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Show ALL Forums  > Dating and Love Advice  > About leagues. . .      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 onecoolM8
Joined: 12/1/2012
Msg: 101
About leagues. . .Page 5 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)
Im sorry Rockstar but you're wrong, you're not wrong because you disagree with me , you're wrong because you are confusing the two.

Leagues has nothing to do aesthetic preference, the questions are kind of silly
Would I date someone in a wheelchair? what does that have to do with leagues?
Would I date someone with bad acne? again what does that have to do with leagues?
and date someone with down syndrome? are you serious with this question?
why not add would I date someone with a bone through her nose running through the jungle chasing Lions , tigers and bears ...oh my.

I had to look up Jocelyn Wildenstein and holy sh1t, that is a woman? yeah most guy would find her unattractive well because she is unattractive, not because of her age is because she looks like the cowardly lions older sister.

Helen Mirren is close to her age and she is very sexy and she is a older woman, is she out of my league? you mention Mila Kunis, well of course you would think she is attractive , but I bet I can find men that says otherwise, I dont think Angelina Jolie is hot, I think Charlize Theron is stunning , but you can find guys that wont agree with me.

I'm not going to date someone that I'm not attracted to , and that has nothing to do with leagues, I'm simply not attracted to them, I would never date that Jocelyn woman, even if I was a blind as Stevie wonder, stoned like Keith Richards and I haven't seen a woman in 10 years and that has nothing to with leagues, she is just plain frightening.
 Fleuron
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 102
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/16/2012 12:38:03 PM

Oh sorry, I didn't realize Shakti and Fleuron are society.


Well, now you know. EYEROLL.


she is unattractive, not because of her age is because she looks like the cowardly lions older sister.


Omg….

Actually, she’s emotionally damaged, obviously, and pitiable.

I don’t know why some guys demand to confuse “leagues” with “preferences.” Do you really think you’re in the same “league” as someone with Down Syndrome? Make sense here.


Most people, men and women alike, don't want to admit they're this way.


Yes, and psycho's generally come from the lower class.


There are exceptions, there are ALWAYS exceptions, but as a society, we tend to put a lot of attention to superficial qualities, and we tend to be very similar...


If YOU “put a lot of attention to superficial qualities,” and you don’t like it, then why don’t you quit it? I don’t do that, and I don’t understand why you insist on imagining what “society” does or doesn’t do, and apparently basing all of your thoughts and your life on it? Are you unable to think for yourself? I don’t mean that unkindly, I’m serious. You seem obsessed with what you perceive everybody else doing, and allowing it to affect your life in dramatic ways.

You are a nice looking guy. You seem intelligent, as well. If you could just flip your thinking and realize that the ONLY person in the world YOU have any control over, is YOU. You can’t change anybody to fit what you think will make your life better. YOU are the only one who can do that, don’t you see?

Even if there was a Universal Law that abolished these supposed “leagues”…that doesn’t mean YOU are gonna get a date. Because people have preferences that don’t necessarily include you. But so what??

Do any of you acknowledge what you have to offer a woman? A sense of humor, compassion, kindness, fun, companionship, anything????? Or is just wearing her around in front of your friends the ultimate goal here?


I'm not going to date someone that I'm not attracted to , and that has nothing to do with leagues


AGREED. Thank you for making sense. And for being
 Alegarza
Joined: 8/24/2012
Msg: 103
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/17/2012 4:00:48 PM
Humm who holds the power?? easy.. the person that cares less... and that is the ugly truth.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 104
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/17/2012 4:33:02 PM

I'm seeing a woman who according to you would never give me the time of day.

THANK GOD YOU'RE RIGHT. I'd have found it harder if I'd have had competition.


You da' man!!
 rockstar_nj1182
Joined: 12/5/2012
Msg: 105
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/17/2012 4:54:27 PM


As for wheelchairs and your other extreme examples, what does it prove? Yes we ALL have limitations in who we'll date.. that isn't evidence of 'leagues', it's called preferences, standards of attraction, compatibility, etc..

Why do you feel you need to appeal to extremes in order to prove your point that leagues exist? Lol.. I agreed with you. They exist, in the mind of those who believe they do. That's not enough for you? You need to project your own thought limitations out upon the rest of humanity? How ridiculous.


For one person, yes, that's what it means. When 99% of people out there share that same exact limit / standard / preference / compatibility, that's a league. It's not 1 person not dating someone because he's in a wheelchair, it's hundreds not dating him purely because he's in a wheelchair.

Deny it up and down all you want... If you looked like a man, almost no man would actually give you the chance, and you KNOW that's true.

The only ones denying leagues are the one's that think it's so bad that people might actually have similiarities in what they consider attractive, or the complete failures of reading comprehension that automatically assume "A girl you like wouldn't date you so you're whining".

Leagues exist, we all use them. Again, find me one woman who thinks being timid is attractive... So many of you swear by the man has to be confident or you want nothing to do with him... When so many of you stick to that, how can someone who isn't confident going "out of his league" to message someone that IS confident?

Step back and REALLY look at the world around you. Forget every single detail about how you personally think, and just watch how other people work, you might be VERY surprised at how terrible of a society we are out there.
 Hamilton12345
Joined: 3/29/2012
Msg: 106
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/17/2012 5:37:41 PM
^^^^The voice of sanity speaks!!!!!!!
 JohnAGalt
Joined: 9/23/2012
Msg: 107
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/17/2012 8:57:14 PM
yep I agree the pig has it going on
 Drawesome32
Joined: 6/26/2012
Msg: 108
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/19/2012 12:22:56 AM
havent read through all of the posts here, but heres my 2 cents on it all.

sure, there are leagues. however, some people are lucky in that theyre in a higher league so it doesnt bother them much. perhaps they dont even notice. heres an example. young thin girl with no kids and a good job gets approached by a fat guy who lives with his parents. will she go out with him? probably not. when the fat guy gets turned down, and he most likely will, his friends will laugh and say shes out of his league. the fat guy knows it, but the pretty girl might just be saying she has "preferences" and so be in denial. the pretty girl also has little trouble getting just about any guy she sets her sights on, so as far as shes concerned, there are no leagues.

with all that said, i dont really care about leagues. if i find someone interesting in some way, ill most likely let her know. it doesnt always work out in my favor, but id rather make an attempt at things in life and fail then sit around and bemoan my fate.

steph: judging by your pics, id say that you have the same problem i have, youre just not very photogenic. you remind me of the type of girl i would meet from the net and be pleasantly surprised by her actual appearance as opposed to what i saw in her pics. one thing i would keep in mind is that most of the guys i know only really date women who are about as physically fit as they are. so if youre messaging guys who are in great shape, theyre probably talking to women who are in great shape. not sure what your situation is, but thought id mention it.
 RandomFish123
Joined: 5/30/2012
Msg: 109
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/19/2012 6:08:21 AM
.. My conclusion to this is -- If you have deal-breakers, you have types/leagues/standards or whatever else you may or may not call it. ...... I would not date someone who is heavily obese, an alcoholic, addictive gambler, smoker, drug user, has 10 kids with 10 baby-mommas, or _____ (insert any other unappealing adjective here) ... Although I may not want to classify these factors as being a "type" or "league" .... at the end of the day, they are still deal-breakers -- ie., qualities that make a potential mate undesirable in my eyes.

Everyone has them or else we would be dating/bedding/marrying the first person we ran into as soon as we walked out of the house.

However if we are solely talking about phyisical attraction/ looks alone as OP stated:





I am wondering, is it too simplistic to assume because someone is physically more attractive than yourself, that it is simply pointless to try starting a conversation, even if you both share similar interests? I find myself reading through a profile of someone, but then deciding not to send a message because they seem too attractive for someone like me. In real life situations, I find myself doing this as well. My question is, is this keeping from potentially good partners?


Then I would agree that looks can be subjective per case basis .. However I do not dismiss the fact that society and culture has this cookie cutter image of what "beauty" and "aesthetics" should be like either ....... Interestingly enough, I remember watching a BBC documentary about this very subject --- and a test was done with babies, to see if they could perceive "beauty" as society/culture on the whole does ...... The results were that the babies responded more favorably to faces which society/culture deemed as "beautiful" as well ....... I don't know but I think that made some very interesting food for thought ....

This doesn't mean though that if you see someone who you think is "too good-looking" you allow their looks to intimidate you into not attempting to get to know them .... As its been pointed out, looks make up an important component of the mating game ... But remember we humans are complex creatures and there are so many more factors involved as well which can add or deflect a person's attractiveness.... Confidence and character, to name a few.



 browneyesboo
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 110
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/19/2012 7:43:55 AM
Im not a supermodel, but im not overweight and I dont look like a man so maybe you whiners need to open your minds a bit more and start widening your expectations.


The poster was talking about herself and your response farmer was define overweight...so clearly you were
talking about her.

Not sure what weight has to do with leagues anyways...weight is a preference.
Looks are a preference too.

and PS to Steph.
I think the poster who suggested new pictures was right. You look fine, but maybe
a nice picture by yourself taken with better lighting?
 browneyesboo
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 111
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/20/2012 10:22:42 AM

She could have been talking about anyone and I'd have still asked the question - you like the other women who can't take the debate resort to twisting. Typical, but I'm used to it by now, scrape the barrel for every flame dig you


Jaysus, talk about twisting. ahahahahahahaha! She clearly said she was not overweight, she was talking about her
experiences...it couldn't have been more clear unless she was standing in front of you having a conversation.

But carry on.
 browneyesboo
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 112
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/20/2012 11:44:44 AM
Yes, you're absolutely right.
It is my age.
When I intentionally insult someone and I get called on it, I either admit to
knowing exactly what I was doing or I apologize.
I don't pretend I didn't do it and blame it on someone else "twisting" my words.

If you're going to go throught life saying whatever the heck you want and expecting
no consequences, at least own it.
 Hamilton12345
Joined: 3/29/2012
Msg: 113
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/20/2012 6:25:59 PM

When I intentionally insult someone and I get called on it, I either admit to
knowing exactly what I was doing or I apologize.
I don't pretend I didn't do it and blame it on someone else "twisting" my words.

If you're going to go throught life saying whatever the heck you want and expecting
no consequences, at least own it.



My god you lot are so naive and stubborn. Ah well think what you like see what I care. Like most things if you want to get the wrong impression from everything, be like that.


I read it exactly the same way she did and I am sure most people did. Whether you meant it or not, it came across as very insulting to one particular person.

Perhaps we have just figured out why you are having such problem meeting women, your poor communication skills.
JMO
 platypus_man
Joined: 8/29/2007
Msg: 114
view profile
History
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/20/2012 10:37:35 PM
Physical attractiveness is only one part of the equation; it's often what you 'bring to the table' as a whole that determines who is willing to date you. OP, if you're still here, surely you've noticed old fat bald rich guys dating extremely beautiful women. So physical attractiveness isn't the only thing a guy needs going for him. Same with athletes; while they're famous or popular, they have a huge female contingent to draw from. After they're out of the sport and working as an insurance salesman, unless they're rich or attractive, that same guy will have far fewer women to choose from. As far as height, most women want a guy who's taller than she is, so if you want to play the odds, try to 'target' women who are shorter than you are. Unless you're a dwarf or midget, there are usually plenty of women out there that fit the bill. The league you date in is entirely determined by your decisions to be what the market (single women) is interested in, and remember, you can't always get the person you want. Be open to more than one possibility, there are lots lovely eligible women out there!
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 115
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/21/2012 7:51:42 AM

Beautiful women are often very lonely because men don't dare to contact them.


If a beautiful women is lonely it's usually because she's got her standards incredibly high, she doesn't give guys the time of day or she's just a ****.

Men are also taught (mostly from women) that if you approach them you'd better be an alpha male with lots going for you or you're gonna face a 99.9% rejection rate because she's out of your league. It's taught to us practically from birth that beautiful females are the untouchables for most normal men.



There's something to this so I will respond. Men that adhere to this thinking deserve to be alone as well.

Back when I was in the other paid site, I noticed that there were a lot of the same super hot women there. What I also noticed, was that after a friday night date I would go home, and go to the site, and they were online, so the idea of this hot but alone came to mind. Part of that said to me that they were so damn picky that they always ended up alone, another that men may not reach out to them, or a combination of both.

So I started to approach them. It was rather hard, because the usually have the ultimate cliche for a profile. They are dense with stupidity. So I would read through it. If something stood out, I would contact, if it didn't, I moved on. What I was able to find was the crack in the profile that elicited a response, and then out of that, plan a date. And it worked.
One caveat in my part, there are several personality types that I just can't stand so if they were flight attendants, real estate agents, or played tennis competitively, usually we would not get along, so I would not ask any with those characteristics.
I went out with several women like this. What worked was that rather than tread them like eye candy, I would try to keep them intellectually challenged. If you treat them like a prima dona, they respond like a prima dona. But in the end, it was not about looks, but what's inside.

I mention all this because someone forgot to teach me when I was growing up that you should not approach these type of women. I am not great looking nor have women wanting to sleep with me, like I've seen happen with some other guys. I have to work at it. And I have gotten a ton of rejection, but also I've had plenty of good results. My current gf, when she decks out is one of these women, even though she hates the whole idea.
 onecoolM8
Joined: 12/1/2012
Msg: 116
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/21/2012 8:52:24 AM

If a beautiful women is lonely it's usually because she's got her standards incredibly high, she doesn't give guys the time of day or she's just a ****.

Men are also taught (mostly from women) that if you approach them you'd better be an alpha male with lots going for you or you're gonna face a 99.9% rejection rate because she's out of your league. It's taught to us practically from birth that beautiful females are the untouchables for most normal men.

So the lonely women cliche needs to be put back in the locker with believing in Santa, the easter bunny and God..
This hit me like being hit by a split finger fastball from Nolan Ryan in his prime, sorry pal but that is your perception maybe from experience but im betting you are the typical nice guy.
 onecoolM8
Joined: 12/1/2012
Msg: 117
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/21/2012 11:22:28 AM
Ever consider Women dont want to be objectified and being hit on because of their looks? I have a younger sister who is very attractive, she gets hit on all the time , she sometimes stays home because the quality of men that hits on her or her friends.

Guys either hit on them with silly come on lines, or stares and looks like a idiot because they are tongue tied, and dont forget the wannabe players with their " hey Hun" "hey you are hot" blah blah blah.

You are stereo typing beautiful women, not all beautiful women are shallow, sure there are some with low self esteem or a piss poor attitude and looks matter to them, if a guy cant pick out women like that, well that shows you that all he cares about is looks too.

You and I have different views on what is beautiful, any woman can be drop dead gorgeous, but if they have a ugly soul, or no personality or they are neurotic/wing nut etc so what and who cares, tell me what sane confident man wants a gorgeous woman that is a whack job? but guys that care about looks will . How many guys that has gorgeous girlfriends/wives and cheats with some disgusting looking thing that is a 9 on the beer scale? explain that one?

What I call beautiful is a woman that has a beautiful personality, sure they may or may not be physically attractive but once you know them their beauty shines and they blossom into something beautiful , beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
 Fleuron
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 118
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/21/2012 11:33:28 AM

Typically the beautiful women who sit home alone aren't there for lack of opportunity, it's choice. Women decide who they want to be with…


Of course women decide who we want to be with. Is there something wrong with any woman having a choice and making it?

Everyone has choices…the problem is that some people don’t like the choices available to them.


It's taught to us practically from birth that beautiful females are the untouchables for most normal men.

So the lonely women cliche needs to be put back in the locker with believing in Santa, the easter bunny and God..


Sounds to me like you just contradicted yourself. I would imagine being “untouchable” could make anybody lonely, for whatever reason, eh?
 rockstar_nj1182
Joined: 12/5/2012
Msg: 119
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/21/2012 4:54:34 PM
Women tend to be a little more lenient than guys on looks. Where women are typically brutal is if the guy has any insecurities. If you're not completely confident 100% of the time, a lot of them will just forget you exist.

We're all looking for something impossible, especially on these sites. Guys are looking for a gorgeous woman with a personality to fit with it, not realizing there's probably a reason that the insanely hot girl is single... And women, when they actually know what they want, a lot of them want a solid career, his own house, basically, a guy who will never have to struggle a day in his life.

The people who get dates are the ones who understand that perfection doesn't exist. For the ones who don't, don't message them, cuz they're way out of your league.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 120
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/21/2012 5:12:55 PM
The people who get dates are the ones who understand that perfection doesn't exist. For the ones who don't, don't message them, cuz they're way out of your league.


Alas. Great statement.

I am going to say something that most women here are going to hate, but it has helped many guys debunk the hot girl mentality and has allowed them to date women that are in their minds above their league. When you meet, one of these hotties, find her physical flaws very quickly. Make a mental note. Let her know without words, that you know, but that it's okay. When they call you on it. Let's say she doesn't have an ass, or has smaller breast, or she is aware of her curves, wink at her and tell her that she has stubby finger, or her thumbs are weird, or big or small.

In other words spare her the knowledge of her flaw, she knows it very well, now she knows that you know it. Yet you tell her of another flaw that is inconsequential. Or even invent one, "You're too tall." Yet she is 5' 2". She'll make a small issue of it, but mainly she will laugh with you. And do not complement her physically. Do not call her hot, sexy, beautiful. In fact, maybe say that she can be kind of cute. Not even a sure full cute, but "kind of." It usually debunks her prima dona style or that shell she has as a response to "You are so hot" statement that every single horny man around her tells her, while you can careless or give a s hi t about it. After that, she will start talking like a real human being.

Now women here are going to say, I hate games. And my response is, everything in the first dates IS a game. It's the game of attraction. Of not selling yourself too hard, and creating enough push and pull, that she wants your a ss. And really, what do you answer when a woman asks a guy "do this jeans make me look fat?" "No, the jeans are fine, it's you that is fat." Nahh, wouldn't fly.
 rockstar_nj1182
Joined: 12/5/2012
Msg: 121
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/21/2012 5:38:04 PM
Yeah, I wouldn't point out flaws, but definitely take the approach that you're not lucky that you get the chance to talk to her. You have to not see her as any better than you are. Don't point out her flaws, but don't spend the entire night telling her how great she looks or how awesome she is.

If you give someone an inflated ego, their last memory of you is one that you're not good enough for them, and that causes no second date. By treating her as imperfect as you are, she'll actually start to see you as perfect as she thinks she is.

People tend to focus more on what's wrong with them than what's good about themselves, by taking both completely out of the equation and treating her like she's you, but a girl, you actualy end up creating an illusion that you're way better than you really are. Because she see's a great image of herself, but you have no flaws, and to you she's not insanely hot, she's just a girl, so in her head, you must be as amazing as she is. Psychology is really entertaining sometimes.

Ofc, she has to actually be attracted you for any of that to actually work.
 Fleuron
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 122
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/21/2012 5:39:48 PM

Oh, and it doesn't work on girls or women that have self confidence...


Agreed. Smart, confident, mature women don’t appreciate ridiculous attempted mindfvcks, and she might just mindfvck ya back. Better be sure you’re more emotionally resilient than she is before you try something so asinine.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 123
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/21/2012 6:10:32 PM
Oh, and it doesn't work on girls or women that have self confidence...


Really? It seemed to have worked quite well on women that were self confident. Then again you are right. It has been my experience that most very attractive women deep inside lack confidence. Even a good friend of mine, she is hot. I always thought that she was very confident. She makes a ton of money in finance, is head of a department, and blah, blah. We are getting drunk together (as friends, we don't cross that line), and she tells me how deep inside she feels insecure.

Actually the smarter the woman, the better it works. What you fail to see is that I am giving away the formula and psychology here, but what the woman sees is a man that is not objectifying her, that is not all over her, that is challenging her intellectually, is willing to be playful and almost comes across as if he does not want her sexually. Is not putting her in her so called "league" pedestal. And doesn't give a s hi t. Consequently, she also has to do some work and be discovered as a person, not the bimbo, hot prima dona, not the piece of a ss, that she knows that many men see her as. So in her intelligent, intellectual mind, she finds such man, refreshing, insightful, with confidence, fun, challenging and she wants to know more about him. Even though he is not Robert Redford nor gives a sh it that he is not.

You may not respond to it. That is fine. But a lot of women do. And I am talking women that are lawyers, in Sales, professionals, that have kids, or are handling a career with other things. And it's not about being a player. The player's objective is to f vck and dump. What I am talking about is about removing the pedestal from the hot woman. Tabula raza, then start as equal human beings, and no drooling for the guy. Just building a relationship.


Agreed. Smart, confident, mature women don’t appreciate ridiculous attempted mindfvcks, and she might just mindfvck ya back. Better be sure you’re more emotionally resilient than she is before you try something so asinine.



I knew this would piss off the female forumnites. Say what you may. But it works. Over and over, and over again. And no bimbos. Smart women. Oh, and the mindf vck back is usually welcomed. Only then it's about the third date, and you are really having such an intense conversation that about 4:30 in the morning, you realize you have not even kisses yet.
 Fleuron
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 124
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/22/2012 11:40:58 AM

Really? It seemed to have worked quite well on women that were self confident. Then again you are right. It has been my experience that most very attractive women deep inside lack confidence. Even a good friend of mine, she is hot. I always thought that she was very confident. She makes a ton of money in finance, is head of a department, and blah, blah. We are getting drunk together (as friends, we don't cross that line), and she tells me how deep inside she feels insecure.


Oh come on. You seem more aware than most guys on here, and you don’t know that EVERYbody is insecure about something. A drunken confession doesn’t mean she’s not confident and self assured. Everybody has dark 3 am moments.


Actually the smarter the woman, the better it works. What you fail to see is that I am giving away the formula and psychology here, but what the woman sees is a man that is not objectifying her….


What YOU fail to see is that a smart woman CAN recognize this. Do you think you invented this idea? You also fail to see that a man may pretend not to give a shit with a woman, but it’s really the woman who doesn’t give a shit whether a particular man approaches her or not.

And if HE didn’t give a shit….he probably wouldn’t be spending time with her or talking to her at all, would he?


I knew this would piss off the female forumnites. Say what you may. But it works. Over and over, and over again. And no bimbos. Smart women. Oh, and the mindf vck back is usually welcomed. Only then it's about the third date, and you are really having such an intense conversation that about 4:30 in the morning, you realize you have not even kisses yet.


I like your story.

I’m not pissed off. I simply suggested that if a man plans on mind fvcking women, he’d better be prepared to get mind fvcked back. If YOU think you can handle a mind fvcking, that’s one thing…but you’re advising other men to try it….men who are insecure and timid with women in the first place….simply talking to a woman is intimidating; attempting complex bullshit gaming systems is potentially emotional suicide for some of these guys.

If that kind of thing works for you, and you’ve convinced yourself that these women are “smart,” good for you. Maybe what you should really be teaching these guys is how to mindfvck themselves.
 SC67
Joined: 6/21/2009
Msg: 125
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/22/2012 4:26:02 PM

Men are also taught (mostly from women) that if you approach them you'd better be an alpha male with lots going for you or you're gonna face a 99.9% rejection rate because she's out of your league. It's taught to us practically from birth that beautiful females are the untouchables for most normal men.

ok...haha...pretty self-defeating, but I guess that depends on what you consider "beautiful" & what the object of your desire considers "normal men"


I knew this would piss off the female forumnites. Say what you may. But it works. Over and over, and over again. And no bimbos. Smart women.

Then I must be a bimbo 'cause I really don't have time to listen to some dude tell me what's wrong with me. I'm well aware I'm not perfect & don't really value the opinion of someone I don't know. Anyone who tries PUA game on me is making a serious tactical error that may sting for quite some time.
Show ALL Forums  > Dating and Love Advice  > About leagues. . .