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 InnerGorilla
Joined: 4/1/2014
Msg: 137
Religion and datingPage 6 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)

What's even funnier is to see someone living in the fictional world they've created for themselves, and posting intimate details of their fantasies on every thread here that would appear to them to be appropriate to that end.


You deem it unfathomable.

Little do you know. LOL.
 Supersoulson
Joined: 10/21/2014
Msg: 138
Religion and dating
Posted: 11/5/2014 3:08:06 PM
Well OP, to answer your question …. I don’t mean to brag but I used to date the most gorgeous women on the planet every night and they couldn’t get enough of me, what can I say ? But then I found the most AMAZING woman, and of course it should go without saying but I just can’t resist letting you know that yes, she is one of the most gorgeous woman on the planet ! Not only that but she wants it constantly ! And of course, I am able to give it to her constantly because I am so amazing !

So, in conclusion OP, I think you should just ask her how strong her religious convictions are.

heheh heh
 DragonBits
Joined: 1/6/2012
Msg: 139
Religion and dating
Posted: 11/5/2014 3:40:44 PM

Yeah, there's some wiggle room with the whole sexual misconduct precept, but then.. there is within Christianity and other religions too. You see it all the time. So pick your poison, or not.. as the case may be.


In reality, there is no wiggle room in any of the mainstream religions in Christianity, at least the ones that I investigated. Within the Catholic Church, even oral sex in a marriage is a sin since this sex act is done solely for pleasure and precludes any possibility of procreation. I suppose the "wiggle room" is you can engage in sexual intercourse after menopause, since it's possible by divine intervention to get pregnant. And oral sex as foreplay is acceptable as long it is only foreplay and doesn't result in an orgasm.

People just ignore the parts of their religion they don't want to follow. IE: cafeteria Christians. But I think most just adopt a don't ask policy, and the pastors tend not to get into any detail about what the rules actually are. Leaving most people to assume they know.

You can also "sin" and resolve not to "sin" again, but if you intending to "sin" again then your confession doesn't count.

But I know the reality, since I was more than commonly involved with the Catholic Church.

You see, my ex-wife was raised by Catholic nuns, we had many nuns over as house guests, priest would say mass in our house, she worked a the Parish rectory, and also cared for a 95 year old priest as he died.

I have chatted with more than a few about Canon law.

After we got a divorce, she applied for an annulment, I was assigned a canon advocate, there was a diocesan tribunal. Sort of like a legal trial, but I didn't have to attend in person. She wanted the annulment so that she could be free to become a Catholic nun. I supported this, I thought she would be happiest as a nun, and she did get the annulment.

I doubt most people are as serious about their religion as was my ex-wife, so I would date a christian, but I wouldn't date anyone that raised the issue in their profile.

It's not absolute deal breaker, but all things considered, my preference was to date those not raised with a Christian worldview.
 rockin-trucker82
Joined: 1/4/2014
Msg: 140
Religion and dating
Posted: 11/5/2014 6:08:24 PM
Was there ever a logical reason given why it's frowned upon? That question applies to any religion that frowns upon sex being used for pleasure. I don't like following rules and regulations unless I know why I am following those rules. If someone tells me sex is only allowed for breeding purposes and should never be for fun, they better come up with a good, logical reason why I should think the same way.


Marriage was different a couple thousand years ago. A woman was basically owned by her father. That's where the whole idea of a dowry comes in, you're buying the girl from the father to marry her, which essentially made her your property. If you had sex with a girl you weren't married to, fine, but you owed her father the cost of a virgin. That's why it was looked down on, because if you're not married to her, you're decreasing her value. Today, where both the men and women get their choice of who to marry, and dowry's don't really exist anymore, this idea sounds ridiculous and controlling. 1-2,000 years ago, you didn't have sex outside of marriage because that meant you were having sex with a woman that wasn't yours. (Yeah, this is how far women's equality has come)

Adultery was most likely looked down on by all the religions back then based mainly on the fact that by definition, at the time, adultery was specifically sex with another man's wife. That was the only possible criteria for adultery. If you were married and had sex with a girl that wasn't, fine... But now you probably owe her father food, animals, or money. If you were a married woman, by definition adultery was impossible.

These topics are tough because we're looking at the world 2,000 years ago as the world that it is today. We quote religion to claim that everyone is equal, yet equality and freedom for women is less than 100 years old in most of the world. In some countries, they still work the same way... Arranged marriages, buying your wife, etc., except now, women get to enjoy freedom and choices in life, but while still holding on to old traditions. We also LOVE to misquote things that are said in religion. We quote a single line, ignoring the 2 page long story that puts a specific context to it.

Sex was OK, just understand what sex with a random girl probably meant.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 141
Religion and dating
Posted: 11/5/2014 6:38:03 PM
Imagine living in a culture that believes in Divine Right, and there's no police force. In other words, you think the crops will come in if the ruler is chosen by God, and that is determined by bloodline.

would it make sense to make a rule that the Queen can't sleep around? don't want any ba$tards on the throne, the crops are relying on that one.

Now imagine you own some property, and you pass on. Who does the property go to? would it make sense to have a rule your wife doesn't sleep around? Let's say you got that property b/c near your retirement age, you sold your daughter's body for a dowry, since there wasn't much in the way of SS or pension plans. would it make sense to make a bunch of rules that some peasant can't poke your daughter?

without a police force, who's going to enforce any of these codes? well, we could make them religious codes. Break the law about stealing from another, and you don't get into heaven. Heck, you could look at a lot of the Ten Commandments, and say, "if I was going to create a society, I'd want these rules to keep people from fckin'around with other people, and causing fights as a result. and I'd have to include a rule saying the Diety that says "don't do this" is worth worshipping and respecting. Respect the authority, respect the rules."

as for spilling your seed on the soil, yeah, it seems silly to use the pleasure of sex to only have a bunch of children who will need to be fed...unless the infant mortality rate is high. Plus there weren't automatic weapons back then--one bowman or one knight (who may be as young as a teenager, hence able to fight on a hot summer day in all that armour) bascially was good for one "shot". 300 armed members of a tribe that didn't get their crops this year, coming over the hill wouldn't get taken out by 20 spear-throwers. Now thanks to technology, one fellow can launch an RPG or some other bomb that takes out a small crowd--we've "force-multiplied".
 mike11091
Joined: 8/25/2013
Msg: 142
Religion and dating
Posted: 11/5/2014 7:39:41 PM
Your definition of dowry is inaccurate.

The dowry was a gift to start a new family, not paid to the father of the bride, but FROM the father of the bride.

Go ahead, I'll wait while you google it. The definition of the word "dowry" is:


property or money brought by a bride to her husband on their marriage


Archaic as it was, this was to ensure that the woman went off to (normally) a better-off man. This was normally arranged by the parents long before the would-be couple would meet because it would grant the would-be bride's parents better stature in society. (even back then women were social climbers! <---a joke)

As property, and as bad as this is going to sound, the more a woman was "used" the lower her value and the greater her dowry would have to be. It was not a religious practice.

Men were often encouraged to seek release. It was only frowned upon for a woman to do so because it would lower her value.

With that said, I do agree that the Bible itself is...not something to swear by. (oh, blasphemy!). It's written by man. The bible wasn't handed down from God. It was written by 40 men...A LONG time ago. You'll have to excuse me if I don't live my life according to a book that's thousands of years old. Lastly, a religion founded by one's mother is not saying much. My mother could probably found a religion based off of me (she's terribly proud of me).

But the good Catholic that I am (haha), I still carry around a "Arch Angel Michael" Medallion because there are things to learn from the bible. (Plus he has a sword!)
 pureandsimple4172
Joined: 5/2/2014
Msg: 143
Religion and dating
Posted: 11/6/2014 6:21:19 AM
It sounds like you have it all figured out. Good for you!!

The Catholic Church has been around for 1,900+ years. You have probably been around for about 40.
I have no doubt you are in a Catholic Church every Sunday learning about Catholicism. You probably have a Catholic Catechism next to your computer. That is where you are getting your answers no doubt.

If you have such utter disdain for Christianity and Catholicism, instead of criticizing, maybe you should move to a country that does not allow such goofiness.
 rockin-trucker82
Joined: 1/4/2014
Msg: 144
Religion and dating
Posted: 11/6/2014 3:02:38 PM
Yeah, I had the wrong word. I forget the exact name. The guy did actually have to "buy" the girl to marry her though.
 DragonBits
Joined: 1/6/2012
Msg: 145
Religion and dating
Posted: 11/6/2014 3:35:06 PM
^^^ The bride price, in Jewish tradition a ketubah, in Thailand a sin sod, I am sure there are many other names.

But it's also sort of like an advance divorce payment. The theory being, if you leave your wife, then the parents have money to help her. It also ensure that the groom was financially stable, and it's thought that this show you are serious, hardworking, and there to stay.
 naysaying_knicktwist
Joined: 11/19/2009
Msg: 146
Religion and dating
Posted: 11/7/2014 8:12:06 AM
Posted by Supersoulson
Well OP, to answer your question …. I don’t mean to brag but I used to date the most gorgeous women on the planet every night and they couldn’t get enough of me, what can I say ? But then I found the most AMAZING woman, and of course it should go without saying but I just can’t resist letting you know that yes, she is one of the most gorgeous woman on the planet ! Not only that but she wants it constantly ! And of course, I am able to give it to her constantly because I am so amazing !

So, in conclusion OP, I think you should just ask her how strong her religious convictions are.

heheh heh


Hahahahaha. Oh mercy. You nailed it. Thank you for this, Supersoulson. ;-)
 Dan198508
Joined: 11/7/2014
Msg: 147
Religion and dating
Posted: 11/13/2014 8:53:39 PM

So I have a date this coming Sunday, she happens to be a Christian and I'm an atheist.
When we first started talking I didn’t even notice the religion, a few days later it actually took me by surprise seeing it on the profile. The more I think about this the more of an issue it seems to be becoming for me.
What would you do? I'm now in two mind about actually going ahead with the date.


She's probably identifying as a group and probably isn't practicing, but, if she thinks that Jesus is God and that the trinity is the father son and holy spirit, and insists on religion, just ask her this, with the exact wording, don't interpolate or fancy it:


If you can show me anywhere in the Bible where Jesus himself said that "I am God" or where he said "worship me" and I am willing to accept christianity today.


If she pulls out John 10:30 "I and my father are one" you explain to her that Jesus meant he is one in purpose.
 Tarnished_Knight
Joined: 3/5/2009
Msg: 148
view profile
History
Religion and dating
Posted: 11/13/2014 9:58:59 PM
Dan,

You can twist scripture around all you want; but if you were to continue reading you would notice in the very next line the Jews were getting ready to stone Jesus for the line you quoted. If Jesus was only saying He and The Father were of one purpose the Jews would have been applauding in agreement. Instead, the Jews understood Jesus to be saying that He and God were one in the same, that Jesus was God, which was blasphemy - hence the attempt to stone.

TK
 Dan198508
Joined: 11/7/2014
Msg: 149
Religion and dating
Posted: 11/14/2014 6:22:36 AM
Trust me, the jews hated Jesus for a panoply of reasons, him calling them wicked and adulterous in Matthew 16:4, snakes in Matthew 23:33...and the jews were not a people to forget insults in a hurry, so they surround him, brandishing fingers in his face, trying to put up a fight with him and give him a good beating, BEFORE he said John 10:30.

And Jesus said I told you! John 14:28 My father is greater than I, John 10:29 My father is greater than all, Matthew 12:28 , I cast out devil with the spirit of God, Luke 11:20, I with the finger of God cast out devil, John 5:30, I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Does that sound like God to you? I seek not MY will but the will of MY FATHER. He TOLD the jews billions of times that he was not God, even before resurecting Lazarus, he was groaning...oh my father, oh my father...he was parying onto God, for, he didn't want the people that stood by to believe that he was actually the doer of these miracles.
 Tarnished_Knight
Joined: 3/5/2009
Msg: 150
view profile
History
Religion and dating
Posted: 11/14/2014 10:33:34 PM
Dan,

you need to spend more time i the Word.
First, the the Jews did not hate, despise, etc., Jesus. The Jewish leader (Sadducees, Rabbis, and the like) were opposed to Jesus due to his verbal and spiritual attacks on their leadership. The religious chains the spiritual leaders enslaved the people with were sufficient that the The Son of Man was rightfully (and need I say, righteously) angry. Read the sections describing His rage in the Temple square.

The Jewish people loved Jesus: at the start of Passover in the the 3rd year of His ministry to the nation of Israel the people shouted Hosanna! Hosanna! as He entered the city of Jerusalem. And yet 3 days later he was crucified. Part of the problem Jesus had with the people and the leadership (and within His own disciples) was how He was viewed: was Jesus a (military/civil) leader of the people who would lead an uprising and free the Jews from Roman oppression, or was He a spiritual leader who would lead the people in a great revival.

Or, was Jesus something more?

2000 years later that question has been answered in the latter.
I think it can be claimed, rightfully, that Jesus is the one true Once and Future King.

TK
 Dan198508
Joined: 11/7/2014
Msg: 151
Religion and dating
Posted: 11/15/2014 7:22:15 AM
Brother, I have provided 8 references in my post, chapter number, verse number. You have provided 0 references to back up your claims. Are we supposed to take your word for it? The references are so that people reading this topic can VERIFY that what you say is true, and judge themselves who is right.

Between you and me, we may not need references when we talk because when you speak of something which is in the Bible I will probably know what chapter/verse that is, but others reading this topic don't. The Bible is a big book, so give references so others may verify that these are not your own words.

I did not wish to have a scriptural debate here because I do not wish to hurt anyone's feelings, but if you do, please play by the rules. Who needs to spend more time in the Word? I who give references, or you?
 bluemoon24_7
Joined: 4/18/2014
Msg: 152
Religion and dating
Posted: 11/15/2014 8:02:21 AM
You do realize it's just a book, right? A book written by ordinary men, telling stories. Some stories may be true, some exaggerated and some might not be true at all. Also, who's interpretation and who's translation? Just a book. This thread is not about scripture, the bible, debate on the book. It's a question regarding a non believer dating a believer. This is an everyday issue with those in the dating world.
 Dan198508
Joined: 11/7/2014
Msg: 153
Religion and dating
Posted: 11/15/2014 8:10:34 AM
^ Yes, I'm an atheist, but Tarnished_Knight is a believer (believes that Jesus is God) and we were having a debate. I simply asked him, why does he believe that Jesus is God if Jesus never claimed divinity in the Bible?

So I was hoping that he could provide a reference from the Bible where Jesus himself says I am God or where he says worship me, in order to backup his beliefs.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 154
Religion and dating
Posted: 11/15/2014 12:14:51 PM

So I was hoping that he could provide a reference from the Bible where Jesus himself says I am God or where he says worship me, in order to backup his beliefs.


I don't think they had tape recorders or any audio-video equipment back then, so anybody can do the "He said blah, blah, blah" routine that proves nothing. I've seen recent articles that said religious scholars have found evidence that Jesus was married and had kids. Is that noted in the Bible, as well as what happened to the family? Somebody would have an interesting family tree/lineage. It's time to go on Ancestry.com
 mike11091
Joined: 8/25/2013
Msg: 155
Religion and dating
Posted: 11/15/2014 12:42:46 PM

Jesus was married and had kids. Is that noted in the Bible, as well as what happened to the family?


The church will always refute such claims. In 2014 they found a scroll that had text of Jesus referring to a wife, but disproved it's validity based off of handwriting.

It's a working theory right now, but a good one. No reference in the bible. The church believes Jesus to be all holy. If he had a family or a bloodline, it would somehow make him not the son of God. I'm not religious enough to embellish further.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 156
Religion and dating
Posted: 11/15/2014 9:00:11 PM
Worse, decendants will have claim to property. Priests used to get married, until their offspring claimed land, and in feudal times, land was power. Can you just imagine all those court cases, around the world, on the Vatican and Eastern Orthodox and....
 norwegianguy123
Joined: 10/27/2014
Msg: 157
Religion and dating
Posted: 11/19/2014 10:57:31 PM

I don't think they had tape recorders or any audio-video equipment back then, so anybody can do the "He said blah, blah, blah" routine that proves nothing.

Yeah, but all he's asking is for even just such claims in Bible. When even a mystical middle-eastern religious book like the Bible runs short of such claims made by said supposed deity, then a believer who claims Jesus is God kind of has to question his position ("But I was raised that way!" "My preacher told me!" "Are you questioning millions of Christians?!")

Most religionists don't follow their ancient (pre-printed/changed/modified) religious books much when it boils down to it -- they follow their Religion as expressed... for social acceptance, peace, to avoid loneliness that's social or cosmic.
 ccourier51
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 159
view profile
History
Religion and dating
Posted: 11/30/2014 5:39:12 PM
I am a church goer. I have dated church and none. It did not effect me at all. Since it does you. You might want to go ahead and tell her what is on your mind.
 Dan198508
Joined: 11/7/2014
Msg: 160
Religion and dating
Posted: 11/30/2014 8:02:43 PM
John 14:6 is what you're looking for.


But he IS the way. Look at it in the context. The disciples of Jesus misunderstood everything the Master taught them. John 14:2 and 4 reads:

"My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?"

"You know the way to the place where I am going."

And then, idiotic Thomas replies ( appologies) who didn't understand a word of what Jesus just said:

"Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"

Thomas is thinking of a geographical location, New Jersey, Paris, London, he's thinking of a physical travel because he has a low IQ! He doesn't understand that the Master is speaking of a spiritual travel! So Thomas is telling Jesus look, we don't know where you are going so how can we know the way??

He is misunderstanding, Jesus talks of spiritual matters and Thomas thinks of geographical matters. So Jesus tells him in John 14:6:

"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

It means look at me (Jesus). The way to God is personified in me (Jesus). The Truth is personified in me (Jesus)! If you follow me (Jesus) you will reach your destination. Does that mean follow Jesus like, if Jesus goes to New York, you follow him to New York? NO! It means he's a model to follow! A spiritual model. And AGAIN THEY MISUNDERSTOOD! It was too heavy for them to bare. And Jesus was fed up, no matter what he told them they didn't understand! Jesus tells them in John 16: 12:

"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come."

What does that MEAN? It means: You guys are too idiotic to understand me, wait for the spirit and the spirit will guide you. He was literally mocking them, he was fed up with them. If Jesus talked to sheep, the sheep would have understood him better. A bunch of idiots.

Then, as if Thomas' stupidity was not enough to call it a day, Phillip makes an even more idiotic statement, in John 14:8 which says:

"Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."

What Jesus was saying to them was too heavy to bear, so, they go like, ok man, whatever, just show us God and that will do. Again, Jesus was overwhelmed by the stupidity around him. It is in Matthew 13:13:

"This is why I speak to them in parables: "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand."

So you understand now why you cannot take Jesus' parables ad literam, because Jesus was using them to cope with his disciples' stupidity, and he did NOT meant for them to be taken ad literam!

I could go on talking about this in a 60,000 words book and not be done with it so I'll stop here.

Again I mean no offense. It's my way of debating :)
 Bachelorette.Number1
Joined: 4/18/2013
Msg: 161
Religion and dating
Posted: 11/30/2014 8:39:47 PM
These posts that bring up any religion always turn into this.....umm, no one's going to change another's mind here people.

As to the original question - I say don't go on your date if it turns you off to this extent.

And by the way, did it occur to you that she may not be too happy with the idea of spending her life (since we've gone there already and haven't laid eyes on her yet...) with someone outside her own religion as well?
 Dan198508
Joined: 11/7/2014
Msg: 162
Religion and dating
Posted: 12/19/2014 8:43:09 AM

These posts that bring up any religion always turn into this.....umm, no one's going to change another's mind here people.


No I am changing the mind. Because I'm not talking to the Christian in terms of atoms and quantum physics, I quote from his Bible, chapter number verse number to show he/she misunderstood the context.

^_^
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