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 AddCatchyNameHere
Joined: 7/23/2011
Msg: 76
Open Relationships: The best of both worldsPage 4 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
[/"I am seeing a lot statistics thrown around that have no real backup. Look at the 80% of men cheat stat and you never can get to the study, a nice number that someone picked to justify an argument and it suddenly becomes the truth. Same with the 50% of marriages in divorce. That number is also misinterpreted. Yes for every 100 marriages in the last year that stats were available for there were 50 divorces. But.... less marriages are occuring each year so you have to take those divorces back to the year in which the marriage happen. Those numbers suddenly drop. Then take out the serial marriages i.e. 2, 3 or more marriages that failed and the number drops yet again. So let's stop throwing around numbers that mean nothing as justification for our behaviour. The OP wants what he wants and wants us to validate that and guess what? He is in the wrong place for that."]


FALSE!!! I did look at statistics. 50% of INITIAL marriages end in divorce. There's a MUCH HIGHER recidivist rate in 2nd and 3rd marriages. Not sure where you looked at for your statistics, but they're all over the place saying what I'm asserting.
 AddCatchyNameHere
Joined: 7/23/2011
Msg: 77
Open Relationships: The best of both worlds
Posted: 9/16/2012 3:43:34 PM
Igorfrankensteen: Agreed. I do know what I think and I'm not looking for validation, but I guess I was wondering if anyone had anything to say that would really poke serious holes in what I'm saying. Other than the one girl who wrote about happiness coming from within, nothing anyone has said makes me any more convinced that monogamous relationships are objectively the way to go. Maybe for some people they are (although many of them will end up in the same boat, just doing it over and over again and hoping for better results next time, and never stepping back to see WHY their relationships always seem to go the same route), but I just don't think it's right for everyone. Especially not for me.

Also it's true that I haven't actually tried it. Point granted. I have no rebuttal for that. And the whole "those types of people do drugs and abuse alcohol" post... yeah, maybe so. But I'm a straight laced guy. Never touched a drug in my life. Not even weed. Conservative religious background. Bible minor. Double major bachelor's degrees (psych/american studies). Good career. House in the suburbs. Point is, I'm a normal guy I think. So I gotta believe there are "normal" girls out there who could think the same way as me. I don't think I need to settle and find some deviant to try this with...

O and one more point to the person who talked about the wise King Solomon NOT having lots of wives and a ton of concubines. Um, yeah he did. If you believe the Bible, which, if you don't then I guess maybe he never even existed, in which case it's a moot point. But if you do believe it, it's right there in the Bible. 1.) wisest man ever to live. 2.) lots of wives and lots of concubines

Finally, I'm not saying I want to be a mormon. The guys have tons of wives in that paradigm, but the women aren't free to have multiple partners. Totally not fair. But their society is based on a male being in a position of authority over the female, and I don't think that's the way it should be. It's a partnership.
 AddCatchyNameHere
Joined: 7/23/2011
Msg: 78
Open Relationships: The best of both worlds
Posted: 9/16/2012 3:45:03 PM
and will someone please explain to dummy mcdumberson over here how to quote a previous thread in my thread? (I'm just waiting for someone to say "he's as bad at figuring that out as he is at figuring relationships out" hahaha... BEAT YA TO IT!!!!)
 Fleuron
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 79
Open Relationships: The best of both worlds
Posted: 9/16/2012 3:50:14 PM
OP: Your time would be better spent watching the Bills game.


Edit:

Jeez. Try this:

[quote ] What you want to quote. [/quote ]

Simple code. Just close the brackets. It’s not like the directions to do it are on the posting screen or anything.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 80
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Open Relationships: The best of both worlds
Posted: 9/16/2012 5:02:49 PM

I did look at statistics. 50% of INITIAL marriages end in divorce.

Show me that information. I've looked many times, and I've yet to find any proof that 50% of marriages end in divorce (and so what if they did, but that's another topic altogether).

What I found is that generally speaking, the divorce rate is estimated to be between 38% and 43%, that the stats are based on incomplete information and that estimates and projections are too often based on flawed analysis as well as incomplete information.
http://www.divorcereform.org/rates.html#anchor168283
http://www.divorcereform.org/rates.html
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/d/divorce.htm http://www.divorcereform.org/nyt05.html http://psychcentral.com/lib/2012/the-myth-of-the-high-rate-of-divorce/all/1/
http://www.divorcereform.org/nonus.html
http://www.divorcereform.org/rates.html#anchor1223885
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2010/10/04/vanier-study004.html
http://ezinearticles.com/?What-Percentage-of-Marriages-End-in-Divorce?-5-US-Marriage-and-Divorce-Statistics&id=4863048
http://www.divorcemag.com/statistics/statsus.shtml

Marty Friedman said it best: "Percentage of first marriages that end in divorce in 1997: 50% (This is only an estimate, but everyone uses it as fact) "

Just think how much better informed we'd be if people used facts for facts, instead of guesses!
 Indysweetpea
Joined: 9/10/2012
Msg: 81
Open Relationships: The best of both worlds
Posted: 9/16/2012 5:46:00 PM
What is not being said here is this. Women think emotionally and men think more logically. You can say anything in theory but in real life the theory does not take into account for emotions. This may seem like a perfect arrangement but in reality will cause hurt and emotional scars. If I loved another person I could never be the cause of hurting them.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 82
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Open Relationships: The best of both worlds
Posted: 9/16/2012 7:09:21 PM

I really wish I wasn't a forum idiot and I knew how to quote people's previous threads in my quote, but I just don't get how to do it.


Obviously, you have ignored the instructions on how to do this, EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU HAVE POSTED. because right above the block where you are typing in your chat bit of the moment, there are instructions on how to do this.

You also apparently didn't understand what I wrote either, or didn't read it, since what I was specifically pointing out, was that your entire statement of why you are discussing this, is an indication that you are not comfortable with it.
 carolann0308
Joined: 12/9/2006
Msg: 83
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Open Relationships: The best of both worlds
Posted: 9/16/2012 7:27:49 PM
Try it. Go ahead and report back in a year or two from now just for sh1ts and grins.
I believe you believe what you are saying, the problem is you have no proof you could handle anything as selfless and as complicated as you are proposing.
 AddCatchyNameHere
Joined: 7/23/2011
Msg: 84
Open Relationships: The best of both worlds
Posted: 9/17/2012 1:01:16 AM

You also apparently didn't understand what I wrote either, or didn't read it, since what I was specifically pointing out, was that your entire statement of why you are discussing this, is an indication that you are not comfortable with it.


Totally figured out the quotation thing. winning. No, I'm not asking for approval... I know what I think. I'm asking for other people's opinions, not for validation, but because I want to know what people think of these ideas. Big difference. The desire for third party perspective doesn't equate to insecurity or the need for validation. It simply means I'm looking for outside perspectives to see if there's something I've missed. I'm always trying to learn. The second I'm so set in my ways that I go into "tunnel vision" mode, I'm screwed. Life to me is an enrollment in a giant university. I always want to be learning...
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 85
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Open Relationships: The best of both worlds
Posted: 9/17/2012 4:16:41 AM
The desire for third party perspective doesn't equate to insecurity or the need for validation.


It does, when the WAY you go about collecting third party opinions (for no apparent reason) includes repeated arguments about why you have made the choice you have. Go back and read all of your own entries. You are trying to persuade others, with your reasons for your own choice. That is not compatible with a passive desire for third party input.

Besides, as has been said to you repeatedly, and you have continued to ignore, is that if you actually believed all that you claim, you would never have bothered to post to begin with.
 Zencandy
Joined: 4/30/2007
Msg: 86
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Open Relationships: The best of both worlds
Posted: 9/17/2012 4:47:36 AM
Ick. Gross. I cannot imagine how happy the lucky recipient of your unprotected orgasm will be.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 87
Open Relationships: The best of both worlds
Posted: 9/17/2012 8:30:29 AM
I am a selfish son a ba b it ch. I do not like sharing a person that I am intimate with. I want such woman not to be thinking when or how to boing other men, I want her to be thinking about my c ock, my scruffy beard, the time we spend together.

I also have done my share of sleeping around. Have slept with gorgeous women that were horrible in bed, pretty women that were what I call natural beauties, that were awesome in bed, slept with hot women that actually were good in bed as well. So I am interest now in variety, I am interested in consistency. And that is where I am.

So for that purpose, the route to me is simple, a monogamous relationship with one woman that is interested in the same. Period. No in-betweens. If she may want to still meet other guys. Goodbye. Now, that does not mean that she has to be absolutely in love with me, that takes times, it takes work, and it takes doing. But all that should be the fun part. I don't want to wake up with 1000 different women. I want to wake up with a woman a 1000 different times.
 ManV2.0
Joined: 9/1/2012
Msg: 88
Open Relationships: The best of both worlds
Posted: 9/17/2012 10:23:18 AM
I think the open relationship concept is a sham. It's pretty much friends with benefits with a different catchy name.

You're sleeping with someone, yet you can date other people. Sounds like friends with benefits
You're texting someone, going out with them, but sleeping with other people. Sounds like friends with benefits

When I'm in a relationship, I'm in one with one person. Because that's who matters to me, everyone else around doesn't
 MustLuvDogz
Joined: 7/29/2012
Msg: 89
Open Relationships: The best of both worlds
Posted: 9/17/2012 12:22:29 PM
I think a lot of women (and perhaps men too) who tried this would succumb to the feelings of jealously. I know I would. This certainly does not apply to everyone though. I myself cannot even compare a friendship to a loving relationship because it's like apples and oranges. The person I am with who I love...there is a passionate bond that is so special that I would not want others to jump into the mix. Part of that special bond includes sex, which makes it more special because you're not out there doing it with other people, only each other. That's just my feelings on it, but I wouldn't want to share. I'd want him to be all mine and me to be all his :)
 femaleconnection
Joined: 8/12/2010
Msg: 90
Open Relationships: The best of both worlds
Posted: 9/17/2012 1:57:45 PM
Human behaviour wont change just because people CAN have sex with others....people take one another for granted over time regardless if they are having sex with one another or not.

I can see on the surface why people would think this is a better answer than marriage, but if you look at all of the dynamics of relationships, sex is really only 1 small part of it. The time we spend outside the bedroom matters more, no matter what anyone tries to tell you.

People who would never want to have sex with one another take one another for granted-parents/children...brothers and sisters...friends etc....people get comfy and they get complacent. It wont matter if your wife knows you CAN get some strange...over time, she will get comfy with you and take little things for granted.
 stayinalivefl
Joined: 8/23/2012
Msg: 91
Open Relationships: The best of both worlds
Posted: 9/17/2012 4:29:18 PM
Ask Gene Simmons,,,,,,,,,,,,,
it worked for him........
but then again , he had a lot to lose (if he was ) in a shitty marriage,,,,,,,,
 MacInOC
Joined: 2/19/2012
Msg: 92
Open Relationships: The best of both worlds
Posted: 9/17/2012 4:40:39 PM

Show me that information.


The www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0133.pdf document has a U.S divorce Rate per
1,000 population of:

48% for the year 1990 (4.7 / 9.8)
49% for the year 2000 (4.1 / 8.3)
50% for the year 2009 (3.4 / 6.8)

and this does show marriages going down and population going up over time. But with multiple data points over multiple years as well as by state, I'm confident to say there is certainly a trend that one could conclude a divorce rate close to 50% today.
 dmzvisitor
Joined: 3/25/2011
Msg: 93
Open Relationships: The best of both worlds
Posted: 9/17/2012 4:59:21 PM
What makes anyone think monogamy is the norm, anyway?

For the many centuries that Christian marriage was an economic partnership, fidelity was not a particularly important value--male fidelity, obviously, but elite women could have their lovers, too, once they delivered the heir and the spare.

Romantic love has not been the basis of marriage for most of the history of marriage, nor has "marriage," in the Western sense, been the basis of family life or society.

I don't have a horse in this race, but I would like to see people be a bit more aware of the "abnormality" of what they assume is, and always has been, the "norm" when it comes to "relationships."

If humans survived without romantic-love-based-marriage-for-life for as long as we did (and do, in some parts of the world), I'm sure we could do it again.
 FlaxenBlonde
Joined: 12/16/2010
Msg: 94
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Open Relationships: The best of both worlds
Posted: 9/17/2012 5:04:08 PM
DMZ--- I'm sure there are those who could, as you say, "I'm sure we could do it again," but there are those of us who do not want to. No amount of arguing will sway my opinion.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 95
Open Relationships: The best of both worlds
Posted: 9/17/2012 5:38:44 PM
The majority of people follow society's life script and have kids. What does a parent say to a kid when the partner in the marriage/relationship runs off to have sex with someone else and the kids says "Where's mommy/daddy going?" Do you say "He went to boink another woman/She went to get boinked by another guy"? When the kids get a little older and are past puberty, do you teach them that having multiple sex partners while in a committed relationship/marriage is an acceptable practice? How many parents want their daughters having multiple sex partners before and after marriage?

Speaking of women, if a woman gets pregnant and slows down the sleeping around because of feeling crappy at times while pregnant, would it be OK for the husband to still maintain his schedule for sleeping with other women-before and after the birth?
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 96
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Open Relationships: The best of both worlds
Posted: 9/17/2012 6:56:38 PM
The www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0133.pdf document has a U.S divorce Rate per
1,000 population of:

48% for the year 1990 (4.7 / 9.8)
49% for the year 2000 (4.1 / 8.3)
50% for the year 2009 (3.4 / 6.8)

.... I'm confident to say there is certainly a trend that one could conclude a divorce rate close to 50% today.

What those stats say is that per 1000 of population in 2009 (for example), 6.8 marriage licenses were issued and 3.4 divorces were filed, correct? However, the 3.4 people who divorced in 2009 were not among the 6.8 people who married in that year since the vast majority of people do manage to stay married for at least a year.

For accurate figures, the marriages in any given year would have to be tracked to see how many ended due to divorce vs. death. Comparing aggregate numbers of marraiges/divorces in any given year doesn't mean squat when it comes to figuring out how many marriages actually end up in divorce.

DMZ, great reminder of how recently "romance" and monogamy have actually been assumed to be norm and some kind of necessity.
 AddCatchyNameHere
Joined: 7/23/2011
Msg: 97
Open Relationships: The best of both worlds
Posted: 9/17/2012 9:09:22 PM

Besides, as has been said to you repeatedly, and you have continued to ignore, is that if you actually believed all that you claim, you would never have bothered to post to begin with.


I'm sorry... um, what? You're telling me that I'd just quietly go doing my thing if I truly believe in something? I guess me and you are different. If you thought you had the cure for cancer, you'd just be quiet about it? Hmmm... because I'd tell the whole world. Maybe I'd run it by some people first to make sure I didn't miss something in the formula, but yeah, I'd be pretty excited, and my passion about it would mean I'd want to talk about it because it would be on my mind a lot.
 AddCatchyNameHere
Joined: 7/23/2011
Msg: 98
Open Relationships: The best of both worlds
Posted: 9/17/2012 9:18:35 PM

I think the open relationship concept is a sham. It's pretty much friends with benefits with a different catchy name.


FWB is friends. Not a relationship. I've had that. It's empty. I don't want just a friend. I want a deep relationship. I want to know someone on a deep level and to be known by her too. Like what you have in a monogamous relationship. That's not just friends with benefits is it?

I think people think I'm some sex addict. Not true. I probably want/have sex less than most guys. It's NOT about that. It's not about some insatiable sex addiction where I just can't get enough. Not at all. It's about an ideal that I think would make a relationship have a better chance. So many people defend this Disney ideal "and they lived happily ever after". As if it's what really happens most of the time! People, it isn't! You're all on here bc your relationships didn't work! Neither did mine... so I'm saying doesn't it make the least bit of sense to anyone to try something different, even if it's unconventional? Everything that's outside of the box seems impossible... until it isn't. Seems to me that most of the time in relationships, it wasn't the "wrong person" the last time... you wouldn't have gotten with them if they were wrong... SOMETHING/SOMEONE CHANGED is my point... something always CHANGES when people stay together for a while in a committed monogamous relationship.
 AddCatchyNameHere
Joined: 7/23/2011
Msg: 99
Open Relationships: The best of both worlds
Posted: 9/17/2012 9:25:13 PM

I think a lot of women (and perhaps men too) who tried this would succumb to the feelings of jealously. I know I would. This certainly does not apply to everyone though. I myself cannot even compare a friendship to a loving relationship because it's like apples and oranges. The person I am with who I love...there is a passionate bond that is so special that I would not want others to jump into the mix. Part of that special bond includes sex, which makes it more special because you're not out there doing it with other people, only each other. That's just my feelings on it, but I wouldn't want to share. I'd want him to be all mine and me to be all his :)


...and I totally respect this. Open-mindedness that says "I don't think this would work for me, but I don't speak for everyone". I just don't like when people think others are dumb for disagreeing. Columbus was dumb too. And then he discovered that the world isn't flat. Still, Your feelings of jealousy and not wanting to "share" are common with women. Totally understandable. The only thing I'd say in that scenario is that jealousy comes from feeling like you aren't loved enough. My girl will never feel that way. If/when I find someone I want and she wants me, I'll make sure that she's the happiest girl in the world. I'll be free to do that because it won't be an obligation to do it. I'll be allowed to. She'll wonder how this counter-intuitive reasoning works, and she'll maybe wonder HOW she's happy, knowing what's occasionally going on that doesn't involve her (or that involves her and not me), but she won't argue with the bottom line. She'll feel loved, and she'll be happy. That's ultimately what everyone wants anyway.
 AddCatchyNameHere
Joined: 7/23/2011
Msg: 100
Open Relationships: The best of both worlds
Posted: 9/17/2012 9:34:00 PM

People who favor open "relationships" are trying to convince themselves that the can have the best of both worlds.. have their cake and eat it too.


Right there is my point. Do I want to have my cake and eat it too? DAMN RIGHT I DO!!! That "have your cake and eat it too" statement alone implies that there is better out there, but that we're supposed to "bear the burden" of having to choose... having to SACRIFICE. Have cake? OR eat it? WHYYYYYY???? Eat one and bake another one to have! Life is too short to sacrifice! Be happy! Get it all! I'll find someone that makes me HAPPY and accepts me for ME! And ALL OF ME!!! And I'll accept them for THEM, and ALL OF THEM!!! And it'll be AMAZING! It is possible! There's no need to be just sort of happy... it's a lie that we all just go on believing! People get together with someone, and then they want to change and restrict and put regulations on them... so they have to CHOOSE whether to have their cake OR to eat it. Well yes, I'd like both please. I'd like ALL of the facets of happiness. I don't want to settle for some. I choose to fight to have it all at the same time. Yes, I'll have my cake and eat it too. And more people would too if they just believed in it.

"Whether you think you can, or you think you can't... you're right!" -Henry Ford
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