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Show ALL Forums  > Dating and Love Advice  > Getting a second date from online dating is harder than pulling teeth      Home login  
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 grove_22
Joined: 1/30/2012
Msg: 51
Getting a second date from online dating is harder than pulling teeth..Page 3 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
Well stop feeding people. Second dates are not hard to get. A first date is. That is why you really should arrange a first MEET. Then see if you want an actual date. I actually do not expect anything at all. People are very dishonest and think a little too highly of themselves in e mails to meet them and have to ask who the hell has been e mailing me for a week.


The OP said they had drinks on 2 of these first dates / meetings and went for a walk on another one. BTW the first meeting with someone from a dating site can be considered as a blind date. Regardless of the time, cost, or activity. Having said that, I don't think it really matters what you call it.


Chemistry, can be instant. I know within 30 seconds if I even would want to see a man naked. And I can tell in less than a few minutes if his personality is going to go over well with mine. The rest is a toss up, as it takes time to get to know someone.


The bold part is physical attraction / lust. Yes physical attraction can be determined very quickly. But I can find someone to be physically attractive. Yet I rarely had an instant connection with them on a first date / meeting because they are still a virtual stranger at that point. Or because they may be a little bit nervous or shy at first.
 Maverick325
Joined: 5/1/2011
Msg: 52
Getting a second date from online dating is harder than pulling teeth..
Posted: 8/19/2012 9:02:09 AM
Yes, I think he went a little too far to use the word scumbag. I actually was mostly focusing on his first post in my previous posts, which I thought wasn't really objectionable. The later posts were more problematic.


Actually, no one OWES respect to anyone: respect is to be earned. Perhaps you mean that we owe a polite attitude to others, but we don't OWE politeness to anyone, either. Most of us choose to be polite, including me, but it isn't because I owe anyone anything--empathy spurs me to treat others as I want to be treated. Some people lack manners and others are just mean.


I don't think what you said there has any content. It's just playing with words. Anyway, I do think we owe everyone respect. It's just that you can earn MORE respect or lose respect.



I know women have emotions that are driving their decisions, and it's only natural for them to act the way that they do. So, I'm not blaming them.


Who can spell "condescending"?


Try spelling "misunderstanding". Basically, I am just trying to put myself in their shoes. You call that condescension? I think you are just trying to find more things to disagree with because I am to some degree defending a guy who you don't like.

I seriously empathize with these women who are being picky. I am picky, too, but in a different way. I am reasonably picky about looks, for example. It's my weakness. I know it's not really a good thing, but I can't help it. So, I am just trying to put myself in their shoes. What I have trouble understanding is why they seem to be big on first impressions. So, I can't relate to the cause because first impressions are nothing to me. So, the best I can do to try to relate to them is compare it to when I am not attracted to a girl. I don't like to be picky about looks, but I can't ignore my gut feelings about it. So, it's very similar to what I imagine they must feel like. If I am wrong, then, at least I tried to imagine their point of view.
 SweetLilGTP
Joined: 10/22/2010
Msg: 53
Getting a second date from online dating is harder than pulling teeth..
Posted: 8/19/2012 10:41:47 AM
Anyway, I do think we owe everyone respect. It's just that you can earn MORE respect or lose respect.


Seconded.

 NarcissusTemple
Joined: 4/23/2009
Msg: 54
Getting a second date from online dating is harder than pulling teeth..
Posted: 8/19/2012 11:52:02 AM
I think he just expressed that he didn't understand their behavior and it didn't make sense to him. It's not clear that he is saying that they did anything wrong, even.

Not accurate at all. He said:

At least be a respectful human being and be straight up with how you feel. Don't lead someone on; that's a scumbag move. And don't ignore someone; that's completely immature

It's very clear that he is saying women who don't conform to his criteria of interaction are disrespectful, scummy and immature. That's a judgmental blaming tone to take.
Especially when he has no clue that women who DO tell men that they're not interested in a first or second date can get called ugly b!tches and cvnts in exchange for their honesty.

Everyone owes everyone else a little something called R E S P E C T

In an ideal world where everyone subscribes to the same definition of respect AND conforms to it, this would apply.
But we do not--would YOU honestly disagree?

I think the most helpful post here is this:

I have learned in my life to start looking at my own actions if people aren't responding in a favorable way. This is not just in dating, but any human relationship. You can't control what other people do, just what you do. Something you are doing on the first date is probably pushing people away. Sometimes it is really hard to remove yourself from yourself and look objectively at your interactions.

I don't know what you are doing, but if every woman you meet reacts the same way, its probably not them, its probably you.

This is not accurate at all:

The problem with looking at yourself is you have no way of knowing what it is about yourself that is so bad and whether or not it's something you can change or whether the only thing you can do is play the numbers game.

Anyone who has the ability to empathize with others can mentally shift their own outgoing behavior and try to see it as the receiver.
Anyone who can see all behavior as falling on a continuum, from worst to best, can make self adjustments to up their own ante.

The more constructive attitude to take for the OP would be to look at these women as having done him the favor of not wasting any more of his time.
If he is feeling taken advantage of in terms of money, then he needs to change his approach.
Either make better choices in women by not taking those out who expect lavish expenditures, or, as mentioned, make it dutch, or just meet for coffee.
 Maverick325
Joined: 5/1/2011
Msg: 55
Getting a second date from online dating is harder than pulling teeth..
Posted: 8/19/2012 1:15:04 PM
I think he just expressed that he didn't understand their behavior and it didn't make sense to him. It's not clear that he is saying that they did anything wrong, even.

Not accurate at all. He said:

At least be a respectful human being and be straight up with how you feel. Don't lead someone on; that's a scumbag move. And don't ignore someone; that's completely immature


Okay, I admit I forgot about the subsequent posts where he said that because the person I was addressing was referring to the very first post.



Especially when he has no clue that women who DO tell men that they're not interested in a first or second date can get called ugly b!tches and cvnts in exchange for their honesty.


That has no particular relevance because what's stopping them from calling them names if they just ignore instead of say they aren't interested? I concede that, in practice, it COULD be the case that ignoring them fends off more of these sorts of attacks, and if experience showed that to be the case, I would understand their behavior.



Everyone owes everyone else a little something called R E S P E C T

In an ideal world where everyone subscribes to the same definition of respect AND conforms to it, this would apply.
But we do not--would YOU honestly disagree?


I'm basically just saying it's not okay to go around flipping people off randomly. If you had no respect for people, that would have to be viewed as a neutral action, rather than something extremely rude to do, which it is. If someone has absolutely zero respect for anyone until they earn it, I call that person a jerk. Basically, what that means is they are free to treat anyone they don't know like ****. That's what I'm saying. It's not about the definitions, it's about the meaning behind them.



I don't know what you are doing, but if every woman you meet reacts the same way, its probably not them, its probably you.


They don't act the same way. It just happens to be that the ones I am interested in don't like me. I don't know if it's because I get too excited and it throws me off or if the ones that I am interested in are "out of my league" or something.



This is not accurate at all:

The problem with looking at yourself is you have no way of knowing what it is about yourself that is so bad and whether or not it's something you can change or whether the only thing you can do is play the numbers game.


It is accurate when viewed with its intended meaning. Believe me, it's beyond my expertise to figure out why women reject me. I have thought about it a lot. I can't come up with very much.



Anyone who has the ability to empathize with others can mentally shift their own outgoing behavior and try to see it as the receiver.


And they have no guarantee of success in doing so, which is my point.



Anyone who can see all behavior as falling on a continuum, from worst to best, can make self adjustments to up their own ante.


It's inaccurate to see all behavior arranged in order like that because one person's turn-off is another person's turn-on.



The more constructive attitude to take for the OP would be to look at these women as having done him the favor of not wasting any more of his time.


It's not clear that that is actually accurate. No one on here can claim to know whether it would have worked out or not, had they given it more of a chance, unless they are omniscient (though it would not be out of place to bet against it). The proper stance on that is not that his time was saved, but merely to be agnostic, or maybe more prudently, to reason that there are many other people out there, so he need not worry about those three. However, once you have been rejected enough, you start to see a pattern, and you extrapolate that into the future, and the pattern usually continues to hold.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 56
Getting a second date from online dating is harder than pulling teeth..
Posted: 8/19/2012 1:22:00 PM

I don't think what you said there has any content. It's just playing with words. Anyway, I do think we owe everyone respect. It's just that you can earn MORE respect or lose respect.


No content? So, I should respect the old woman who just cut me off in traffic? I should respect the men on POF who send me obscene messages? I should respect the scammers who try to bamboozle me into sending them money? How about the woman who stole my mother’s wallet? The guy who yelled, “Nice ass!” at me? Note, these are all strangers, and for a reason: they do not automatically “deserve” respect. Nor do I—I do not expect my students to respect me merely because I am their instructor. Their respect has to be earned. I do expect, and require, them to be polite to me and other students, but I am polite to most people—even those whom I know and for whom I have no respect.

Perhaps you are dancing with semantics, but respect is hard earned in my world.


Try spelling "misunderstanding". Basically, I am just trying to put myself in their shoes. You call that condescension? I think you are just trying to find more things to disagree with because I am to some degree defending a guy who you don't like.


Unless you have small feet, you can’t fit into the shoes of a woman. Even the statement above is condescending—not only do you assume that women cannot control their emotions, but you assume that all women think and act alike. It is not up to you to “blame” women, eh? You can blame specific women whom you know (though the experience will be colored by your perspective and might be moot), but don’t think that you can attach or not attach blame to every woman on the planet because
women have emotions that are driving their decisions, and it's only natural for them to act the way that they do.


I am not blaming every man because the OP refers to the actions of “scumbags,” nor do I assume that every man makes every decision based solely on his testosterone levels as you assume women are “driven” by their emotions.

I am reasonably picky about looks, for example. It's my weakness. I know it's not really a good thing, but I can't help it. [. . .] What I have trouble understanding is why they seem to be big on first impressions. So, I can't relate to the cause because first impressions are nothing to me.


Dude, you can’t have it both ways. IF you are picky about looks, the very first impression (how a woman looks) is obviously important!


I think you are just trying to find more things to disagree with because I am to some degree defending a guy who you don't like.


I guess that my “disagreement” is driven by my uncontrollable female emotions. Really, I am disagreeing with what you SAY. And I neither like nor dislike the OP—I don’t know him, but I dislike what he has to say.
 NarcissusTemple
Joined: 4/23/2009
Msg: 57
Getting a second date from online dating is harder than pulling teeth..
Posted: 8/19/2012 2:33:49 PM

That has no particular relevance because what's stopping them from calling them names if they just ignore instead of say they aren't interested?

The block button.
I see what you're saying. Forest fires occur even when everyone follows the rules b/c nature can toss down a few lightning rods.
But this still applies: no one is owed an explanation after one date. A man or woman can disappear if they choose.
And people like you and the OP can continue to feel that is scummy or disrespectful.
But viewing it as scummy or disrespectful ignores valid reasons for NOT communicating, and can lead to a more resentful attitude while dating.

It's inaccurate to see all behavior arranged in order like that because one person's turn-off is another person's turn-on.

Then you contradict your own supposition that a standard of respect can be agreed to and acted upon. Since it's all relative, right?:

Everyone owes everyone else a little something called R E S P E C T


nd they have no guarantee of success in doing so, which is my point.

Splitting hairs here, but actually your original point was that they had no way of KNOWING.
I pointed out a method of self discovery. Yeah--results not guaranteed.

It's not clear that that is actually accurate. No one on here can claim to know whether it would have worked out or not, had they given it more of a chance, unless they are omniscient

Well, my point was not to make an omniscient guess about the success or failure of a date that didn't happen.
It was to frame an unfortunate circumstance in a way that makes it feel as though it worked out in his favor.
When a person doesn't reply, then you can read that as a "No thanks on that second date we talked about."
Now he has his answer, even though she didn't actually reply, and he can set his mind and efforts on the next.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 58
Getting a second date from online dating is harder than pulling teeth..
Posted: 8/19/2012 3:12:38 PM

Yes, men have to impress women in the early stages of dating to win them over. Once you get in a LTR it becomes more equal. Even in the wild, it's the male animal who works his tail off (no pun intended) to impress and win the affections of the female.


This is the biggest bunch of b ull there is. The sad part is that most men think this is what they need to do. They go to bars, pretend to be thing great s hit, buy drinks to all the cute girls. The guy buys the girl expensive dinners and the whole nine yards and for what. If it's the above mentality, she is only looking at his wallet.

My advice is simple. Do not try to impress the girl. Be your self, if anything the you that relates to friends instead of girls that your d ick may think are hot. That way you would stop drooling and you will start doing unpredictable fun stuff, instead of the usual stuff. Don't even try to sell yourself. If anything try the reverse selling technique.

Let me give you one example, most of the dates that I have had lately, when it came time to pay and they offered to pay half, I said yes. I told this to one female friend and she thought that none of these women would want to see me again, because I was obviously a cheap skate, and blah, blah, blah. Guest what? Many did not evolve to a second date, but several did. And what that told me is that they were interested in me, not some cheap meal for the weekend. The girl that am now going out with was one of them. And even though I take care of most of our dates now, she offers to pay for the tip, or the valet parking or something. It also tells me that she is not looking for a sugar daddy but a partner.
 BoonDockSaint73
Joined: 3/29/2010
Msg: 59
Getting a second date from online dating is harder than pulling teeth..
Posted: 8/19/2012 6:42:46 PM

If she won't kiss you on the first date, you aren't likely to get a second, so save yourself the uncertainy. Go for the kiss on the first date and don't ask for a second unless it happens.



this...
 Maverick325
Joined: 5/1/2011
Msg: 60
Getting a second date from online dating is harder than pulling teeth..
Posted: 8/19/2012 7:29:24 PM
Ugh. Looks like I got my posts deleted for double-posting, I guess, so let me just restate the most important points.

So, I'll just summarize. When I say everyone deserves respect, I am saying it with the understanding that respect is not all or nothing. Think about it. That takes care of all the objections if you think it through.

I never meant to say that women are emotionally-driven. That was totally misinterpreted. Emotion and reason and not separable. It's a mistake to assume that emotional was being used in a pejorative sense. Emotions are not always bad things that should be ignored. And if you insist on using the false dichotomy of emotion and reason, I was not saying that emotion, in that sense, was the ONLY thing driving the decisions.

Also, I didn't say it was disrespectful to ignore, just that it wasn't the nicest possible way to do it. If it were me, I wouldn't care about a few bad apples and let them ruin it for everyone else.


<div class="quote">If she won't kiss you on the first date, you aren't likely to get a second, so save yourself the uncertainy. Go for the kiss on the first date and don't ask for a second unless it happens.

Some girls just don't kiss on the first date, so I don't know about that. Plus, I'm just chicken to kiss them on the first date. There's never a good time for it on most of my first dates, as far as I can tell. I can handle a little uncertainty.
 mjk3937
Joined: 5/17/2012
Msg: 61
Getting a second date from online dating is harder than pulling teeth..
Posted: 8/19/2012 8:06:09 PM

Some girls just don't kiss on the first date, so I don't know about that. Plus, I'm just chicken to kiss them on the first date. There's never a good time for it on most of my first dates, as far as I can tell. I can handle a little uncertainty.


There is really no downside to just going for it. If she likes you and you're sufficiently smooth, the kiss will build on your existing chemistry and give you a lot of momentum heading into the second date. If she's not interested, you'll never see her again regardless of whether or not you try to kiss her. Even if you come across one of those fairly rare girls who doesn't kiss on the first date, they won't hold it against you for trying as long as you're not awkward about it.

I think it's a much bigger risk NOT to try to kiss someone who is attracted to you, lest she leave the date thinking there wasn't enough of a spark, you weren't aggressive/confident enough for her, etc.
 Maverick325
Joined: 5/1/2011
Msg: 62
Getting a second date from online dating is harder than pulling teeth..
Posted: 8/19/2012 8:23:31 PM

you're sufficiently smooth


::

I am about as smooth as sandpaper, so there goes that.


as you're not awkward about it.


That's a lot to ask from me.


I think it's a much bigger risk NOT to try to kiss someone who is attracted to you, lest she leave the date thinking there wasn't enough of a spark, you weren't aggressive/confident enough for her, etc.


Sometimes, I wonder about that. I mean, I've done it before, but it has to be like the perfect moment for it or else, I have a lot of trouble doing it. Sometimes, it just seems impossible, though. I would have to plan the date so that the right moment would arise.
 mjk3937
Joined: 5/17/2012
Msg: 63
Getting a second date from online dating is harder than pulling teeth..
Posted: 8/19/2012 8:45:51 PM

I would have to plan the date so that the right moment would arise.


That's not a hard thing to do if you can include a location in your date that has some measure of privacy. A park bench, the beach (once most people have gone home), a ferris wheel...
 BoonDockSaint73
Joined: 3/29/2010
Msg: 64
Getting a second date from online dating is harder than pulling teeth..
Posted: 8/19/2012 8:48:48 PM

but it has to be like the perfect moment for it or else



u been watchin too many movies...


no time like the present is my mantra...


grab ur nads and GO FOR IT...

hint: chicks LOVE to kiss
 grove_22
Joined: 1/30/2012
Msg: 65
Getting a second date from online dating is harder than pulling teeth..
Posted: 8/20/2012 6:26:25 AM
If she won't kiss you on the first date, you aren't likely to get a second, so save yourself the uncertainy. Go for the kiss on the first date and don't ask for a second unless it happens.


Not kissing on the first date doesn't always mean lack of interest. I had some second dates when there was no kissing on the first date. BTW there were other times when I kissed a woman on the first date. But there wasn't a second date. Go figure.
 Maverick325
Joined: 5/1/2011
Msg: 66
Getting a second date from online dating is harder than pulling teeth..
Posted: 8/20/2012 2:20:12 PM

I had some second dates when there was no kissing on the first date.


Me too.


BTW there were other times when I kissed a woman on the first date. But there wasn't a second date.


That hasn't happened to me. But then, I've kissed so few women, it's kind of depressing to think about it. Well, on the bright side, the number of dates I have been on is slightly more uplifting, if you ignore the low success rate on them. I guess that should tell you how much a slacker I am when it comes to the first kiss.

Yeah, it's probably hurting me more than it's helping me. I do need to set up the date to get some privacy, at some point, though.
 Drawesome32
Joined: 6/26/2012
Msg: 67
Getting a second date from online dating is harder than pulling teeth..
Posted: 8/20/2012 7:29:56 PM
i have the exact opposite problem. first dates are tough to come by, but once i get that far a 2nd date is almost guaranteed.

perhaps it would help to try being more choosey about the type of girl you meet.
 CaliforniaAries85
Joined: 8/13/2011
Msg: 68
Getting a second date from online dating is harder than pulling teeth..
Posted: 8/21/2012 7:43:24 AM
Jeez, OP is getting ripped apart. I didn't think the OP was that bad or arrogant...

Based on a quick scan of your page, you're young, good looking, intelligent w/a well-written profile, witty, ambitious...

So yea, you're screwing something up. Three dates in one week and not one of the girls was willing to go on a second date with you? That seems odd. No idea what you're doing on your dates, but in all honesty, based on your profile, you sound like you might be a little too full of yourself and possibly an obnoxious ***hole in person (based on some of your own claims of general ***holery). JUST SPECULATION. Maybe tone it down a bit? You'll probably learn to temper yourself with age.
 motownmaniax
Joined: 8/13/2006
Msg: 69
Getting a second date from online dating is harder than pulling teeth..
Posted: 10/21/2012 11:32:16 AM
OP, welcome to the wonderful world of online dating.

Although I do agree that, as some of my fellow men have said, not all women get hundreds of messages a week (but even they'd be surprised with the amount of mail most women get vs men, which is understandable since men are supposed to pursue in this society, not the other way around), women still have an advantage.

If the woman is attractive/sexy enough (and most are unless they really let themselves go or have the personality of a witch), they “can” sit back and filter out who they want to date. And once they pick it’s the guy’s job to do the dating logistics of where, when and pay. If at any time during this preliminary stage the woman feels the guy isn’t up to snuff, for whatever reason, she can stop things and go on to another potentially more compatible prospect.

Of course men can do this, too, but that means going through the process from the standpoint of doing all the heavy lifting again while the next woman sits back and enjoys the benefits.

This is a setup I’m getting increasingly irritated at playing. For once I’d like an attractive woman to contact “me” and do all the work. Any ladies up to the challenge?
 galnxtdoor64
Joined: 10/22/2009
Msg: 70
view profile
History
Getting a second date from online dating is harder than pulling teeth..
Posted: 10/21/2012 2:07:53 PM
oh come on now, I have had plenty of "first" dates and rarely 2nd or 3rd so on with the men I have met from POF- and they for what ever reason decided not to go beyond the "meet and greet" point and most of them- I wanted to dive a bit deeper to see if there could be more there: but did not get the chance to
so apparently....maybe not much there. I even offer time spent together that does not need to cost a lot,
I am a very easy to please lady...I like to think I have realistic expectations about what I would like to find- and i could easily say men pick on some really strange basis

for me a good relationship is like a good reciepe it should contain many different ingredients to make it work well ....
 DRKKNGHT193
Joined: 9/23/2012
Msg: 71
Getting a second date from online dating is harder than pulling teeth..
Posted: 10/21/2012 7:23:59 PM
Same problems, OP. I will not point fingers since I'm a live and let live kind of guy. I've had some really great 1sts that ended up fizzling out before the 2nd date, no idea why didn't bother asking or pushing so I had to move on.
 AquaLinda
Joined: 5/8/2012
Msg: 72
Getting a second date from online dating is harder than pulling teeth..
Posted: 10/21/2012 9:04:17 PM
Well, I've had lots of first dates and a few second and third dates and then ......NOTHING. The guys were all over me on all dates, but then for reasons that absolutely baffle me are gone, never to be heard from again. No reply to my text messages either. And as far as I can tell, they were pretty much into me during the dates. So it's not just you guys, happens to all of us.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 73
Getting a second date from online dating is harder than pulling teeth..
Posted: 10/22/2012 6:23:39 AM

I've had three dates this week, each of which were good. Not fantastic, but good. Instant chemistry? No.


What you sensed, was exactly what they sensed. But to them, that was not a good enough reason for a second date. Next time, simply learn to read your own instincts better and realize that what you feel went on, more than likely is what they felt went on.
 orange_hill
Joined: 9/8/2012
Msg: 74
Getting a second date from online dating is harder than pulling teeth..
Posted: 10/22/2012 6:38:06 AM
I have been on both sides of this issue. Sometimes I had a good first date. But lost interest in dating because of other things going on in my life. However I would tell them this instead of suddenly stopping answering the other person's texts / calls.
 im_a_rockstar
Joined: 12/29/2011
Msg: 75
Getting a second date from online dating is harder than pulling teeth..
Posted: 10/24/2012 8:18:00 PM

All three of them ignored me. Well, two of them felt the need to lead me on first before ignoring me.


Here's a lesson on being social... The ones that are good at it, aren't here. You're looking to find something in a list of people who are doing so bad of a job that they have to rely on a website to help them.

What do you honestly expect the outcome of that to be? Remember, you're dating the reason that they need a site like this. Every one of us has some kind of flaw that was making it too hard and we ended up looking here. And yeah, that means you too, no everyone is going to want a second date with you.

And then there's women that will date literally every guy that messages them, just so they can go do things, someone else's treat.
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