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 GuessWhat1964
Joined: 4/15/2012
Msg: 51
Are you a racist ? Page 3 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
qldblue wrote:


What ever happened to the concept of innocent until proven guilty?


You are assuming that all nations have the Westminster System of law. They do not. The countries these people come from have civil or Sharia law. They wouldn't undertand the concept of "innocent until proven guilty." If they did they wouldn't destroy their documents.

People who have nothing to hide....hide nothing.

These are not "poor" refugees. They are rich refugees who buy their way up the que. The poor ones are left at the bottom of the pile by well meaning yet ill informed do-gooders.

I know that most of you POF forum posters are really decent and well meaning people. You wan't to give everyone a fair go. That is really good to hear. But please be aware that the people who don't get the media headlines are the ones doing the right thing, and you are not giving them a fair go at all. They are left behind because they chose the legal and right way of doing it.

In ten years time...maybe twenty...the race riots of South Central L.A. will be held in central Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane etc. The Cronulla riots were a taste of things to come. Google race riots in France. All the warning signs are there.

I think this thread is a pressure release valve. There aren't many places now where you can express your opinion in Australia without being persecuted by the law. In Europe and the USA, you recieve a mandatory jail term for asking about the Holocaust. Imagine recieving a mandatory jail term in Australia for asking how many children were effected by the "Stolen Generation" process of resettlement.


But this thread has gotten away from the topic.


I disagree that the thread has gone off track. Different people answer the question in different ways. We are all different, and differences must be celebrated....remember?
 greyingred
Joined: 6/12/2008
Msg: 52
view profile
History
Are you a racist ?
Posted: 6/28/2012 10:39:34 AM
somewhere on the net is a psyche test that tries to discern racist attitudes. It gives you a load of mug shots and tells you to press one key or another for black or white. I found it interesting that many of the faces were neither, i.e. mexican, indian, middle eastern. It appeared that I was not racist at all but then I chose to be pedantic by not lumping all others as black. Racism comes in all forms, I have often encountered the joyous title of "effing Pom", mainly from the ageing population and bogans (yup seems I am guilty of judgemental seperatism) apparently if I complain, it is not racist and I am being a sook. Add being a redhead to it...well open slather for d8ckheads. I am not in general racist but I do have issues with certain cultures including or maybe especially my own.


These are not "poor" refugees. They are rich refugees who buy their way up the que. The poor ones are left at the bottom of the pile by well meaning yet ill informed do-gooders.


Some are and some aren't, many have sold all they have. I have a vietnamese friend who came over via boat in the early 80's, her parents are still illiterate (so heaps of money there not), the children all four of them are successful and quite wealthy nowadays and so are the parents, owning one of the largest strawberry farms in WA....hard hard work and they deserve their success in many ways more so than the true blue occers. Another Afganistan friend lost his jewellery business overnight, saw his neighbour shot in his own shop and that night fled the country, his wife and children are still in Pakistan which is not much better. He is working up north as a kitchen hand FGS!!!! My admiration for this privileged highly educated man who shows more bravery and true grit is beyond description and all I hope is that one day I get to meet his family.


But this thread has gotten away from the topic
Yup what is that rule of thumb in specious arguements, if the thread hits nazism within the first few post, the whole debate is scuppered.

Wow Pooks, you never cease the amaze me....what a rich tapestry you were made from.
 Pookiessooverperth
Joined: 1/23/2012
Msg: 53
Are you a racist ?
Posted: 6/28/2012 7:40:51 PM
Ah greyingred....your gorgeous...but Im sure when you read my FB posts you know that I still spend most Saturday nites home alone... cést la vie.........lol.......but your incredible artistic talents (not to mention your interior decorating skills with your clever eye...) never cease to amaze me either....!!! not to mention your incredibly witty observations of the world (oh yes I read ALL of your FB posts as well) xx...........


But this thread has gotten away from the topic - unquote....

Apart from myself and another poster whose name I cant see at present...... did anyone actually answered the OPs question which was

"Are you a racist"

In fact did the OP even answer it ?
 MrsNaamah
Joined: 11/8/2011
Msg: 54
Are you a racist ?
Posted: 6/28/2012 9:33:20 PM
I would never suggest that we are obliged to forget the past when there is clearly much to be learned from it, and of course, memories can mean so much. But I do wonder about the value to the present when recollection of the past is used to awaken fresh outrage, sustain division, or motivate retaliation. Like someone else said…one planet, and we’re all kind stuck with each other.

Without meaning to give the impression that I don’t care about my family (I do; I love that crazy bunch) I’d have to say that I’ve just never really got a grasp on why so many people seem to carry so much ancestral pain. My parents’ life, and my grandparents’ life, and my great grandparents’ life were theirs. Not mine. Not that I’m not interested in their lives and times or their stories… and not that certain of them I know/knew well in my lifetime didn’t have some influence on me… and not that I don’t ever talk about them or their stories. It’s moreso that I feel no ownership of their past. Their origins are not my origins. Their stories are not my stories. Their times are not my times. Their opinions are not my opinions. So I carry no grudges on their behalf. I know one of my grandfathers hated an entire race because of what happened to his nephews…and I empathise that his views were formed through pain and loss and a sense of injustice…but I don’t feel resentment on his behalf nor see any need to keep that particular story alive. What would doing so achieve? He was one of my best mates and I still miss him like crazy, but that …well it was his sh1t to deal with and it died with him. I love him but don’t feel a need to prove it by becoming a vehicle for his resentment. I am not here to keep my ancestor’s resentments alive for them. Nor their religions, nor their cultures. I might have their genes, but my mind is my own.

I have a newspaper clipping that I just love. It’s a wedding announcement, sent to me by someone else who knows the background story. I have no idea whether the happy couple even know about this or not because it was before their time, but the abridged version of the background story is that his grandfather once tried to shoot her father. If they don’t know…that’s awesome. If they do know…that’s awesome. I keep this clipping (on a cluttered pinboard that holds all manner of eclectic things, ie, lots of cr@p) because it reminds me that life is exquisitely unpredictable sometimes. And in context of this stuff, I think it illustrates that regardless of what has gone before, each generation gets to choose their path. So in conclusion I think Pookie and Guesswhat should get married.


I care about the 170 people drowning, not the clowns in parliament.

Absolutely. Acting to avert current tragedy and current inhumanity towards each other would be a fine thing. And it definitely sullies that concept of ‘all we want is a peaceful life, with Christmas parties, and easter bonnets, and the simplicity of our childhood’ if achieving that somehow involves just letting other human beings drown.
 Pookiessooverperth
Joined: 1/23/2012
Msg: 55
Are you a racist ?
Posted: 6/28/2012 11:49:08 PM
As per usual, a beautiful, eloquent and insiteful post by Mrs Naamah.......

POF so need a like/love button ^^^^^^^^


I think Pookie and Guesswhat should get married


And honey....your still one of the funniest chicks that I know....guess thats why your on my FB list.....xx
 qldblue
Joined: 2/4/2009
Msg: 56
Are you a racist ?
Posted: 6/29/2012 12:29:23 AM
The question posed was and is " Are you a racist?".

It isn't a question whether I like what illegal immigrants are doing or not doing.

Stating your views about the doings of others is fair comment in the right situation but not under the question posed therefore the defence of or the support of actions carried out by others isn't answering the question as put.

As Naamah said in her post about her family in regards to her parents and her grandparents lives, that was their lives not hers.

A person can dislike the actions of others but not necessary dislike that race.
I can dislike the actions of what the so called refugees are doing but I do not dislike the race of people they belong too.

To dislike the "refugees as a race of people for their actions can be applied in principle to the Germans, Japanese, Italians, Kenyans, Ugandians and any other nationality that has committed acts of murder, robberies, etc against another race.

Racism is the belief that differences in the characteristics of a racial group justifies discrimination of that group.

So to answer the question as put, No I am not a racist.

However I do not believe that the actions of a minority group encompasses the entire race of any group.

If the actions of people smugglers and the actions of illegal immigrants is the topic of this thread then it should have been titled as such.
 Pookiessooverperth
Joined: 1/23/2012
Msg: 57
Are you a racist ?
Posted: 6/29/2012 12:47:52 AM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Qld Blue


We soooooooooooooooooooo need a like button !!!
 GuessWhat1964
Joined: 4/15/2012
Msg: 58
Are you a racist ?
Posted: 6/29/2012 2:14:02 AM
greyingred wrote:


Another Afganistan friend lost his jewellery business overnight, saw his neighbour shot in his own shop and that night fled the country, his wife and children are still in Pakistan which is not much better. He is working up north as a kitchen hand FGS!!!! My admiration for this privileged highly educated man who shows more bravery and true grit is beyond description and all I hope is that one day I get to meet his family.


When I read this I was baffled. This Afgan friend of yours left his family in a hostile country and ran to Australia for his own safety? And you refer to him as showing bravery and true grit...and beyond description. Are you serious?

I could write volumes about this...literally volumes. But I won't. I'll just write this one simple sentence:

I would die before I would abandon my family !

No more needs to be said.
 greyingred
Joined: 6/12/2008
Msg: 59
view profile
History
Are you a racist ?
Posted: 7/2/2012 7:50:47 PM
sheesh!!!!!!!!!!!! His family are relatively safe for the moment in Pakistan but if you read newspapers you would realise that Pakistan is not much better. Such an emotive word abandoned, especially when misused by persons who chose to always find something no matter how small and trivial to gain some specious superiority and browney points. Well done.

Don't suppose we could use those boats to float some bigots off this island? I mean for sake of recycling etc and fair trade et al.
 kmac6
Joined: 1/20/2008
Msg: 60
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History
Are you a racist ?
Posted: 7/2/2012 10:01:37 PM
^^^^ he he he he he he he .....
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 3/30/2010
Msg: 61
Are you a racist ?
Posted: 7/2/2012 10:24:52 PM

Don't suppose we could use those boats to float some bigots off this island? I mean for sake of recycling etc and fair trade et al.


How can one be a bigot if they hold suspicions over people behaving suspiciously? As for paying 5 times or so the price to come here the illegal way while using this as a loophole to destroy their documentation? What do they have to hide?

If they have no proof of being legit refugees BECAUSE they choose to destroy their proof as for choosing the loophole as an excuse to destroy whatever proof they had, this does not make one a bigot to think that these people are full of shit.

Nothing is stopping them from getting a plane here (which cost them a laughable amount of money less in doing so) and handing their documentation to the authorities.

The lefty do gooders we have in this society can be so hilariously gullible
 Pookiessooverperth
Joined: 1/23/2012
Msg: 62
Are you a racist ?
Posted: 7/3/2012 4:45:46 AM

Such an emotive word abandoned, especially when misused by persons who chose to always find something no matter how small and trivial to gain some specious superiority and browney points. Well done.

Don't suppose we could use those boats to float some bigots off this island? I mean for sake of recycling etc and fair trade et al.


And honey....your still one of the classiest chicks that I know....guess thats why your on my FB list.....xx
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 3/30/2010
Msg: 63
Are you a racist ?
Posted: 7/3/2012 9:13:30 PM
Another boat load of beggars sends distress signal. This time it was approximately 50 nautical miles south of Indonesia.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/asylum-seeker-boat-near-indonesia-sends-distress-signal/story-fncynkc6-1226416359396

What baffles me is why should this be the Australian Navy's responsibility to rescue these scamming beggars?

This is clearly an upgraded scam which they've done 3 times now. . The Indonesian government want nothing to do with it. Their Customs and police would most probably be in on the scam too.

Ask yourself, why are we giving them 4 Hercules plus the coastal naval craft from an earlier gift if they're not going to use them?

Gillard said that meeting with Bambang was a great success, but that's not how the nation's media see it. Even their beloved Canberra Times is less than impressed.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/opinion/political-news/indonesia-talks-sink-new-hope-on-boats-20120703-21flq.html

We're being bullshitted again!
 qldblue
Joined: 2/4/2009
Msg: 64
Are you a racist ?
Posted: 7/4/2012 12:59:59 AM
As signaturees to the SOLAS treaty as are many other countries we have agreed to respond to all distress calls if we have ships close to the position of the vessel in distress.

Just as we did for an english sailor who had his yacht capsized by a wave in a around the world yacht race a few years ago.

This all came about from the sinking of the Titanic all those years ago.
 Hilly02
Joined: 10/7/2011
Msg: 65
Are you a racist ?
Posted: 7/4/2012 1:30:40 AM
I have to agree to some extent. I think we could be about to see a whole new plan by the smugglers. Send out a distress signal and you will be rescued by the Aussies and get exactly what you wanted all along. I don't see leaving people to drown in the sea as an option. However, I do wonder how much more interested in finding a solution Indonesia would be, if we reduced their foreign aid each year by the amount it costs us to orchestrate all these rescues and process all these people. I reckon they would suddenly become a lot more helpful!
 Tah,
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 66
Are you a racist ?
Posted: 7/4/2012 3:46:05 AM
In 1940 the Australian 21st brigade 2nd AIF of kokoda fame and elements of the british eight army ejected forcefully the french forighn legion from syria. Imagine if the french won and marched into palestine and the jewish elements that had 30 or so years earlier left persecution in Russia for a new home in palestine ,had sought refuge in Germany?

Thats probably one way of describing why we have more boats under labor than liberal. Alot of the refugees come from war zones Howard/bush/blair created and obama/gillard are trying to gracefully elequently and subtly get out off...

Its kinda ironic that Afgans are trekking to Iran to get away from americans to get to Australia...Iraqi's are probably still trekking to syria like millions before them have since we invaded the place for no reason in 2003.

news today rekons drought conditions are forming, some reports rekon it could be worse than the last one that lead some serious serious issues and deeply questioned our sustainabilty. Lots of suicides and lots and lots of dollars on de sal plants and bush fires, emergency management, diseases.....The river Murray.........so on , HAARP!

I understand residents of christchurch are filtering in here after the earthquakes, i understand that they are not exactly without options or skills to live a existence in thier own country...I wouldn't call them cue jumpers, that would be an understatement.....but i'd hesitate to say white australia policy still lives on...They don't face religous or racial persucution or fleeing a war zone and/or mass poverty/famine.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 67
view profile
History
Are you a racist ?
Posted: 7/4/2012 5:02:59 AM
Is that U tah? Been walkabout or something?

I mostly agree except for this bit:


Iraqi's are probably still trekking to syria like millions before them have since we invaded the place for no reason in 2003


No reason? What about all that beautiful oil... I mean... WMDs?
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 3/30/2010
Msg: 68
Are you a racist ?
Posted: 7/4/2012 5:30:36 AM

Its kinda ironic that Afgans are trekking to Iran to get away from americans to get to Australia...Iraqi's are probably still trekking to syria like millions before them have since we invaded the place for no reason in 2003.


The UNHCR doesn't heap criticism on Iran for deporting 900,000 Afghans last year, even giving them $150 each to leave, but expects Australia to take them all in.

http://tolonews.com/en/afghanistan/4730-iran-to-deport-900000-afghan-refugees

Where are we expected to house and employ these people? If we send them to work the mines in West Australia or Queensland we'll be accused of 'forced labour'.


They don't face religous or racial persucution or fleeing a war zone and/or mass poverty/famine


Neither do many to most boat people. That's why they choose to come the illegal way as a loophole to destroy evidence of who they are and where they really came from. That way, they can lie through their teeth. If they had nothing to hide, they wouldn't be doing this.

It's funny how they can afford all this money to come on a dangerous leaky boat when they could be paying far less on the comfort of an plane.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 69
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History
Are you a racist ?
Posted: 7/4/2012 6:38:01 AM

The UNHCR doesn't heap criticism on Iran for deporting 900,000 Afghans last year, even giving them $150 each to leave, but expects Australia to take them all in.


It's a bit easier when it is just moving back over the border. The UNHCR giving a small assistance/incentive to refugees returning home to the rubble is something you should be cheering about based on your apparent desire to prevent the toothy liars coming here.


Where are we expected to house and employ these people? If we send them to work the mines in West Australia or Queensland we'll be accused of 'forced labour'.


We aren't expected to do anything with them. Some of us could choose to help new arrivals get settled, but there is no reason you should have to if you don't want to.


That's why they choose to come the illegal way as a loophole to destroy evidence of who they are and where they really came from. That way, they can lie through their teeth. If they had nothing to hide, they wouldn't be doing this.


Lying, desperate, mis-informed. Who knows what proportion is the mix? At what proportion of liars does it become more moral to stop responding to distress signals and let them drown? 1% liars? 50%? 99%?
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 3/30/2010
Msg: 70
Are you a racist ?
Posted: 7/4/2012 5:14:41 PM

It's a bit easier when it is just moving back over the border. The UNHCR giving a small assistance/incentive to refugees returning home to the rubble is something you should be cheering about based on your apparent desire to prevent the toothy liars coming here.


The fact of the matter is that Iran isn't criticised for deporting illegals but Australia is. Even Iran would be a much more suited society for most of these people as it's islamic.


We aren't expected to do anything with them.


So if they rock up here on a boat, people like you and the rest of the lefty crowd aren't going to expect Australia to allow them in and start giving them more benefits than what legit aussie citizens get?


At what proportion of liars does it become more moral to stop responding to distress signals and let them drown?


Why so blithely accept people who destroy their passports? That should make most reasonable people very suspicious.

Then there is this thing called emotional blackmail to unfairly and unjustly force a country to do things that they really shouldn't have responsibility for.

Why is all this expected on Australia while you seem all fine with Indonesia doing little to nothing about it? This is in their waters, 50 nautical miles south of Indonesia, to be exact. Yet, Australia is suckered into taking responsibility for it due to emotional blackmail games.

Australia is getting scammed and suckered left, right and centre due to our humanitarian values from boat people and the Indonesian authorities.

We're being ****ed over big time!

We need to toughen up and stop being so soft on these people who obviously just want to cheat us and use us. These people obviously have no respect for us.

So many other countries think nothing of turning back unwanted illegal entrants. Even the US used to turn back the Cubans unless they could actually jump off the boats and touch the beach. Why is it only a problem when Australia does the same?

If we keep being a soft touch and go way over board with this humanitarian crap, people will keep taking advantage of us and suck it out of us like vampires.

People around the world would be laughing at Australia as they know that we are just a push over and can be manipulated into such. Anyone can just keep rocking up daily on a boat and make up some sad story without any proof/documentation. Then get things handed to them on a silver platter such like free housing, free utilities, free decent food etc etc.

It's beyond ridiculous.

Many of these illegals have most probably never heard a shot fired in anger. They're economic queue jumpers who have been fed the mantra, to suit the requirements for the kind of govt. we currently have.

Their snakehead handlers are very shrewd manipulators of the political zeitgeist both here and in Indonesia. They well know that the Indons are devious and corrupt and only interested in clearing their own detention facilities which Australia is largely contributing to.

Australia and Indonesia are subtlely complicit in this because everyone knows that it's 'target Australia' that counts! They're both just looking for means to make it all politically palatable to the voters.

The new illegals' tactic of taking their boats just over the horizon, still within Indonesian territory, and then calling up the Aussie Navy to come and collect them has been described as using the navy like the NRMA - our national road assistance outfit.

Once again we're being made to look like mugs as they continue their emotional blackmail tactics.

At least Abbott may be able to toughen things up but may not be able to completely fix the problem. If the gillard government stays in, nothing better will ever happen. Gillard is more concerned about getting votes from the greens than she is about Australia getting rorted big time from these people.
 Tah,
Joined: 11/18/2008
Msg: 71
Are you a racist ?
Posted: 7/5/2012 2:35:03 AM
Iran is under sanctions by pro isreali countries, sanctions that are creating refugee's....Also iran is under attack by american supported insurgency groups that carry out shit people flee from....

Still ironic Afghans go there and understanable why iran wouldn't be critisised .



Neither do many to most boat people


You would be labelled paranoid if you can't back this up, can you back it up?
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 3/30/2010
Msg: 72
Are you a racist ?
Posted: 7/5/2012 3:34:04 AM
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/immigration/lost-at-sea-37-of-3237-boatpeople-had-passports/story-fn9hm1gu-1226256747251
 MrsNaamah
Joined: 11/8/2011
Msg: 73
Are you a racist ?
Posted: 7/10/2012 6:23:32 PM
Even though I wanted to respond to some of the comments posted by TieMeUp about boat people, in advance I will say that I am aware of the futility of discussing some of these issues with anyone of that particular staunch and absolute mindset. But, my reason for wanting to respond is moreso to put some additional information out there for others who, like me, are still forming their opinions and are trying to do so based on facts and broader information than is ever offered in oversimplified catchcries and angry accusations.


Many of these illegals have most probably never heard a shot fired in anger.

In comparison to those kinds of sweeping generalisations, according to the Edmund Rice Centre, 84% of asylum seekers are determined to be valid refugees coming from places where there is strife and persecution. Some of them have been waiting a while for help and are escaping this sort of thing >>> “According to the Afghanistan NGO Security Office, a non-profit organisation that advises nongovernmental organisations on safety conditions in Afghanistan, in 2010 there were more than 12,000 attacks by armed opposition groups throughout Afghanistan. That is roughly 33 attacks every single day of the year. In comparison, in 2009 there were about 12 attacks every day and fewer in 2008. These attacks include ambushes, abductions, suicide bombings, and rocket attacks; all of which kill and injure thousands of innocent Afghans every year.” (http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/44374.html)

In 2012 this has reduced and yet it’s far from peaceful and safe. Some random examples >> In February, 9 were killed in an airport when a bomb went off…in March 16 civilians were murdered… in May there was an hour long gunbattle during which two attackers were fatally shot and the remaining four detonated vests rigged with explosives killing 2 civilians and several police officers (they’d been on their way to blow up a local government office)…in recent weeks there was a suicide attack outside Kandahar university and seven people died. There’s plenty plenty more where that came from. ANSO’s map representing levels of attacks across provinces still shows a lot of bad stuff going on. And “the Taliban launch a fresh offensive every spring as snows melt and the weather warms across Afghanistan, making both travel and fighting easier. It normally leads to a surge of militant attacks as they attempt to retake lost territory and intimidate the government.” And Afghanistan has been in the midst of wars for decades, been in drought for years, and has one of the highest rates of infant mortality and one of the lowest average lifespans. It must have been a glossy tourist brochure I was reading cos it sounds a veritable paradise doesn’t it!


That's why they choose to come the illegal way as a loophole to destroy evidence of who they are and where they really came from. That way, they can lie through their teeth. If they had nothing to hide, they wouldn't be doing this.


First point to share… “In Iraq and Afghanistan, there are no queues for people to jump. Australia has no diplomatic representation in these countries and supports the International coalition of nations who continue to oppose these regimes and support sanctions against them. Therefore, there is no standard refugee process where people wait in line to have their applications considered.” (Source: Edmund Rice Centre)

Second point…some automatically assume that no documentation means they all wish to hide where they really came from. This is repeatedly claimed despite the fact that 84% of all asylum seekers are found to be legitimate refugees. So if 84% are genuine, why do these people have no documentation? Valid question. They have no genuine documentation for varying reasons; because they fled without it, because the government they were escaping wasn’t exactly keen to help them out with documents to help them escape, or because it would be dangerously stupid to travel under their real identity in the countries where their identity would get them persecuted/killed or deported back to be tortured/killed. Ginger has already pointed that out. So ok, how did they get to Indonesia? Also a valid question, but the answer is so obvious. They can relatively easily get a fake passport. This is what they use to use to get to Indonesia. And if they had say, a fake passport of Saudi Arabia (or one of 51 other possible countries) then Indonesian policy allows them to apply for a visa on arrival. Or if they had a fake passport from certain other countries (11 possibilities in total) they wouldn’t need a visa at all. So, if we want, we can all certainly feel smugly judgemental towards these people for being likely to have bought a fake passport to get to Indonesia. Disgusting isn’t it…the things some people will do to escape persecution/torture/death. Anyway, once they get to us, they can revert to their real identity as refugees…meaning destroying the fake passports…not the real ones that they never had in the first place. That’s a decidedly different explanation, and one I think we need to consider.

It would mean it’s not Australia these people are lying to…it was the risky and non-refugee-accepting countries they had to pass through to get here. If they actually had their real documents they would stand to gain nothing by destroying them, as those who accuse them so often point out. So yep, they did dodgy stuff with a fake passport…naughty…but did it for the sake of survival. Their true position is likely to be that of having no genuine passport. But this still doesn’t make them illegals, because nothing in international law requires someone claiming refugee status to have documents. It’s not illegal for a refugee to not have a passport simply because of the impossibilities involved in getting/having a genuine passport from their country of origin which I’ve already mentioned. And apparently we do manage to weed out the far smaller percentage who are not genuine, so it would be a bit harsh to just automatically reject everyone with no documents given the high percentage who are.

Third point… some keep asking why they don’t just stay in Indonesia, or a country they reached sooner than Australia. If refugees make it to Indonesia they cannot apply to stay in Indonesia because Indonesia is not a signatory to the Refugee Convention. Australia, however, did sign up. In that region only Cambodia, the Philippines and Timor-Leste are also signed up, but their refugee frameworks are in varying states of development. We’re affluent and politically stable, so are in a good position to offer refuge. But we take in very low numbers of refugees compared to other countries…places like Germany, and even Kenya, take in massively more than we do. The disparity is huge. And yet you see people claiming that we’re so unusually generous compared to everyone else that we’re at risk of being labeled a soft touch? Hilarious. Those “we’re full” stickers are a bit of a joke…we’re contributing very little to the international effort to provide refuge. It should also be noted that whilst our political and economic situation appeals to those fleeing conflict and who make it to Indonesia, very low numbers actually head our way. We’re not quite the penultimate destination we think we are. We’re just one port in a storm for those who have the will and means to try this path.

Fourth point…if refugees make it to Indonesia, there are a grand total of two (yes, two) staff there who are processing refugee claims for Australia and there are about 8000 people waiting for claims to be processed. This equates to a long queue, and a long wait. Long queues are always pressure cookers especially if the queue doesn’t seem to be moving. It creates competing interests, and the humans are always tempted to want to find a quicker way. Can you imagine 2 people serving 8000 people. Not even the Department of Transport can claim to be that slow. Now hands up amongst us who would not, when stressed and afraid and desperate and long-delayed, be potentially be tempted to jump some kind of queue to get quicker relief for ourselves or our family. Waiting at the hospital in pain, stacks of people waiting, if an opportunity to get seen quicker presented itself would you say in your best saints voice, no, I’ll wait my turn because all these other people came before me and I don’t want to wreck the orderly system you have here…? If busting for the loo, and someone told you there was another toilet nearby nobody knew about…would you tell aaaaall the people in front of you in the queue to be sure that you didn’t go ahead of anyone else, or would you make a run for it? Traffic jam …you see people lane jumping, cutting people off, driving over traffic islands…you name it, people do it to get up in the queue. When a new checkout opens in a really backlogged supermarket…stampede! I reckon it’s just typical human behaviour, and the higher the stakes, and the more competing interests, the more tempted people will be towards queue jumping. So I don’t think we should kid ourselves that refugees who hit the boats are doing something we ourselves would never do in their position with those stakes and those competing interests. And really, how hard would it be for us to put more staff on to process the claims and relieve a lot of that pressure that causes some of them to jump on leaky boats.

You can check out an example of what Afghan refugees do to get here, here:
http://www.abc.net.au/innovation/seekingasylum/

It always strikes me as a little ironic that the people who are most loudly outraged by this terrible self-serving queue-jumping behaviour seem to have a rather selfish agenda themselves …that of not wanting to share because there will be less for those of us already here. And hey, I admit that’s pretty typical human behaviour too, and it’s not entirely unjustified if you look at the bigger/future picture …but Australians who rant and carry on (about what terrible people these people must be for queue-jumping) are hardly somehow adopting the more righteous position. We’re not battling to survive and yet our behaviour, comparatively with other countries, shows us to be far less willing to share than people who have far less to share than we do.

Besides…earlier in this thread, wasn’t preservation of our supposed devoted christianity being held up as a lofty goal? And doesn’t it say in Leviticus that foreigners should be welcomed and treated as our own? ‘Course it also hates on gay people, but hey, it’s not my bible.


and start giving them more benefits than what legit aussie citizens get

Not true. The Asylum Seeker Assistance (ASA) Scheme helps some eligible asylum seekers who are in the process of having their refugee status determined. What they get is less than Centrelink benefits. If they are granted refugee status, they can apply to Centrelink and will receive the same rate as non-refugees…same as Newstart allowance, which is $90/wk less than the aged pension Or, single mothers get the same rate as non-refugee single mothers. There are no separate Centrelink allowances they can receive simply by virtue of being a refugee. So quite simply, they don’t get more than Australian citizens as is so often claimed.


It's funny how they can afford all this money to come on a dangerous leaky boat when they could be paying far less on the comfort of an plane

People will scorn them for not being dirt poor and stoney broke, and yet in their next breath will claim they are ‘economic refugees’, not escaping risk of torture/death at all but merely seeking to move because they are sick of being poor. That’s a contradiction for a start. From what I can find out, many refugees who come this way are middle class, well educated, etc…which is what made them a target for persecution at home in the first place. They are not claiming refugee status because they are poor, but because they are scared. So yes, they can afford the $10,000 it costs to get on a boat, and no they are not coming here for economic reasons or to live forever off our Centrelink payments.


The UNHCR doesn't heap criticism on Iran for deporting 900,000 Afghans last year, even giving them $150 each to leave, but expects Australia to take them all in.

They have been massively criticised for it actually. But even so, Iran has been taking Afghan refugees for decades and hosted about 2.5 million refugees with almost no international assistance. Good effort I’d say. Pakistan took in about a million or so. In contrast Australia currently accepts a total of 13,750 refugees per year (which is only 7% of our total immigration every year). So now that Iran can’t keep so many due to having their own problems, we could be jerks about it, or we could decide to pick up the slack and help out those whose country has been really messed up, most recently by a war we’re involved in. They’re being sent back to a war-ravaged country where violence is still more the norm… and they aren’t keen about it? Funny that.
 GuessWhat1964
Joined: 4/15/2012
Msg: 74
Are you a racist ?
Posted: 7/10/2012 10:31:31 PM
In response to MsNamaah,

I think a lot of issues that Australians have with the immigration issue is the reasonable perception of inequity. For example: Mary was born in Australia, and has worked hard all her life and paid her taxes. When she gets old, she receives the old age pension from the Australian tax payer. Fatima comes from a leaky boat, as her children didn’t want to leave her behind. She is too old to work, so she receives an old age pension from the Australia tax payer. She has never worked a day in her life in Australia, never paid a cent of tax, and she never will. The Australian public notice this, say so, and are automatically branded racist and intolerant.

An Aussie single mum gets paid single mothers pension. Her children were born in Australia. Fatima jnr. who came off the boat also gets single mother’s pension, at the same rate. Her parents, grandparents etc have never worked a day for Australia, and never paid a cent of taxes. The Australian public notice this, and speak out. Because Fatima jnr. isn’t white, the Aussies are automatically branded racist and intolerant.

My dentist told me the hell he went through to migrate from South Africa to Australia. He had money, a medical degree, and perfect documentation. My dentist is white...so he waited for years. If he was a black African with no education, no money, and no passport, he would be here in no time at all by hopping on a leaky boat.

Are you people starting to see the picture?

We are constantly being bombarded by the media and the politicians and self interest groups with the message that “White” is bad, and “Black” is good. If a white person speaks out on anything to do with a non-white, we are all collectively obligated to label him/her a racist. But by not crying out the word “racist” immediately and really loudly, you are yourself assumed to be a racist through your non-compliance with the PC manual. Yes it is like a witch hunt. Burned to death if you are...drowned to death if you say you’re not. Take your choice.

So if you think I’m wrong about this, then just review the abolition of the “White Australia Policy.”

You see, taking in white people is bad...really BAD.
 Blalah
Joined: 3/25/2012
Msg: 75
Are you a racist ?
Posted: 7/10/2012 10:39:41 PM
Just don't ever criticize a black president or even disagree with one single policy of his if you ever elect one because then you will be labeled a racist forevermore.
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