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 lotustemple
Joined: 10/23/2011
Msg: 26
Is there really ever a Mutual Breakup?Page 2 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
When I do the breaking off and there wasn't any betrayal, I believe it can take a while to detangle, and make myself available to the person. To one ex who knew the ending was coming, we had been talking about an incompatability for some time. This is what I offered him since he was devastated:

1. We can hang out as much as you need even sleep together but no sex.
2. I won't date others until you say it's ok, besides it will probably take me about a year till I am ready anyway and it's a small town.

He got very very sick a few months after the break-up.
3. I drove him to doctor appts and looked after him 3 times a week for 6 months.

He got better, moved away and came back to visit his friends this last month, it's been 5 years.
4. No, I told him we cannot hang out. No, you cannot come over and see my new projects. Let it go, it's not respectful to your new girlfriend or anyone I am dating. Get on with your life, I am your history not your future.
 abmccray
Joined: 8/3/2008
Msg: 27
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Is there really ever a Mutual Breakup?
Posted: 7/26/2012 2:32:41 PM
Really?

(1) Your 2 years don't count. You've never had a long relation and you're so self-centered, that I doubt you could ever care for anyone but yourself.

(2) People who are in long term marriages who have mutual breakups don't breakup until they can't stand living together as roommates any longer. Their relationship doesn't change from before to after apart from the sleeping arrangements. What's the problem?


2 years isn't a long relationship? And I don't believe we've ever met, so good job resorting to ad hominem/poisoning the well when you have no actual point to make (look up a list of argumentative fallacies if you don't know what those mean). So, yes, you're just randomly pulling nonsense out of the air you made up in your own head and presenting it as fact.

More than 10 examples have presented things directly counter to what you said, and you just ignore all of them, and then say the thread said something entirely different than it did.

And for the marriage thing - how is a long term marriage where two people can't live with each other "not a real relationship," which is what you said right above that?

edit: This is my question - are you here to discuss things and learn and share; or are you here to tell people you know stuff and that's all there is to it? Because I don't see how you can just ignore multiple people's experiences like that, do motive attribution fallacies to them by spouting off what their relationships were "really" like (according to you, who doesn't know them or anything about their relationships besides what they said), if you're trying to do the former. You've insulted half of the people in this thread by minimalizing their relationships even though they offered no info of their own to support your claims - why would you do that?
 Happy Dude 63
Joined: 5/3/2009
Msg: 28
Is there really ever a Mutual Breakup?
Posted: 7/26/2012 3:07:33 PM
Yes I dont get how you make a blanket claim Abelian?
[Mutual breakups only when there is no real relationship?? Just changing basic sleeping arrangements??]

I was married 17 years...and we did not 'cant stand being roommates' anymore. We discussed it over a lengthy period of time. And decided we wanted different things for our lives and got divorced.

No hatred, no insane fighting. Yes stress,pain and all. But the way you responded to the post was as if everyone was one sided and agreed with you?
What I dont get is how so many people make these blanket statements..everyone should speak for themselves??



Abelian;
I haven't, but from reading the replies so far, it appears that mutual breakups happen when there's no real relationship happening to start with. The before and after isn't much different apart from possibly changing a few sleeping arrangements. Basically, it's easy to agree things aren't working if two people were never really into each other or committed to anything to begin with.
 lotustemple
Joined: 10/23/2011
Msg: 29
Is there really ever a Mutual Breakup?
Posted: 7/26/2012 3:11:01 PM
@abmccray
A significant percentage of our population have a higher than normal degree of narcissism(one of my friends with a phd is writing a book about it). A little narcissism is healthy and good for self-reliance(no one want to be a doormat)etc.... However a "me me me" society constantly pumped up by corporate agendas to promote consumerism and other negative influences has created too many self-serving shallow people. People with exceptionally high I.Q's can also be prone to pathological Narcissism but not always.

When someone is caught up in themself they never really feel deep emotions for others. They maintain superficial marriages and relationhips based on appearances and material gain, not on love and deep committment for one another. These people often had lousy boundaries with the opposite sex for the entire duration of the relationship and in breaking up, are more apt to mourn the loss of the house and their partners income rather than the love they shared.

The narcissist filter is a very good way of making sense of others behavior. Too much(self-centered) or too little(doormat) can help you predict and understand why people do what they.
 LinuxD
Joined: 12/6/2008
Msg: 30
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Is there really ever a Mutual Breakup?
Posted: 7/26/2012 3:16:16 PM
Sure there can be.
My ex was stomping her way to the door one night because she didn't get her way and announced "It's OVER!!, I'm leaving!" I said " Ok,don't forget your cat,bye!" and proceeded on with what I was doing..

pretty dang mutual in my book..
 Drawesome32
Joined: 6/26/2012
Msg: 31
Is there really ever a Mutual Breakup?
Posted: 7/26/2012 3:47:24 PM
i had one. with the way things were going in our relationship we kinda both came to the realization that things werent working out. we both still cared very much for one another and both of us treated the other well. we had a lengthy chat about everything under the sun and went our separate ways. havent seen her since.
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 32
Is there really ever a Mutual Breakup?
Posted: 7/26/2012 4:53:56 PM
~OT~ Some end mutually, some don't. Some people remain friends, some choose not to. These discussions always end the same. The battle between the "If I don't do it that way, it isn't happening for anyone else either." camp and those who do it differently.

I totally get that some can't be friends, some don't wish to be friends, some mutually break up, some fist fight to the bloody bitter end, some walk away with a sticky note on the bathroom mirror. All scenarios are possible when it comes to relationships.

There is no handbook we're given when we hit puberty telling us we aren't capable of mutually breaking-up. There is no memo telling us that it's not "right" to be friends post-break-up. Like all things in life, these things are subjective and individual. There is not right or wrong, nor is there a limit to the differences in how we all choose to handle our own lives. I simply do NOT understand why some are hell bent on their way being the ONLY way and if it isn't that way ~ it isn't possible, or it wasn't real, or it wasn't real love or it was all just a big fat lie to begin with. I can't imagine being closed off completely to the realities of others. To only think my experiences are in some way "correct" experiences. Life would be so colorless to live in that mindset. Sad. But? To each their own. JMO
 Attercop
Joined: 6/25/2012
Msg: 33
Is there really ever a Mutual Breakup?
Posted: 7/26/2012 5:41:13 PM

I haven't, but from reading the replies so far, it appears that mutual breakups happen when there's no real relationship happening to start with.


Might be just me and the way I read things. But I got a different meaning out of the words "to start with."

A decades-long marriage probably was a real relationship to start with (=at the beginning).

But when it ends mutually (as one described above -- a whole day for the acceptance to set in), then seems there was no relationship happening to start with (=not enough of real relating left, to BE broken up)

---- eh. Try again.
I can't burn my toast when I didn't put any bread in the toaster to start with.
eh---- never mind.
 Janet_Always
Joined: 6/20/2012
Msg: 34
Is there really ever a Mutual Breakup?
Posted: 7/26/2012 6:08:22 PM

I can't imagine being closed off completely to the realities of others.

I guess I just wonder though if some of these mutual breakups were really one making the decision and the other really having no choice in the matter -- and rather than fight to stay with someone that no longer wants them -- they end it without challenge.

They still love and want to be with the other person, so it's not really mutual -- even though it may appear so.

There's no sense in trying to talk the other into loving them again, and their pride won't allow them to admit their true feelings anyway.
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 35
Is there really ever a Mutual Breakup?
Posted: 7/26/2012 6:45:36 PM

I guess I just wonder though if some of these mutual breakups were really one making the decision and the other really having no choice in the matter -- and rather than fight to stay with someone that no longer wants them -- they end it without challenge.

They still love and want to be with the other person, so it's not really mutual -- even though it may appear so.

There's no sense in trying to talk the other into loving them again, and their pride won't allow them to admit their true feelings anyway.

You very well may be right. I'm certain there are more in this position, than the mutually deciding side. I've always been of the mind-set that when a relationship requires chronic "work" it's no longer working and I've been lucky (I suppose) that the men in my past have felt the exact same way. And maybe it has something to do with what we do in the VERY beginning stages of a relationship. If we choose partners who are our "communicative " equals, do we stand a better chance of one day looking across the room and saying, "Ya know? I think we've gotten so far off track, even though we've tried really hard, maybe it's best we part ways. What do you think?" Maybe it's not what we do in the end that makes it mutual or not, rather how we are in the beginning/middle. I simply do not know. JMO
 Sciencetreker
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 36
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Is there really ever a Mutual Breakup?
Posted: 7/26/2012 6:46:58 PM
Janet,
As you say 'I guess I wonder..."
We can wonder all we want about other people's relationships. We weren't there. We tend to filter things through our own experiences. This is why some have a hard time accepting that some didn't throw objects, some didn't go into depression, some didn't shake hands and say 'bye'...we don't live a hundred lives to draw upon all the possibilities.
 Happy Dude 63
Joined: 5/3/2009
Msg: 37
Is there really ever a Mutual Breakup?
Posted: 7/27/2012 3:52:15 AM
The last few thoughts are excellent and yes we have not lived a 100 lives, so we cannot see everyone's view.

What I see here though, is there sounds to be the thought that if there is ever a break up without anger and hatred then it was NEVER a loving relationship? That no one believes that two people could love each other for a very long time, but slowly because of life, move apart or desire different directions? And then mutually agree to end the marriage without attacking each other?

That makes no sense to me.

Fighting with some one, means to me you have no other personal resources to solve your disagreement. And yes fighting happens!! I have been there. I was given so few emotional happy tools as a child..BUT I taught myself how to resolve conflict without fighting. Can I get mad? Oh yes! But calmness is so much healthier for me and showing my son how to focus in on solving the issue, not just blowing up.

And I was not always this way. I needed help when my marriage ended. And yes both my ex and I took turns questioning 'our' decision. None of it was easy. But when you care about your children, your wife,(the one you have made a beautiful life with for the past 17 years), and yourself. You find a way, to have moments of calm and make decent kind decisions. Today I am glad I am this way and my life is good.
 Janet_Always
Joined: 6/20/2012
Msg: 38
Is there really ever a Mutual Breakup?
Posted: 7/27/2012 4:21:08 AM

That no one believes that two people could love each other for a very long time, but slowly because of life, move apart or desire different directions? And then mutually agree to end the marriage without attacking each other?

Oh I believe that can happen, but I think USUALLY the arguments, conflict and such happen DURING the marriage in those cases. So basically, you're both just over it before it's over. That makes sense.

Going from love to indifference doesn't happen over night.
 Happy Dude 63
Joined: 5/3/2009
Msg: 39
Is there really ever a Mutual Breakup?
Posted: 7/27/2012 4:51:34 AM
Well yes conflict and such must be present during some part of the marriage.

I don't think indifference ever happened. I still care deeply about my ex wife. I always will. It is not the same as being in love with her. Or wanting her or any emotional attachments.
Although, ALL emotions flow during the end of a marriage or at least our marriage.

And maybe our situation was different and I should just end my thoughts
on this topic.
 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 40
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Is there really ever a Mutual Breakup?
Posted: 7/27/2012 5:00:13 AM

People with exceptionally high I.Q's can also be prone to pathological Narcissism but not always.

When someone is caught up in themself they never really feel deep emotions for others. They maintain superficial marriages and relationhips based on appearances and material gain, not on love and deep committment for one another. These people often had lousy boundaries with the opposite sex for the entire duration of the relationship and in breaking up, are more apt to mourn the loss of the house and their partners income rather than the love they shared.

The narcissist filter is a very good way of making sense of others behavior.

^^^I find this post quite interesting and could explain some issues with a recent partner.


I guess I just wonder though if some of these mutual breakups were really one making the decision and the other really having no choice in the matter -- and rather than fight to stay with someone that no longer wants them -- they end it without challenge.


They still love and want to be with the other person, so it's not really mutual -- even though it may appear so.

There's no sense in trying to talk the other into loving them again, and their pride won't allow them to admit their true feelings anyway.

^^^I think that you can be participant to a mutual breakup decision well aware that you love that person but also deeply aware that unless there is some material change that the relationship cannot go on (for you)---despite your continuing to love them or them loving you. It rarely works that you both reach the same levels at the same time where a split is exactly what you both want. Of course this is part that makes it so hard to go through this typically---it's hard to reconcile the thought that you both (could conceivably) still love each other, but you're broken up.

The demise and burial of the 'relationship beast' can and often can does become the bigger entity in any love story of two people.

At some point, the relationship takes on much more importance than each of the couple's respective individual feelings for the other while it's working, but also perhaps more importantly when it's not. Therefore imo, sacrificing some of our individual feelings to some degree (and accepting miscalculations) is part and parcel of a relationship break up, in as much as it is part of it when it's flourishing.

In its waning days, the relationship tends to get the blame, sparing the individual because it becomes a referendum on how 'the two of you worked', not specifically about you and each of your individual feelings. In this way we are able to move on to recreate another hopeful relationship experience with someone else, more or less, intact. Edited.
 five-marie
Joined: 7/31/2011
Msg: 41
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Is there really ever a Mutual Breakup?
Posted: 7/27/2012 5:44:05 AM
"None of my relationships have ended mutually. Either I decided it wasn't working or he did, but someone always ends up really unhappy".
I agree with nikkisenko on this one. One may pretend it was mutual but seldom do two people decide at the same time something isn't working.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 42
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Is there really ever a Mutual Breakup?
Posted: 7/27/2012 7:40:36 AM
Of course there are people who have mutual break ups. Why wouldn't there be?
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 43
Is there really ever a Mutual Breakup?
Posted: 7/27/2012 8:27:15 AM
Basically, it's easy to agree things aren't working if two people were never really into each other or committed to anything to begin with.

I wouldn't say that, really. Even if two people weren't into eachother "enough" for tride & true LTR, it's by no means any guarantee that there's going to be a low-level of scrapping going on. It's quite common for people to get bitter, p!ssed, etc. with others when there was not "much" to begin with in the first place.

Mutual breakups aren't necessarily peaches & cream at all. It being peaches & cream, relatively speaking, is the rarity. Mutual breakups are just when both people wanted to breakup at more or less the same time. In fact, I would say extensive long-term relationships can easily have it where people end up growing apart slowly over time where there's nothing sudden or blind-side about it.

When someone is caught up in themself they never really feel deep emotions for others. They maintain superficial marriages and relationhips based on appearances and material gain, not on love and deep committment for one another.

IMO, I would also say that many people who are very self-absorbed don't really know to what extent they are at all. From my experience, they won't argue that they're all about themselves compared to the next guy/gal, sure, but they don't realize how it skews their POV or limits their emotional investment potential vs others next to them. And to they themselves, when in a serious relationship, they believe they internally have a big emotional investment, when relative to the norm-level of society, it's really not that much. But any level of emotional sacrifice/giving in is monumental to them. I'm sure there's a lots of variations, but I've been around people like that.
 Knightrose
Joined: 11/2/2010
Msg: 44
Is there really ever a Mutual Breakup?
Posted: 7/27/2012 4:54:56 PM
Every break-up is mutual. It has to be because people can not own people. Whether you wanted it to happen or not is irrelevant.
 Janet_Always
Joined: 6/20/2012
Msg: 45
Is there really ever a Mutual Breakup?
Posted: 7/27/2012 7:05:01 PM

Every break-up is mutual. It has to be because people can not own people. Whether you wanted it to happen or not is irrelevant.

I think of "mutual" as both people want the same thing.
 lotustemple
Joined: 10/23/2011
Msg: 46
Is there really ever a Mutual Breakup?
Posted: 7/27/2012 7:44:54 PM

IMO, I would also say that many people who are very self-absorbed don't really know to what extent they are at all. From my experience, they won't argue that they're all about themselves compared to the next guy/gal, sure, but they don't realize how it skews their POV or limits their emotional investment potential vs others next to them. And to they themselves, when in a serious relationship, they believe they internally have a big emotional investment, when relative to the norm-level of society, it's really not that much. But any level of emotional sacrifice/giving in is monumental to them. I'm sure there's a lots of variations, but I've been around people like that.


Could be why some posters think the natural progression is from relationship to friend. If the passionate love was all show and no substance, that may explain the strange progression.
 pfif
Joined: 7/21/2012
Msg: 47
Is there really ever a Mutual Breakup?
Posted: 7/28/2012 12:47:18 AM
They seem like icebergs that calf in the middle of the night
when both are asleep. You wake in the morning, adrift.

And alone.
 JonBright
Joined: 2/15/2012
Msg: 48
Is there really ever a Mutual Breakup?
Posted: 7/28/2012 1:24:17 AM
My Dear Friend ... Surely you want to believe the truth in your own heart? Loving anything or anyone is forever and will remain sacred forever. Surely you must know this by now? The beauty of the human spirit is that we are programmed to love, and whatever your personal experience may be ... it is yours to be cherished or regretted as the case may be. Broken hearts are universal (not yours alone) and the sensation you are feeling may never end, but will by the force of nature be tempered with another love. JonBright
 Mrgiveitright
Joined: 7/24/2010
Msg: 49
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Is there really ever a Mutual Breakup?
Posted: 7/29/2012 8:25:44 AM
Yes. It's rare that it's mutual though.
 ro1970
Joined: 10/23/2011
Msg: 50
Is there really ever a Mutual Breakup?
Posted: 7/29/2012 2:40:05 PM
my question to this thread is ----- what the hell makes the difference????

If a relationship is over then it's over - no matter who wanted it or the circumstances thereof.
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