Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > What is going on will all of the shootings....      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 colt8301
Joined: 10/25/2006
Msg: 26
What is going on will all of the shootings....Page 2 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)

Yesterday I read and saw on the news the shooting of New York. It seems like everyday people or shooting or getting shot. A friend said this has been occurring in large numbers, the media is just now saying something. What do you think and why do you think it is happening?


People get shot everyday, have been for a very long time. Somebody is probably getting shot and killed right now. The media just likes to pick and choose shootings that they can "sensationalize". The shootings they like to report are Man fire from his job shootings, Murder/suicide shootings, school shootings, when someone from another race shoots someone else from another race so they can make it "racial".
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 27
view profile
History
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/26/2012 6:09:53 AM


Yesterday I read and saw on the news the shooting of New York. It seems like everyday people or shooting or getting shot....


It only seems that way, because in reality it is very far from that:


Among other things, you've got murder rate and gun violence rate (people getting shot rate) confused. The incidents of gun violence in the United States is far and away greater than any other country in the world and has dramatically increased in the last century (of course). Perhaps that's why you hear about it so often. Luckily Americans also have better medical care now than they did in the 19th century, not to mention better medical care than most countries topping the current murder rate per capita list. Plus the population has increased which is not directly correlated with the number of murderers in that population. All this certainly helps "buck" the trend you're imagining.
 soicat
Joined: 7/16/2012
Msg: 28
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/26/2012 7:41:57 AM

Well Americans and their guns, you folks down there believe in carrying guns what do you expect?


It's sad how many Canadians have this attitude. I blame our educators.

Admiral Yamamoto: "You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass."

Read about the "Rape of Nanking" for a full appreciation of the significance of his statement.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 29
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/26/2012 7:49:00 AM

...The incidents of gun violence in the United States is far and away greater than any other country in the world and has dramatically increased in the last century (of course)...

I think there may be a few people in the Middle East and Africa that would like to correct you on that statement.

More proof that cable news does nothing but misinform people.
 Blueline294
Joined: 3/28/2012
Msg: 30
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/26/2012 9:03:51 AM
Shootings happen every day 24/7. Some turn into homocides others turn into agg. assault. There is not a day goes by that you can't look in your local metro paper and see where some were killed and several shot. There is no "description" for a shooter. They come in all shapes, sizes, colors and genders. Some shootings get sensationalized some get buried on page three. I feel the instant media coverage has a lot to do with the perception of "it's happening all the time now" whereas it's been happening all along you just didn't hear about it. Yes guns kill a lot of people, but so do knives, clubs and cars. We can say that statistically this or statistically that but they're nothing more than numbers submitted to NCIC for FBI stats. Stats submitted by local police dept. sheriff's dept. etc from all over the US. You can make stats read anyway that you want them too. To give an example of sensationalism recently, where the shooter killed a deputy sheriff a civilian woman and wounded another officer. The headline on Yahoo said "Shooting at Texas AM" how many clicks do you think that generated vs. them actually saying there was a shooting involving a texas deputy and civilian woman while trying to serve an eviction notice and it just happened to be a couple blocks away from Texas A&M Just pointing out the media's mentality for the biggest headlines. The media twists and distorts the incident to gather the most attention, I know this for a fact after dealing with them for almost 30 years. Not that they are bad people, it's just what they do. This got a little off topic but when i get to ramblin.... lol
 STEVE4U22
Joined: 11/23/2011
Msg: 31
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/26/2012 10:01:04 AM
So lets forget the media & their ratings, forget world statistics on gun crimes. Simply put, what is the most common reason Americans want guns? Either handguns, long guns, assault rifles whatever.
 tygerpawn
Joined: 6/10/2012
Msg: 32
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/26/2012 10:08:19 AM

It's sad how many Canadians have this attitude. I blame our educators.

Admiral Yamamoto: "You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass."

Read about the "Rape of Nanking" for a full appreciation of the significance of his statement.
you blame our educators? pfftttt so what does a book detailing mass murders and rape from a occupying army have to do with civilians carrying and shooting guns in America? plus what youre posting happened in 1937 so its not the same thing.

You folks out in British columbia have no idea whats going on, You ought to live in Montreal for a bit and live in a area where members of La Cosa Nostra lives, my parents live down the street from where Rizzuto was gunned down in his own house, I lived not too far from there, tired of seeing mob hits, biker hits etc, you folks out in the west coast just reads about it.

Education pfft, we hear about the american gun deaths a lot because we are neighbors, truth be told if we lived in Columbia, Jamaica, Mexico we would think America a safer place, because the gun deaths are lower compared to those countries we up in Canada for the most part dont experience unless you live in certain parts of the country.
 Blueline294
Joined: 3/28/2012
Msg: 33
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/26/2012 10:21:16 AM
I wouldn't be able to give an explanation for every individuals need to own a gun but my perspective would be that for someone thats owns long guns, such as rifles and shotguns would be hunting primarily. Sport shooting such as trap and skeet shooting. Rifles would most likely be for hunting, deer etc. or possibly competition shooting. Handguns would fall under the home protection, self protection and/or competition shooting. When it comes to assault rifles I would know of no reason personally for the average citizen to own one, I've owned several because of my job, but sold them when I retired. I used to hunt years ago and had several long guns but when I quit hunting I sold all those as well. I have two handguns now that I keep for home protection as well as one in my vehicle, the reason for that being that if I do happen to chance across a crime in progress and or shooting in progress I might be in a position to help others if law enforcement is not there yet. And again the only reason I would do that is due to my training and experience in dealing with those types of situations. And not getting into constitutional rights and freedoms per se but there will be the segment of the population that will buy and possess all those weapons just because they can and it's their right to do so barring not being legally able to do so. This is just my opinion and some won't agree but that's why it's a forum I suppose.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 34
view profile
History
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/26/2012 10:39:01 AM
Misquote:


Admiral Yamamoto: "You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass."


This is not a real quote. It was invented by someone, and inserted into the internet, and since it appeals to certain folks, it gets repeated as though it IS factual.

It is not.

It would also not have anything whatsoever to do with this thread, even if it wasn't false.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 35
view profile
History
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/26/2012 10:50:21 AM
It doesn't matter who is in power whether it's conservative or liberal, male leader or female leader or a charismatic leader or boring leader, a leader who is a religious fanatic or a leader who is black or any other damn reason to blame it on whom ever is in power today or tomorrow


I am not so sure this isn't a bit more obvious then people realize.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/30/grants-pass-oregon-inmates_n_1557904.html

he sheriff's office released 39 inmates, dropping the population at the jail in Grants Pass to 60 – half of them federal prisoners held on contract.

"We had no other alternative based on our funding predicament," said Josephine County Undersheriff Don Fasching. "We are very concerned for public safety."


http://www.justicepolicy.org/images/upload/10-02_FAC_FY2011Budget_PS-JJ-AC-BB-DP.pdf

This continued funding pattern will likely result in increased costs
to states for incarceration that will outweigh the increased
revenue for law enforcement, with marginal public safety
benefits.


Why are states and counties all over theUS releasing prisoners without public concern... because all we hear about is how bad we are.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marian-wright-edelman/ending-the-cradle-to-pris_b_1655138.html

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/16/budget-cuts-force-oregon-jail-to-release-prisoners/

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2012/02/alabama_prison_commissioner_sa.html

Even with the $500 million and those concessions and savings, Mullins told lawmakers that Medicaid next year likely would have to eliminate, for adults, spending on eyeglasses, back and limb braces and prosthetics such as artificial limbs
Prisons or prosthetics?

Now take all of that and wrap it around psychological services which these cases are mostly about and it isn't a random wave of violence. It is an inevitable result

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/24/us-usa-shooting-denver-idUSBRE87M12120120824

Holmes was "making threats and those threats were reported to police," prosecutor Karen Pearson said during a hearing on whether prosecutors can have access to his university records. Pearson did not elaborate on the nature of the threats.


Lawmakers are using prisons and police as bargaining chips over social program spending and regulation reforms to ease up the flow of money through the economy.

Here in CA I have personal experience with someone that is mentally unstable. It took 10 years and 20 arrests and 2 years state prison on unrelated issues for the state to accept that this person needs to be off the street. They are currently in a state facility for an expected 8 years. The level of damage that is now required to occur to help these people and get them off the street is all related to the states budgets.

Unfortunately... for many, taking bad people off the street makes us a bad country.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/28/nyregion/closed-new-york-prisons-prove-hard-to-sell.html

Mr. Cuomo’s predecessor, Gov. David A. Paterson, closed three prisons as he confronted budget problems. Mr. Cuomo declared in his first address to the State Legislature that prisons were “not an employment program,” and proceeded to shut seven of the state’s remaining 67 correctional facilities, removing 3,800 beds.


While I agree with the philosophy of:

The state has a glut of vacant correctional facilities because of lower crime rates, new programs that allow early release for nonviolent offenders and the dismantling of its strict drug laws. The situation in New York reflects changing national attitudes toward criminal justice policy: the number of state prisoners nationwide declined in 2009 and 2010 for the first times in at least three decades, according to the federal Bureau of Justice Statistics.


Those things can be done but I'm not dumb enough to think it was out of good will. It was budget related. It just used these things to close the prisons to meet a budgetary goal.
 _babblefish
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 36
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/26/2012 10:53:42 AM

You folks out in British columbia have no idea whats going on, You ought to live in Montreal for a bit and live in a area where members of La Cosa Nostra lives, my parents live down the street from where Rizzuto was gunned down in his own house, I lived not too far from there, tired of seeing mob hits, biker hits etc, you folks out in the west coast just reads about it.


we do have an idea, and yes we reads about it cuz, well, we's this far away, i suggest you have
no idea what's going on across this country, in BC we have our own gangsters, try reading up on the Bacon
Brothers and their involvement with the Hell's Angels and what the VPD and the Integrated Gang Task Force
deal with, we on the west coat aren't immune to drive by shootings, targeted hits with innocent bystanders
being killed, then there is the chinese mafia and asian organized crime ..

do read, it broadens the mind ..
 Blueline294
Joined: 3/28/2012
Msg: 37
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/26/2012 10:54:15 AM
There were also comments about the 9 people shot in NYC. I can only speculate but the suspect HAD to of been running at some point for 9 bystanders to have been shot and even if he was that is absolutely unacceptable. As a former police officer I know how the adrenaline can spike unbelieveably quick. However your training involves neutralizing the threat not random shooting. It was drilled into us that once you pull that trigger you can't bring it back, you just changed your life and the lifes of others forever. I was trained multiple times a year for 28 years with all types of weapons and and can't imagine the scenario where the suspect was killed but 9 bystanders were shot as well.
 tygerpawn
Joined: 6/10/2012
Msg: 38
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/26/2012 11:39:53 AM
and how many shootings in BC make the CBC or other national news Babblefish? except for your stanley cup riot that made the news how embarrassing , not to mention how the BC folks dislikes the rest of Canada especially quebecers and Ontarians pffft.

perhaps you need to broaden your mind
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 39
view profile
History
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/26/2012 11:55:52 AM
I was trained multiple times a year for 28 years with all types of weapons and and can't imagine the scenario where the suspect was killed but 9 bystanders were shot as well.

Sounds totally reasonable. So I tried to find what New York does. I was not able to find much. Using google search for routine or mandatory police firearms or weapon training and setting the dates to last month to two years ago... virtually nothing comes up as relevant.

Did find this:
http://popularlogistics.com/2011/02/nypd-esu-training-deficiencies/

These cops – once initially trained (a story in itself) are expected to keep themselves in shape, keep their firearms skills near-perfect – and to bear any expenditure in time or money in addition to “routine” training themselves. The military assumes that ongoing training is part of the job. The NYPD – to the extent it makes that assumption – radically reverses the ratio. If training to field for an antiterrorist unit in the armed services is 10:1 – in the NYPD probably 1:100.


Somehow I think someone has decided that police do not need to be trained in the use of arms and that just having a weapon implies authority and skill is a natural part of that authority...

what do they get training in?
Media training
http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/media/2011/12/4714994/nypd-describes-training-program-officers-first-amendment-rights-press-

Propaganda
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/24/nypd-training-included-video-the-third-jihad_n_1227889.html

Multi-culturalism
http://www.ny1.com/content/news_beats/political_news/163617/nypd-recruits-get-training-in-cultural--community-relations

They do have semi annual qualifications though
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/training_nypd/firearm_tatics.shtml

Could be a lot of confusing messages going on...
 GreenThumbz18
Joined: 4/25/2012
Msg: 40
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/26/2012 12:12:52 PM
^^^^^^
Buzzy- With all due respect to your years of service, Monday-morning quarterbacks have never won a game.
NYC pedestrian traffic is a nightmare, and what should they have done? Wait until they have the perfect shot? The shooter had more rounds in his weapon, and how would the police have known that anyway? What if he had more loaded clips in his pocket? What if he killed more people while the cops watched?
What I read was the cops hit three bystanders, and fragments hit 6 more, maybe ricocheting?
 Blueline294
Joined: 3/28/2012
Msg: 41
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/26/2012 12:21:56 PM
That could very well be... I'm not trying to be a monday morning quarterback by any stretch of the imagination. I wasn't there and I don't know the exact circumstances. I can't tell you how many times people ask me why a cop did this or that, I don't second guess them because I wasn't there. But here again the media said nine shot by police so if you just go by what they said then yeah that would be inexcusable. BUT if were talking about bullet fragmentation then it's collateral damage and can't be avoided. I will agree with you on that.
 Blueline294
Joined: 3/28/2012
Msg: 42
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/26/2012 12:58:39 PM
I'm not saying that they couldn't have that type of application, semi automatic rifles to me have a different meaning than assault rifles....when you say assault I think of AK47's, M-16's and AR15's and others with fully auto capabilities. But I still wouldn't see the need for the average person "non-hunter" urban dweller to "need one". Just my opinion. I feel as long as it's legal you have the "right" to own what you want.
 GreenThumbz18
Joined: 4/25/2012
Msg: 43
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/26/2012 1:17:26 PM
I'm not opposed to owning firearms, but assault weapons give me the creeps.
There are lots of coyotes out my way, those types of animals survive because they are very cagey. I have to wonder, once you shoot into a pack, how many more can you hit before they scatter? Maybe,,, one or two?
I just can't see any practical application for a 30-round magazine.
 Extollere
Joined: 2/21/2012
Msg: 44
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/26/2012 5:33:22 PM

It seems like everyday people or shooting or getting shot. A friend said this has been occurring in large numbers, the media is just now saying something.


This is kind of area-specific. In some locations, it wouldn't be a stretch to say that. Shootings (depending on the area, of course) are not uncommon, however, it is not all that common that they happen out in broad daylight on a busy Manhattan street during rush hour. Those are the stories you hear because that's a bit rare. In my area of the state, however, the weekly shootings usually don't span much further than the local news, if they even make that. A few nights I heard shots and hadn't been able to find out what on earth happened the day after. I jokingly call it the Wild West out here, though my area is by far not the worst by any stretch of the imagination. It's actually quite tame compared to others.

Anyway, these events aren't given as much media attention because, well, they really aren't that "new." But they definitely do occur.
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 45
view profile
History
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/26/2012 6:22:38 PM
"What's with all the shootings?"

The people are feeling powerless, therefor they feel the need to use power outside themselves.

People are feeling faceless and are looking for a legacy, no matter how bad.

So many people are hooked on power, hype and drugs (prescription or not), that they are not in their right minds.

The economy is making people panic and do things beyond normal out of desperation.

$'s. The media is reporting more of the stories because they are controlled by the same people who want to sell guns so they fear monger the public into buying guns to protect themselves.

Divide and conquer is working and the public is blaming each other and taking matters to a crazy level.

Some are so lonely and looking for attention that they resort to desperate measures.

Showing this kind of news fills the "I'm aware" need so that people don't look further into what is going on on a bigger scale.

There are a lot more wacko's out there because of contamination from many sources. (food, drugs,air,water,media,religion,greed).


There are untrained and nutty people gaining access and using firearms. (including the police).

The media's showing of violence has finally desensitized individuals and the results of this are showing up.


Why there are not more shootings should be the question.

A playing field that is not level will trip people up.

Thankfully not all have "lost it" and some are still in touch with their humanity.

Time to level the field for everyone, so that everyone can feel good being a player in this world.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 46
view profile
History
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/26/2012 7:14:07 PM
Time to level the field for everyone, so that everyone can feel good being a player in this world

You had me until here. This is the cause.

We don't know what to do with broken people. We have began the process where we have equalized them with the rest of society. They have all the rights everyone else has. The criminals of society are being granted the same rights as citizens which basically means that everyone is a prisoner.

Imprisoning people is wrong... so we are told
http://www.voanews.com/content/norwegian-mass-killer-rules-sane-goes-to-prison/1494848.html

People are basically good and their economic circumstances is the cause of their violent behaviors so providing for them should alleviate that
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903520204576480542593887906.html

In the 1990s, the feds were embarrassed by skyrocketing crime rates in public housing—up to 10 times the national average, according to HUD studies and many newspaper reports. The government's response was to hand out vouchers to residents of the projects (authorized under Section 8 of the Housing and Community Development Act of 1974), dispersing them to safer and more upscale locales.

Section 8's budget soared to $19 billion this year from $7 billion in 1994. HUD now picks up the rent for more than two million households nationwide; tenants pay 30% of their income toward rent and utilities while the feds pay the rest. Section 8 recipients receive monthly rental subsidies of up to $2,851 in the Stamford-Norwalk, Conn., area, $2,764 in Honolulu and $2,582 in Columbia, Md.

But the dispersal of public housing residents to quieter neighborhoods has failed to weed out the criminal element that made life miserable for most residents of the projects. "Homicide was simply moved to a new location, not eliminated," concluded University of Louisville criminologist Geetha Suresh in a 2009 article in Homicide Studies. In Louisville, Memphis, and other cities, violent crime skyrocketed in neighborhoods where Section 8 recipients resettled.

After a four-year investigation, the Indianapolis Housing Authority (IHA) in 2006 linked 80% of criminal homicides in Marion County, Ind., to individuals fraudulently obtaining federal assistance



So, the world considers America a bad place because of the incarceration rate and places like Norway 21 years is the max no matter the crime to be leading. They have an awesome prison that would make life not so bad for the incarcerated. They even have a decently low crime rate
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/08/02/vbs.norwegian.prisons/index.html

It feels good... but then what:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/26/world/europe/26police.html

Over the last decade, the frequency of rape and other assault has inched ever higher, statistics show. Murder rates, however, have remained stable.

The increasing presence of foreign criminal networks active in Norway is part of the reason for higher crime rates, Ms. Holmen and others said, though domestic criminal groups have also become more brazen. Just two days after the attacks, men in military fatigues shot a 27-year-old man to death in his home in southern Norway, Norwegian news outlets reported.

Once it is fully realized that 'doing time isn't so bad' crime will eventually start to rapidly increase and would expect organized crime to seriously use places like this as bases of operations for the most damaging crimes.

Oops:
http://theoslotimes.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6127:sex-purchase-act-increases-human-trafficking-in-norway&catid=98:poltics&Itemid=577

The number of active prostitutes tends to decline following a police operation.



I like the idea of 'every prisoner will be released so rehabilitation and human treatment is key... Always ask.. And then what... How do you prevent the eventual exploitation? And then what? Build more prisons? And then what? Toughen laws? And then what?

So, whats with all the shootings? Politicians used police and prison system as a tool to meet state budget objectives. And then what? Not only were prisoners released but programs and funds used to investigate potential threats were restricted/limited. And then what? The likelihood and continued increase in random large scale violence committed by people know to be unstable will occur more frequently. And then what. People will blame the economy and ask for more assistance given to the disadvantaged. Repeat.
 Googleplus
Joined: 8/22/2012
Msg: 47
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/26/2012 7:18:41 PM
These shooting aren't by mistake, if you go to naturalnews.com and search batman shooting you will see some suspicious stuff like how can an unemployed graduate afford the weapons he had, these will military grade weapons.
 Blueline294
Joined: 3/28/2012
Msg: 48
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/26/2012 7:37:46 PM
All the equipment Holmes had can be purchased at Army/Navy Stores, pawn shops and online. As we the public don't know how he paid for them (can assure you LE does) but you speculate that he was given these items by the "Govt?". I checked out naturalnews and kind of looks like a online version of the enquirer.
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 49
view profile
History
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/26/2012 8:55:57 PM
aries: When I say level the field I mean: make sure that EVERYONE has clean air, clean water, warm/ dry shelter, access to info instead of propaganda, uncontaminated food, drugs that harm aren't being forced on them, fair hiring practices, fair wages, etc.

When things that are important for our well being aren't available to all, people will get fed up with the system and sh*t will hit the fan. This is how criminal behavior starts...they are sick of feeling/being deprived or over loaded. They ARE actually sick! In the head, the heart, the body. How does one expect an unhealthy individual to make healthy choices, never mind make healthy choices when access to these choices has been denied?
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 50
view profile
History
What is going on will all of the shootings....
Posted: 8/26/2012 9:35:39 PM
@DameRight

Although I understand what you are saying and there is relevance to it, what you have actually done is excuse bad behavior due to environmental conditions that are not going to change. Clean air, water, shelter, education, food, healthcare and labor laws... which of these things are not already being actively addressed? Why is there an increase now when these things are more accessible and in better conditions now then at any point in history?

All of these things are nice and good but they must be lacking in something relevant. To claim that access is restricted by some faceless greedy entity is just not the reality. It may feel like reality to many and especially on an anecdotal level but it doesn't exist as an institutional practice. To say that it does but not being able to point to it only shows the relevance of my point. There is something not correlating to peoples beliefs that poverty causes crime and that redistribution will correct it. What corrects it? A Job. Socialization and participation in governance and not beneficiaries of government programs. Ideals and values.

The one thing all of these programs fail in is simple. Trusting in the individuals to be self capable and self sustaining. They can do it. Just get out of the way.

A society should be judged on the amount of people not being provided for and on the ability of their citizens to provide for their own needs without assistance. Not on the size of the benefits programs of government. What I don't understand is... Didn't peoples parents teach this stuff to them? It seems so basic it feels pedantic even saying it. Get a job, maintain your responsibilities, take care of your family. And again, do not associate those that are physically and mentally incapable and unable to perform these things. That is not the same and a different subject.
Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > What is going on will all of the shootings....