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 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 17
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Abu Hamza al-Masri's health has deterioratedPage 2 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
would it not be fantastic news IF he ever gets sent over the pond
that he has had a miraculous recovery and was going to live another
30 years in a super max jail?

i cannot see the yanks employing someone to wipe his arse because
the poor wee rodent doesnt want to rip his jacksy open with a hook.

''HATE preacher Abu Hamza has refused any more treatment from his prison nurse after finding out the man is gay.
The nurse, nickname Queenie, has been helping to wash and dress the convicted terrorist for more than two years.
A prison source told the Mirror the full-time staffer is openly gay and has a camp voice.
The source said: "The nurse is upset about it. He has spent the last couple of years doing everything for Hamza, even wiping his bottom.''
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hamzas-gay-hate-485595 (its in the mirror it must be true)

this geezer has the right idea lol
''Re: Abu Hamza
Posted by: Capt. Trump (IP Logged)
Date: 02 October, 2012 23:08
I`d tie his good hand behind his back till the day he croaks, and make the cun tt wipe his arrse with his hook !! ''
http://www.thefootballnetwork.net/boards/read/s37.htm?38,13538820,13553793
 Graffiti_Poet
Joined: 1/2/2011
Msg: 22
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Abu Hamza al-Masri's health has deteriorated
Posted: 10/5/2012 7:14:55 AM
What a disgraceful decent into bigotry and discimination this thread has become. The hatefest of offensive comments about this mans disabilities shames the people who make them. The rights and protections afforded to us all under the ECHR and our own statute have been hard won against the biggotted voices such as those seen in here over many years and have been tried and tested in our judicial system over the years to ensure that we are all protected from those who would deny us our basic rights and freedoms. That so many, and noticably mostly angry white men, would have those protections taken from us all because of their irrational hatreds is sad and shameful.

If we are to be protected from governments and politicians who would seek to remove habius corpus and our rights to freedom of speech then we have to support the rights of everyone to protections under those laws and not just those we happen to agree with. Our government has been involved in extra judicial imprisonments & assassinations, illegal rendition, illegal wars, murder of children through sanctions, internment without trial and torture and all in very recent memory. If we take away Abu Hamza's rights then we forfeit our own along with it. Just because you don't think you will ever need those protections is no reason to support their removal and just as with Gary McKinnon and some of the others who will be extradited along with Abu Hamza we should not be so eager to see British citizens sent to another country where we know they will be subjected to torture, inhuman treatment and subjected to a Kangaroo court system deviod of justice and fairness.


First they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.

Martin Niemöller

................GP
 Graffiti_Poet
Joined: 1/2/2011
Msg: 25
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Abu Hamza al-Masri's health has deteriorated
Posted: 10/5/2012 7:58:30 AM
Give it a try in 50 years time, after we've killed all the terrorists.


So for the next 50 years you are happy for our government and police to indiscriminately kill, maim, torture & 'disappear' anyone they feel the need too in the 'national interest'?. Whilst you are fully entitled to be of that opinion, may I ask does your belief that it is the right thing to do extend to yourself and members of your family?

Your statement about the upcoming EU referendum is a bit silly if I may say so. The EU has nothing to do with ECHR and Human Rights legislation, it is, HR law that is, completely seperate to the EU and is over 90% written and designed by the UK and has been touted around the world for the last 60 years by the UK government as the defacto standard for all world governments to adopt and adhere to. We will look awfully silly trying to repeal it here in the UK were such an impossible scenario ever to happen IMHO.........
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 26
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Abu Hamza al-Masri's health has deteriorated
Posted: 10/5/2012 8:20:24 AM
graffiti

i usually enjoy your posts mate but i am afraid this time you are talking bollocks.

'' The hatefest of offensive comments about this mans disabilities shames the people who make them. ''

he is an egyptian. he is not a british citizen
''Abu Hamza al-Masri was born in Alexandria, Egypt as Mustafa Kamel Mustafa in 1958, the son of a middle class army officer. In 1979, he entered Britain on a student visa.[1]''

yet he fought as a jihadist/mercenary is bosnia and afghanistan. and thats where his disabilities came from.
In the early 1990s, Masri lived in Bosnia, with a forged identity document, where he fought alongside Bosniaks against Serbs and Croats during the Bosnian War.[4][5]
He lost both hands and an eye whilst on a de-mining project near Jalalabad, during the war against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan as a jihadist/mercenary

he does not respect the laws of our country(no shock there then)
Masri was formerly the imam of Finsbury Park Mosque, and a leader of "Supporters of Sharia", a radical group that believed in a strict interpretation of Islamic law.

he was of course a model citizen who respected the host nation
Guilty of six charges of soliciting murder under the Offences against the Person Act 1861; not guilty on three further such charges.
Guilty of three charges related to "using threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour with the intention of stirring up racial hatred" under the Public Order Act 1986, not guilty on one further such charge.
Guilty of one charge of owning recordings related to "stirring up racial hatred".
Guilty of one charge of possessing a "terrorist encyclopaedia" under the Terrorism Act 2000, s58. This charge under the Terrorism Act of 2000 related to his possession of an Encyclopedia of Afghan Jihad, an Al Qaeda Handbook and other propaganda materials produced by Masri.[22]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Hamza_al-Masri

farewell to the rodent i say.

you then wrote
'' The rights and protections afforded to us all under the ECHR and our own statute have been hard won against the biggotted voices such as those seen in here over many years and have been tried and tested in our judicial system over the years to ensure that we are all protected from those who would deny us our basic rights and freedoms.''

well lets start by reinstating the double jeopardy law and releasing those who have been convicted since its removal eh?

As the law then stood, none of them could be tried again for the same offence. A prosecution would have been barred under the old common law principle known as autrefois acquit, more commonly referred to as the rule against double jeopardy.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2012/jan/03/double-jeopardy-change-law-retrial

also
'' The rights and protections afforded to us all under the ECHR and our own statute have been hard won''

does this mean then that asylum seekers who have passed through virtually every country in the european union
can now be sent back on the eurostar because as far as i know all the european union countries are classed as safe countries. so no need to head for the uk is there? they can get their rights and protections in other countries.

unless the 'hard won' laws do not apply to everyone?

and finally
''ensure that we are all protected from those who would deny us our basic rights and freedoms.''

does that mean the whole raft of pc liberal laws can now be booted into touch and we can once again have freedom to say what we want? because until we have that right restored and the draconian pc liberal laws removed then why should i bother my ever expanding arse about a hook handed jihadist/mercenary, sharia law worshiping dafty being deported to america?
 feyfaith
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 33
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Abu Hamza al-Masri's health has deteriorated
Posted: 10/5/2012 11:01:31 AM
Can't we just leave him to rot on an NHS waiting list somewhere?
 feyfaith
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 35
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Abu Hamza al-Masri's health has deteriorated
Posted: 10/5/2012 11:26:06 AM
There are lots of English translations of the Koran around now. Anyone who thinks Abu Hamza practices Sharia with regards to his own conduct is seriously deluded. Islam does not and never has reccomended that it's followers follow the kind of immoral, parasitic lifestyle this individual practices. Several of his adult sons are thuggish criminals with convictions for crimes as diverse and unislamic as car theft, mugging, fraud & violence. The mere thought of earning an honest days pay has patently never occurred to them.

The man is just scum his only real skill is exploiting our ignorance of Islam legally to feather his own nest, and stirring up those too stupid to read the Koran for themselves.

Send the man directly to a Sharia Court for judgement under his preferred system and see how long he lasts.
 DAFT_DOG
Joined: 4/23/2011
Msg: 47
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Abu Hamza al-Masri's health has deteriorated
Posted: 10/5/2012 8:10:53 PM
as i type this, he`s currently mid atlantic having left RAF mildenhall just before midnight uk time, ,bound for the US, and about bloody time too.
 Graffiti_Poet
Joined: 1/2/2011
Msg: 48
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Abu Hamza al-Masri's health has deteriorated
Posted: 10/6/2012 2:00:13 AM
I usually enjoy your posts mate but I am afraid this time you are talking bollocks.


Thank you for that Vlad. I am well aware that I can and do talk as much bollocks on here as the next person but in this case I can mitigate my comments in a way that I hope does not look as if I am defending my enemies, which is what Abu Hamza and his ilk are, but hopefully causes you and others to think slightly differently about the understandable vitriol and abuse targeted at this man.

Firstly if I may, let me take the issue that first caused me to comment, his disabilities. Leaving aside for a moment how he came by his injuries, I will return to that shortly, is it really the case that peoples objections and arguments against this man and what he is accused of doing is so weak and so indefensable that it is necessary to recourse to such nasty and offense comments about his physical injuries?. Imagine if you would a bunch of Poppy burning protesters had similarly targeted a UK or American serviceman with similar injuries sustained in a similar manner. Can you imagine the reaction and comments towards those protesters in here and elsewhere were that to happen?. Well those people who make those comments, regardless of their beliefs as to how he became disabled or how objectionable the find him and his belief are behaving no differently than those Poppy burners and should, IMHO, be held in similar contempt for those comments and actions.

I have no idea if your history of Abu Hamza and how he came to be disabled is correct although I suspect it may very well be. However, on the assumption that it is and he did indeed fight in both Afghanistan and Bosnia as you state as a 'Jihadist' / terrorist. It is not uncommon for todays terrorist to become tomorrows freedom fighter and vice versa. When he (AH) fought against the Soviets in Afghanistan he was not regarded as a terrorist by the UK or America. He was given material support, supplies, both lethal and non lethal, training, funding, logistical support and to some degree medical care and attention or at least supplied with field dressings and other medical equipment all paid for by you and me through the govenments of the UK, America and Israel. To-wit, he was not a terrorist, although he was a Jihadist, but he was in fact a freedom fighter and a hero not too dissimilar to the heros that went to fight Franco's fascists after WWII. It was not until the war on terror was launched and Afghanistan was attacked by the western allies that he became recognised as the terrorist he is and always was. A similar case can be made for his involvement in Bosnia where he again was 'on our side' and not a terrorist in the eyes of our beloved leaders. Given that he was in fact, according to our government, fighting for us to keep the reds from getting under our beds, then once again the abuse hurled at him for his injuries can be seen as being no more justified and as equally abhorent as it would be if it had been hurled at one of our own injured servicemen or woman IMHO.

This reclassification of just who is or is not a terrorist and our enemy is sadly a common event here in the UK and America. Nelson Mandela was to Mrs. Thatcher et al a terrorist of the worst kind fully deserving of his imprisonment and torture right up until the moment when he wasn't a terrorist any more but a hero and statesman of the highest calibre admired and respected by all. A more recent example of the ephemerality of the designation terrorist is that of a certain Mr. Belhadj a resident of Benghazi in Lybia. He had for many years been a primary target of both the UK and USA terrorist extermination programme for his role as the number 1 recruiter of Jihadist and suicide bombers sent to kill and main our forces in Iraq and Afghanistan and who, over the last decade or so, has the blood of dozens if not hundreds of dead and wounded NATO force personel on his hands. He is now, as I am sure you know, the leader of the Lybian armed forces, fully armed and supported by William Hague et al and feted as a freedom fighter and champion of democracy. Who'd a thunk it eh!!!!..............GP
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 49
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Abu Hamza al-Masri's health has deteriorated
Posted: 10/6/2012 6:26:28 AM
graffiti

i know what you are trying to say mate. but history is littered with the abuse of enemies because of traits or disabilities. as an example.
hitler has only got one ball
and another
the one eyed nick griffin, one lamp, one yak. you cannot be saying that you object to that abuse are you?

i cannot see however the point you are making regarding the poppy burners. you say
''Imagine if you would a bunch of Poppy burning protesters had similarly targeted a UK or American serviceman with similar injuries sustained in a similar manner. ''

but they have targeted our disabled servicemen in sellyoak hospital in birmingham. and the one MASSIVE difference between hamza and the uk or american SERVICEMEN. they were wearing uniforms.
at the behest of our respective governments they were sent to war (wrongly in my opinion) and
were not acting as mercenarys like hamza and his ilk.
hamza in both conflicts i mentioned never wore a uniform therefore he was/is a jihadist/terrorist. whether we were arming them or not is immaterial the fact is he was a mercenary.
how much sympathy was shown to foreign volunteers of the waffen ss after fighting against communism in ww2? the same communist regime we were allied with then spent years and countless billions fighting against?

again i know what you mean about political expediency. how former enemies become allies. its the 1984 syndrome eh? we have ALWAYS been at war with eurasia

also you wrote
''A more recent example of the ephemerality of the designation terrorist is that of a certain Mr. Belhadj a resident of Benghazi in Lybia. ''
is or was mr belhadj ever a resident in the uk as hamza was? if he was resident in the uk did he ever call for the murder of folk?

would you welcome the return of treason laws? i have no objection to folk protesting about government actions. protest against the wars we are involved in as well. i do not think we should be involved in those wars. but calling for the death of our servicemen/women whilst living in this country must be seen as treason IMHO.

lol even the liberal independant managed to get a popular headline in even if it was just to try and have a pop at the sun and their style of journalism.
Hook-handed hate preacher Abu Hamza is off to the US
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/iv-drip/hookhanded-hate-preacher-abu-hamza-is-off-to-the-us-8174742.html

an excellent point was made by another poster. IF sharia law was allowed to be practiced as hamza wanted what would have happened to his terrorist/criminal sons? what punishment would have been meted out? bet the criminal ones are glad it was soppy auld hamstrung british justice eh?

anyway is cheerio to the hookster
 Graffiti_Poet
Joined: 1/2/2011
Msg: 50
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Abu Hamza al-Masri's health has deteriorated
Posted: 10/6/2012 7:51:04 AM
Hi again Vlad, Would I object to Nick Griffin being abused because of his disability?, I like to think I would yes. I spent a great deal of time blogging in a forum similar to this frequented by members and activists of the BNP and eventually came to find them far removed from the caracature Alf Garnet / bigots the media would have us believe they are. That said though, my objections to the BNP / EDL / UKIP / anybody else I tend to disagree with, however vehemently I oppose their views, have never gave rise to me focussing on a physical disability or trait to engage in abusive name calling as a means of expressing my objections or alternative viewpoint. As I said in the now deleted intellegent racist thread, we are all racist at heart so I fully understand how easily we are made to be angry at such people, as easy as they make it for us to be angry at them aside, in order to control us and make us do their bidding as opposed to them doing ours. I am in no way defending this man or his co-horts and will shed no Crocodile tears for any discomfort or suffering he may receive inside the American judicial / penal system but stand by my ascertion that when we engage in open and vocal abuse at a person specifically for their disability then we are behaving no better than the Poppy burners. That is my position regardless of uniforms or any other means of trying to justify such behaviour.

Mr. Belhadj was indeed once a resident of the UK. He was you may recall, the very same chap that was illegally kidnapped and renditioned back to Lybia for our ally and partner in the war on terror Mr. Muhamar Gaddafi to imprison, torture and eventually 'disappear' as we had done with so many others before him. Not only did he actively call for the murder of our servicemen and women, he actually did it, with his own hands by the continued recruitment, funding and training of Jihadi fighters and suicide bombers whilst resident here in the UK. Still I s'pose we mustn't focus on that now that he is a freedom fighter and the best hope we have for peace and democracy in the new failed bandit state of Lybia.

May I ask, if the only criteria by which you differentiate between a terrorist / mercenary / legitimate combatant is the wearing of a uniform, what does that make the members of the SAS and other elite forces of France / Qatar / Italy etc. who fought side by side, in civis, with the terrorists cum rebels cum terrorists again in Lybia recently and in Syria right now?.........

PS, I have no views to speak of on the treason laws you mention other than to say that our jails would be very very full of fellow Britons, particularly Irish ones, were such laws to be enforced with an equal rigor as you would have them enforced against Abu Hamza and his nasty associates........GP
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 51
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Abu Hamza al-Masri's health has deteriorated
Posted: 10/6/2012 9:04:46 AM
graffiti
''May I ask, if the only criteria by which you differentiate between a terrorist / mercenary / legitimate combatant is the wearing of a uniform, what does that make the members of the SAS and other elite forces of France / Qatar / Italy etc. who fought side by side, in civis, with the terrorists cum rebels cum terrorists again in Lybia recently and in Syria right now?.........''

i admire those folk in the special forces whatever country they hail from. they are of course military units. they are sent by governments to act as they do. but as far as i am aware, perhaps someone who knows about these things can inform us, if you are not in uniform then the geneva convention does not apply. you are indeed an insurgent. and i would imagine insurgents would be treated the same as collaborators.

I.4. Special forces
Numerous armies have special forces. Generally, they are very specialized units, employed far behind enemy lines for incursions, reconnaissance operations or sabotage missions. They can also be used for internal security tasks, such as combating hostage-taking or terrorism. These units are part of the armed forces in the same way as those described above. During operations, they must be recognizable as combatants, by their uniforms, their insignia. Special forces who operate in civilian attire or dressed in the uniform of the enemy can be punished. Their members nevertheless have the right to a fair trial and must be treated in a manner equivalent to prisoners of war for the whole time of the judicial proceedings.
http://www.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v2_cou_ci_rule4

but these rules apply to army special forces. as far as i can see an individual who takes it upon himself to travel to another country and fight do not enjoy the same rights.

these geezers were the same as hamza. they were mercenarys. although some fought for idealogical reasons they were afforded no rights because they were not enemy combatants.
Christian Thomas
An International Volunteer of Irish or Welsh nationality who belonged to the 9th Bojna (Battalion) of HOS. Later having transferred into the HVO, he was reportedly killed in action in the village of Suica just north of Tomislavgrad, Bosnia during 1995. The exact date is unknown.

Andrew Myers
Andy Myers became something of a legend amongst the International Volunteer movement. He was a former British paratrooper and veteran of the Falklands War of 1982. In 1991 He volunteered for the Croatian National Guard and served in 106 Brigade HV at Osijek, Croatia until 1992 where he acquired a reputation as an excellent, professional soldier in the bitter fighting of the Vukovar Front.
http://www.cfiva.org/cfiva/remembrances/index.cfm
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 56
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Abu Hamza al-Masri's health has deteriorated
Posted: 10/7/2012 8:46:26 AM
i for one do not support the nato actions that went on in libya. i also do not like
the way we are supporting the rebels in syria. we have a record of getting involved
in places wheres its nothing to do with us.

iraq, afghanistan and the former yugoslavia all spring to mind

in every one of the above, the countries have been left destabalised and slaughter
has commenced between the warring factions.

so i would say its time to bring our troops home and let the nations above have their
civil wars and slaughter each other until their wee hearts are content.
 Pete2205
Joined: 3/18/2011
Msg: 57
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Abu Hamza al-Masri's health has deteriorated
Posted: 10/7/2012 1:16:38 PM
Get off your soapbox Graffiti your talking rubbish.

The Human Rights Act has been abused since the day of its inception. This scumbag Hamza has been preaching hatred and inciting violence since the day he came to this country. He has freeloaded off a welfare system that was devised to look after the people of THIS country. He spat in the face of the people that welcomed him into a country that gave him sanctuary from torture.

He has lived well and eaten more than most judging by his obese body at the UK tax payers expense for many years. His has been a parasite and there will be many Muslims and followers of Islam in this country who will be glad to see the back of someone who has cast a dark shadow over thier faith.

If you actually bothered to read some of the rants of cleric Hamza then even you with your blinkers would see the value he puts on human rights. He will now face an American court and answer for the crimes he is has been charged with.

The man was arrogant enough to believe that he would always be free to sponge off this country and spread hate and vitriol wherever he chose and never be called to account. People are dragged through the courts every day accused of racism or discrimination, they are dismissed from employment, they get criminal records. If you are found to be a member of a right wing organisation then you are barred from positions of authority and excluded from applying for many kinds of work but this scum and others of his ilk have been allowed free reign to do as they please.

Now he has gone a precident has been set and a message sent out to every other free loading extremist that sucks of this country - All we have to do now is get rid of the other fanatical nutters such as Hamza.

I suspect that there was a big sigh of relief in many mosques up and down the country when the word came that he was on a plane at last to the USA

(This thread was about Hamza not other issues)
 Graffiti_Poet
Joined: 1/2/2011
Msg: 60
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Abu Hamza al-Masri's health has deteriorated
Posted: 10/8/2012 8:01:12 AM
Hi Day-Trader, apologies for the late reply to your comment #30 but I've only just seen your post.

You are of course quite free to be content with a government that would 'disappear' people who happen to oppose or speak out about their failures and breaches of trust. It all seems a bit too 'Latin American / Central African' for my tastes but hey ho that's just me. Your open willingness to see bad things happen to those deemed to be terrorists or a threat to national security based purely on your belief that it will not ever effect you and yours is, if I may say so, quite shaky ground on which to base your feelings of security and safety IMHO.

Let me try to outline a scenario that could happen to you or some other member of your close family and see if we can test your premise that such behaviour is acceptable to you come what may from a government that you know with 100% certainty that you cannot and should not trust.

You have a degree according to your profile. Now imagine that you, or one of your siblings if you have them, or a nephew or niece or other person whom you 'love' went to a university to study for a degree at a university well away from where you live. You, or they, necessarily, on a cost basis at least, moved into a residential area popular with students from your university and quite possibily into multi occupancy housing. All quite reasonable and possible so far I presume.

Now your university will undoubtedly have any number of foreign students studying there as well as large numbers of UK students of an Asian or African heritage. Now given that neither you nor any of the other 'potential' family members I put forward are particularly of a racist persuasion and came to be a bit friendly with one of these overseas or ethnic fellow students, particularly if they were very 'westernised' in their behaviours and attitudes. Not great friends you understand but aquaintences on slightly more than just nodding terms. Still with me?, still see this is plausable?.

Now imagine one of these fellow students gets chatting to you one night in the student bar after you or the person you love has had a few and they tell you they have a short term problem with their grant or their landlord or something else and they need to do a bit of sofa surfing for two or three days til it's sorted. There is every possibility that because of the alcohol or because they are a 'sort of mate' or course colleague that you or your loved one agrees and the person involved spends a few nights on the sofa in your lodgings. Now this happens lots and lots as you probably know having been and got a degree yourself.

Now just imagine that this sofa surfing friend, totally unbeknown to you or anyone else likes to get his rocks off on a forum similar to this one but his forum is frequented by wanna be Jihadis or Jihadist sympathisers and during his posting on that blog he regularly lets rip with a few Allah Akbars and other such twaddle. Imagine too that the mosque he regularly attends collects funds to send to their Muslim brothers around the world who are in distress as they all do and your sofa surfing chum has thrown the odd handful of shekels into the pot a few times.

Now this is all somewhat of a 'game-changer' because your temporary guest can be shown to be actively supporting terrorists in a material way. And what is more.... so can you or your loved one by having given them shelter, and you, or they, can be now also subjected to an American request for arrest and extradition and this government would support and comply with that arrest and deportation.

Not going to happen I can almost hear you saying, but you can't say why it won't, you just 'know' it won't. Well that is almost exactly the scenario by which one of the men extradited along with Abu Hammza found himself to be in that predicament so it could and has happened just fortunately not to you or yours this time, but to someone else.

If it had been you, or your loved one, would you still be so keen to see people 'disappeared' because they were deemed a security threat and would you still be so happy to have seen the protections of the ECHR and British judiciary removed?. It would be interesting to hear just how you might plan to fight to stop yourself or your loved one being send to endure the inhuman and degrading justice-less treatment those now deported will be facing............GP
 Skydiver127
Joined: 5/31/2010
Msg: 64
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Abu Hamza al-Masri's health has deteriorated
Posted: 10/8/2012 11:29:46 AM
The problem is if he dies before his trial it will seem like he's been let off the hook. :)
 andy1961
Joined: 6/15/2006
Msg: 65
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Abu Hamza al-Masri's health has deteriorated
Posted: 10/8/2012 2:38:07 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
LOL !
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 66
Abu Hamza al-Masri's health has deteriorated
Posted: 10/9/2012 10:21:04 AM
I don't know why people take these nutters in fancy-dress, seriously.
(And I include in that, the Archbishop of Canterbury!)
His health hadn't deteriorated, it was clearly just another last-ditch attempt to stall extradition.
Apparently he has "mental health problems", but IMO he was already barking mad. [Med. Term]
I don't see why he was extradited to the USA., I thought Yemen was first in the queue.

This self-styled cleric, (and let's not forget that all clerics, priests, mullahs, rabbis and vicars etc are self-styled, although they would doubtless tell you it was a "calling from god", rather conveniently,[for them] "god" has so far neither refuted nor confirmed their claims) is not responsible for the various kidnappings etc he has been charged with, that was clearly someone else.

I don't subscribe to the notion that "evil" people are responsible for the actions of the idiots who listen to them.
People are each responsible only for their own actions, and the "I was only following orders" defence has long-since been discredited and dismissed.

As far as "inciting racial hatred" goes, isn't that what every general, and every military leader attempts to instill in his troops..?
When our noble leaders[/sarcasm] declare war on entire civilian populations, for the actions of a few 'militants', isn't that "incitement of racial hatred" too...?

I don't give a shit what happens to this moron.
As long as good people continue to "respect" the kind of neolithic, superstitious drivel which all religious people spout, idiots like this, will be given a platform for their delusions, and the feeble-minded will continue to take all of the instructions in the 'old testament' literally, and we'll keep having to fight "just wars", again, and again.
"God" just loved violence.
 safaa30
Joined: 3/1/2012
Msg: 70
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Abu Hamza al-Masri's health has deteriorated
Posted: 10/10/2012 5:59:58 PM
What's ridiculous is that for all his alleged wrong doing, he couldnt be tried here.

For those who asked, if we had sharia law he would have the death penalty. ..what many seem to wish for....oh the irony!
 Forrest Grump
Joined: 6/2/2007
Msg: 74
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Abu Hamza al-Masri's health has deteriorated
Posted: 10/11/2012 3:27:12 PM
Graffiti Poet
Msg 22


If we take away Abu Hamza's rights then we forfeit our own along with it.


Some might read this that you think Abu Hamza’s rights were violated, whereas I feel most peoples would be of the opinion that the UK Government have bent over backwards to ensure that his rights under UK Law and ECHR Law were fully complied with.

I can’t therefore see why you feel Martin Niemoller’s poem is applicable (unless you don’t agree with the charges brought against him).


Just because you don't think you will ever need those protections is no reason to support their removal and just as with Gary McKinnon and some of the others who will be extradited along with Abu Hamza we should not be so eager to see British citizens sent to another country where we know they will be subjected to torture, inhuman treatment and subjected to a Kangaroo court system deviod of justice and fairness.


Do you really feel that Gary McKinnon will be subject to torture and inhumane treatment in the US?

Abu Hamza will be dealt with in a Civilian Court. I very much doubt that his Legal team will let any torture or inhumane treatment go unnoticed. The very fact that the Court case will be seen by the public (and no doubt discussed ad nauseam in the media) should satisfy even those who feel that the US Court system is a Kangaroo Court.

Msg 25


So for the next 50 years you are happy for our government and police to indiscriminately kill, maim, torture & 'disappear' anyone they feel the need too in the 'national interest'?.


Come on GP. You make the UK seem like a South American country where busloads of people were rounded up, held in a football stadium and then” disappeared”, never to be seen again. Bit over the top!

Day-trader Msg 30

Can you please advise why you feel GP [in Msg25) is wrong stating that the ECHR has nothing to do with the EU?
 Graffiti_Poet
Joined: 1/2/2011
Msg: 75
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Abu Hamza al-Masri's health has deteriorated
Posted: 10/12/2012 3:00:12 AM
Hi Forrest Grump,


Some might read this that you think Abu Hamza’s rights were violated, whereas I feel most peoples would be of the opinion that the UK Government have bent over backwards to ensure that his rights under UK Law and ECHR Law were fully complied with.

I can’t therefore see why you feel Martin Niemoller’s poem is applicable (unless you don’t agree with the charges brought against him).


Some people might indeed read that interpretation into what I wrote if they so choose as it is always difficult to write in such a way that whatever you write is not open to mis-interpretation, but they would in this case be wrong. I have little or no sympathy for the man as he is a nasty piece of work and is deserving, if he is found to be guilty of the charges against him that is, of everything that comes his way. My comment was about the rank and file calls for the abolition of the Human Rights act and the other legal protections to which, as you rightly say, he was afforded full and complete access. All our laws, without exception, are written pedantly and all too often in undue haste to meet a current newly arisen problem or perceived problem. Although they are quickly added to the statute when written and signed off by the queen, it is not until they have been fully tested in the highest courts we have that we can be fully confident that they will be properly able to do whatever it was they were intended to do and give us the protetions they were intended to do. The case of Abu Hamza is such a necessary test of our HR laws. Whilst it can and should be argued that weaknesses in the legislation have been exposed by this case, that is arguably a good thing and will enable us to review and amend the law as deemed necessary to make it work properly.

That Abu Hamza is a radical cleric, a terrorist / sympahiser, a thoroughly objectionable person etc etc has no bearing on it and to call for the abolition of the ECHR and HR laws just because his case has tested the laws and courts to the limits and found them to be wanting is fundamentally the wrong thing to do. If such laws and protections are removed or weakened instead of being strengthened because of him then they are removed or weakened for us all. Hence the poem.



Do you really feel that Gary McKinnon will be subject to torture and inhumane treatment in the US?

Abu Hamza will be dealt with in a Civilian Court. I very much doubt that his Legal team will let any torture or inhumane treatment go unnoticed. The very fact that the Court case will be seen by the public (and no doubt discussed ad nauseam in the media) should satisfy even those who feel that the US Court system is a Kangaroo Court.


Yes I do. Gary McKinnon is a disabled and vunerable person and if you have ever watched any of the fly on the wall documentaries about life in an American prison then you too would have a great difficulty coming to any other conclusion IMO.

Under the terms of his incarceration as I understand it, Abu Hamza with spend 23 hours a day in a soundproof box. He will get to walk around in an ajoining cage for I hour a day. He will be denied visits from anyone but his immediate family, who are 6,000 miles away and unlikely to be given visas even if they applied for them and by his council. His council and any other visitors are forbidden to make any public comment as to his treatment or any comments he might make under threat of arrest if they do. In fact the court appointed Septuagenerian council, a cancer survivor to boot, of a person similarly accused and incarcerated has just received a 70 year jail sentence in America for commenting to the press some satements made by her client and remarking as to his health and well being when asked. She will die in prison so I for one do not hold out much hope for any detailed updates on how he is doing in his American prison.



Come on GP. You make the UK seem like a South American country where busloads of people were rounded up, held in a football stadium and then” disappeared”, never to be seen again. Bit over the top!


My comment was to ask the person to whom I addressed the question if they would be happy with such a situation not to suggest that it is the case here in the UK right now. We don't do that to any great scale here in the Uk right now, for those things we go to places like Iraq and Afghanistan to do them, but if we were to leave the jurisdiction
of the ECHR and strike our HR laws fro the statute, who's to say how long it would be til we did do it here again as we have so done often in the past.......All IMHO of course............GP
 Steve_Sandy
Joined: 3/19/2006
Msg: 77
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Abu Hamza al-Masri's health has deteriorated
Posted: 10/14/2012 3:50:01 AM
suspect that if he had not preached to the masses about how evil this country was whilst taking thousands in benefits, then he would not have gotten any publicity and might have been ignored

as it was, he chose maximum publicity and now gets to spend the rest of his life in a maximum secure facility

one of the downsides of blowing up americans and inciting others to try the same is that the authorities take a really dim view on the matter

it is such a shame that his family could not emigrate to america to be near him
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