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Show ALL Forums  > Australia  > At U.N., free speech divides West and Muslim nations      Home login  
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 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 40
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At U.N., free speech divides West and Muslim nationsPage 3 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
^^^ If the deletion is unrelated, you are not to blame. If it is related, then to an extent it validates your analogy. Occasionally we all have to choose between speaking what we perceive as the truth or holding our tongue for fear of hurting people's feelings. What we choose is usually based on our perceptions of what we think does that person the most good in the long run. Whether it does or not, we never know, but the important thing is that your intention was good.

"There is no contradiction between being compassionate and blunt" -Peter Boghossian
"He has a right to criticize who has a heart to help." - Abe Lincoln
 qldblue
Joined: 2/4/2009
Msg: 41
At U.N., free speech divides West and Muslim nations
Posted: 9/28/2012 7:52:15 PM
The blame for the Vietnam Conflict should be at the French as to the cause of the war, not the Americans, read the history books.

Noreiga may have been an employee of the CIA but he was also the leader of his own drug cartel.

As history reveals there are other countries that dominated smaller emerging nations long before the USA came on the scene.

If you were born in Japan and your parents were not Japanese then officially you cannot claim Japanese nationality.

I don't always agree with what the USA does but I do not attack the people personally and then claim free speech.

Then we have the policies of the Italians in their conquest of the Ethiopians in the 1930's as well as the policies of the Europeans in China at the start of the 20th century that led to the collapse of the then government, the occupation of Chinas northern lands by the Japanese.

The policies of Saudi Arabia I definately don't agree with but I don't hate the people.

A lot of western people believe in free speech but only to the extent of their views being the only ones that count, that isn't free speech that is being dictatorial.

I always wonder at the slogan chanting stooges who will claim that other countries are bad but will NEVER put themselves in the firing line.
 robertaus
Joined: 1/26/2010
Msg: 42
At U.N., free speech divides West and Muslim nations
Posted: 9/29/2012 2:37:41 AM

Thanks Robert for confusing Indo-china conflict with Vietnam War. Those two mean different things you know? With different belligerants as you have spotted out, US and before them French.



The blame for the Vietnam Conflict should be at the French as to the cause of the war, not the Americans, read the history books.


^^^^Good point really.The conflicts were fought in Vietnam.They are different in name only.No confusion there.


Yes Gulf of Tonkin incident concocted by USA.


So what.It was once again the fear of the spread of Communism that led to this:


The outcome of these two incidents was the passage by Congress of the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, which granted President Lyndon B. Johnson the authority to assist any Southeast Asian country whose government was considered to be jeopardized by "communist aggression". The resolution served as Johnson's legal justification for deploying U.S. conventional forces and the commencement of open warfare against North Vietnam.
....Wiki

Look it up and enlighten yourself.One of the incidents actually happened.


So what? I am saying some of the US bashing is deserved because of the hypocritical propaganda they've been spreading and using as an excuse to invade any country.


What hypocritical propaganda? Examples please.


Stalin and Hitler have been stopped, Third Reich and USSR doesn't exist anymore... however US still exists with its global empire now, concurrently.

YES genocidal... look at Vietnam war alone... they had to bomb neighbouring countries... Laos and Cambodia, destablizing the whole region. Guess how many millions died.
How about Iraq or Afganistan? or did you want me to talk about events that are no longer relevent... like you?


Well guess how many died at the hands of Stalin and Hitler.Oh I forgot that is no longer relevant.Why then is the Vietnam War relevant then?You mentioned the bombing of Laos and Cambodia, why is that relevant? Does that mean WW2 is not relevant? Probably would be to the surviving relatives of millions of people who died in that conflict.
How about Iraq of Afghanistan?

Saddam was a dictator who launched chemical weapons against his own citizens.

Afghanistan-Training base for Al-Queda.Oh I forgot they were responsible for 9/11.Remember that? Who knows what other attacks they had planned.

I suppose that the US preventing Australia being isolated in WW2 is not relevant either.
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 3/30/2010
Msg: 43
At U.N., free speech divides West and Muslim nations
Posted: 10/1/2012 4:07:09 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/09/30/jakarta-film-protest.html?cmp=rss

After all this time, they are still going nutso on the streets over it? lol

5000 Muslims chanting "Allahu akbar" march on U.S. Embassy -- "Go to hell with your freedom of expression".

But wait, they are allowed to use "freedom of expression" against America but we aren't allowed to use freedom of expression against a person who lived a zillion years ago who is mentioned in a book.

haha, what a crazy ****ed up world we live in.
 robertaus
Joined: 1/26/2010
Msg: 44
At U.N., free speech divides West and Muslim nations
Posted: 10/1/2012 9:41:00 PM
So does "freedom of expression" include insulting someone's religion?.Insulting something that they may feel deeply about.Even if it is a person who lived a zillion years ago and is mentioned in a book?
 MrsNaamah
Joined: 11/8/2011
Msg: 45
At U.N., free speech divides West and Muslim nations
Posted: 10/2/2012 6:19:20 PM
Are the beliefs of the supposedly devout really such a house of cards that they are threatened by cartoons, skits, derogatory songs, questions, challenges, and criticisms? So much so that it shakes their foundations and requires moral indignation? let alone retribution and war? If your religion is worth killing for, please start with yourself.

Whatever your beliefs or religion, nobody else owes it to you to hold your religious beliefs as being in any way sacred. If your beliefs are sacred to you, it shouldn’t matter what anyone else thinks of them. If you truly have an unwavering belief in something then any opposing views would not be perceived as threatening nor inspire anger. Just because you believe something does not make it true, particularly in the absence of any verifiable evidence. If you believe things that can be proven to be untrue, nobody is prevented from pointing that out to you, or even laughing at your beliefs. You can choose to be offended by that, but nobody has to care in the slightest that you feel offended. If you allow your beliefs to cause you to behave in a way that harms others or otherwise breaks the law, then your beliefs are not an excuse. Your own religious sensitivities are your problem.

Religious beliefs are personal and do not ever have to be "fought for" because your beliefs can only ever be changed by you.
 Hilly02
Joined: 10/7/2011
Msg: 46
At U.N., free speech divides West and Muslim nations
Posted: 10/3/2012 2:10:27 AM

If your religion is worth killing for, please start with yourself.

I totally need this on a T-shirt! lol
 RorschachTM
Joined: 1/28/2012
Msg: 47
At U.N., free speech divides West and Muslim nations
Posted: 10/6/2012 2:53:26 PM
LOL what a laugh, seems like pookie and tie_me_up needs some reading comprehension classes.
I pointed the finger at US and its policy makers, at no point did I actually turn it into a personal attack against pookie as pookie and tie_me_up claims.

I guess that shows guilty conscience of some people.

Thanks for laughs.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 48
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At U.N., free speech divides West and Muslim nations
Posted: 10/7/2012 2:04:37 AM
Well at least in some places religious fanatics are making love not war.

Philipino MILFs enticed by catholic president... http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-19860907
 NotJoeWalsh
Joined: 4/15/2012
Msg: 49
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History
At U.N., free speech divides West and Muslim nations
Posted: 10/7/2012 5:29:21 AM
Pookie, if you have, I'd like to know where you got the prescription, and how many of them pills you had to take to get there...

Just sayin...
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 3/30/2010
Msg: 50
At U.N., free speech divides West and Muslim nations
Posted: 10/8/2012 12:19:41 AM

I pointed the finger at US and its policy makers


Why are they or the whole USA in general should be bashed for what only a small group of people did in making that video?

That's where you totally fail
 RorschachTM
Joined: 1/28/2012
Msg: 51
At U.N., free speech divides West and Muslim nations
Posted: 10/8/2012 12:45:30 AM
By failing basic tenet of democracy, which is to hold your government accountable.
As previously listed in a comprehensive manner by another poster,
US has had alot of policy/decisions that upset alot of people.

By the failing to distinguish the state and its people, you fail as well my friend.

For citizens to say they did not know (better), once or twice fair enough. The whole situation of hostility towards US is accumulation of years of questionable acts. You cannot just wish away years of detriment and negation with good will, and US has done little in the way of addressing past grievances. While individual citizens are not directly responsible, indirectly as part of democratic process, they are responsible. You cannot practice years of political apathy and be surprised at the resulting mess.
 qldblue
Joined: 2/4/2009
Msg: 52
At U.N., free speech divides West and Muslim nations
Posted: 10/8/2012 12:53:39 AM
I suppose you could throw into that mix just about every other country as well, starting with Britain, France, China, Japan and the list goes on.
 RorschachTM
Joined: 1/28/2012
Msg: 53
At U.N., free speech divides West and Muslim nations
Posted: 10/8/2012 5:53:47 AM
Yes qldblue, except no other country seem to build resentment up like US.
Around Asia, Japan is not very popular for re-writing textbooks, especially regarding their own imperialistic ambition before and during WWII.
I mean years of imperialism, oh there won't be any consequences to taking resources from another and living prosperously off it. The original owners of resources will be happy to step aside and let someone else have it.
 ChuckieBrown
Joined: 9/29/2012
Msg: 54
At U.N., free speech divides West and Muslim nations
Posted: 10/15/2012 8:08:28 PM
Hey Jay Micheal your an idiot with a capital "I". You know nothing about World History and about Muslims, their religion or anything. Their blaming the
U. S. because for one thing we are largely a Christian Nation and two we back Israel whom they hate. Before you open your mouth read their Koran completely. They intend to over take every country in the World by immigrating in and set up their Religion.
Chuckie Brown the Yank
 RorschachTM
Joined: 1/28/2012
Msg: 55
At U.N., free speech divides West and Muslim nations
Posted: 10/16/2012 3:04:44 PM
Dear ChuckieBrown

Before you launch into another personal attack. How can you back up your claims? You are bit of a simple minded person aren't you? Seems like you don't know much either, coming into another forum, insults blazing but with little factual support. Doesn't seem like a wise course of action nor discourse.

Here is a tip. Iran as you know it and fear, has been put in place by USA, son... When USA helped in overthrowing the legitimate shah government and sold F-14s, AH-1 gunships and other assorted weapons to the "new" Iranian government. Typical US foreign policy in that area.

They don't hate you mainly because of your religion, yes your backing of Israel has irritated them, but it might be a time to face facts that US foreign policy itself that has earned US ire of the world. I think you should pick up a history book every now and then.
How about holding your govt accountable and do something about foreign policy if you are sick of bad rep... or you could just come on a dating website forum and blast a stranger who lives on the other side of planet, without engaging them first.

Your Sincerely
 robertaus
Joined: 1/26/2010
Msg: 56
At U.N., free speech divides West and Muslim nations
Posted: 10/17/2012 2:38:40 AM

Here is a tip. Iran as you know it and fear, has been put in place by USA, son... When USA helped in overthrowing the legitimate shah government and sold F-14s, AH-1 gunships and other assorted weapons to the "new" Iranian government. Typical US foreign policy in that area.


I thought the Shah Govt. (US backed)was overthrown by the Iranian revolution in about 1979.Then the Ayatolloh took over.The revolution was about the citizens rejecting Western values.Stuff like educating women and such.
Then Iraq decided to invade Iran and then the US backed Iraq.The Iran-Contra affair was another twist thrown in as well.Have you actually got your facts right?


I think you should pick up a history book every now and then.
....Wow!

If I remember rightly the conflict was largely about oil and the US concern about the Soviets having too large an influence in the area.

Typical US foreign policy in that area.[/quote[

Or would you rather prefer Iran has nuclear weapons?
 RorschachTM
Joined: 1/28/2012
Msg: 57
At U.N., free speech divides West and Muslim nations
Posted: 10/17/2012 4:23:40 AM
Hmmm... looks like I did make some mistakes whilst typing in hurry.

I am pretty Ayatollah did not take over mainly due to women's education, more due to the influence US was having upon Iran.

My original point to our US friend still stands.


Or would you rather have nuclear weapons?

I don't know where you get your staunch pro-USA stance from, but you don't see USA doing something about India, Pakistan or North Korea do you? or even Israel? To answer your original question, probably not, but that does not deny them the right to have it as a sovereign nation. Probably will make Israel think twice before acting with impunity, regarding their neighbours sovereignty.
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 3/30/2010
Msg: 58
At U.N., free speech divides West and Muslim nations
Posted: 10/26/2012 1:25:03 AM
Egyptian Cleric Alaa Said Ridicules Christianity and Vows to Instate Islamic Law in Egypt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzcorxbktLM&feature=player_embedded

If he were a Christian cleric similarly ridiculing Islam, there would be an international uproar, calls for his murder, and discussion at high levels of restrictions on the freedom of speech.
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