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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Did they really find the Higgs Boson particle?      Home login  
Joined: 6/9/2012
Msg: 17
Did they really find the Higgs Boson particle?Page 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
Well, actually, "forums1" was right....Lederman did want to call it the Goddamn Particle because it was so "god damn" hard to find. I wanted to relate that part myself, but I didn't realize I could type that here lol But yea, then the publisher said no way, Jose, we are not publishing that. So he went to Plan B: "God" particle, again because it is central to that part of particle physics (i.e., figuring out how some particles have mass and others don't) and yet is so elusive. Aaaaand I can't help but think the sensationalism of the phrase was also designed to attract attention and sell copies of his book :)
Joined: 5/25/2011
Msg: 18
Did they really find the Higgs Boson particle?
Posted: 7/5/2012 8:48:33 PM
OK.... excuse my ignorance on this subject
and being too lazy to quickly brush up on it...

. . . but all I'd really like to know is . . . what purpose does it now serve to have found this Higgs Boson particle?

What will we now accomplish by knowing this?
Not that I'm saying we shouldn't know as much as we can.... but is it really going to mean something?

Something other than just filling another page in a physics textbook?

Oh wait?

We might be able to harness the energy from a Higgs Boson particle like we did the atom to get our clean nuclear energy.
And of course, the military would be quick on their heels to build a Higgs Boson particle weapon that could blow this universe beyond its' expansion rate.
We tend to always find some military benefit out of these scientific discoveries.

Why do they nick name it the "God" particle?

High intelligence can tend to become arrogant in their aggressive, testosterone field of science. They want to be famous for what they are researching and what other name could top GOD?
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 19
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Did they really find the Higgs Boson particle?
Posted: 7/5/2012 9:17:02 PM
That's a great question about 'the purpose'. Often researchers are poor PR people and don't conve the potential value.

There's lots of purposes but the BIG one is knowing that particle physics is going down the right street of knowledge. These are the building blocks of 'existence' and these blocks can be used to build quantum computers, used in nan0 technology at the atom level, etc. Understanding electrons, etc. lets us buld a computer that is more powerful in computation than an abacus...trillions of times more powerful. Understanding the 'why' electrons act as they do can likewise lead to a computer a trillion times more powerful than what we have today. Fundamental building blocks of matter and energy may eventually be configured to make 'anything' out of 'anything'. Matter and energy aren't magic and knowledge of 'why' they exist at all is understanding existence itself.
Joined: 5/25/2011
Msg: 20
Did they really find the Higgs Boson particle?
Posted: 7/5/2012 9:25:35 PM
Somehow.... the idea of such a powerful computer just brings visions of corporations selling useless gadgets to people.

The computer you're using now could have probably been capable of handling all the NASA Apollo missions.... but here we just use them to play on POF.

I can see it now..... the next generation of computers will have the Higgs Boson particle chip to enhance your totally useless virtual reality game.... meanwhile, it's computational prowess would still be wasted..... as no one would use it to create a world where everything was free, no one would starve etc, etc..... if it could eradicate the need for money ... no more rich or poor... every one equal....
Then I'd be impressed.
Joined: 11/20/2004
Msg: 21
Did they really find the Higgs Boson particle?
Posted: 7/5/2012 11:10:34 PM
It's nicknamed the "god" particle because of it's behavior, which is the reason it's taken such tremendous advances in technology to be able to detect. The Higgs boson can decay into any of the other 5 elementary particles due to it's far higher mass (roughly 125GeVs, compared to the double-digits of the others). If the decay is symmetrical as the standard model predicts, then the chance of it not decaying into less massive siblings is astronomically small during each of it's half-lives. One elementary particle that can become any of the other elementary particles, if someone didn't understand that there are other ways to create the other elementary particles it would be very easy to come to the conclusion that it's THE source of all of the elementary particles, hence the ridiculous term "god particle".

They still haven't confirmed whether or not what was detected is in fact the Higgs boson, but it fits the profile very closely. So closely that if it is not a Higgs boson then it would certainly be a coincidence worthy of a paragraph or two in our history books. Given that Higgs himself was at the presentation, in tears no less, I would not at all be surprised if it really is the Higgs boson they detected.

The computer you're using now could have probably been capable of handling all the NASA Apollo missions

Most definitely it could. Just look at any modern video game, really dig into the math involved. I have an entire page of college ruled line paper with just the equation I use for calculating the color of the sky, atmospheric haze, and air glow; all of it takes a few hundred microseconds to calculate for ~900,000 pixels (most coverage anyone would see playing the game). A whole page for the lighting equation which is ran at most 10s of millions of times in around 4ms. Not to mention cloud simulation, water simulation, weather simulation, game logic, AI, processing button presses, playing sounds, and many other things. All of this happening while I'm still able to have a 1080 resolution video playing on another screen, while also having 20 or so tabs open in Firefox, and all of my debugging tools collecting data. The amount of calculations a modern computer can handle per-second is so large that the only way to write it down is to use powers of ten notation, unless you fancy writing so many zeros that your arm goes numb.
Joined: 8/15/2009
Msg: 22
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Did they really find the Higgs Boson particle?
Posted: 7/6/2012 1:00:11 AM
If the particle they have found is indeed the Higgs Boson, and if they can manage to manipulate it, it opens up a whole new area of exploration and technology.

Hello, Warp Drive.
Hello, Matter transfer.
Hello, anti-gravity.

Hello, Capt. Picard.
Joined: 5/25/2011
Msg: 23
Did they really find the Higgs Boson particle?
Posted: 7/6/2012 7:16:48 AM

OK.... let me get this straight.... this particle was named GOD because they couldn't find evidence of it?

Oh the hypocrisy....
Joined: 4/17/2012
Msg: 24
Did they really find the Higgs Boson particle?
Posted: 7/6/2012 8:35:47 AM
^now thats funny :)
Joined: 4/17/2012
Msg: 25
Did they really find the Higgs Boson particle?
Posted: 7/6/2012 10:53:16 AM
CERN says they are within reach, from what Ive been reading as of late.
Finding this last piece could be one the greatest scientific achievements in this century.
What a puzzle piece of a particle to find.
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 26
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Did they really find the Higgs Boson particle?
Posted: 7/8/2012 7:03:00 AM
Funny stuff.

Our Political Black Hole


Published: July 6, 2012

Scientists in Geneva announced this week that they had found a new subatomic particle that they were 99.999999 percent sure was the elusive Higgs boson, nicknamed the “God particle.” Even though we had no earthly idea what that meant, we were definitely excited.

It’s given us so much to think about: how existence began, the structure of the universe, the difference between bosons and fermions. And, of course, what it will mean to the presidential race.

The first thing all patriotic Americans are going to want to know is why something this important happened elsewhere. The Large Hadron Collider, where the physicists did the work, was built by the European Organization for Nuclear Research. We were building a Superconducting Super Collider of our own, in Waxahachie, Tex., but Congress stopped the financing for it in 1993.

“It’s disheartening that a large number of fairly intelligent people could do such a thing,” said Leon Lederman, a Nobel Prize-winning physicist, when the budget-cutting House of Representatives ended the program. This was, of course, a long time ago, back when Americans still undertook expensive, daring construction projects and believed the House of Representatives had a large number of fairly intelligent people.

But about the Higgs boson. As Dennis Overbye explained in The Times, it is “the only manifestation of an invisible force field, a cosmic molasses that permeates space and imbues elementary particles with mass.” And we have so many questions. Does it provide evidence of the existence of parallel worlds? If so, is it possible to move to one that doesn’t have Michele Bachmann?

Most of all, however, we want to know who this helps in the election:

WOLFEBORO, N.H. — Mitt Romney today denounced Barack Obama for allowing Europe to beat the United States at particle physics research. Under his administration, Romney vowed, “All particles that bind the earth together will be discovered in America, by Americans and for Americans.”

Under questioning from reporters, Romney said that his favorite kind of subatomic particle is the fermion.

SOMEWHERE ON A BUS — Speaking to a crowd of blue-collar workers in Ohio, President Barack Obama hailed the scientific news from Geneva as “a great moment in history, not unlike my rescue of the auto industry.” The physicists who made the discovery, Obama noted, all had health insurance.

TRENTON — Gov. Chris Christie today called for the privatization of the Higgs boson. “Binding the earth together is something that could be handled much more efficiently by the for-profit sector,” the Republican governor and deeply available vice-presidential prospect said. “Auctioning off the rights to the Higgs boson will create American jobs and balance American budgets.”

When a reporter noted that the boson was discovered in Switzerland, Christie called him “stupid” and “off-topic.”

CEDAR FALLS, IOWA — Rick Santorum today denounced the European Organization for Nuclear Research for discovering something that is nicknamed the God particle. “If God had wanted there to be a particle, he’d have given it to Adam and Eve,” said Santorum, who is traveling through the Hawkeye State this week because, really, he doesn’t have much else to do.

WOLFEBORO, N.H. — Aides to Mitt Romney said the former governor’s favorite kind of subatomic particle is actually the boson.

SOMEWHERE ELSE ON A BUS — President Barack Obama told a crowd of blue-collar workers that there have been more Higgs bosons discovered during his administration than during those of both George Bushes combined.

WOLFEBORO, N.H. — Mitt Romney said today that when he called for an American effort to beat the Europeans in particle physics research, he did not actually mean spending money to build a supercollider, but merely “the need for our physicists to think harder.” The Republican presidential contender said he believed this could be accomplished by “the elimination of onerous, physics-research-killing regulations.”

JUST OUTSIDE OF WOLFEBORO, N.H. — Protesters today passed out cartoons of Mitt Romney with a large, cuddly looking Higgs boson strapped to a crate on the front of his jet ski.

WASHINGTON — Surrogates for Barack Obama and Mitt Romney sparred over the meaning of the potential discovery of the Higgs boson. On “Meet the Press,” Gov. Bobby Jindal of Louisiana called it “a questionable throw of the dice by the same folks who gave us the euro.”

On “Face the Nation,” David Axelrod, the Obama campaign communications director, said that if the Large Hadron Collider had been acquired by Bain Capital it would have been “burdened with debt and sold for scrap metal” and that Romney would be “the most anti-physics president since Franklin Pierce.”

NEW YORK — Donald Trump told reporters that “my people in Hong Kong” have uncovered evidence that America’s failure to take the lead in subatomic particle research was because of a conspiracy between the Obama administration and unnamed Chinese industrialists. He also said that he had invited the Higgs boson to be a contender on “All-Star Celebrity Apprentice.”
Joined: 8/19/2013
Msg: 27
Did they really find the Higgs Boson particle?
Posted: 10/8/2013 8:30:37 PM
How can they even claim such a thing? I mean even discovering something so marvelous is indeed a wonder. What isn't in this universe? We are only able to discern, with our mortal, visible eye and our man made mechanisms-4% of our Universe- the rest is shrouded in Dark Matter & Dark Energy. Yet this new particle- is going to be the "it" particle?

Thought it was established the Universe is infinite, on a microscopic and macroscopic scale? Or am I still stuck reading outdated material on crappy websites?
Joined: 8/19/2013
Msg: 28
Did they really find the Higgs Boson particle?
Posted: 10/9/2013 7:54:13 PM
Man is not genius or great when we spend even more Billions of dollars on destruction, chaos and allow for others to starve. *rolls eyes* Arrogance of 'man's acheivement'. Yet we can't even journey outside of solar system AND- we only know how much of the limited, puny 4% of our Universe? Just makes me laugh.

It will be significant but I think so for other reasons.
Joined: 8/19/2013
Msg: 29
Did they really find the Higgs Boson particle?
Posted: 10/9/2013 7:55:31 PM
One Ring to Rule them all...
Joined: 8/19/2013
Msg: 30
Did they really find the Higgs Boson particle?
Posted: 10/10/2013 5:13:55 PM
Well what is out there and should we even be pushing to journey out in the vastness of space? How much 'radiation' is out there, especially if we travel out from our Galaxy inwards. How much heat and how fast are objects moving at the centre of our Galaxy? Let alone all that cosmic explosions and gases- do we even have the capacity and materials to build with to journey into such places?

I like the romanticism of space travel but do say it is as you say, impractical. I'm of the belief that we can barely make it pass our own planet with materials from our own planets to aid the way. Its not about money. If its something we truly wanted- we would make it happen.
Joined: 9/13/2009
Msg: 31
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Did they really find the Higgs Boson particle?
Posted: 10/11/2013 11:15:23 AM

Briton Peter Higgs and Belgian François Englert have won the 2013 Nobel Prize in Physics, 'for something small that makes all the difference' – the Higgs boson.

The Higgs boson or Higgs particle is an elementary particle initially theorised in 1964, and tentatively confirmed to exist on 14 March 2013. The discovery has been called "monumental" because it appears to confirm the existence of the Higgs field, which is pivotal to the Standard Model and other theories within particle physics. It would explain why some fundamental particles have mass when the symmetries controlling their interactions should require them to be massless, and - linked to this - why the weak force has a much shorter range than the electromagnetic force. Its existence and knowledge of its properties would impact cosmology and other areas of particle physics. It should allow physicists to finally validate the last untested area of the Standard Model's approach to fundamental particles and forces, guide other theories and discoveries in particle physics, and potentially lead to developments in "new" physics.

With the Higgs boson in the bag, the head of the CERN research center urged scientists on Tuesday to push on to unveil the “dark universe” — the hidden stuff that makes up 95 percent of the cosmos and is still a mystery to earthbound researchers.
Rolf Heuer spoke after the Nobel physics prize went to Briton Peter Higgs and Belgian Francois Englert for predicting the existence of the Higgs boson particle, which explains how fundamental matter got the mass to form stars and planets.
“We have now completed the Standard Model,” Heuer told reporters, referring to the portrait of the known universe drafted in the 1980s.
“It is high time for us to go on to the dark universe,” added the director general of the world’s main institution focusing on the basic particles of nature, based near Geneva.
The Higgs boson and its associated force field were among the last major building blocks of that model of how the cosmos works.
Their existence was confirmed, after three decades, when the particle was seen last year in CERN’s underground particle smasher, the giant Large Hadron Collider (LHC).
Joined: 8/19/2013
Msg: 32
Did they really find the Higgs Boson particle?
Posted: 10/12/2013 10:05:13 AM
I was referring to inter-galactic (does the robot to Beastie Boys Intergalactic re-mix) space exploration beyond sending out machines. But I could see how the communication broke down that I was ignorant of CERN and their mission and even website that has such yet very limited (or controlled) knowledge available. ;)

If the Boson Higgs will allow us to travel beyond our reaches- I'd journey towards the centre of our Galaxy First. Anyone care to rip us a ring of fire to hop through? As that seems more likely than the 'beaming' prospect as we would have to have the machines available to re-assemble in the first place. Which I enjoyed Disney's take on John Carter-Stopping along the way at other 'habitable' or 'Earth like' Creations.

Just hope such being on said planets don't mind us mucking about their progress but if its inwards that the 'Earth like' Beings live on 'Earth like' conditions- I hazard the guess that they could incinerate us by their very presence as and not out of malice but to their composition, well, they live in an area of our Galaxy where things are not like our area of the Galaxy so they may burn energy and be of a higher energy than we could withstand.
Joined: 8/19/2013
Msg: 33
Did they really find the Higgs Boson particle?
Posted: 10/13/2013 8:44:31 PM
1) I don't come to this forum to spew forth verbal abuse and insults at other posters. Thanks Frank but you can check your temper at the door when addressing me. Thank you.

2) my comment was to reference that I could see that it was assumed I was ignorant of CERN whereas I was not as I have been on that site and thus why I have said- its very limited and even then- like they would totally have full disclosure of finding? Not bloodly likely. They jumped the gun before and then said to wait some more. This should have been discernible with even that the WEBSITE HAS SUCH VERY LIMITED (or controlled) knowledge available part of my statement.

Did they really find the Higgs Boson particle?
Posted: 10/14/2013 3:01:09 PM

Well what is out there and should we even be pushing to journey out in the vastness of space?

Let's just look at the following things: Resources. Pollution created in the process of obtaining resources. The space requirements of human population. Global economics, and quality of life.

Outer space is nothing but "stuff". Everything you could think of (not man-made), every kind of rock, dirt, element, is the very fabric of space.That’s what it is, that’s what defines it, for the purposes of this subject. In our solar system alone, we have an asteroid belt, kuiper belt, and oort completely forget about all of the planets and their moons. There are rocks and mountains of ice and a great variety of other elements by the hundreds of thousands or even millions (?) wandering around in our system alone - they would all add together to greatly rival the total mass of all of the planets and moons in our system added together. Now...consider this fact - One single typical (?) asteroid, just one and only one of how much is out there, would yield more iron ore than has ever been mined on Earth since all of human history.

So...this not only means that our problems, and disputes, over resources in many respects would be greatly reduced, but it also means that the natural environment of our planet would get some relief, because we wouldn't have to dig into the ground so much, and also much of the pollution involved in this would also bring it's own relief to our ecosystem.

We could also, while obtaining materials from space, in a two-birds-with-one-stone approach, begin to find and gather all of the NEO's that might otherwise strike our planet one day and kill us all.

And it should go without saying that if we were ever to succeed in colonizing various areas in space in a practical manner, that might begin to counteract our impact on Earth as well, concerning space requirements for the population, but also, again, other logistical benefits related to that.

And...polluting outer space? Outer space is also nothing but what we could call "polluted", and even way beyond any of our definitions. It also happens that some environments and dynamics in space are infinitely more effective at "recycling" what poor little humans could ever call "waste" of various forms. Imagine dropping loads of “landfill” into Jupiter. The atmospheric pressures, wind speeds, and chemical makeup would quickly disassemble and decompose everything down to the molecular level and/or into the material form which is either already present or has literally zero impact. This wouldn’t be “littering” Jupiter at all, the trash would no longer even exist. Or if we really had to we’d launch things towards our Sun. And our issues with waste are partly because we’re festering/trapped within what is effectively a closed-system in some respects on Earth, while the makeup of space makes our ideas of pollution and trash obsolete and meaningless (though we wouldn’t want to just leave things cluttered, like with all of the space junk that is in Earth-orbit…but which again is a result of us being so limited in our space-faring capabilities).

Moreover, it is my suspicion that if there were any drastic improvements in our ability to engage in practical activities in outer space, that would have a surprising positive effect on the whole world concerning economics and quality of life - This would not be a case of any nation, commercial entity, or scientific community being able to, or wanting to, keep any secrets concerning the capability...and no one will want to be left behind. Nations and corporations, etc, will gladly risk going bankrupt, paying both of their arms and legs, and even their souls to invest in whatever ways necessary to begin developing infrastructures and activities involved in any of a thousand ways to be part of such a growth. And this will create employment and educational opportunities globally like we possibly have never before seen.
Joined: 8/19/2013
Msg: 35
Did they really find the Higgs Boson particle?
Posted: 10/14/2013 5:41:52 PM
I had this dream once when I was in my mid 20s. I had these flat rocks that lit up when I touched them. They also had a quality that they also powered my work station in my home. These rocks work much like how a lap top works today.
I was a research based individual so I was needed in the main city. I headed out to the inner city (cities radiated out of the main core of 'civilization or the main City') to catch the transport. Which happened to be powered by similar 'pure white, lit up rocks'. The rocks were use to ID who I was and where I worked and we could not enter the main city without them. Once in the city, we would basically use these rocks to power the things we needed. Transport, library PCs, work stations. Even needed them for flight purposes- water transport wasn't a concern as, well, flight was quicker, almost a jump in mere minutes. The rocks worked on ones ability to use their mind and body energies to operate correctly. So you had to train your brain to reserve a part of it to focus on being 'centered' for lack of a better word.

That is what I see in regards to outer space. Materials that have greater capacity to give us needed energy and materials that are 'purer' or 'refined' and 'cleaner' without radiation and even risk of pollution. Much like how Tesla could develop 'free energy' and yet; that never came about. What a shock! *shakes head* I just find it hard to believe that those who hold power would willingly let such constraints and self motivation die readily.

I dare suggest it would take adjusting to give up the materialistic society we live in and the tendency to control information even- for the sake of a greater united purpose. I see things progressing but also with it- the need to dominate and control. Ever thought that is why the past civilizations or 'Great Empires' truly collapsed- materialism?

With this I ask; what are the odds that our Ancestors of thousands of years ago, did not have more refined means of energy and technology than we do today? There have always been great minds- 'ahead of their time'.

I'm not one to think that what we do today, in regards to medicine, science, technology is better or grander let alone 'new' in conceiving and implementing on the scale we do today.

Arrogance about civilizations past and our present day?
Joined: 5/25/2011
Msg: 36
Did they really find the Higgs Boson particle?
Posted: 10/14/2013 7:11:08 PM
Sure, sure. And here I thought the coolest physics experiment was going on two kms under my feet in a old mine. Neutrinos, double beta decay and the like. Now I find out there's an even more interesting particle under study. Just amazing ... the search for knowledge never ends.
Joined: 8/19/2013
Msg: 37
Did they really find the Higgs Boson particle?
Posted: 10/14/2013 7:13:26 PM
No. It gave me ideas that Earth does not provide enough of an elemental basis to work with materials that space could provide in that Earth is limited when it comes to 'renewable' sources. So imagine what space and other sources would offer. The possibilities of new materials with capabilities we are not even aware of is astounding to contemplate. Yet you think Ore is sufficient because its a known element. Its the exploration and discovery that invites in innovation and materials we may not be aware of that holds my interest. Just uncertain if we have the capacity to realize this- or we just going to start off small and stick to what we 'know'?

Because I'm female; I'm deemed a witch? *laughs*
Did they really find the Higgs Boson particle?
Posted: 4/14/2014 1:58:07 AM

[asteroid belt, kuiper belt, oort cloud] they would all add together to greatly rival the total mass of all of the planets and moons in our system added together

The total mass isn't nearly that much. Found out recently that it's not nearly that much, and has bothered me to post this correction till I could find where I posted it before. I coulda swore that the asteroid belt, kuiper belt, and oort cloud had much more than apparently we think that they do.

But...that's still a whole lotta stuff.
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 39
Did they really find the Higgs Boson particle?
Posted: 4/14/2014 4:53:27 AM

The total mass isn't nearly that much. Found out recently that it's not nearly that much, and has bothered me to post this correction till I could find where I posted it before. I coulda swore that the asteroid belt, kuiper belt, and oort cloud had much more than apparently we think that they do.

But...that's still a whole lotta stuff.

No, probably rivals the mass of the earth (or two or three)... probably not even close to the mass of Jupiter though, although it's hard to tell given the diffuse nature of the belts (and their distance). Still a heck of a lot of resources if we could get out there to get them though.
Did they really find the Higgs Boson particle?
Posted: 4/14/2014 12:11:45 PM
Well, see, a couple of sources I looked at say that it'd total maybe half of our moon, at the most. (?!) But that just doesn't sound right to me. Not even close. Not even just a couple of Earth's worth. Even with common sense, without direct facts (though that's a bad approach to use), you have to consider the mind bogglingly vast volumes of space that we're talking about, despite how "spread out" things are, plus the processes that created all of the asteroids and comets in our system's general vicinity in the first place. I don't see any way that there's no more than that "left over" after the development of our planets, etc. At least in the oort cloud, even if the potential for the kuiper and inner belt was diminished by planet and moon formation.
Joined: 7/1/2011
Msg: 41
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Did they really find the Higgs Boson particle?
Posted: 4/14/2014 12:30:17 PM
A lot of it was probably ejected during accretion. Accretion is a very volatile process, as I understand it. Sounds like the same reaction I had when I learned that the human body has somewhere around fifty to one hundred trillion cells in it, only in reverse. I mean wow that is a lot.
Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Did they really find the Higgs Boson particle?