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 NDTfan
Joined: 6/5/2012
Msg: 301
About leagues. . .Page 13 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)

^^^ Guy's are LESS picky than women? Lol....yea right. That's why the 20 something female hottie gets bombared with 100's of emails everyday. If people would learn to stay within their "league" (Men AND Woman) that sort of thing wouldn't happen as often.....but too many people have this "hey.....you never know if you don't try mentality". And THAT....in itself......is one of the biggest problems with internet dating. It ruins it for the person getting ridiculous amount of emails from people they would never dream of going out with........it ruins it for the people sending the messages (they complain their messages go unanswered or they get rude responses....well drrrr) and it ruins it for the nice average person because they complain they never get any messages. All because people are under the false impression that there is no such thing as "leagues"


This is exactly right. Much of this could be alleviated by actually reading the profiles and being realistic. The hopeful spammers are ruining it for everyone else.
 Blackwood85
Joined: 5/20/2013
Msg: 302
view profile
History
About leagues. . .
Posted: 7/13/2013 10:10:23 AM
I see both sides, looks are subjective but there are "leagues" with that being said, have confidence. Which is ironic coming from me because I'm not the most confident guy around and I do believe there are females out of my league. But I've been called a "10" by females I've dated and there are females who have approached me and females who have shown interest and I was too dense to not realize it and look at the signs (which is why chicks who should just be upfront with me) if you're interested in a female and she's a "dime" then approach her. Worse that can happen is that she rejects you which can be embarrassing, doesn't help the confidence out and totally suck but you'll get over it and move on. And if she belittles you then you really don't want to date her anyway. Because someone is hot doesn't mean they deserve the right to purposely embarrass someone.
 Space_Weaver
Joined: 11/27/2012
Msg: 303
About leagues. . .
Posted: 7/13/2013 12:45:59 PM
Looks like a 'Battle Royale' between the men and women here.
 SunshineAngel99
Joined: 10/13/2010
Msg: 304
view profile
History
About leagues. . .
Posted: 7/13/2013 6:17:20 PM
There is no such thing as leagues in real life. Once you are an adult there is only one league when it comes to dating, so it comes down to how confident you are with yourself and how happy you are. My dating successes and failures are pretty much similar whether talking about women that are 9's and 10's or women that have average looks. Too many guys assume that women that are 9's and 10's are not approachable or not friendly are totally wrong. Likewise the assumption that an average woman has to accept the advances of a man is also wrong. You simply don't know until you try and you don't know the motivation of a woman as to what she perceives attractive. For example, an average woman told me in a conversation that her preference was for a man that is over six feet tall and completely shaved of body hair, so she had zero interest in me and shot me down quick. But then there was another situation where this women that was smoking hot at the university was all over me because she loved short, hairy men lol. :)

The online world is stratified by leagues because of criteria like height, weight, education, income, looks, etc. But despite all this categorizing in the end when women meet me in real life they are pleasantly surprised because two dimensional pictures only offer a glimpse of what makes a person unique IMVHO.

So, the hardest part is arranging a meeting where a woman wants to meet in real life from a dating site for most men. So, in that context pictures do matter.
 Pinky127
Joined: 1/7/2012
Msg: 305
About leagues. . .
Posted: 7/14/2013 8:22:04 PM
Men are primarily stimulated by "Looks" way more than women in *my* personal opinion and will put up with a hellava lot from a woman so long as she's "hot" but a woman will NOT do the same - no matter how good looking she might think the man is,as soon as he says/does/exhibits something that's a huge turn-off,he's history.

And,that's because "Looks" aren't nearly as important to women as they are to men.
*shrug*
 SunshineAngel99
Joined: 10/13/2010
Msg: 306
view profile
History
About leagues. . .
Posted: 7/14/2013 8:56:08 PM
Looks matter more to women than to men. The difference is women are less likely to admit it while men embrace this openly. Men don't deny that looks do matter but women are slowly coming around to admitting that looks matter just as much if not more. It just a sign of the times that is all. :)
 J_BigHorse
Joined: 7/17/2013
Msg: 307
About leagues. . .
Posted: 7/22/2013 5:32:14 PM
Of course as a man I want a good looking woman even in middle age. That is all the more reason to treat her well when you find one.
You don't know until you give it a shot that the woman you like may like you back.
 lookinfouryoutoo
Joined: 7/31/2012
Msg: 308
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History
About leagues. . .
Posted: 7/23/2013 7:41:13 PM
CautiousLuv: Kudos to you for being honest about leagues. Too often i hear people on here screaming about how looks are all subjective, in the eye of the beholder, or some other nonsense. There are leagues, just as you say.

Would I date someone much less attractive than me? Yes, and I have done so before. In fact, I've been told that the woman I'm seeing now isn't in my league. I couldn't really care less. As long as I find a woman attractive enough to have sex with her, I'd date her. I'm honestly more interested in things like personality, morals, and ethics.
 jpwrnglrwmn
Joined: 10/21/2013
Msg: 309
About leagues. . .
Posted: 1/28/2014 10:15:30 PM
There are no such things as leagues in real life? How about if you were a college educated person with a good job, took care of yourself, financially responsible, etc. . would you date someone with much less in terms of education, body type, and financial standing? I would think not. . You'd want someone who was your equal if not in slightly better circumstances. . .
 JoeBnD
Joined: 3/23/2012
Msg: 310
About leagues. . .
Posted: 1/29/2014 3:15:10 PM

There are no such things as leagues in real life? How about if you were a college educated person with a good job, took care of yourself, financially responsible, etc. . would you date someone with much less in terms of education, body type, and financial standing? I would think not. . You'd want someone who was your equal if not in slightly better circumstances. . .


I believe that is primarily a woman's perspective, and a frankly irritating one at that. When I married my now ex-wife, she only had a high school education and worked in retail (cabinet sales company). I had a BS in electrical engineering and was working at Boeing. With only around 6 years left in our 16.5 year marriage, she finally went to community college and got her RN.

While I have certain priorities, a potential spouse's/SO's education level and income level are secondary in my opinion (but still important). One woman that I dated briefly (before marriage) I was very attracted to, and the fact that she was a chiropractor was just a bonus, not a requirement. Had she been a garbage collector, my attraction to her would have been no different.
 jpwrnglrwmn
Joined: 10/21/2013
Msg: 311
About leagues. . .
Posted: 1/29/2014 10:25:41 PM
Oh, but maybe it was a different time, though. . . In today's dating scene, I would think (not assuming anything here, as I certainly won't speak for anyone, and can't, just offering what I think) people look for a partner in a similar situation. An example would be a college educated woman who was financially responsible, had a good job, came from a upper middle class background dating someone who was here illegally, and worked a custodial job (not that there is anything wrong with that job, just the first part)
I think that too much of a difference can create problems. .maybe one party is used to going to certain places, having a certain lifestyle. The other party might feel that they are expected to keep up with the other party's lifestyle, and might feel uncomfortable and almost resentful they can't. Or they might have to go to extremes, if they could keep up with the lifestyle they weren't used to.
 NDTfan
Joined: 6/5/2012
Msg: 312
About leagues. . .
Posted: 1/31/2014 4:05:06 PM

You'd want someone who was your equal if not in slightly better circumstances. . .


Careful here. A lot of people balk at being told that they might not meet their dream partner's standards. The way they go on and on about it, you wouldn't know but women are just things up for grabs and goes to the first man who calls dibs.

One asked me on these forums (on a deleted thread) on what someone would consider a match. To most people, a match would be someone with whom you have characteristics in common and are more or less equal.

For instance, a man who is 70 pounds overweight with a not all that attractive face... with little to no income....with no assets, no savings, and mere years away from being a senior should probably be looking for a woman with is about 50 to 70 pounds overweight, within 10 years of his age, with little to no income and a not all that attractive face. That is literally what his match would be.

You wouldn't know but I broke into each of their houses and ate their family alive in front of them. They all insisted that THEY couldn't POSSIBLY be attracted to someone just like them... that the hot women they want (who don't want them back) are the shallow ones... and that anyone who tries to tell them that their "dream" is just about as likely as getting a sparkly pink unicorn from Santa for Christmas is the devil incarnate.

*shrug*
 JoeBnD
Joined: 3/23/2012
Msg: 313
About leagues. . .
Posted: 1/31/2014 8:41:28 PM
Well then, NDTfan, shouldn't the same hold true for the women? Big fat ugly women should only end up with big fat ugly men? Yet somehow, both of my sisters who each weigh over 200 pounds ended up with handsome men (first and second husbands), one who I would call stocky but well built, and the others quite thin.

A long time friend of mine who has almost always been slender (it shocked me to see him fat shortly after his divorce; he is once again slender) is engaged to a woman that I would call fat (I don't use terms like BBW). Another long time friend who was always short and fat is still in his long lasting marriage to an attractive, slender woman.

Why don't you stop trying to pigeon hole the entire world according to your misguided beliefs. As hard as you jump up and down about it, the world is not going to conform to your rule.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 314
view profile
History
About leagues. . .
Posted: 1/31/2014 10:02:00 PM
Using the word "match" in the context of dating doesn't mean "exactly the same."
As that matters is that the person likes who you are and they like who you are.
It's okay for a younger woman to date an older man if the younger woman likes older men and the man likes younger women, or vice versa. My uncle has a good job working for the government and he married a girl from another country that works as a librarian. I think compatibility, maturity, and expectations are more important that having the same income or weight.
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 315
view profile
History
About leagues. . .
Posted: 2/4/2014 5:21:15 PM
In most real life situations, I wouldn't sit around worrying about "leagues" the way you see it happen in teen flicks and romantic comedies. There is no reason to assume that someone who seems to be enjoying your company won't date you (unless you know her to already be in a relationship or she's already rejected you or something like that ). At that point, you've already arguably gotten into her "league" just by being able to be in her presence and having such a conversation with her.

Online and complete stranger interactions at a bar or club or something are another story altogether, mostly because of efficiency issues. Time you are wasting writing a message or attempting to buy a drink for someone that it's obvious you have a very minute chance of dating is time you could better be spending trying to get a more likely candidate's attention. In most major metros, there are 10,000+ and maybe even 100,000+ women within a reasonable distance from you on this site, and it is simply impossible to contact every attractive one. By the site's own rules, the most you could email in a month is 1200, by which time another 1200 will have joined and 1200 you never got a chance to contact will have quit and there's still 8000-99,000 to sort through that stayed on the site. And that's if you could actually email 40 women a day (with something other than "what's up?") -- I can't very often do it, and I'm a professional writer with no social life and 7 years of experience on this site. And the site is little to no help as far as weeding them out -- this is no Match, where every profile tells you whether or not you're in that woman's self-described "league."

So, yeah, if you're not somewhat realistic about what league you belong in and what leagues you're sending emails to, you can easily be spinning your wheels around this place. (For those living in the middle of Godknowswhere, Montana who only have 5 people to email, I'm not talking about you guys.)

That said, defining your league is a lot easier said than done. And I agree with most people here that claim that what league you belong in will differ from woman to woman, despite those two women seeming to be in the exact same league. Facial attraction, in particular, is rather inexplicable. It's pretty easy to figure out the odds of a highly educated, professional, athletic, religious woman replying to you if you're an obese unemployed high school drop-out with atheist leanings, but what if you're both highly educated, professional, athletic and religious... but she looks like Bar Refaeli and you look like an average Joe? Obviously all that makes her a 10, but what are you? You're her match in every way but your face seems to be a 5 and her face is a 10, so what does that make you overall -- to her? Realistically? A 5. You can have all the 10 stats in the world, but you will end up overall at the level of your most unattractive trait (if you can't hide it), unless you're a man and one of your "10" traits is millions of dollars and another is you're the lead guitarist of a platinum-selling rock band, then you can be a "1" in facial attractiveness and still overall rate a "10" to the majority of women. And if you're a woman and everything about you is a "1" except your face and body are "10," then you are overall a "10" to the majority of men (well, until they get sick of your 1s and find another 10 with a bunch of 2s). That's just the way it is.

Which brings me to me. What league am I in -- what's my number? I'm educated, professional, athletic, successful, award-winning writer and speaker, well-traveled, with a unique sense of humor, arrest-free, alcohol-and-drug-free, drama-free, no baggage - that's a bunch of 10s to most women. But despite being in a large metro, I've averaged 1 unsolicited profile view per month over the past year. Most men my age and location average 10+ a WEEK. So what's this say about me? Something is making me a "1" overall, heck, I'm being kind to myself -- that's more like "zero" territory. There are literally almost no women in my area that think my profile is worth searching for or clicking on.

Realistically, with those kinds of stats, nearly every woman on this site is out of my league. Yet, you never would have guessed that based on most of my personal stats that most women would rate very highly. MOST. There are, of course, a couple of stats I have that most women would rate a 1, and those override all those 10s. Therefore, I am a 1. Or a zero. Which makes it very difficult for me to use this site efficiently.

And therein lies the fallacy with a lot of the theories in this thread. My "match" on this site is absolutely nothing like me - indeed, she's nearly my polar opposite. The bottom 1% woman (as far as emails received) is much older, much taller, obese, on welfare and chronically unemployed, highly uneducated with mispellings, major grammar issues and bad attitudes in her profile, has a litter of kids, is missing teeth, smokes 2 packs a day, is always drunk and has lost track of her arrest record.

And the fact of the matter is, just by virtue of them being women, that bottom 1% has far more success on this site than I have had, and so it wouldn't be surprising if many said-women were too busy to respond to my email, just like the top 1%-ers. Which means even the bottom 1% of women are out-of-my-league (just not quite as out-of-my-league as the top 1%-ers).

So basically at this point I just email any woman I find attractive whose profile has not outright disqualified me or included information that would suggest she's way not interested ("I own 50 rebel flags!"). For most guys, I do think it's important that you understand what your league is and not waste precious time and effort. But for me, it doesn't really matter. It's all headed in one direction at this point anyway.
 rockin-trucker82
Joined: 1/4/2014
Msg: 316
About leagues. . .
Posted: 2/9/2014 5:36:09 PM

You are only one of hundreds that can find exceptions to rules. Fact is people are attracted to their equal on average. They might step a little below what their usual is, but a "10" isn't dating a "5 or 6" yet alone a "2" on the looks scale anytime soon.


It happens all the time. Usually when they're done with abusive jerks for bf's, or the overly promiscuous, controlling gf, and they decide it's time to grow up, settle down, and actually get somewhere with this.

It takes that change in what you're looking for. When you decide you want a family, you stop caring so much whether or not the girl is a model, or how much the guy can life. That's when you start looking at the things that matter, how responsible they are, what their long-term goals are, what kind of personality they have.

When you date for sex, what you said is completely true. When you date for something meaningful, you tend to be a lot more forgiving on looks, and focus on somthing a little more realistic. Attraction is always going to matter, but it's making that jump from demanding the girl has a perfectly fit body, great chest and ass, to someeone you can actually see yourself starting a family with, who you'd trust with your kids.
 Booky3
Joined: 5/25/2013
Msg: 317
About leagues. . .
Posted: 2/11/2014 11:12:12 PM
In my experience it's not really a matter of men or women THINKING they are all that, but more related to the responses and attention they receive online and in real life. I'm not bragging, but I had to take my pics down or the 30-something red heads would continue bombarding my inbox. I just got tired of telling them they're much too young and that I never date outside my race.
 rockin-trucker82
Joined: 1/4/2014
Msg: 318
About leagues. . .
Posted: 2/12/2014 7:12:47 AM

most men think they are all that.


Same can be said about women. Which goes back to my point, what's so special about you that you deserve that exact guy? Most of us here do have a one-sided look on this. You're not the male equivelent of santa claus, but when you say you look for someone who's looks are the same as yours, does everyone else agree that his looks are the same, or just you?

If everyone thought like that, I see way too many guys with girls they shouldn't be with.
 NDTfan
Joined: 6/5/2012
Msg: 319
About leagues. . .
Posted: 2/23/2014 9:46:53 AM

Why don't you stop trying to pigeon hole the entire world according to your misguided beliefs. As hard as you jump up and down about it, the world is not going to conform to your rule.


Nobody says the world has to conform to me. I'm just pointing out to unrealistic people how unrealistic they are. I"m LAUGHING at you (in general you, 'cause I know just how sensitive you are).

Nobody blinks when someone who dropped out of high school is told that they can't operate on someone. Or someone who barely does their job is told they aren't getting a promotion. However, when you tell some completely average men that there aren't enough Kate Uptons to go around and that he (as Rosie O'Donnell's male minimum wage equivalent) is probably going to die alone before he gets to f*ck a Swedish 6 footer with giant boobs suddenly you're public enemy number one.

Newsflash: While you might think your penis is the most amazing thing in the world, it's going to take a lot more than that to get and retain a woman's interest. If that's all you have going for you, and you have no desire to improve (or as you guys call it, being forced to "conform" and/or pandering), then you are limiting yourself. Women don't care if the random guy next to her is getting laid, and we don't feel like it's our duty to help him. Vaginas are not charities. You don't have the luxury of limiting yourself to a small subset of the female population, and still pretend that the ONLY thing standing in your way are the women themselves..... because you don't. That's on you. Not the women you're "trying" (and I say trying because you're not really trying all that hard, are you) to woo, or the men they're f*cking instead. You, and you alone.

I seem to be attractive to a wide variety of men so this affects me.... I'm sick of targeted by angry, unrealistic men who lash out when turned down... especially since they should have known better. I"m sick of every outing, every dinner, every night out becoming about the men around me and how much they want to f*ck me. I get it. I've been hearing about it daily since I was 12. And so has practically every single woman in the world, at different stages of their life.

And when I have to hear about how shallow, stupid, etc. we are as women because we don't want to date a real life Uncle Fester with no job, borderline retarded intelligence, and who thinks he hit some imaginary yearly romance quota because he grabbed a 50 cent chocolate heart from the bargain bin on the way home on Valentine's day it irritates the sh*t out of me. Oh, you're alive and have a penis, and are therefore entitled to my time and attention?? And if I don't drop everything to give it to you, you get to tell me off? Just like every other "average" entitled f*ck that I run into that feels the exact same way?

F*ck off.

You're all just mad because the woman you want get to choose from more attractive men, and you're not getting any choice at all because YOU decided that nothing less than the stars is good enough. I don't feel sorry for you. And I'm going to keep pointing it out every single time one of these men complain. So you keep chasing that thin, young chick that every other man wants (making her more and more wary and distrustful of men in the meantime since we know that these men aren't actually interested in anything about her but her suitability as a f*ck toy) , and doing absolutely nothing to differentiate yourself from the rest, and whining that SHE'S somehow deficient for choosing men JUST LIKE HER.... and I'll keep laughing at you for it.


(Disclaimer: this is not about all men. I like men. Especially the confident men who actually like woman as people and don't disparage them because they don't drop their drawers at the first sign of testosterone. What I don't like are the inferior, average "nice guy" who secretly despise women but still want something warm and wet to stick it in.... but it can't just be any hole. It's gotta be grade A, supermodel hole. 'Cause he deserves that just for showing up. Ugh.)
 BelleAtlantic
Joined: 11/7/2012
Msg: 320
About leagues. . .
Posted: 2/23/2014 3:14:44 PM

(Disclaimer: this is not about all men. I like men. Especially the confident men who actually like woman as people and don't disparage them because they don't drop their drawers at the first sign of testosterone. What I don't like are the inferior, average "nice guy" who secretly despise women but still want something warm and wet to stick it in.... but it can't just be any hole. It's gotta be grade A, supermodel hole. 'Cause he deserves that just for showing up. Ugh.)


LMAO, I love it

If you're ever in NYC, we're knocking down a drink or two.. It seems we got stories for days.

1. Seems we had a boyfriend in common (the one who couldn't see you in close proximity without wanting to f*ck you! and every time you shaved, he thought you were prepping for sex)

2. The gym creepos

3. Need I say more?
 Princess12524
Joined: 12/23/2013
Msg: 321
About leagues. . .
Posted: 2/24/2014 7:06:26 AM

Nobody blinks when someone who dropped out of high school is told that they can't operate on someone. Or someone who barely does their job is told they aren't getting a promotion. However, when you tell some completely average men that there aren't enough Kate Uptons to go around and that he (as Rosie O'Donnell's male minimum wage equivalent) is probably going to die alone before he gets to f*ck a Swedish 6 footer with giant boobs suddenly you're public enemy number one.

Newsflash: While you might think your penis is the most amazing thing in the world, it's going to take a lot more than that to get and retain a woman's interest. If that's all you have going for you, and you have no desire to improve (or as you guys call it, being forced to "conform" and/or pandering), then you are limiting yourself. Women don't care if the random guy next to her is getting laid, and we don't feel like it's our duty to help him. Vaginas are not charities. You don't have the luxury of limiting yourself to a small subset of the female population, and still pretend that the ONLY thing standing in your way are the women themselves..... because you don't. That's on you. Not the women you're "trying" (and I say trying because you're not really trying all that hard, are you) to woo, or the men they're f*cking instead. You, and you alone.

I seem to be attractive to a wide variety of men so this affects me.... I'm sick of targeted by angry, unrealistic men who lash out when turned down... especially since they should have known better. I"m sick of every outing, every dinner, every night out becoming about the men around me and how much they want to f*ck me. I get it. I've been hearing about it daily since I was 12. And so has practically every single woman in the world, at different stages of their life.

And when I have to hear about how shallow, stupid, etc. we are as women because we don't want to date a real life Uncle Fester with no job, borderline retarded intelligence, and who thinks he hit some imaginary yearly romance quota because he grabbed a 50 cent chocolate heart from the bargain bin on the way home on Valentine's day it irritates the sh*t out of me. Oh, you're alive and have a penis, and are therefore entitled to my time and attention?? And if I don't drop everything to give it to you, you get to tell me off? Just like every other "average" entitled f*ck that I run into that feels the exact same way?

F*ck off.

You're all just mad because the woman you want get to choose from more attractive men, and you're not getting any choice at all because YOU decided that nothing less than the stars is good enough. I don't feel sorry for you. And I'm going to keep pointing it out every single time one of these men complain. So you keep chasing that thin, young chick that every other man wants (making her more and more wary and distrustful of men in the meantime since we know that these men aren't actually interested in anything about her but her suitability as a f*ck toy) , and doing absolutely nothing to differentiate yourself from the rest, and whining that SHE'S somehow deficient for choosing men JUST LIKE HER.... and I'll keep laughing at you for it.


(Disclaimer: this is not about all men. I like men. Especially the confident men who actually like woman as people and don't disparage them because they don't drop their drawers at the first sign of testosterone. What I don't like are the inferior, average "nice guy" who secretly despise women but still want something warm and wet to stick it in.... but it can't just be any hole. It's gotta be grade A, supermodel hole. 'Cause he deserves that just for showing up. Ugh.)

OMFG! I have been in the pof forums for almost 10 years? I have got to say, hands down, this is probably the BEST post I ever read! And it applies to both genders- the self-delusional entitlement men AND WOMEN!
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 322
view profile
History
About leagues. . .
Posted: 2/24/2014 12:02:50 PM

So you keep chasing that thin, young chick that every other man wants (making her more and more wary and distrustful of men in the meantime since we know that these men aren't actually interested in anything about her but her suitability as a f*ck toy)


Some of the things being said here aren't true. First, an average "Uncle Fester" type man approaching an attractive female doesn't indicate he's only looking for a one night stand. Does a fat woman approaching a slim guy mean that she's only interested in making him her personal sex toy? Let's be realistic. If a guy is out of touch about what kind of girl he can get, of course he's going to chase girls that naturally appeal to him. I don't know why this would make women trust men less. I got hit on by a fat lady and it didn't change the way I trust women.


If that's all you have going for you, and you have no desire to improve (or as you guys call it, being forced to "conform" and/or pandering)


Who calls it this? I don't call it conforming or pandering and I doubt anyone with brains would call it that either. The best thing a man can do is get shot down by attractive women so he starts to realize he has things he needs to work on. I can agree that it's stupid for men to put zero effort into self improvement and keep chasing the same women. However, self improvement will enrich every aspect of his life, so who would call it "conforming" or "pandering"?
 Princess12524
Joined: 12/23/2013
Msg: 323
About leagues. . .
Posted: 2/24/2014 3:17:42 PM

First, an average "Uncle Fester" type man approaching an attractive female doesn't indicate he's only looking for a one night stand.


I am going to add my 2 cents & use concepts I do not necessarily like for purposes of "illustration" only...

80% of the men on any given dating site (mainly average to below average in looks etc.) will pursue what they think is the "top" 20% of the women on the site (think 8's, 9's & 10's for arguement's sake) So that 20% gets deluged by men that even their ugly friends wouldn't want to go out with. They get disgusted & feel like they are getting mobbed by papparazzi...regardless of the man's intentions.

The 80% (esp. the Uncle Festers) get pi$$y...some keep trying for the cream of the crop, some give up, some get a reality dose & adjust their sites accordingly for a woman on their level.

The 8's, 9's & 10's of both genders find eachother & leave the other 80% to duke it out.

I apologize if my simplistic labels are offensive, I used them only for purposes of illustrating my point.
 razors_edge55
Joined: 11/25/2013
Msg: 324
view profile
History
About leagues. . .
Posted: 2/24/2014 3:32:54 PM
Yes it's all about looks , then you Wonder why you are not happy . money and looks will only buy enough drugs to make you feel happy ,for a time .
your whole post makes me glad I left the US, And as few people here seem to ever get "a date" it's should not be called a date site ,IMO ,
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
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About leagues. . .
Posted: 2/24/2014 4:46:53 PM
“Nobody blinks when someone who dropped out of high school is told that they can't operate on someone. Or someone who barely does their job is told they aren't getting a promotion.”

These examples are completely quantifiable by scientific means, unlike physical attraction, which is borderline inexplicable. God knows how many threads there are on this site (heck, posts in THIS thread) in which women stated they couldn’t explain why they found this one guy attractive that none of her friends found attractive, or this other guy unattractive that all her friends thought was hot stuff. Pretty much every scientific study on attractive facial features has resulted in an inconclusive mess, hypothesizing about “raised cheekbones” and “prominent brows” and other things no one consciously thinks about or would ever list as “must haves” on their dating profile.

There is really no way to know how physically attractive you are except through experience. You can’t compare yourself to famous people or the people who date famous people. Some people became famous because they are nearly universally attractive, but most famous people became famous for other reasons entirely and then afterwards, simply being famous made them more attractive than other people with similar physical attributes.

“The best thing a man can do is get shot down by attractive women so he starts to realize he has things he needs to work on. I can agree that it's stupid for men to put zero effort into self improvement and keep chasing the same women.”

Despite the fact that they’re all high-fiving one another over NDTfan’s post, they don’t seem to be in agreement about this aspect. The one direct response to my post strongly suggested no amount of “self-improvement” would make some men more romantically desirable to a woman (I am living proof of that truth – nothing I have ever done or accomplished has led to a date; for example, only one woman that’s dated me knew how muscular I was beforehand, yet none of the women I’ve met who did know beforehand would date me, so arguably there was never really a point in all those years of competitive powerlifting if it was to get dates; and no one I’ve ever dated had a college degree or cared that I did, so that “improvement” has contributed none to my dating [important note on that: I never dated in high school or college]). I’m not necessarily saying it’s a mixed message – it’s undoubtedly all dependent on what it is that’s making the men undesirable, and who the woman is that’s declaring those traits to be undesirable. Which again leads to my original point: determining one’s “league” is rarely as simple as many people in this thread are making it out to be.

“In my experience it's not really a matter of men or women THINKING they are all that, but more related to the responses and attention they receive online and in real life.”

This is the post I’ll be slapping on the back instead of NDTfan’s post. There are certainly plenty of deluded people in this world, but if some overweight, Dan Fogler-looking, dimwitted guy with a high school education and no job is getting a 50% response rate from all his supermodel first contacts and his inbox is always blowing up from supermodels contacting him first, then who are we to question his delusion? On the other hand, that’s most likely not the guy who’s making whiny posts, so that’s not who NDTfan is talking about. Yet, he looks and sounds exactly like the guy NDTfan is talking about, despite his success suggesting otherwise. What league’s this guy in?

Quite frankly, if I followed NDTfan’s philosophy here, I would only be messaging tall, obese, high school dropout, welfare mothers, because they are my “equivalent” as the least desirable women. One’s equivalent isn’t the same thing as one’s direct counterpart because what’s desirable/valued in men isn’t necessarily desirable/valued in women. My direct counterpart would be an intelligent, college-educated, short, childless, athletic woman with a good career, but I’ve never dated such a woman – I’ve never even had any legitimate interest from one that I’m aware of. I’ve been on here 7 years and only twice has a woman with a college degree contacted me. See, that woman I just described is essentially the most desirable woman that exists, so most guys want her and she can just pick whichever she wants. But she’s not very likely going to pick her male counterpart because her male counterpart is not the most desirable man that exists – in fact, he is one of the LEAST desirable men that exists. Rather, she’s going with the intelligent, college-educated, tall, childless, athletic man with a good career.

So that’s where that philosophy is all screwed up: it’s not taking into consideration that men and women desire different things from one another. How many voluptuous women want a “voluptuous” man? Yet voluptuous women are up there with athletic women on men’s preference lists. Many of these same men could care less if a beautiful voluptuous woman has a college degree or impressive career, even if they do have those things, yet to college-educated career-oriented women, it’s usually extremely important that their men have college degrees and impressive careers. God knows how many relationships there are in which the man’s interests are football and hunting while the woman prefers ballet and fashion (but wouldn’t have anything to do with a supposedly heterosexual man whose interests were ballet and fashion).

And one’s idealism about this doesn’t matter – statistics will just obliterate your idealism. There is not a lid for every pot under these circumstances. If the man has to be taller than the woman (which is the philosophy of the vast majority of women), what happens when most of the short women choose most of the tall men? Where does this leave the short men and the tall women? Although plenty of women like football, there are still far more male football fans, so what happens for the remaining football-loving males when all the football-loving females choose the football-loving males they want?

This “everybody should date someone similar” philosophy doesn’t just not work out because people are individuals and can do what they want regardless of what society is telling them – it’s also a matter of, statistically, it is impossible given the unequal amounts of certain traits in one gender vs. the other. A large percentage of people are going to have to date people who aren’t their direct counterparts or else a large percentage of people are going to be alone.

Welcome to alone.
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