, I have hit several types of bottoms, from financial to emotional to work related at dfferent times. Hopefully I have covered enough of the bases to avoid any more drama in my life.
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