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 AUTHOR
 dandan7979
Joined: 9/29/2012
Msg: 26
Gift Advice NeededPage 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
As promised, here is a quick update. Thanks again for all the advice; the opinions given here changed my course of action. Although, as explained below, I am sure I still violated all the rules of dating. It worked, however.

Yesterday I sent her a text asking if she wanted to meet at a local establishment that has half of bottles of wine on Tuesdays. We hadn't seen each other in a few days, and the place was near her house so she readily agreed.

When we about half way through our second bottle (yes, I was feeling a little more confident by this point) I said essentially the following (paraphrasing):

I have a confession. As you know, I recently got a little bonus at work for all the extra hours I have been putting in. I really wanted to do 3 things with it. First, I wanted to go to dinner with the prettiest girl I have ever seen (cheesy, I know, but remember the amount of wine consumed by this point); second, I wanted to pick up a few shirts at jos. bank that I had been meaning to get, and third I wanted to get you a gift.

(cont). I thought long and hard about this and sought advice from many people, and haven't purchased it yet. I know you have been working hard lately, and you mentioned you liked spas. So, I was thinking of getting you a spa package so you can get a massage or facial. I was also going to include a companion in the package so you could take your mother or a friend. I haven't done it yet because I was afraid it might come across as too forward.

Her response: Aww, thanks, but you don't have to do that. You are already taking me out to dinner.

Me: I know, but I want to do it. Please do not read anything into it. Consider it a "thank you for being a part of my life gift."

Her: That is really nice, but couldn't you use a massage as well. I know you have never tried one, but you have been working a lot lately, plus you mentioned your back was a little sore after playing golf yesterday. I would love to do it, but will only agree if you come with me.

Me: I would love to try it, as I have never been to a spa. But, I want to make sure it is clear that you can take whomever you want.

Her: I will only accept it if we go together. Let's set it up for Sunday.

Me: Perfect. I'm in.

I know, I probably shouldn't have gone that far, but I figured I would follow my instinct and take a chance. I am glad that I didn't just purchase it, and spoke to her about it first. As a side note, later on in the evening SHE brought up the issue of exclusively dating each other. She said she really likes to take her time when entering a relationship, especially with someone she could see herself dating for a long time. She then asked if I was still dating online. I said I was not, for a variety of reasons. She then said, that while she wasn't ready to formally enter a relationship, "we have an understanding that we are not going to see other people" and that we are building the foundation for a relationship.

She then did something which (I thought) was very sweet. She asked if I would mind if she went on a girls night out to some clubs (we do live in Vegas, where local girls often get free bottle service at clubs if it is a group of girls; once a guy gets thrown in the mix, the free service suddenly disappears). I said of course I don't mind, we are not even in a formal relationship, and even if we were, I still would not mind. I want you to have fun and see your friends, plus you don't owe me anything. She said she understood, but she wanted to re-assure me that she won't be out flirting with other guys. I reiterated it was absolutely fine, and that she should feel free to call me for a ride if she has too much to drink (although she certainly doesn't have to).

All in all, it was a lovely evening. i think progress was made towards an exclusive relationship. i know many will probably think we are moving too quickly, but we (as someone above mentioned) get along famously and really do care for one another.

We'll see what happens!. The dinner date is tomorrow!.

Thanks again for all the advice and kind wishes.
 greenfield101
Joined: 8/5/2012
Msg: 27
Gift Advice Needed
Posted: 10/10/2012 11:17:03 AM
Glad it work out for you. Giving gift without expectation of reward is a reward in itself.
 RedDelPaPa
Joined: 5/21/2011
Msg: 28
view profile
History
Gift Advice Needed
Posted: 10/10/2012 4:41:41 PM
Op, not meaning to be rude, but with over the top arse kissing/bunyon rubbing like that, I'm betting she will never be ready to enter into a formal relationship, with you. When she meets someone she is interested in entering into a relationship with, she'll put a stop to your gift giving. But for now, she'll let you buy her things. Such a sweet gesture of her to rather spend a night out with her friends instead of you. She asked if you minded out of politeness. She planned on going regardless. I'm almost certain all of this will fall on deaf ears. You're chemicals are already boiling over and you're caught, hook, line, and sinker. So again, not trying to be mean, just real. Have fun.
 NOCLOWNING
Joined: 7/21/2010
Msg: 29
Gift Advice Needed
Posted: 10/10/2012 4:57:17 PM
The two of you going together for a massage, is a great idea. As of girls night out, There is nothing wrong with that. If your in a good relationship, no one is the boss. Sounds like things are going good. Wish you the very best!!!!
 dandan7979
Joined: 9/29/2012
Msg: 30
Gift Advice Needed
Posted: 10/10/2012 9:26:26 PM
Reddel, I appreciate the advice, and am not saying I necessarily disagree with it, but sometimes you have to go with
your gut feeling. In a certain sense, I almost feel as if we are in a relationship. Labels mean nothing to me; substance means everything. We have both told each other we are not seeing anyone else; we hang out 3-4 nights a week at least (as of the last 2 weeks); we both work between 60-70 hours a week; I have met her mother twice; her friends invited us to join them on a weekend getaway; everyday, we text each other while at work 2-4 times, and talk on the phone for an hour on nights we don't see each other. It can be labeled whatever, but if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck.......

I understand your point of view about no good deed going unpunished before sex. I was in college; I went through the 20's dating scene. I guess I am not so jaded (as of yet, anyway) to think that people can't mature. I don't believe women hold sex over men as a means to get gifts; I don't believe men do nice things for women solely to get sex. I guess I believe 2 people who really care about each can do nice things for each other, whether it be gifts, intimacy, company, ect., without expecting anything in return. Call me old-fashioned, call me naive, call me a hopeless romantic, but that is how I feel.

I hope I am right.
 RedDelPaPa
Joined: 5/21/2011
Msg: 31
view profile
History
Gift Advice Needed
Posted: 10/10/2012 11:31:12 PM


Reddel, I appreciate the advice, and am not saying I necessarily disagree with it, but sometimes you have to go with
your gut feeling. In a certain sense, I almost feel as if we are in a relationship. Labels mean nothing to me; substance means everything. We have both told each other we are not seeing anyone else; we hang out 3-4 nights a week at least (as of the last 2 weeks); we both work between 60-70 hours a week; I have met her mother twice; her friends invited us to join them on a weekend getaway; everyday, we text each other while at work 2-4 times, and talk on the phone for an hour on nights we don't see each other. It can be labeled whatever, but if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck.......

You can claim it feels like you're already in a relationship all you want. But if she won't say it or admit it, you're not. It's that simple. She believes she is single, and that's what she's telling other men.



I understand your point of view about no good deed going unpunished before sex. I was in college; I went through the 20's dating scene. I guess I am not so jaded (as of yet, anyway) to think that people can't mature.

It's not about maturity level. Gifting women and/or otherwise bending over backwards for them before sex, is seen as weak, unattractive behavior by most women. Because for the most part, it is.



I don't believe men do nice things for women solely to get sex.

You may not. But most women do. So if you act like it, she's going to think that's why. You can count on the fact that most women will see overt, over the top kindness such as yours, to be manipulation.



I guess I believe 2 people who really care about each can do nice things for each other, whether it be gifts, intimacy, company, ect., without expecting anything in return. Call me old-fashioned, call me naive, call me a hopeless romantic, but that is how I feel.

I hope I am right.

As stated before, I'm not trying to be mean, just realistic. I hope things work out for you. Good luck.
 onewayoranuther
Joined: 3/21/2011
Msg: 32
Gift Advice Needed
Posted: 10/11/2012 2:30:39 AM

Op, if have not yet had sex with her, absolutely do not gift her. Before sex, no good deed goes unpunished


what a douche thing to say.....


OP...it is too soon to gift her something so expensive so early on and could cause her to withdraw from you out of a non-commital relationship.

Take her to the nice restaurant as the others suggest and if you are still together during the holidays then give her the spa package...it sounds lovely.
 dandan7979
Joined: 9/29/2012
Msg: 33
Gift Advice Needed
Posted: 10/11/2012 10:01:17 AM
I do appreciate the advice, RedDel (that is why I am posting here, after all) and agree with your basic premise that being too kind too early can come across as either desperation, manipulation or some combination of the two. I guess my point is that, while understanding that basic premise, the dynamic of each relationship is different and, at some point, you have to follow your instincts.

Believe me, during the first few weeks of us seeing each other, I would never text or contact her twice in a row (big believer in putting the ball in her court and waiting to see what happens), giving her space and walking that fine line between showing interest and not coming across as pushy (it helped that, up until about 2 weeks ago we were both going on dates with other people).

In this particular relationship, I noticed a change in the dynamic about 2 weeks ago or so. I understand your point about her not wanting to classify us as a couple, yet, but she looked me in the eyes and told me point blank she is not seeing anyone else, she expects the same of me, and we are at that point of building the foundation for a relationship. I have no reason not to believe her. Also, when you consider the amount of time we spend together, the fact that she introduced me to everyone important in her life (as I have done, at least those that live locally), have been invited out of town by her friends, ect., I think we are past that initial phase where caution must be exerted when demonstrating kindness. Personally, I would like to make that next step and think we are ready (haven't told her that) but she is entitled to her own comfort zone and I must respect that.

Additionally, she has done nice things for me, in her own way. For example, last Sunday she came over, while I was watching football, and cooked me about 4 meals that I can heat up over the week (she is a trained chef) because she knows I have been working long hours and thought it would make my life easier if I could just come home and heat up an already(excellently) prepared meal. I reiterated that I am capable of throwing a piece of chicken on my george foreman grill and putting veggies in the microwave, but she insisted. I was touched by this act of kindness, which she made clear she did not expect anything in return.

I guess, to sum up, when all the factors are considered, I think, in this particular relationship, we are at the where giving nicer gifts is appropriate.

I think we can all agree, though, that dating can be hard and it frequently requires you to act against your instinct (i.e., I really like this person, want to do nice things for them, but if I go to far it will push her away). Love the way the human mind works.

As for the poster who referred to all girls who go to a club with friends as cheaters or sluts, that comment speaks for itself and speaks tremendously about the kind of person you are.

Thanks again to everyone for the thoughtful replies. It is much appreciated.
 RedDelPaPa
Joined: 5/21/2011
Msg: 34
view profile
History
Gift Advice Needed
Posted: 10/11/2012 4:10:17 PM
"Op, if have not yet had sex with her, absolutely do not gift her. Before sex, no good deed goes unpunished"



what a douche thing to say.....

The truth is the truth, is the truth, whether you like/agree with it or not. And I'll bet that most men that have been there, done that, been burned by it, can relate and would agree.
 RedDelPaPa
Joined: 5/21/2011
Msg: 35
view profile
History
Gift Advice Needed
Posted: 10/11/2012 4:29:50 PM
Dandan, based on what you said in your original post, you sounded emotionally out of control. That's all I have to go on. You stated clearly that you two are not in a relationship and that she doesn't want to be in one with you at this point. Now, when a woman really likes a guy, as in butterflies in her stomach when she sees you, she will not be unsure. She will want to be in a relationship with you without any doubt or hesitation. So this woman clearly does not feel this way about you. At best she is sitting on the fence. The behavior you displayed to her would likely be accepted and even welcomed by a woman who is crazy about you. But with a woman on the fence, your behavior is going to do more to drive her off than to pull her in, in my humble and honest opinion. You've got work to do.

To pull in women who are sitting on the fence, you have to peak their interest and curiosity about you and cause them to think they're running out of time and that you are about to get away. Based on your own words, your behavior signaled to her that she can do anything she wants, when ever she wants, and you'll be there waiting. Those are not feelings that you want her to have about you.

She doesn't want you to see other people and I think I can tell you why. I'm sorry to say, but it's actually bad news and rarely results in a happy relationship. She's trying to convince herself into feeling that all important chemistry with you, but she's just not feeling it. This is why she won't say she wants to be your girlfriend, but yet she doesn't want you to escape. It's the only explanation that makes any sense, and everything in life makes sense when the real truth is known.
 missraven1
Joined: 8/12/2011
Msg: 36
Gift Advice Needed
Posted: 10/11/2012 6:12:16 PM


Op, if have not yet had sex with her, absolutely do not gift her. Before sex, no good deed goes unpunished"


what a douche thing to say.....


The truth is the truth, is the truth, whether you like/agree with it or not. And I'll bet that most men that have been there, done that, been burned by it, can relate and would agree.

That's because you're gifting with expectation, when you shouldn't be. It's called self-punishment.
 RedDelPaPa
Joined: 5/21/2011
Msg: 37
view profile
History
Gift Advice Needed
Posted: 10/11/2012 6:44:26 PM


That's because you're gifting with expectation, when you shouldn't be. It's called self-punishment.


Which is the reason for virtually all gifts that early into an interaction with someone. Even if there weren't expectations, most women are still going to read gifting so soon as a manipulation attempt to bed them. And guess what? 99% of the time, they're exactly right. Gifting a woman before sex backfires and repels women more often than not, while there is virtually no risk in not gift giving until after sex. So why do it? Play the odds correctly.
 Keeper_of_Secrets
Joined: 5/16/2012
Msg: 38
Gift Advice Needed
Posted: 10/11/2012 6:49:49 PM
dandan7979.

Do yourself a favor and read the book "5 Love Languages"
Figure out which one is her love language and conduct yourself accordingly.
For all you know, materialistic gifts might not do it for her... but then again they just might.
 Zuglo65
Joined: 4/19/2012
Msg: 39
view profile
History
Gift Advice Needed
Posted: 10/12/2012 4:58:01 AM

Her response: Aww, thanks, but you don't have to do that. You are already taking me out to dinner.



Her: That is really nice, but couldn't you use a massage as well. I know you have never tried one, but you have been working a lot lately, plus you mentioned your back was a little sore after playing golf yesterday. I would love to do it, but will only agree if you come with me.


Her: I will only accept it if we go together. Let's set it up for Sunday

Awwww..This should be copied/pasted tho that "Who pays?" thread.
OP...Don't lose this one.
May I ask how old is she?
 jrzygirl43
Joined: 9/6/2012
Msg: 40
Gift Advice Needed
Posted: 10/12/2012 6:27:41 AM
sounds like you couldn't wait..hope it works out and she's not using you...or being fake.
 dandan7979
Joined: 9/29/2012
Msg: 41
Gift Advice Needed
Posted: 10/12/2012 8:54:40 AM
To the poster who said something to the effect that "I like to talk trash" when I have I said anything that can be remotely considered trash talking? Unlike I lot of threads here, I feel this discussion has been (for the most part) civil and respectful, and I truly appreciate all the opinions set forth (that is one reason why I read/post here; I feel advice given offline, while valuable, could be tainted by people not wanting to hurt your feelings. In an anonymous forum, you are more likely to receive ungarnished opinions, even if harsh. That is what I am looking for).

My whole point, in my later posts, is that relationships are complex and, while there are certain rules that can be good guidelines to follow, it must never be forgotten that each relationship is different and each person is different. When I make a decision, I consider all factors, including advice received when sought, general principles of romantic interactions, as well as instincts. I changed my approach to this situation based largely on the advice given here (I was just going to give her the gift, but reconsidered. I did not intend to mention it to her, but felt that based on the way our evening was going and the interaction between us, it was the right play).

As to the poster who asked her age: She is 30, I just turned 33. We have actually talked significantly about the fact that we are both glad we met each other at this stage in our lives. If we met 5 years ago, I know for a fact I did not have the emotional maturity to pursue someone in a serious manner. Further, I firmly believe something can be learned from every relationship, good or bad. I certainly made mistakes in past relationships, but am glad I made because, in the end, I learned from them and (hopefully) became a better person.

Time will tell if I am right or not. I recognize the concern some have that she doesn't want to label us as " a couple." Honestly, my approach would be vastly different if she hasn't told me, twice now, that she is not seeing other people and expects the same from me. Part of it might be cultural, as she grew up in a different country, has been in America only 5 years, and just recently got her citizenship. She is very traditional, as am I, which is one reason why I think things are going well.

Thanks again for all the advice, and RedDel, I have not thought, for one second, that anything you have said can be construed as mean. I appreciate your candor and value all the thoughtful posts.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 42
Gift Advice Needed
Posted: 10/12/2012 11:25:19 AM
Two words come to mind reading the posts: Sugar Daddy. You, OP, is wining and dining her and picking up the tab each time, wanting to buy her gifts and she isn't resisting these gestures very much-just the customary: "Ahh, you shouldn't have" (But I'll take it anyways). She wants to go the "Platonic Friends First" route until she decides when it's time to move to the next level and officially become boyfriend and girlfriend-if there is a next level with you. In the meantime, she wants you to be exclusive. She's afraid that if you were to date others and start wining and dining other women, you could get into a real relationship without having to go through with the Platonic Friends First route and she would loose out on the freebies. If she really wanted to go the "Friends First' route, she should be picking up the tab at times when you two go out, or go dutch treat. Do you pick up the tab every time you go out with male friends?
 CharminC
Joined: 2/19/2011
Msg: 43
Gift Advice Needed
Posted: 10/12/2012 11:56:29 AM
Her: I will only accept it if we go together. Let's set it up for Sunday.


^^^^
She suggested exactly what I would have suggested.
This is very fair and actually quite considerate of her. She's including you. This is a great idea and you should take her up on it. (If you haven't already)

Regardless of how the relationship goes and how she turns out to be, as long as you two are mutually respectful, communicative and like each others' company, just enjoy your time together.
Life is too short.
 RedDelPaPa
Joined: 5/21/2011
Msg: 44
view profile
History
Gift Advice Needed
Posted: 10/12/2012 1:57:37 PM


Thanks again for all the advice, and RedDel, I have not thought, for one second, that anything you have said can be construed as mean. I appreciate your candor and value all the thoughtful posts

Good deal, Dan. I have put a good amount of effort into your topic. Why? Because I can relate. I've been in your situation a few times in my life. Where I was clearly more interested in a woman that she was in me. And without fail, I'm the one that ended up hurt with pie in my face. It's a dangerous and scary place to be. Be careful.
 missraven1
Joined: 8/12/2011
Msg: 45
Gift Advice Needed
Posted: 10/12/2012 2:07:15 PM

Gifting a woman before sex backfires and repels women more often than not........... So why do it? Play the odds correctly.

Of course it will "backfire" when you do it with the wrong frame of mind. Like the OP seems fully aware of, you never give a gift or do a favour for anyone for anything other than the pleasure you get from the giving in and of itself. Doing so with ulterior motives, to subliminally influence a supposed giftee into giving a guy what he wants, means it doesn't even count as a gift!!.....Since when did giving from the heart turn into playing the odds... Yes, like others, I don't agree that the OP should gift exorbitantly so early in his yet-to-form relationship.



gift (gft)
n.
1. Something that is bestowed voluntarily and without compensation.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/gift
 RedDelPaPa
Joined: 5/21/2011
Msg: 46
view profile
History
Gift Advice Needed
Posted: 10/12/2012 8:28:50 PM


Of course it will "backfire" when you do it with the wrong frame of mind. Like the OP seems fully aware of, you never give a gift or do a favour for anyone for anything other than the pleasure you get from the giving in and of itself. Doing so with ulterior motives, to subliminally influence a supposed giftee into giving a guy what he wants, means it doesn't even count as a gift!!.....Since when did giving from the heart turn into playing the odds... Yes, like others, I don't agree that the OP should gift exorbitantly so early in his yet-to-form relationship.


Good grief, Raven. Let's nit pick this to death. Shall we? You go first. Lol
 dandan7979
Joined: 9/29/2012
Msg: 47
Gift Advice Needed
Posted: 4/11/2013 12:59:16 PM
I know it has been a while, but I thought I would give an update, given that I posted this at the very beginning of my relationship with this girl.

It has now been about 6 months and things are going great. We became "exclusive" over Thanksgiving weekend. My family came out to visit, and our families spent the holiday together. It worked out great, as my family adores her, her family loves me (although they had met me before, as they are local) and our families really liked each other.

In the 6 months we have been dating, this has been by far the best relationship I have ever been on. It is a very matuure relationship with great communication, absolutely no jealously or game playing, and a level of maturity that, quite frankly, I had started to doubt even existed.

One thing we have both discussed is that we are happy we met each other when we did (she is 31, I am 33). We both agree that, had we met earlier, we would not have had the maturity that we now have. We both firmly believe that all the B.S. we went through in the past was worth it.

Anyway, just wanted to provide a "feel good" story to everyone out there. If you keep your head up and stay in the game, good things can happen.

Good luck to everyone.
 turnitover1959
Joined: 2/15/2013
Msg: 48
Gift Advice Needed
Posted: 4/11/2013 1:51:08 PM
Ask her first if she would like to go. That way you aren't really pressuring her. I like to buy nice gifts too but some women are turned off if they think it is too soon. I know there are ladies who like getting gifts but some are not impressed at all. Its more in how you treat them. Good Luck.
 Deepseaceecee
Joined: 1/29/2013
Msg: 49
Gift Advice Needed
Posted: 4/11/2013 5:50:14 PM
Ohh they have had sex, for sure....he wants to be committed and is mad about her and wants to please her but I agree it is too substantial a gift at this stage.
 dmzvisitor
Joined: 3/25/2011
Msg: 50
Gift Advice Needed
Posted: 4/11/2013 6:15:46 PM
Definitely too much too soon. Very thoughtful, though, and it is something to hold onto as an idea when you are futher into the relationship--exclusive and a "special event" type gift. Or, just spend the money on something you want to do and invite her along. Really, a good woman does not need to be treated like a princess (even if you want to treat her that way). A really good woman values your time with her more than anything else.

Or, if you *really* feel the need to be generous, my mailing address is. . . :)
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