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 roadrunner2525
Joined: 2/12/2013
Msg: 89
Money Investing Suggestions WantedPage 5 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
If you are going to invest in real estate, do it because it is cheap and you know how to fix things yourself. I would suggest this to anyone whom has become a licensed plumber and also a licensed electrician. You could take a piece of shit house and make it really valuable and at the very least rentable. Investing in gold doesn't make sense because you can't eat gold and it is already trading high. When people say it represents some kind of safety because the dollar might fall apart I'm thinking yeah right. You are surrounded by thousands of angry starved people that want to kill you and you are safer because you own gold. I don't have money to invest but I believe the best idea is to invest in people. We are being scammed by the government for every single dollar. Insurance companies are set up by law which requires government approval so everyone likes to complain about Obama care like insurance companies had anything that wasn't corrupt to begin with. I study money hard and I see the dow jones 30 stocks as an index that is small enough to control and is probably never going to zero out. I think a large group of people should get together buy 10 shares of anything on the dow and wait for it to drop, buy 15 shares with the same amount of money and keep doing it until they can actually get a large trade done on a stock that keeps falling, then watch it rebound and everyone makes money.How do you get people to work together though, you can't so we are just going to keep letting the government and large corporations sell us out to China.
 Albvs
Joined: 2/14/2013
Msg: 90
Money Investing Suggestions Wanted
Posted: 2/28/2013 3:05:02 PM

if you had simply bought

Your assumption here is that the stock market will continue without interruption, no matter what. It's similar to saying that if you have casino chips in hand that they are worth something no matter what.

The poker chips are tokens and the only value they hold is if the casino decides to convert them into something else for you. You're gambling based upon the odds that they will stay in business long enough for that to occur. The same goes for a Chuck E Cheese token for their games. The same holds true for the U.S. (or any government's) paper currency. And the same goes for securities. They're pieces of paper.

I've owned worthless paper before. Imagine having 90,000 shares of private stock in a company that was started by a billionaire with no sense of making money. He doesn't have to, he has a billion dollars. Given that there's no market for those shares, combined with his inability to run a profitable company then you might as well have 90,000 Post-It notes. Imagine losing $40,000 overnight in you stock's value when the CEO and CFO of your company sold out overnight, yet again I was screwed because I believed in the system.

Gold is not a slip of paper. It doesn't rely upon the casino staying in business nor Chuck E Cheese nor the banks nor the United States, for that matter. It should continue to have value of some kind even if we're nuked back into the stone ages--presumably somebody will think it's shiny and want to make jewelry from it (or so history would suggest).

There is a reason why people buy gold when times are in turmoil. They do so because they don't believe in the ability of a particular government's currency to endure or perhaps they don't believe the same about their banks. The market decides the value of things and the market says that gold is and will continue to be a worthwhile investment. And by its very nature it isn't a slip of paper demanding you to believe in the solvency of institutions.
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 91
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History
Money Investing Suggestions Wanted
Posted: 2/28/2013 3:21:14 PM

Gold is not a slip of paper. It doesn't rely upon the casino staying in business nor Chuck E Cheese nor the banks nor the United States, for that matter. It should continue to have value of some kind even if we're nuked back into the stone ages--presumably somebody will think it's shiny and want to make jewelry from it (or so history would suggest).


Gold has limited use as an industrial commodity. As such, it is closer to a currency than a commodity. ie- it is a store of value and a medium of exchange.

Like all currencies- it's only worth something if people are willing to use it as a currency. Throughout history, people have used everything from seashells to silver (the origin of the GBP- ie pound sterling), to the fiat currencies. The only thing about Gold is that it's a lot harder to print, both physically and electronically. But it still relies on everyone regarding it as a currency, because it doesn't do anything on it's own.


Your assumption here is that the stock market will continue without interruption, no matter what. It's similar to saying that if you have casino chips in hand that they are worth something no matter what.

The poker chips are tokens and the only value they hold is if the casino decides to convert them into something else for you. You're gambling based upon the odds that they will stay in business long enough for that to occur. The same goes for a Chuck E Cheese token for their games. The same holds true for the U.S. (or any government's) paper currency. And the same goes for securities. They're pieces of paper.


A stock is a part ownership of a company. A company makes stuff that people actually need. It is only akin to a casino if you're valuing it purely as ticker symbols and lines on a chart.

A company is worth the sum of future cashflows discounted to present value. A stock is worth whatever portion of that it represents.
 OutofControlMan
Joined: 12/22/2011
Msg: 92
Money Investing Suggestions Wanted
Posted: 2/28/2013 3:29:36 PM

There is a reason why people buy gold when times are in turmoil.


to hold gold you must also make assumptions that "civilized society" and organized "markets" will continue to exist at least in some form, that police forces and courts will be able to enforce laws and keep a modicum of public order..otherwise someone will simply kill you for your gold and whatever else you have , that they want, if "everything falls apart" as you suggest may happen..you really believe that if millions are homeless starving , you will just stroll out down the street and trade gold for food & water, etc.?

and how much gold are you going to exchange for a loaf or 2 of bread-- if you can? shave off a few scrapings?

always go around with a scale capable of measuring in milligrams, and hope others have one, since they won't trust yours alone?

and you will have to deal with doubters since no doubt there will be scammers trying to pass of fake stuff as real gold, thus you will always have to "prove" that what you have its real gold, adding to transactions costs and time..it is is not very convenient for smaller transactions, and is quite heavy if you are forced to flee in a world without gasoline supplies or working roads, etc.

the ".999 Fine " stamp will be meaningless as anyone can fake one of those

VV

true but at least they were able to escape? we seemed to be drifting more to a discussion of "survival" than of keeping or holding on to accumulated wealth. your friend probably would have survived with or without this cache?

VV
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 93
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History
Money Investing Suggestions Wanted
Posted: 2/28/2013 3:34:22 PM

and organized "markets" will continue to exist at least in some form, that police forces and courts will be able to enforce laws and keep a modicum of public order..otherwise someone will simply kill you for your gold and whatever else you have , that they want, if "everything falls apart" as you suggest may happen..you really believe that if millions are homeless starving , you will just stroll out down the street and trade gold for food & water, etc.?


It depends if the whole world falls apart, or just one country.

A case in point- a family friend fled from Cambodia during the Khmer Rouge regime. They buried their lifesavings in gold and currency under a tree before fleeing. About 3yrs ago they finally returned and retrieved their life savings. That barbarous relic is still worth something. The old Khmer currency couldn't be used for toilet paper.

IMHO, gold will still have a value as a currency in our lifetimes. The tricky part is figuring out what it's worth.
 OutofControlMan
Joined: 12/22/2011
Msg: 94
Money Investing Suggestions Wanted
Posted: 2/28/2013 3:44:42 PM
^^

OK granted, but they had the foresight to flee, and maybe were "lucky" to some extent. had the Khmer caught them (and would probably have killed them ? ) all the gold in the world would be fairly useless.. ? I guess my point was that to depend on gold (or ANYTHING) as your be-all and end-all, as one's "savior" would be foolish.

contingency plans..

BTW , just because in HINDSIGHT an investment turned out well doesn't mean that you did not assume risk when you embarked on it.. it could have gone very badly, or very well, history at that time just made it turn out fairly well..not sure some people are understanding "risk": here.
"there was no risk because it went up .." ??

there was no risk to walking through Central park at 3 a.m. because I didn't get mugged the night I did it ? there was no risk for a specific soldier deployed to Afghanistan if (because) he returned ??


there was ZERO risk to Joe Bloggs because he returned unscathed, but 100% risk to John Smith because he died there? not really, both had a (let's assume) 5% risk at the time they deployed


IMHO, gold will still have a value as a currency in our lifetimes. The tricky part is figuring out what it's worth.


agreed. No DOUBT it will have some value, maybe even more than what it is currently trading for? although my bet is there will be a lot of volatility and we will see it drop a few hundred bucks an ounce before it goes higher..(in 5 years? 10? 20? 50?.) in any of our lifetimes?

the question is will it get up to $5,000/ounce within a few years as the rabid , "true-believer" gold-bugs who view gold as their '"religion" often espouse ? ..I highly doubt it. or the bigger question, will it be a good investment in the IMHO, it's OK for 1-10% of your net worth (assuming a fairly high net worth, around US $ 1/2 million or more excluding real estate) but NOT for the bulk of or 100% of your investable assets..


There is a reason why people buy gold when times are in turmoil.


by the time "times are in turmoil" it's a bit late isn't it? prices of gold are already pushed up very high ( as they are now)

wouldn't truly astute people buy gold when economic times seem great - "boom times" (and prices are low? - and maybe even sell when times seem in turmoil, (or just hold if so inclined) and prices are high for gold.. we can count on prices fluctuating..for the foreseeable future..

maybe the Rothschilds were dumb but they tended to act counter to prevailing "times" _ buy shares when the blood is running in the streets.. etc. ? sell when people are all fat and happy? buy when they cry? sell when they yell.
 roadrunner2525
Joined: 2/12/2013
Msg: 95
Money Investing Suggestions Wanted
Posted: 2/28/2013 3:59:25 PM
I have been reading the last three post on gold, so I would like to put my input on it. It is as good of an investment as any other investment maybe even better if someone has bought it a year ago but it is trading high and the rule is to buy low and sell high not buy high and hope that it goes higher. The point I was trying to make earlier is that some of the stuff on the stock market is a little safer to invest in. Widely held stocks like that in the dow 30 and the SandP 500 are pretty safe as a bet because they will last longer in an up and down type scenario. The danger in any stock is that it can fall below 5 bucks and be set for bankruptcy. The stock is then stolen from the share holders in bankruptcy, then the company comes back with the same name and offered again for trade. This is what happened to General Motors. Now it is a safe stock to trade again. The best way to make money in the stock market is to have unlimited funds. It would work out great for everyone if they put their money together to get the trade done. If I buy a stock at 50 and it drops to 45 then goes up to 46 then I keep the shares I bought at 50 and I sell the shares I bought at 45. All you need is a one point fluxuation to make money. How many stocks do you ever see go straight from 50 to 0. It just doesn't happen. Smart investors would not put all of their eggs in one basket, they would play solely for the purpose of winning. They would be in a stock at every level that it drops and they could afford to take the risk at all times.I have been watching the stock market for twenty five years and I have seen stocks drop to a lower level then go back and forth from that lower level several times. It takes an army to win a war.
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 96
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Money Investing Suggestions Wanted
Posted: 2/28/2013 4:01:05 PM

BTW , just because in HINDSIGHT an investment turned out well doesn't mean that you did not assume risk when you embarked on it.. it could have gone very badly, or very well, history at that time just made it turn out fairly well..not sure some people are understanding "risk": here.
"there was no risk because it went up .." ??


Here's a nice review of gold as an investment
http://tinyurl.com/c9aljjy
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 97
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Money Investing Suggestions Wanted
Posted: 2/28/2013 4:15:06 PM

I have been reading the last three post on gold, so I would like to put my input on it. It is as good of an investment as any other investment maybe even better if someone has bought it a year ago but it is trading high and the rule is to buy low and sell high not buy high and hope that it goes higher. The point I was trying to make earlier is that some of the stuff on the stock market is a little safer to invest in. Widely held stocks like that in the dow 30 and the SandP 500 are pretty safe as a bet because they will last longer in an up and down type scenario. The danger in any stock is that it can fall below 5 bucks and be set for bankruptcy. The stock is then stolen from the share holders in bankruptcy, then the company comes back with the same name and offered again for trade. This is what happened to General Motors. Now it is a safe stock to trade again. The best way to make money in the stock market is to have unlimited funds. It would work out great for everyone if they put their money together to get the trade done. If I buy a stock at 50 and it drops to 45 then goes up to 46 then I keep the shares I bought at 50 and I sell the shares I bought at 45. All you need is a one point fluxuation to make money. How many stocks do you ever see go straight from 50 to 0. It just doesn't happen. Smart investors would not put all of their eggs in one basket, they would play solely for the purpose of winning. They would be in a stock at every level that it drops and they could afford to take the risk at all times.I have been watching the stock market for twenty five years and I have seen stocks drop to a lower level then go back and forth from that lower level several times. It takes an army to win a war.


A stock price is meaningless with regards to the companies solvency. A billion dollar company with a single stock has a stock price of a billion dollars. Is it less likely to go bankrupt than if they divide it into a trillion shares and they sell for 0.1c?

The financial health of a company depends other things like the debt levels, debt coverage, margins, competitive advantage etc

Buying low/Selling high is only useful if you know what's low or high, and it's better than everyone elses opinion of what's low and high. What makes you think that gold was low last year? It was trading at several times the price of 10yrs before that. What makes you think it's high this year? The US money supply has also expanded a hugely in the last few years, and gold is priced in US$.
 roadrunner2525
Joined: 2/12/2013
Msg: 98
Money Investing Suggestions Wanted
Posted: 2/28/2013 4:24:24 PM
You are using statistics that can only be read. As a financial analyst you could put together all of the numbers, the debt levels, debt coverage etc. and be one hundred percent right that you would have an accurate reading on that company. But everyday the only thing that the stock market has proven to me is that they lie about all those numbers. Enron, case in point lied about the income and left the share holders nothing but a class action lawsuit that caused them to lose a lot of money. I am saying to take it as is, a dangerous game. People invest hoping to make money but they are usually playing with fire because these companies are corrupt as the day is long.I haven't been following the price of gold lately, like in the last few months but it was I think closer to 1500 a year ago.I am no expert on gold prices at all but I know it is going to fluctuate like everything else.
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 99
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Money Investing Suggestions Wanted
Posted: 2/28/2013 4:28:57 PM
Posted By: roadrunner2525 on 3/1/2013 10:24:24 AM

You are using statistics that can only be read. As a financial analyst you could put together all of the numbers, the debt levels, debt coverage etc. and be one hundred percent right that you would have an accurate reading on that company. But everyday the only thing that the stock market has proven to me is that they lie about all those numbers. Enron, case in point lied about the income and left the share holders nothing but a class action lawsuit that caused them to lose a lot of money. I am saying to take it as is, a dangerous game. People invest hoping to make money but they are usually playing with fire because these companies are corrupt as the day is long.


Of course they can lie about numbers. That's why it's illegal. And why you should know your numbers because it's easier to figure out things if things don't add up. And why you don't let Bernie Madoff look after all your eggs.

Someone could just as easily sell you counterfeit gold that's mixed with other base metals. Or you could buy real estate in good faith only to find out that there are structural issues you didn't know about, or the neighbourhood is not what the real estate agent made it out to be etc etc.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 100
Money Investing Suggestions Wanted
Posted: 3/1/2013 5:02:27 AM
I’m looking to invest savings for next five-to-ten years. I’m not wanting to be too risky; just hoping to gain 5% a year. Share ideas or specific tips for a conservative investment that can make 5% growth per year without too much risk. Thank you.


As far as risk is concerned, since gold is a commodity, by defination, it carries more risk than many other investments.

The OP asked for suggestions about investments that would potentially return 5% over a span of 5 to 10 years without being too risky...

We know little from the OP's statement...what is "too risky"...how much is the initial investment...what is the OP's prior investment experience...what is the OP's net worth?? does the OP have reserve capital to meet emergency needs (because if the OP doesn't then the investment may be the fallback for emergencies which would increase the risk factor...eg..untimely sales of the investment to meet emergency needs.)

So, if the OP has had prior stock investment experience and the investment is large enough...then a diversified portfolio of stock-setup to resemble an asset allocation portfolio-then the OP could reasonably expect a 5% return without "too much" risk.

When one looks at the recent rise in gold prices there tends to be a rush towards an investment that for the prior 30 years stunk to high heaven...if one looked at the historical prices of gold from 1974 thru 2004 this gold enthusiam would vanish....further, if one compared gold prices to stock and bond indexes from the 1930's to current-gold enthusiam becomes non-existant.

Given, the limited information we have from the OP, I stand by the recommendation to buy intermnediate term quality corporate bonds and hold to maturity.
 Ed Bear
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 101
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Money Investing Suggestions Wanted
Posted: 3/2/2013 12:45:26 AM
Are we talking investment or get-rich-quick schemes?

Keep it simple, sucker.

Don't carry debt.
NEVER invest money you can't afford to lose, like all of your life savings.
Use tax shelters like TFSAs (in Canada) and government bonds (in the US).
All the big companies with lots of profit are not re-investing it. They don't expect any quick financial recovery.
Take guaranteed returns and nothing else in the current climate.
What you want to be doing is preserving your cash so you still have some left to invest (or live on) when things get better.

There are lots of lottery winners out there.
YOU will never win enough to pay for your losses.

You will NEVER have a guaranteed way to find the investments that will go up.
Your "advisor" will always have a way to sell investments that go down - TO YOU!

CANADIANS: be advised that the 0.75-1.5% fees typical of US funds are HALF what Canadian mutual funds charge, which runs 2-3%.
Think 2-3% on deposits is bad? (You can still get 3% TFSA deposits today.) The mutual funds, with all their risk, suck that 2-3% out of a market yielding only 2-3%, and you STILL end up paying tax on it. At least an ETF lets you defer the taxes to a time of your choice, when you sell.

Another thing to note: many funds hold other funds in their asset mix. This is double-commission screwing.
ED BEAR
 roadrunner2525
Joined: 2/12/2013
Msg: 102
Money Investing Suggestions Wanted
Posted: 3/6/2013 11:55:09 AM
The best way to trade stocks in my opinion is to buy one hundred shares of the stock and if it goes down buy another hundred shares and write a covered call on the second hundred shares that are bought. A written call is like purchasing the stock at a big discount. If you want to buy one hundred of stock at 30 and write a call at 25 the difference is 500 but they usually pay more than the exact difference so they might pay 550 or 600. It depends how fast the stock is moving. Anyway you don't suffer at all if the stock goes down unless it goes down more than 5 points which is highly unusual for most stable stocks. If you have enough money you buy it again at 25 and write another call at 20. I have noticed that when you write calls the stock almost never goes down. Whomever is buying the call from you has more control over the market than you. So this protects your original 100 shares of stock better than buying puts does. Short selling stock and buying puts are the easiest way for a person to lose money. Buying stock on margin is also deadly because they can force you out of the stock if you can't keep up with the margin. Writing calls on stock is usually harmless and protects your original investment. Buying calls on stock is how people spend less money but it is a great way to lose money because the stock will get stuck till the time value runs out and you will usually lose.When you buy calls the stock has to go up quick or it is an automatic loss.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 103
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Money Investing Suggestions Wanted
Posted: 4/15/2013 9:32:11 AM
Just wondering if any gold bugs are throwing in the towel yet.

Goldenfreude?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2013/04/15/gold-is-finished/
 professora
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 104
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History
401 K
Posted: 12/15/2013 4:52:49 PM
do consider the 401K. Read and get info. Be sure to diversify-- my aunt was smarter than I was and diversified making her retirement comfortable. She bought value line information--it was pricey but she sure did well with this information.
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 105
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History
401 K
Posted: 12/19/2013 1:57:54 PM
You can skip the crooks and try angel investing. You go through the peoples requests, offerings and ideas etc. and you pick who you want to invest in.

Or find a local who you know needs money and lend it to them on terms. Yes, you'd have to do a lot of research, but you'd have to anyway. This way at least you can hold their "collateral."

Does a good business in your town need money to expand? Is someone building a rental on their property and need material?
Can share the rent?

I'd start a business and allow others to run it for/with me. (a greenhouse? A wood lot? an artist?).

Think out side the box and sleep at night knowing you did something good for someone and you aren't helping the banksters get richer.
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