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Joined: 12/5/2012
Msg: 76
About leagues. . .Page 4 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)

That is why nice guys and whiners are lumped in the same boat, you blame women and the world for your short comings , you dont realize that just because you're online and you think you're a nice guy that all the women will be fighting for your attention and love.

Doesn't work that way, real world or online the truth is, for online dating the better the pics, the more choices you have, lots of average folks on here with fantastic pictures, they either dress well, have nice smiles etc, then its the profile, and the emails you send.

Problem with the average guys is they either say things in their profile that they think women want to hear or the profile is dull, boring yawn fest and they have terrible pics, one guy has a ugly blue shirt hunched over with a strange look over his face that doesn't look appealing to women , he doesnt look friendly.

The other poster Pig is right, it also depends on your location, and I think age is also a factor, the one poster farmer said women are far and few between in London, well I realized that Im in my 40's and he is in his 20's so big difference, but my cousin who is 28 in London dates a lot and he's okay looking , hes 5 '9" average weight but funny as hell.

I think the right answer is somewhere in the middle. While there are things you can do to "market" yourself better to the women on here, there's also the reality of how these sites work. If you thought a girl was attractive, so did hundreds of other people too. When the women basically have a "buffet" of guys lined up in front of her, she's going to start at the closest to perfection first. If you're not amazing and you don't stand out, you're not going to have any real luck on a site like this.

Offline, it's an entirely different world though. Because of how much easier it is to start a conversation with someone in person (for now), you get the chance to actually show the other person who you are, so it doesn't take being being a rich model to get people to at least acknowledge that you exist. So a decent personality can do amazing things.

The problem is that so many people are on here purely out of the fact that they don't approach people in public, it's easier for them to start from behind a computer screen. It's not always caused by something that they can just fix, but it's going to have bad effects on them socially. On a dating site, a lot of the claims about leagues and stuff like that exist, it's just the nature of these sites.
Joined: 11/12/2012
Msg: 77
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/13/2012 3:23:49 PM
There is no league, only compatability and chemistry.

If you are a fat guy wanting to date a thin girl, you are not compatible. Not because of first-glance appearance, but because your life choices which led you both to the points of your life differ completely. So the appearance is an indication, which explains why some fat guys and fit girls are happy together.
Joined: 9/23/2012
Msg: 78
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/14/2012 7:08:37 AM
As much as you want to convince yourself there is no such things as leagues, and people judging, most people do, its that simple, some call it preference, some call it selective etc etc etc.

Most of these average men and women for the most part are hypocrites, Ive seen average guys whine about attractive women turning them down yet they turn down women that are average looking or heavy set, and then use the excuse " oh im not attracted to them"

Ive seen short women under 5 ft 3 only want to date men over 6 ft but wont consider a guy 5 ft 6, even if he has all the qualities she wants but because he is short she passes him by and then complains when a 6ft guy not interested and calls him shallow.

Ive seen fat folks turn down other fat folks and then complain when they get turn down and the excuse they use is? they are not attracted to them , my question why cant you accept that even though you might believe your hot shit and deserve the hot ones that the hot ones might not find you attractive or want to give you a chance?
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 79
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/14/2012 9:55:38 AM
Some of you guys just don’t get it. Most of the guys I’ve dated and had relationships with I’m sure lots of men and women would judge as “average.” They weren’t just “average” TO ME or I wouldn’t have been dating them. But then again I’m interested in what a man thinks and has to say…not just how he LOOKS posing with a flower or a drink in his hand…or how *I* look standing next to him.

Seriously…..get your heads out of your asses. Quit putting so much value on meaningless outer shells and maybe you won’t be intimidated by what you imagine about stupid ratings systems.

Some of YOU guys put “hot” women on pedestals, then get pissy and frustrated when you discover she’s up there…..and NOT interested in dating guys who treat her like a walking mannequin instead of a human being. THEN you imagine she’s not interested in you because SHE’S shallow and won’t give an “average, nice” guy like you a chance. Catch a clue!

I’m dying to know what these whiners think they have to offer a woman. What does SHE get out of decorating your arm and starring in your fantasies? Ever think about that?
Joined: 5/30/2012
Msg: 80
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/14/2012 11:41:52 AM
"Leagues" are alive and well, in any society or culture. .. Some may just label it differently but at the end of the day, it's still those big as well as little details that influence ppl to date & marry the people they date & marry. ... 'course there are always exceptions to the rule but speaking on a very general basis, this is more or less the typical circumstance.

Like what are the chances that Ivanka Trump would've married a homeless, jobless or even factory-working joe-schmoe??

Or Ivanka's dad, the Donald himself marrying some rural kentucky housewife with 5 kids in tow??

Joined: 12/1/2012
Msg: 81
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/14/2012 11:55:55 AM
In the modern day, leagues are more related to self-confidence than anything else, which brings me to the point of "nice guys"

Nice guys are the one that generally brings up " leagues" Answer me this ....ever hear confident men bring up leagues?

I have my own theory on nice guys/average Joe.

Just reading some of the threads and reading about the the effervescent tale of the nice guy , listening to the sordid tales of whoa ,doom and gloom and why is this happening to me ? I’m too nice of a guy blah blah blah asking the age old question “ please ,please help me I don’t understand, I’m suffering watching the confidence men I label as bad guys, jerks, azz holes meet the woman I fear to meet because I’m afraid of rejection because of my looks, income/job status.

The biggest problem I see with some of you " nice guys" is you are hideously insecure, and you blame the rest of the world for your insecurities , the problem isn't the women out there, the problem is staring at you in the mirror.

It's no wonder so many Average/ Nice Guys complain about women being horrible, You say they only go after the Hot, attractive, super successful guy blah blah blah, Self-confident, caring, decent women find "Nice Guys" to be too clingy, whiny and insecure.

What most of you average/nice guy seem to forget or not understand is " beauty is in the eye of the beholder" or on the weekend "beer holder" Instead of whining about this and that, sit down take a deep breath, grab a cup of java and re evaluate what it is you're doing that isn't attracting the person you want to attract.
Joined: 5/30/2012
Msg: 82
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/14/2012 1:05:33 PM

I grew up in one of the most monied towns in England, and as a result knew some very, very rich people as a young man. I promise you they aren't special. Details change, of course, but there's nothing intrinsically different about them! They've got insecurities and problems just like the rest of us.

I'm not saying that they are intrinsically different than the rest of us. Yep, they get sick, they gotta eat & sh*t, they have worries and stress and woes too ... What makes them different from the rest of us is the obvious fact that these people own million dollar jets & mansions and drink thousand-dollar bottle wines. ... and chances that they would meet, mingle, date and marry regular janes & joes are slim, if almost zero.

I don't think it needs to be pointed out that ppl tend to gravitate towards those who are socially, economically, intellectually, culturally, _______ (insert whatever adjective applies here) similar to them. .... Though like I said, there are exceptions to the rule, this is the general nature of the situation.

Joined: 12/5/2012
Msg: 83
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/14/2012 1:28:28 PM

I’m dying to know what these whiners think they have to offer a woman. What does SHE get out of decorating your arm and starring in your fantasies? Ever think about that?

And what does the better guy get from her? Leagues exist, it's a sad truth. You have your standards, you have lowest point you will go. It might not be based on looks, it can be direction in life, goals,interests, attitude... If I can make myself an instant turnoff to you, then you see them too.

The ONLY people who can say leagues don't exist at all are the ones that are willing to give EVERYONE the chance. That means if a 500 lb guy with sweat and food stains all over his shirt, wheels himself over to you on his scooter, you're going to talk to him and get to know what's on the inside before you decide you're not dating him... cuz for all you know, that sweat and food stains are because he ust got done working as a cook and he's actually a clean guy.

Very few people aren't "out of someone's league". We can try to hide it all we want, but every single one of us are probably guilty of asking why someone would ever think they had a chance with US.

If you're going to say taht they don't exist, or you don't believe in them, then put your money where your mouth is... Show us proof that you're actually having conversations with the less attractive people, and the people with crappy jobs / unemployed, people who don't drive, people with kids
Joined: 5/30/2012
Msg: 84
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/14/2012 1:59:38 PM

As I see it, that's not really what we've talking about here. This is a thread where men whinge about not being able to find a woman who wears a size 10 dress.

But I maintain there is nothing to stop Ivana Trump from having a relationship with her gardener, it's just that they're less likely to meet.

Sure there is nothing to stop her but there are a gazillion factors that would likely influence her to take it up with a $100mil net-worth, Oxford-educated, jet-setting, chisel-faced bachelor before she takes it up with Tom the gardener.

But back to your reference about guys who can't get barbie babes .... yes, there is always the "you never know until you try" train of thought .. Speaking of which I know a couple where the guy is this shorter ( just 5'6"?), regular joe type and married to a tall, svelte Dallas cowboy cheerleader type ..... they are an example of the exception to the rule. .. Regardless, I still believe that it was due to the similar social circles & functions that they were engaged in which lead them to meet and eventually marry. .. Again, the socio-economic similarity factors which I pointed out. ...

How, exactly, would we do that?

Besides which, I reject your notion of "less attractive". How does one define that? I am attracted to the people I'm attracted to; the people you find attractive I might want to chain up outside my house to scare off burglars. :-p

Well, let me ask you this -- when you open up the pages of a magazine .. well let's just say Playboy magazine for example, why is there always ONE similar type of female shape & body shown in there? (We could say the same thing of any entertainment/fashion magazine actually )... I mean why not the body of Mary Smith down the block who hasn't set foot on a treadmill in her life, never had plastic surgery and doesn't wear a size 2 dress?? .....

Joined: 12/1/2012
Msg: 85
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/14/2012 2:25:16 PM
Jham, I dont get your Duck dynasty thing... what does that have to do with Leagues?
Joined: 12/5/2012
Msg: 86
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/14/2012 2:47:28 PM

However, it's foolish, arrogant, even, to expect people to reject you because you "know" you won't stand a chance.

It's not that you know you won't stand a chance, it's that there's something about you that made the girl decide "no" before you even opened your mouth. And don't say that you're not guilty of doing the same thing. We all do it, we all have standards to what we will and won't date, and because of that, leagues exist. Unless you'll honestly date a 300 lb post-op transgender, rapist, murder, who keeps 12 year old boys chained up in "her" basement for satanic rituals, and "she" has no teeth and smells like moldy cabbage.

Yeah, leagues don't exist, you'd give that person the same chance as the supermodel, wouldn't you?
Joined: 5/4/2012
Msg: 87
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/14/2012 5:00:06 PM
There is no written rules or laws about leagues. Beautiful women are often very lonely because men don't dare to contact them.
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 88
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/14/2012 5:32:53 PM

If you're going to say taht they don't exist, or you don't believe in them, then put your money where your mouth is... Show us proof that you're actually having conversations with the less attractive people, and the people with crappy jobs / unemployed, people who don't drive, people with kids

Are you talking to me? Just how would I “prove” that, and why should I?

I’ve already said that what *I* consider attractive is not typical. I’m not won over by conventional bullshit, a flashy smile or a flashy car. I want something more exceptional than that.

Besides which, I reject your notion of "less attractive". How does one define that? I am attracted to the people I'm attracted to; the people you find attractive I might want to chain up outside my house to scare off burglars. :-p

Agreed. Apparently that’s a difficult concept for some people to grasp.

The ONLY people who can say leagues don't exist at all are the ones that are willing to give EVERYONE the chance. That means if a 500 lb guy with sweat and food stains all over his shirt, wheels himself over to you on his scooter, you're going to talk to him and get to know what's on the inside before you decide you're not dating him...

What utter bullshit. The only “leagues” that exist are created in the heads of small minded people who need to compartmentalize themselves and other human beings to feel better and justified about their own sorry lives.

And what does the better guy get from her?

In other words, you have nothing to offer a woman. Shocking.

I’m beginning to realize that scrounging up a woman to date is the least of some guys’ problems….maybe learn to crawl before you try to walk, and focus on learning how to be a decent human being first.

Self-confident, caring, decent women find "Nice Guys" to be too clingy, whiny and insecure.

Clingy, whiny, insecure guys are NOT nice. Self confident, caring, decent women know that.

Your anecdote doesn't refute the existence of leagues; whoopdedoo, you're another "I feel compelled to talk about how I'm an exception which doesn't help whatsoever" case. Grand,.

No way you read my whole post. If you had, it could have “helped” you.

Now go back to hiding under your covers and cursing the universe because you weren’t born BradPitt/GeorgeClooney/ChanningTatum/whatever other guy you’re seething with jealousy over today.
Joined: 3/29/2012
Msg: 89
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/14/2012 6:41:55 PM

The whining really gets tiring after a while!
Joined: 12/1/2012
Msg: 90
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/14/2012 7:10:13 PM
Well Copernicus , some women have to act like b1tches because some of the nice guys act like little whiny b1tches and it gets on their last nerve. I'm sure you think those poor nice guys are getting a bum rap, they're getting thrown under the bus poor nice guy boooo hooooo , hang on a sec while I grab my kleenex its next to my Chardonnay wine and platter of cheese

Okay I'm over it, my soul is cleansed for the better now back to reality, the truth is Most nice guys are whiners, hypocrites and dare I say 7 times zones behind their own ass.

Only nice guys believe whole heartily that leagues exist, its makes them feel somewhat better for the rejection they cannot take or accept and therefore assign blame to the female gender when the problem isn't the female gender its THEM.

The faster some of these saps learn that the faster they will be able to meet quality women and enjoy life.
Joined: 11/1/2012
Msg: 91
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/14/2012 7:11:07 PM
You know, I have said repeatedly here that I don't believe in "leagues."
However...I know this poor guy who does social work and makes small money. He shared with me that he
just got the "friend lecture" from his short time supermodel GF. She wants to date other people now
but remain friends with him.
I used to work with women like that so I know a bit about the topic. They generally date doctors and
entertainment attorneys and bigtime businessmen. I tried to explain this to him, and he kept telling me that
he could be a great boyfriend for her. It was so sad.
This guy doesn't have a chance with this woman. She wants to go away every weekend and blow thousands of dollars.
She's out of his league.
Now, if she was just a really good looking girl who happens to be a nurse or teacher or something normal, he might
be able to keep up. But the supermodel isn't going to hang with a low dollar social worker. She will find it too restrictive because her beauty gives her access to guys with serious cash.

Generally I say that you should date anybody and I don't like the idea of leagues. But when the social gap is too large
there are bound to be problems.
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 92
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/14/2012 8:35:53 PM
The key phrase is she likes to go away on weekends and blow thousands of dollars.
That is not a different league.
That is a different lifestyle than he can provide.
It was not her looks that was the problem,
just that she wanted more than he can provide.

That is simply an incompatibility issue.
different agendas
different goals.

If he were to date an equally attractive lady
who has different motivations he would have better luck.
Joined: 12/5/2012
Msg: 93
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/14/2012 9:17:03 PM

Agreed. Apparently that’s a difficult concept for some people to grasp.

You're not dating them because you're not attracted to them. Guess what, you have a "league". Almost every single one of us does it, there's nothing wrong with it, it's just how we're wired. But you can't deny that when you're not dating someone because you're not attracted to them, that it also means they didn't get the date because they weren't attractive enough to you.

Leagues exist. We don't all base them on looks, but we all have our standards. If attractiveness is subjective, the challenge is still there, date someone you're not physically attracted to. Where me and you, and the person you quote are different, is I can admit that I do it. I can admit that I've turned people down based on looks, that I don't give women that aren't attractive enough to me a real chance. If you're in the other thread I've been posting a lot in, you know I don't want anyone who's life is a mess... How does that not translate to "me being out of their league" from my perspective? How many people in this thread are willing to date someone in a wheelchair?

We're all guilty of it, so why not just accept it? Leagues exist, but it's a person to person thing. There's no rule that someone that looks like his face just got smashed by a huge rock can't marry a supermodel, but there's always the chance that the supermodel only dates other models.
Joined: 12/1/2012
Msg: 94
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/15/2012 10:49:00 AM
Captain, I really believe you should stop with incessant whining about guys like you not being able to find a woman, because what you really mean is why guys like you cant find " supermodels" and why "supermodels" dont find you appealing and only date azzholes and Jack Offs , seriously the whining is as old as Betty White's nightgown,You really have been fighting your own shadow all along.

Second , I dont know why you bring up money and Anna Nicole Smith? what does that have to do with Nice guys and Leagues?

Third, as I mentioned before only nice guys and average guys mentions " leagues" , confident stand up men avoids labels and concentrate on the task of meeting quality women, if you want to meet quality women expand your outlook and lose the piss poor attitude and stop chasing women basing your decision on looks.

Now this isn't to say go chase Boo boos and women on the beer scale but perhaps open your eyes and expand your mind, just because a woman isn't a supermodel that doesn't mean she isn't worthy of dating?

Expand your mind grasshopper, Chances are there is someone right now that thinks you are a 8 ,9 or 10 right at this's about finding her, Look... Lois Lane completely ignored Clark Kent and he was the real Superman, The suit and cape are a superficial image...maybe guys like you need to think about what you are attracted to and why?

How many times have we heard this? a happily married couple discussing when they first met , one of the them didn't find the other one appealing but there was something about that person that told them okay give them a chance and then that person grew on them and love flourished and now they are beautiful in their eyes.

If beauty was the hallmark of great relationships none of the Hollywood crowd would ever divorce, the divorce lawyers in Hollywood would be packing up and working for Burger king or a different profession.
Joined: 11/4/2012
Msg: 95
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/15/2012 11:10:38 AM
Leagues are subjective vs universal. The term is loaded. If it means assigning numbers-- I see no value in that or way to do that if I wanted.
I'm as visual as the next person but I've been known to like offbeat looks if the guy is interesting and we can have fun together.
Conversely a guy can look great to me but we just don't gel. In the end I prefer a 24/7 potential companion over hot Saturday nite date.
It would be great to find it together--came close, but in the end, aren't we all going to "average out" in looks? Income, beauty, youthfulness can dry up-- seen it over and over.
What is inside never will, unless your character alters. I like a handsome personality, the exteriors vary.. but the unusually good looking soul shines... always.
However, the average aren't instantly better than the stunning. Sometimes feeling powerless can stunt a person. I've seen that a lot too. It comes down to how developed as a person you are vs extrinsic assets, imo that determines who wants to be your mate, long term.
Joined: 12/1/2012
Msg: 96
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/15/2012 11:31:15 AM

Message 166:
I was not whining or anything. Just responding to a post that's all. I'm say was those two are looking for something different, as a result, they aren't a match. I'm not saying everyone is like this. I was brining up money and anna nicole smith in response to that one post i quoted. Not sure how you missed that? May wanna take up some reading skills there

Well Mr.captain A.D, since I wasn't dropped on my head as a child, and my reading comprehension is pretty good, you have a history of whining about this, that was my point.

Second yes I am aware you were responding to hplazerjet post, so again I ask what does Anna Nicole smith have to do with his post ? is that clearer because I wasn't speaking in tongues.
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 97
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/15/2012 11:41:12 AM

Despite Christian Bale in American Psycho, psycho's generally come from the lower class …..So let's bring it down to reality.

You need to back that statement up, with some “reality.” I don’t believe it for one second.

You're not dating them because you're not attracted to them. Guess what, you have a "league".

No….I have preferences, like everyone else in the universe. I don’t consider having preferences the same thing as categorizing people into “leagues.” You seem to lack a human connection, that I find a bit disturbing.

If guys treat women like the numbers you’ve assigned them or sex dolls you imagine after dark it’s no wonder you have no hope in hell connecting with one.

I’m still waiting for a few guys on here to tell me what you think you have to offer a woman that would make her drop her panties for you.
Joined: 12/5/2012
Msg: 98
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/15/2012 4:42:20 PM
A woman can give an example of how she works to support the opposite side, and it does hold weight in numbers.

But at the same time, that's exactly how the claim on this side works too.

For a universal "league" to exist, there needs to be enough of a common trend that you can predict the outcome. Honestly, in the US, I believe that exists, there's WAY too many people too held up on looks, with a lot of similarities between two people in what they find attractive. It doesn't mean there aren't tons of exceptions made every day, but in our society that demands and gives a definition to beauty, you can look at a guy and safely bet on if he has a shot with the girl, based purely on looks, where she decides no before he even gets a chance to talk to her.

It doesn't mean you shouldn't try anyway, but there are people that the majority of people out there just find unattractive and won't give them the chance.
Joined: 12/1/2012
Msg: 99
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/15/2012 7:09:15 PM
I dont know if I agree with that Copernicus, look... everyone gets turn down, we all get rejected even the beautiful people gets rejected its what you do after that determines your success, that is the difference between the self proclaimed nice guy and the confident guy, the confident guy or stand up guy as we are referred as , knows rejection is a part of the game it happens, we are not everyone cup of tea, we go for what we like and not worry about rejection, self proclaimed nice guy whine about how average or below average their looks are?

They whine about how they cant get the supermodel/hot girl, and calls them shallow, stuck up or b1tches, when in reality the problem isn't the woman its the attitude of the nice guy.

And most of these self proclaimed nice guy are really penises with ears in disguise, A poster on here ( name withheld for obvious reasons) ,anyways he emailed me earlier and accused me of following him in the forums and started calling me names, typical rejoinder from a coward rat fukk, the funny thing is he is known as a whiner with a ugly shirt, by the way nice shirt who ever sold him that shirt definitely has a sense of humor and most people Ive talked to thinks he's a joke.

Guys like him pretend they are nice but in reality they are not and women see right through them and they complain about women being shallow yet they do the same thing.
Joined: 12/5/2012
Msg: 100
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/15/2012 10:29:47 PM
the only real proof you need of leagues existing:

Who would date someone in a wheelchair?
Who would date someone with bad acne?
Who would date someone with down syndrome?

We all have our own requirements of what we'll date, but we're not the only one's that have that requirement. As groups of people have similar requirements, and similar views of what is and isn't attractive, that results in us creating leagues. The more common a trend is, the more likely any random person is going to be "out of that league".

There are exceptions, there are ALWAYS exceptions, but as a society, we tend to put a lot of attention to superficial qualities, and we tend to be very similar... Most guys will say that Jocelyn Wildenstein isn't attractive. But then, you'll have a huge amount of us that'll say Mila Kunis is attractive (tastes on beauty differ, she's just an example that a good amount of guys will agree with).... We'll end up building trends like that, where you can predict that if someone that looks like Jocelyn approached a guy, he'd turn her down before talking to her, but if someone like Mila Kunis did, he'll give her the chance.

Anyone can be an exception, so you should ALWAYS try anyway... But you can't deny that as a society, we create leagues. The day we decided that a model is an example of beauty, and attractiveness, that confidence is an attractive quality and nervousness is a turn off, is the day that we created this monster. It's not saying that everyone follows the same guidelines to what is considered datable, it's that enough do that you can actually make a prediction.

Who can honestly say that it's not true that the timid, nervous guy who doesn't think too many women see him as attractive, and has that self-defeating personality doesn't have a chance with most confident women? A lot of you are the same ones that demand confidence, yet you don't see how widespread that demand is, and how you basically exclude an entire group of men from your potential dates based on that one single trait. Prove me wrong, for every woman that says it takes confidence to date a woman like them, find me one that actually finds being timid as an attractive trait (honestly, not seeing him as someone she can use).

Whether you want to admit to it or not, leagues exist, and we're ALL guilty of causing that way of thinking. If you want to deny it, the ball is in your court. Give someone that thinks they have no shot with you the chance. Take a girl that you think looks manlier than you on a date... If leagues don't exist, then date outside of what would be your league if they did. Don't just say the theory is wrong, actually prove it... Probably none of you will. And that's your proof that there are leagues.
Show ALL Forums  > Dating and Love Advice  > About leagues. . .