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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Mass Shooting at Colo. Movie Theater, 12 People Dead[CLOSED ]      Home login  
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 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 51
Mass Shooting at Colo. Movie Theater, 12 People DeadPage 3 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
OMG!! Will the misinformation never end?

"There are more guns in this world then there are people"

There are 7 BILLION people in this world, in private hands there are only(although far too many) 800 million guns. Now I suppose if we add in the arms in the various militaries, which have approximately 25 million members worldwide, we could add another 50 million guns to that, giving each 2 guns. So much for as many guns as people in the world...

Now comparing guns to drugs is not an apt comparison, addicts crave drugs..not everyone who owns a gun is an addict, although sometimes I think that...

The point is, restrict the sale of the most deadly forms...automatic weapons and large capacity magazines...make the penalties heinous for those who are found with them...improving the firing time without having to reload, is the critical part of these shootings...

I'm sure the gun owners "get off" playing rambo on the range, the problem is the wacko's play rambo in crowded places with peoples lives...
 Blalah
Joined: 3/25/2012
Msg: 52
Mass Shooting at Colo. Movie Theater, 12 People Dead
Posted: 7/20/2012 6:45:42 PM
Talk about misinformation.



And, sorry, but it's got to be asked, did Limbaugh's nonsensical ranting about Bane/Bain have anything to do with the shooters motivation?


Fvcking discusting comment.
But I know - you just need someone to react to your blame the right wing mentality to make yourself feel valid.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 53
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Mass Shooting at Colo. Movie Theater, 12 People Dead
Posted: 7/20/2012 6:49:57 PM
this isnt really the time or the place for this but if you want
to pm me i will discuss thsi with you.

colonel gaddafi was the main supplier

– The Libyan government supplied the IRA with the majority of its weapons ... They found five tonnes of weaponry supplied by the Libyan ...

but as i said this isnae the time or place
 Irish Eyez
Joined: 12/30/2008
Msg: 54
Mass Shooting at Colo. Movie Theater, 12 People Dead
Posted: 7/20/2012 6:54:05 PM
Being I am from Northern Ireland originally and have lived through the 'troubles', have witnessed what many will never see in their life time. I have seen bodies, pieces of bodies, bodies riddled with bullets or blown to bits because of a bomb blast. I have witnessed buildings demolished, firemen washing blood and guts from a wall and so much more. All through the eyes of a child.

I recall being in Boston a few years ago, watching a guy standing outside a McDonald's, shaking a tin and asking for money to support the IRA.

Muammar Gaddafi of Libya supported the IRA with weapons.

Also, google Ted Kennedy and Noraid.

Edit: I see Vlad and I both posted about Gaddafi at the same time.

I am so sorry and disgusted at the same time to learn about the atrocity in CO.

As for the young lady who was killed at the cinema and narrowly missed the Eaton Center shooting in Toronto, how terribly sad. What are the chances....
 hoopsnhikes
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 55
Mass Shooting at Colo. Movie Theater, 12 People Dead
Posted: 7/20/2012 7:01:37 PM

And, sorry, but it's got to be asked, did Limbaugh's nonsensical ranting about Bane/Bain have anything to do with the shooters motivation?

It only has to be asked if your first reaction to a tragedy such as this is to see how you can exploit it to score a few political points.


Well OyVay... looks like your post was somewhat prophetic... Sure didn't take long for the "OK Corral" crowd to start crowing...

I'm not sure how "prophetic" it was, when HE brought it up, and openly baited people to respond by referring to them as "wackos."


Here's something for the ones I quoted... Think you can POSSIBLY, just possibly, show a little sensitivity first, show a little bit of compassion, BEFORE you start screeching about gun rights and "wild west" scenarios...?

So it's ok for the poster who brought it up to talk about it, complete with name calling. But for those who respond to that post, they are the ones that need to show compassion and not go down that road? Give me a break.

And you give a free pass in your lecture to post # 3 as well.

Could you POSSIBLY, just possibly, apply the same standards to those whose views you agree with?

Nah, I didn't think so...
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 56
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Mass Shooting at Colo. Movie Theater, 12 People Dead
Posted: 7/20/2012 7:24:39 PM
I meant to say America.


Now comparing guns to drugs is not an apt comparison, addicts crave drugs..not everyone who owns a gun is an addict, although sometimes I think that...


Yes you actually can if someone wants one bad enough they are going to get it regardless if you try to control it or not illegal arms trades is a prime example of that. We have spent billions trying to control the illegal arms trade coming in here from south america and north korea and we have failed at trying to control it. So It doesn't matter if it is a substance or a weapon, trying to control something in a large scale has never worked, because in reality you can't or else we would have been able to stop illegal trades long ago. You can try your best to reduce it but you will never be able to control it.

Not going to work Mexico and Clombia are a prime example of strict gun control countries and like i said that hasn't stopped the flow of gun violence in any of those countries, criminals don't care about laws. if they don't care about taking an innocent life to get what they want they sure the hell aren't going to care about any other law.
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 57
Mass Shooting at Colo. Movie Theater, 12 People Dead
Posted: 7/20/2012 7:41:10 PM
Not going to work Mexico and Clombia are a prime example of strict gun control countries

I find it interesting that you chose to use two of the most corrupt countries in the western hemisphere, where enough money (and "enough" isn't very much) can get just about anything you want overlooked as your examples of gun control countries...

I wonder how well your example would hold up if you had to rely on countries that were equally or less corrupt than the US... Actually, I don't wonder to deeply as I already have a pretty good idea how that would turn out and I don't think it would work in your favor... I suspect what you will find is that, even though gun control isn't as effective as they would like it still produces better results than little to no control... I also suspect that you will find a fairly direct relationship between corruption and the effectiveness of gun control efforts...
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 58
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Mass Shooting at Colo. Movie Theater, 12 People Dead
Posted: 7/20/2012 7:52:47 PM
I find it interesting that you chose to use two of the most corrupt countries in the western hemisphere, where enough money (and "enough" isn't very much) can get just about anything you want overlooked as your examples of gun control countries...


So what you are saying is corrupt people and criminals don't care about laws? I had no idea. Who knew. lol So there you have it no matter what policy you put in place controlling something isn't going to stop them. I bring up those two countries as a prime of example of having innocent people being stripped of their right to have fire arms while criminals and drug lords don't care about laws and continue to take over many parts of that country by using guns to their advantage over innocent people that cannot defend themself in the same manner.

I wonder how well your example would hold up if you had to rely on countries that were equally or less corrupt than the US... Actually, I don't wonder to deeply as I already have a pretty good idea how that would turn out and I don't think it would work in your favor... I suspect what you will find is that, even though gun control isn't as effective as they would like it still produces better results than little to no control...


Hmm ok...


The number of well-publicized public shootings during the past few years, especially the tragedy at Columbine High School, has re-energized the gun control movement. As a show of strength, a coalition of gun control groups has organized a "Million Mom March" to be held in Washington, D.C. on Mother's Day, an event designed to stir up emotions rather than promote rational thought. And when one looks at the facts about gun control, it's easy to see why the anti-gun lobby relies on emotion rather than logic to make its case.

Think you know the facts about gun control? If your only source of information is the mainstream media, what you think you know may not be correct.

1. Thousands of children die annually in gun accidents.

David Lampo is the publications director at the Cato Institute.

False. Gun accidents involving children are actually at record lows, although you wouldn't know it from listening to the mainstream media. In 1997, the last year for which data are available, only 142 children under 15 years of age died in gun accidents, and the total number of gun-related deaths for this age group was 642. More children die each year in accidents involving bikes, space heaters or drownings. The often repeated claim that 12 children per day die from gun violence includes "children" up to 20 years of age, the great majority of whom are young adult males who die in gang-related violence.

2. Gun shows are responsible for a large number of firearms falling into the hands of criminals.

False. Contrary to President Clinton's claims, there is no "gun show loophole." All commercial arms dealers at gun shows must run background checks, and the only people exempt from them are the small number of non-commercial sellers. According to the U.S. Department of Justice, at most 2 percent of guns used by criminals are purchased at gun shows, and most of those were purchased legally by people who passed background checks.

3. The tragedy at Columbine High School a year ago illustrates the deficiencies of current gun control laws.

False. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold violated close to 20 firearms laws in amassing their cache of weapons (not to mention the law against murder), so it seems rather dubious to argue that additional laws might have prevented this tragedy. The two shotguns and rifle used by Harris and Klebold were purchased by a girlfriend who would have passed a background check, and the TEC-9 handgun used by them was already illegal.

4. States that allow registered citizens to carry concealed weapons have lower crime rates than those that don't.

True. The 31 states that have "shall issue" laws allowing private citizens to carry concealed weapons have, on average, a 24 percent lower violent crime rate, a 19 percent lower murder rate and a 39 percent lower robbery rate than states that forbid concealed weapons. In fact, the nine states with the lowest violent crime rates are all right-to-carry states. Remarkably, guns are used for self-defense more than 2 million times a year, three to five times the estimated number of violent crimes committed with guns.

5. Waiting periods lower crime rates.

False. Numerous studies have been conducted on the effects of waiting periods, both before and after the federal Brady bill was passed in 1993. Those studies consistently show that there is no correlation between waiting periods and murder or robbery rates. Florida State University professor Gary Kleck analyzed data from every U.S. city with a population over 100,000 and found that waiting periods had no statistically significant effect. Even University of Maryland anti-gun researcher David McDowell found that "waiting periods have no influence on either gun homicides or gun suicides."

6. Lower murder rates in foreign countries prove that gun control works.

False. This is one of the favorite arguments of gun control proponents, and yet the facts show that there is simply no correlation between gun control laws and murder or suicide rates across a wide spectrum of nations and cultures. In Israel and Switzerland, for example, a license to possess guns is available on demand to every law-abiding adult, and guns are easily obtainable in both nations. Both countries also allow widespread carrying of concealed firearms, and yet, admits Dr. Arthur Kellerman, one of the foremost medical advocates of gun control, Switzerland and Israel "have rates of homicide that are low despite rates of home firearm ownership that are at least as high as those in the United States." A comparison of crime rates within Europe reveals no correlation between access to guns and crime.

The basic premise of the gun control movement, that easy access to guns causes higher crime, is contradicted by the facts, by history and by reason. Let's hope more people are catching on.

http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/gun-control-myths-realities
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 59
Mass Shooting at Colo. Movie Theater, 12 People Dead
Posted: 7/20/2012 7:57:45 PM

Not going to work Mexico and Clombia are a prime example of strict gun control countries and like i said that hasn't stopped the flow of gun violence in any of those countries, criminals don't care about laws. if they don't care about taking an innocent life to get what they want they sure the hell aren't going to care about any other law.

The main reason guns flow so easy in those countries is the US manufactures are supplying the demand.


Though to use Mexico and Columbia as fair comparisons to the USA with regards to gun control laws shows a flaw in your ability to understand the major difference between the countries and the social systems each one has in place.


Canada would be a much better example of a country that has stricter gun control laws.
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 60
Mass Shooting at Colo. Movie Theater, 12 People Dead
Posted: 7/20/2012 8:00:46 PM
Wait a minute i thought gun control is the end all to be all to controlling gun violence no matter what country it is.

Ummm... and who said that...? I think that is something you've pretty much made up in your own mind...

Hmm ok...

And what follows...

You do realize that you still haven't answered the question... or even come close to it... go back and read it again...

Oh, and just as a note to your buddies at Cato Inst. ... Swiss rates of gun ownership aren't even close to the US... the US rate is almost double the Swiss rate... Swiss=45.7 per 100, US=88.8 per hundred...
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 61
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Mass Shooting at Colo. Movie Theater, 12 People Dead
Posted: 7/20/2012 8:06:47 PM
The main reason guns flow so easy in those countries is the US manufactures are supplying the demand.


Um speaking about flaw in your ablity to understand you do realize most of the illegal arms flow coming into those countries are either from clombia in which they make their own weapons or North Korea in which supplies shipments to those countries. Not the U.S.




Though to use Mexico and Columbia as fair comparisons to the USA with regards to gun control laws shows a flaw in your ability to understand the major difference between the countries and the social systems each one has in place.


How is it flawed when innocent people aren't able to own guns while criminals and drug lords dimiss those laws and run rampid in those countries?




Ummm... and who said that...? I think that is something you've pretty much made up in your own mind..


My mind? Nope i think in reality sorry. I don't live in la la land where people think by controlling something on a large scale that will somehow stop it.




You do realize that you still haven't answered the question... or even come close to it... go back and read it again...


I guess you didn't read the last paragragh did you about pro gun countries assuming to having a hire murder rates then gun control countries which is actually false. So yeah i actually did when you compared countries with gun control vs countries without gun control in which the last paragraph showed that's false.

Here i'll post it again.



6. Lower murder rates in foreign countries prove that gun control works.

False. This is one of the favorite arguments of gun control proponents, and yet the facts show that there is simply no correlation between gun control laws and murder or suicide rates across a wide spectrum of nations and cultures. In Israel and Switzerland, for example, a license to possess guns is available on demand to every law-abiding adult, and guns are easily obtainable in both nations. Both countries also allow widespread carrying of concealed firearms, and yet, admits Dr. Arthur Kellerman, one of the foremost medical advocates of gun control, Switzerland and Israel "have rates of homicide that are low despite rates of home firearm ownership that are at least as high as those in the United States." A comparison of crime rates within Europe reveals no correlation between access to guns and crime.



 Tarnished_Knight
Joined: 3/5/2009
Msg: 62
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Mass Shooting at Colo. Movie Theater, 12 People Dead
Posted: 7/20/2012 8:09:17 PM

--could be that if we were more accustomed to open carry and folks less afraid of firearms, someone in the crowd could have taken the guy out before 14 lost their lives and more injured. Yep, I'm a gun rights wacko. :))


stargazin53 and all you other gun rights wackos out there THANK YOU

I often wonder, and it has been often pointed out, why don't these blood thirsty lunatics take their "sport" into police stations and shoot those places up and get their trophies that way? Oh Yeah, the police are ARMED. All these slaughters occur in places were the populace is UNARMED. Even on the base in Texas the policy was for non MP personnel to be UNARMED. It's like fishing in a barrel.

Now if the populace was armed, not all, 10 - 25 %, the tables would be turned.

John Lott, "More Guns, Less Crime"

TK

[1 desert eagle -> 2 dead - first victim + gunman]
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 63
Mass Shooting at Colo. Movie Theater, 12 People Dead
Posted: 7/20/2012 8:13:01 PM
So yeah i actually did when you compared countries with gun control vs countries without gun control in which the last paragraph showed that's false.

Here i'll post it again.

Ummm... That still doesn't answer the question... Go back and read the point again...

And I'll repost this point again...

Oh, and just as a note to your buddies at Cato Inst. ... Swiss rates of gun ownership aren't even close to the US... the US rate is almost double the Swiss rate... Swiss=45.7 per 100, US=88.8 per hundred...

Of course the Swiss murder rate is lower, there are only half the guns per person... Oh, and your boys at Cato are looking at all crime when they compare crime rates across Europe, not strictly gun crime...
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 64
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Mass Shooting at Colo. Movie Theater, 12 People Dead
Posted: 7/20/2012 8:18:17 PM
so now this is the point when you were arguing about gun control and how countries that have gun control are assumingly to have lower murder rates when i actually did show you that was false in which was the question at hand and now we jump to this Swiss question? Ok what does this have to do with murder rats automaticly assuming to be lower in gun control countries in which guns are supposed to be the main focus of making up for murders in a country here...
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 65
Mass Shooting at Colo. Movie Theater, 12 People Dead
Posted: 7/20/2012 8:20:05 PM
You know, I was tempted to post based on that incredibly stupid Cato Institute drivel. It's just so dumb I can't believe anyone couldn't see through it.

Then you reposted some of it. So.....


A comparison of crime rates within Europe reveals no correlation between access to guns and crime.

So, with the exception of Switzerland, which countries was he comparing? Comparison WITHIN Europe. Because if you compared say Germany or the UK with the United States, you'd find a DIRECT correlation between access to guns and crime. Except for Switzerland, all of Western Europe has roughly equivalent gun laws. Hey, you don't even need to go that far. Canada and the US has the same urban/rural mix; same level of ethnic diversity; same immigration rates; we even watch the same television shows. What could account for the huge disparity in gun crime between our countries? Don't tell me. It'll come to me.
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 66
Mass Shooting at Colo. Movie Theater, 12 People Dead
Posted: 7/20/2012 8:20:19 PM
so now this is the point when you were arguming abount gun control and how countries that have gun control are assuming to have lower murder rates

Where did I say that...?!? Go back and ACTUALLY READ the point... when you have done that, quote for me where I said what you claim I said...

edit:

Ok what does this have to do with murder rats automaticly assuming to be lower in gun control countries in which guns are supposed to be the main focus of making up for murders in a country here...

I've already pointed out that US gun ownership rates are almost double the Swiss... well guess what...? US murder rates are almost double the Swiss as well... Isn't that a neat little correlation...? The Swiss have almost half the guns, almost half the gun deaths and similar laws...
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 67
Mass Shooting at Colo. Movie Theater, 12 People Dead
Posted: 7/20/2012 8:23:01 PM

How is it flawed when innocent people aren't able to own guns while criminals and drug lords dimiss those laws and run rampid in those countries?

Because those countries are run by the criminals.

Those countries are in no way like the USA from either socially and economically, thus you are drawing erroneous conclusions.
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 68
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Mass Shooting at Colo. Movie Theater, 12 People Dead
Posted: 7/20/2012 8:26:05 PM
I wonder how well your example would hold up if you had to rely on countries that were equally or less corrupt than the US


i did and i'll say it again i know what you are getting at and those countries have had like i said laws in place to control guns with ther latest attacks on gangs in their country and even with gun control in place in those countries have not made any diff or has the attempts by their gov to try to control those types of violence like we have seen in mexico recently to control the gun violence there for the past 4 years by the gov it doesn't matter it isn't going to stop criminals no matter what laws you put in place.


Because those countries are run by the criminals


Hmmm well who are they then, cause i've looked everywhere and haven't seen a drug lord running their country.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 69
Mass Shooting at Colo. Movie Theater, 12 People Dead
Posted: 7/20/2012 8:29:10 PM

i did and i'll say it again i know what you are getting at and those countries have had like i said laws in place to control gun violence with ther latest attacks on gangs in their country and even with gun control in place in those countries they have not made any diff or has the attempts by their gov like we have seen in mexico recently to control the gun violence there.

So you are saying that the USA and Mexico are alike enough from a socio-economic standpoint to be able to make the assumption that the laws would not work in the USA because they have not worked in Mexico?
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 70
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Mass Shooting at Colo. Movie Theater, 12 People Dead
Posted: 7/20/2012 8:33:49 PM
So you are saying that the USA and Mexico are alike enough from a socio-economic standpoint to be able to make the assumption that the laws would not work in the USA because they have not worked in Mexico?

It won't if the U.S. has spent billions of dollars trying to control the illegal arms trade coming into this country and it has yet to get that segment of arms trade undercontrol, how is any other law going to prevent guns from floating around in this country if we can't even get illegal firearms under control coming into other countries.....
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 71
Mass Shooting at Colo. Movie Theater, 12 People Dead
Posted: 7/20/2012 8:34:24 PM

I wonder how well your example would hold up if you had to rely on countries that were equally or less corrupt than the US



i did and i'll say it again i know what you are getting at and those countries have had like i said laws in place to control gun violence with ther latest attacks on gangs in their country and even with gun control in place in those countries they have not made any diff or has the attempts by their gov like we have seen in mexico recently to control the gun violence there.

And, in those countries (Mexico, Colombia), the ones who are supposed to enforce the laws are as criminal as the criminals... You don't think that makes a big difference in the effectiveness of the law...?


No you missed the point i stated that they won't work as in controlling guns in this country with gun control laws. sure you can try to reduce it but you will never be able to control it.

And you don't think that reducing it is better than nothing at all...??? That shit like Aurora is, well, not worth trying to at least reduce...?
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 72
Mass Shooting at Colo. Movie Theater, 12 People Dead
Posted: 7/20/2012 8:37:49 PM

billions of dollars have been spent trying to control the illegal arms trade coming into this country and it has yet to get that segment of arms trade undercontrol.

According to who?

Do you have a source you can cite for this claim?
 BlokeInSydney
Joined: 5/7/2012
Msg: 73
Mass Shooting at Colo. Movie Theater, 12 People Dead
Posted: 7/20/2012 8:44:25 PM

There is no weakness in the argument that someone else being armed in that theater would be virtually worthless against an armored assailant. The obvious weakness in this thread so far is your bizarre contention that more armed people equals less crime or death. What a crock. More armed people means criminals will escalate their violence in response to the increased threat against them. That's just Human Nature 101.

You clearly have never been in combat or a gun battle where someone is actually shooting back at you. The default result is that more bullets fly - and miss - putting even more innocents at risk. The solution here would have had to involve actions taken before this psycho entered the theater, not after.

A possible solution, that you do not respect, is to actually make it harder for people to acquire assault rifles - which is the only weapon this guy used. Yes, they have been available for 'some time now'. Ya know why? Because the NRA keeps selling their happy horseshit that one MUST have an AR-15 to kill bambi - such is the apparent incompetence of the mighty hunter....

But you and I both know that's not the real reason to sell as many assault rifles as possible - or why politicians need to be bought by NRA lobbyists. The REAL reason is to take full advantage of the Frightened Little Man Syndrome. We should all be thankful for the strategy of encouraging chickenshits to carry guns. It gives us great Americans like George Zimmerman.

Yeah, let's make sure 10% of all movie goers now have assault rifles - with armor piercing bullets - at the next Ice Age movie. That's no doubt precisely what the framers of the constitution had in mind with a well-regulated militia.....

Brilliant post and one of the many reasons I prefer living right where I am. We have strict gun laws and we do not have a culture where everybody feels they have the right to carry around deadly weapons.
 Blalah
Joined: 3/25/2012
Msg: 74
Mass Shooting at Colo. Movie Theater, 12 People Dead
Posted: 7/20/2012 9:03:10 PM
^^I thought it was Rush Limbaugh's fault re: your post # 3.
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 75
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Mass Shooting at Colo. Movie Theater, 12 People Dead
Posted: 7/20/2012 9:03:52 PM

According to who?


ATF


Do you have a source you can cite for this claim?


Yeah i actually do but i'm still waiting on who these criminals that are running those two countries are that you speak about.
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