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Show ALL Forums  > Dating and Love Advice  > About leagues. . .      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 151
About leagues. . .Page 7 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)
I can admit that I don't like smokers or women with bad hygiene, but those are choices not absolutes. Turning someone down because they're not tall enough or aren't the alpha males isn't logical.

Logical? We're talking about attraction, not logic. You would prefer women would date you even if they are not attracted to you? That doesn't make any sense!

Actually, SC67, I disagree with both of you -- it IS logical. :) In fact, someone would logically take a reversible bad habit over a non-reversible "absolute". So I question what that first poster said -- no, it IS logical. It is logical relative to normalized/baseline human desires that a 5'8" woman is not going to have attraction to a guy who's 5'1"... or a guy who's built and has the facial structure/jaw-line of a 10 year old, at middle-age. Beauty/attraction is not 100% random from person to person. It has a basic baseline of human nature. As another poster said -- look around, right? Folks here and there deviate from it, and a small minority by a lot sometimes, sure -- but that's just statistics. But to not be attracted to a smoker to one who doesn't smoke, or a guy who's significantly shorter than she, is a logical -- or shall I say normalized, expected -- attraction trait.

My version of leagues is not based on physical attractiveness. It is a 3 tier league of men who love women, those who like/tolerate women, and men who by their words and actions hate women. The man I'm currently seeing is not tall, rich, powerful, gorgeous, or educated.

Cynthia, looks do matter though and they Can be very important, let's not kid ourselves. They may matter less to you vs the rest of the average population... but they at least do matter to everyone. And even without being gorgeous, looks can reflect personality and natural looks can visually convey aspects of their personality, by stereotype or by some accuracy. And I believe that you are more centered on the aspects of their persona and how they project themselves... and that's awesome to be more in tune to that. But it's not shallow to have looks be a deal breaker, as it is for everyone. It's natural.

And leagues have to deal with how many options one has, basically. Him getting a lot of attention from women makes him of a higher league than the avg Joe next to him -- regardless as to whether you were into him or not. All "leagues" is about, is one's ballpark-range of DMV (dating market value) on the "eBay" of the dating scene. It doesn't mean one can't get someone out of their league -- it happens. There's common reasons as to how that can be feasible... although it's widely overshadowed by those who are in basically the same 'league' -- and that's no coincidence, and totally dismisses any hokey thoughts that beauty is 100% random by the people. :)
 Fleuron
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 152
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/25/2012 6:52:20 PM
Me, on a different thread:
Truly confident people don’t rely on others to provide them with self esteem


You:
Never said I was confident, I have your kind to thank!


That’s right. I completely control you. You’re a puppet on my strings. And I didn’t even have to use my vagina.

You’re welcome.

Oh, and why did you pull one of my comments from another thread?


…..like the Buffalo Bills going through Coaches and quarterbacks.


Ouch! Also…turnovers.
 rockstar_nj1182
Joined: 12/5/2012
Msg: 153
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/25/2012 7:29:39 PM
onecoolM8, why does everything have to be to those two extremes? Why doesn't the supermodel want to date a guy who goes to the gym, eats healthy, is attractive...?

Or, why not address the ones we see every day? Why is it that fat people (not overweight, FAT) seem to only be able to get other fat people? How come a guy who looks like Mr Ed never seems to be with a girl that can be a model?

If you actually go out into the world, there's no denying that this is just how it works out. It doesn't mean a 500 lb guy can't date a supermodel, but most likely, she thinks she's way too hot for him.
 onecoolM8
Joined: 12/1/2012
Msg: 154
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/25/2012 7:47:05 PM
rockstar, its not extreme, its reality, first thing supermodels dont go to public gyms, they have their own trainers, staff etc so how would they get the opportunity to meet a fat guy, let alone the average guy?

Lets address the everyday person, I take it you go to a gym, do you see many fat guys dating women that are hot with 2% body fat? I haven't.

Have I seen average men with hot women, many times ... the difference is these average guys have the personality and the charm to go with it.

Why do fat people people date other fat people? I have no freakin clue, but they say water rises and seeks its own level, people date who they are comfortable with, attraction is a personal thing.


It doesn't mean a 500 lb guy can't date a supermodel, but most likely, she thinks she's way too hot for him.
I dont understand your thinking on this one? a 500 lb man dating a supermodel? not happening unless he is super wealthy and powerful perhaps but a 500 lb man working for Wally World minimum wage isnt meeting supermodels.

Im not sure what Mr. Ed is so you might have to explain that one to me.
 LG2727
Joined: 1/20/2010
Msg: 155
view profile
History
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/25/2012 9:12:13 PM
Octane rush...there is no such thing as a gold digging man?? Then who were those 2 men I was married too that used me for my money. They quit thier jobs once they lied to me and told me they loved me and married me. And who are all these loser men who think I am put on this earth to pay thier way through life? There are more golddigging men then women out there! Someone needs to join the real world! And what is this crap about men not caring what a woman looks like?? Are you people kidding me?! Just look at tv, do you ever see an ugly fat dumpy sloppy woman with an attractive skinny man? No never! But I could name quite a few shows where it is the opposite, women always have to settle in the looks dept! The very least you men can do is have a job!
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 156
About leagues. . .
Posted: 12/26/2012 9:34:50 AM
who were those two men? lazy opportunists. they took the easy opportunities, not the challenging ones that would make a victory sweet...unless...they bragged to their friends that they could get a hotty to pay their way in life :)

golddigging isn't a gender issue, there are people who love to trade something they have (their body, a declaration of love, the security they have) for something they need (security they don't want to work for, sex they can't get otherwise if they don't "buy" it, or the love of someone who they think wouldn't love their insecure or immature ways or just them as a person). and not just in the bedroom, either, they do it outside, too "buying" what they can't earn with their personality or hard work. the question is, how do they find their victims? is it a shared belief in trading one thing for another, to get thru life? could that be a common attraction, a red flag that isn't seen because its shared and thus can't be seen as a red flag?
 pagedone
Joined: 3/28/2013
Msg: 157
About leagues. . .
Posted: 4/3/2013 10:33:23 PM
Not a truer word said.
 Deepseaceecee
Joined: 1/29/2013
Msg: 158
About leagues. . .
Posted: 4/3/2013 10:41:53 PM
You are being realistic is all. If you have loads of money you can go for the more attractive woman and self confidence is always a winner which comes from knowing you have something to offer. You can try for women out of your league but if they reject you, you are not missing out on opportunities after all. Men typically aim higher than their own level of attractiveness and this always amuses me. Women particularly look for more than just physical but naturally prefer the fitter, the more even featured and symmetrical as do men, but personality and financial viability plus being interested in us,is also important.
 Deepseaceecee
Joined: 1/29/2013
Msg: 159
About leagues. . .
Posted: 4/3/2013 10:44:19 PM
Of cours a 500lb guy wont date a supermodel, that is just an extreme and stupid comment, apart from the physical logistics,. it is just gross. She may do him sexual favours to get ahead in the industry perhaps but will be thinking of Brad Pitt all the while lol! BTW not every man finds the stick insect super model desirable either.
 Bluegold007
Joined: 4/22/2013
Msg: 160
About leagues. . .
Posted: 4/28/2013 4:47:59 PM
Yea, this site blows. Belive me i work out too and i've lost a lot of weight but i still get nothing. Well i used to have a pic posted but decided to take it down cause i given up. This is a pick and choose candy store for women.


Women particularly look for more than just physical but naturally prefer the fitter,

False! Totally untrue. Women are the same as men, having good enough looks is a big requirment in order to have a shot
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 161
view profile
History
About leagues. . .
Posted: 4/28/2013 8:10:42 PM
I've never thought in terms of what league I or she is in or not in. If in a conversation where the following phrases would be employed, I might acknowledge that somebody is "better than me", depending on what we're talking about...but that also, just because of who I am, "nobody anywhere is too good for me". I also always like to find some way of figuring out if a woman would change who she "goes for" because of something about herself changing which would put her in a "higher league", or if she goes for someone only because that's what she thinks is in her league. I'd rather have a woman who uses other criteria and motivations and, like me, doesn't think about things like what league she's in.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 162
About leagues. . .
Posted: 4/29/2013 11:40:21 AM
Farmer_Giles,

To be honest though, it's a dating website. All the nice looking men and women are already dating otherwise they wouldn't be on here, me included.

Well, first, not everyone in the Forums (that less than 1% of users) are single or 100% single. Second, it's not 1999 or even 2005. A dating website is an extra dating outlet -- not an act of desperation because one can't ever find a date. It, like the bar, is an active watering hole for serial daters. :)

Deepseadeedee,

If you have loads of money you can go for the more attractive woman and self confidence is always a winner which comes from knowing you have something to offer.

That and looks, I agree.

You can try for women out of your league but if they reject you, you are not missing out on opportunities after all.

I don't entirely agree with that, but sort of. The problem is that some people can be lost in ego-protection, thinking that they're just as good of a catch (looks & status) as anyone else on the planet, while wasting their time aiming for those above one's league too much, cutting into opportunities with those only arguably a bit outside their league or within their league. And also, starting to date someone out of their league and trying to put up with the common "catch" that goes along with it that they could have seen but ignored because they were so hot and/or financed -- emotional issues, pathological liar, etc.

Men typically aim higher than their own level of attractiveness and this always amuses me.

I would disagree. Oh, they'll do that, sure -- but that's not what defines them. Women are just as guilty of accepting guys out of their league, too -- although looks sometimes plays less of a role (financial & popularity status may play greater).

Women particularly look for more than just physical but naturally prefer the fitter, the more even featured and symmetrical as do men, but personality and financial viability plus being interested in us,is also important.

Women are into looks moreso than they typically say they are. But no, not as much as guys, but like guys -- they have a certain line the other has to be at, as far as looks is concerned. I think other factors come more into play to make up for looks like status, and IF she's in position to get to know his personality, his personality.

In the end, you're not going to typically find a 9/10 woman going after 6/10 guys who has no more money or popularity than the guys who are a 7,8,9 or 10 out of the bunch. You're typically going to find said attractive, outgoing, social 9/10 woman going after an 8,9,10 guy. The once in a while guy who's known to have a lot of $ and/or popularity, a 7 will many times be under full consideration, too.
 Bluegold007
Joined: 4/22/2013
Msg: 163
About leagues. . .
Posted: 4/30/2013 7:53:03 AM

If anything I think most men aim at their level or actually less than their level as naturally it's assumed that any nice looking girl knows she's good looking and is therefore only going to concentrate on a greek god of a man

Hey man, online dating is rough, especially if your a guy. I just think theres people in general that tend to aim high. But you can't say every single woman is like that. I work with this really cute one, shes married to someone who is 16 years older than her. He's deffently not a "greek god" if anything he's very,very skinny. And to put the icing on the cake, he ain't rich! They just "get" each other.

Now, i know many average guys that have done well off of here. (Not saying ur average, i just can't tell if a guy is good looking or not) Anyway, they wrote out a fun, exciting profile. The readers were laughing. And women are attracted to humor. I think you should go to profile review or get with a female friend and have her re-write a profile content that comes off as attractive.

I used to think the same as you,my friend. But it isn't all about looks. I have another friend who isn't rich, he's short and very skinny, well he's married to a very,very cute woman and they have a child.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 164
About leagues. . .
Posted: 4/30/2013 11:40:22 AM

If anything I think most men aim at their level or actually less than their level as naturally it's assumed that any nice looking girl knows she's good looking and is therefore only going to concentrate on a greek god of a man.


Total bull. The type of stuff a self defeatist, scared of their own shadow and coming up with nothing but excuses type of crap some guys say.

I would say aim high. Aim as high as you can possibly get away with. Why? Because MOST attractive women have fvcked the greek god guy and found out that most of the time he sucks. Not only that, he cheats all the time. Why? Because he can get away with it and women throw themselves at him.

This creates a huge land of opportunity for the average, witty, on-your-face type of guy. These are guys that failed to read the book on leagues and said, "fvck off, I will aim at whatever I want." And if we fail. WE FAIL. We get up again and use it as a learning experience for the next approach. So eventually we go out with all those super gorgeous women. Along the way, we also realize that some of those super gorgeous women have more issues, insecurities and are total idiots, thus we also become more demanding and instead of arm candy we want a smart, attractive women, that are good in bed, are a great companions and want relationships. What a concept.

And that is not defined by how much money the guy has, or the car he drives, or that he is super great looking, no. That is define by attitude and a willingness to try and continue trying because we do not freak in the face of failure, we expect it to happen and keep going until we get exactly what we want.

As long as you believe that you CANNOT, you will not. It's that simple.
 DragonBits
Joined: 1/6/2012
Msg: 165
About leagues. . .
Posted: 4/30/2013 11:07:32 PM

I would say aim high. Aim as high as you can possibly get away with. Why? Because MOST attractive women have fvcked the greek god guy and found out that most of the time he sucks. Not only that, he cheats all the time. Why? Because he can get away with it and women throw themselves at him.


Now this is really true. This is why I always maintain a short man is a much better mate for a very attractive women, we aren't going to cheat on them because we don't get many opportunities to cheat.
 Bluegold007
Joined: 4/22/2013
Msg: 166
About leagues. . .
Posted: 5/1/2013 6:41:00 AM

This is why I always maintain a short man is a much better mate for a very attractive women, we aren't going to cheat on them because we don't get many opportunities to cheat.

Not sure if i agree with that. I'm a guy but guys do cheat for different reasons, not saying its right but things happen
 DragonBits
Joined: 1/6/2012
Msg: 167
About leagues. . .
Posted: 5/1/2013 9:23:15 AM

This is why I always maintain a short man is a much better mate for a very attractive women, we aren't going to cheat on them because we don't get many opportunities to cheat.

Not sure if i agree with that. I'm a guy but guys do cheat for different reasons, not saying its right but things happen


My observation has nothing to do with what men want, it has everything to do with what women want. And for a short term hookup without the likelyhood of a LTR, a woman will always chose the more attractive man, and that is the taller, athletically built man. Sure, if the taller guy is 350 lbs, he isn't going to attract positive attention in a single bar, or on PoF.
 tooborednow
Joined: 1/13/2013
Msg: 168
About leagues. . .
Posted: 5/1/2013 1:16:40 PM
Crap the forums are dying...

Because MOST attractive women have fvcked the greek god guy and found out that most of the time he sucks.

But if they can fvck the greek god guy, then they know they can get a greek god guy (especially if before the greek guy sucks, he gave her all the "player" crap about wanting more than to just ejaculate his suckiness all over her in order to make her even more pliable, basically giving her an idealized "perfect" relationship until suck town comes up).
If they can get one, or more, sucky greek god guy, then why couldn't they simply start an internet profile and shop for a greek god guy that happens to not have those "he sucks" qualities?

Also, if your assertion is correct, if "MOST" attractive women are going to fvck a greek god guy is there any guarantee they already have fvcked the greek god guy? Why couldn't they be shopping for their greek god guy to fvck so they learn that he sucks? You just happen to hit on them or email them while they're trying to get what you think "MOST" women have done?


This creates a huge land of opportunity for the average, witty, on-your-face type of guy. These are guys that failed to read the book on leagues and said, "fvck off, I will aim at whatever I want."

At best this perspective simply points to women that settle.
Yes. There is great opportunity to find women that will settle on you because they can no longer get greek god guys or are tired of trying to find the greek god guys that don't have the "suck" qualities so are burned out, depressed, or need an ego boost.


thus we also become more demanding and instead of arm candy we want a smart, attractive women, that are good in bed, are a great companions and want relationships.

This is about as childishly simplistic as you can get.
Smart? How smart? Einstein? Terri Schiavo? Somewhere in between? Maybe a range, or "league," in which their intelligence which helps shape their personality is compatible with yours? Or do you want them to exhibit their intelligence as a specific means to teach you something, to help you?
Then isn't there a cut off where they can't, which would also make it a "league?"

Attractive? How attractive? Who measures? Most attractive Eskimo? Most attractive down's syndrome girl? Or are there certain characteristics, maybe a range, or "league" in which you find them attractive, that you are comfortable with, where you aren't just insecure and dumbfounded, or struggling to find some specific aspect of attraction, or are actually kind of turned on?

Good in bed? What's good? They know who else to call (man and/or woman) to handle everything they aren't proficient at? They are the premier expert at strapon on furry fun according to the saudi arabians? Or is there maybe a range, or "league" in which their sexual attitude and proclivities are specifically compatible with your own?

Great companions? How so? Who measures? Some people find their dog to be their best companion. Does she act like a puppy? Is there maybe a personality range, or "league" in which she falls that makes her companionship highly compatible to your individual personality and companionship needs?

Want relationship? What kind of relationship? The instant kind? If she says she wants the same kind of relationship you do in as vague and subjective of terms as used here ("I'm looking for someone smart, funny, attractive, great companionship, good in bed, and a relationship too! We're a perfect match!") but she wants an immediate commitment to it, before you even meet for the first time off POF, you'd be all "yay! I found my woman and it aint in no league! I need to go get a ring!"
Or is there maybe a range of behavior, a "league," in which you would behave most comfortably together, progress naturally with them more so than other people?


As long as you believe that you CANNOT, you will not. It's that simple.

And just because you believe that you can doesn't mean you will. It's not that simple.
Ask the maharishi's to watch their yogic flying.
You set your own league by who you can get into a healthy relationship with.
It's based on more than simplistic variables but on your actual personality and associations with women.
Such as "MOST attractive women have fvcked the greek god guy" is actually a peg that helps to define your league.
Your ideas about "MOST" women affects how you see women and subsequently how you behave towards them individually and which ones you will find attractive and will seriously pursue.
If it is a realistic "league" then with these women a healthy relationship will organically grow.
If it doesn't happen, then it's simple delusion or you are looking to use women to prove a point about your identity more than be in a healthy relationship.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 169
About leagues. . .
Posted: 5/1/2013 3:20:51 PM

Smart? How smart? Einstein? Terri Schiavo? Somewhere in between? Maybe a range, or "league," in which their intelligence which helps shape their personality is compatible with yours? Or do you want them to exhibit their intelligence as a specific means to teach you something, to help you?
Then isn't there a cut off where they can't, which would also make it a "league?"

Attractive? How attractive? Who measures? Most attractive Eskimo? Most attractive down's syndrome girl?


This is the most ridiculous rebuttal to what I wrote that I have ever heard.

I have dated my whole life VERY attractive women. They were attractive to me. But just as a measure of how attractive they were, they are the type of women you know entered a room by simply looking at the room and the guys turning. They dated me, because they wanted to be with me. They also had mentioned about how they had issues trusting those type of greek god types. They were tired of dealing with their shit, because since they tend to be rather narcisistic, they do not learn how to turn women on in bed.

So who defines attractive? Smart? Or any other attribute? For me, I DO, my standard is the only prerogative. I do not give a sh it if other find them attractive or not.

What most guys fail to understand in this argument is that you think women choose men under the same guidelines that men do. They do not. Men tend to be driven 100 percent by physical attributes, while women, even though the want a guy that is somehow in shape, they want more than anything someone that has confidence, even above looks.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 170
view profile
History
About leagues. . .
Posted: 5/1/2013 3:52:25 PM
Hehe! Uh-oh...you weren't saying anything I necessarily would agree or disagree with, and I'm not following the particular discussion that your post is part of. But...when you said this part, I have to frown and say "what?" -

What most guys fail to understand in this argument is that you think women choose men under the same guidelines that men do. They do not. Men tend to be driven 100 percent by physical attributes, while women, even though the want a guy that is somehow in shape, they want more than anything someone that has confidence, even above looks.

Why must we keep trying to speak for all men or all women? I think that there can be many similarities between how a man and a woman goes about this. And I don't think that we should keep perpetuating the idea that "most men" are "driven 100 percent by physical attributes". And as is constantly mentioned, it very much depends on the person.
 Fleuron
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 171
About leagues. . .
Posted: 5/1/2013 5:12:21 PM
Not only are the forums dying and most assuredly in a coma, they’re full of BS… I mean more than usual.

DragonBits:
Now this is really true. This is why I always maintain a short man is a much better mate for a very attractive women, we aren't going to cheat on them because we don't get many opportunities to cheat.


Soooo……….if a woman offered, off you’d go?

I suggest infidelity is more dependent upon character than height. That is absolutely ridiculous! ….despite your follow up post, which is suddenly about “hook ups” rather than cheating.

Oh, and why is a shorter man a “much better mate for a very attractive woman,” and not all women? Or don’t "unattractive" women deserve a faithful man?

OutMind:
Because MOST attractive women have fvcked the greek god guy


Really, that statement is so offensive. You don’t know who has “fvcked” who, and insinuating that any group of women are sluts just because you say so really pisses me off.

handles_it:
Also, if your assertion is correct, if "MOST" attractive women are going to fvck a greek god guy is there any guarantee they already have fvcked the greek god guy? Why couldn't they be shopping for their greek god guy to fvck so they learn that he sucks? You just happen to hit on them or email them while they're trying to get what you think "MOST" women have done?


Jeez, don’t listen to a man tell you about women and “fvcking.” Half of it is bravado the other half wishful thinking.

OutMind:
…while women, even though the want a guy that is somehow in shape, they want more than anything someone that has confidence, even above looks.


Oh please. Quit trying to speak for “women.” You just look foolish.

OT: Instead of trying to label, compartmentalize and generalize people, how about approaching each person as a unique individual and treat him/her with respect, the same as you would like extended to you.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 172
About leagues. . .
Posted: 5/1/2013 5:12:30 PM

And I don't think that we should keep perpetuating the idea that "most men" are "driven 100 percent by physical attributes". And as is constantly mentioned, it very much depends on the person.


Point well taken. Bad wording in my part. There are no absolutes. For men and for women.

And I do not speak for all men. I can only speak for my experience and what I have seen around. There are as many ways of thinking as there are people. There are people that are positive and there are people that are eternally negative. There are people whose argument always starts with a But... The possibilities are cancelled in their mind even before there's a chance for an alternative way. Many of these people have developed a conditioned identity driven by pain avoidance. They do not want to get hurt, so they do not try. The ultimate failure is not to try and get hurt, or suffer tremendous pain, but to simply stop trying.

Now, if you accept the pain as a path to growth, you accept that if you are shy, to open up, you are going to feel embarrassed plenty of times. If you want to approach a particular type of women, you are going to get rejected, even ridiculed (pain), and you accept it as part of the process, laugh about it, and keep trying. If you see this as a path, what you find is freedom, comfort in your own skin and an attitude to whatever you want to achieve.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 173
About leagues. . .
Posted: 5/1/2013 9:07:28 PM

Really, that statement is so offensive. You don’t know who has “fvcked” who, and insinuating that any group of women are sluts just because you say so really pisses me off.


You never fvcked an attractive guy? Orr. You don't feel that you are attractive enough to bring in that type of guy?

Why are you labeling women that want to fvck a guy a slut? I find that much more insulting than anything I have said. Come on! If a woman wants to fvck a guy why is she a slut? Your words, not mine. I personally think she has every right to fvck whoever she wants without those labels, just like guys do.

So if I pissed you off. YOu piss me off. For labeling women. For saying that women that like sex are sluts.
 lostcausein
Joined: 3/16/2013
Msg: 174
About leagues. . .
Posted: 5/2/2013 3:19:11 PM
I'd rather be short than ugly


I don't think you understand something vital here :

Most women consider short men.....UGLY

It doesn't matter how handsome his face might be.

U G L Y

Edit - good for you, there's a BIG problem with short men here , we call them LEPERS
 DragonBits
Joined: 1/6/2012
Msg: 175
About leagues. . .
Posted: 5/2/2013 3:52:32 PM

DragonBits: Now this is really true. This is why I always maintain a short man is a much better mate for a very attractive women, we aren't going to cheat on them because we don't get many opportunities to cheat.



fleuron: Soooo……….if a woman offered, off you’d go?


Of course not, I have too much to lose.


fleuron:
Oh, and why is a shorter man a “much better mate for a very attractive woman,” and not all women?


Because I am a short guy and I like attractive women.
Show ALL Forums  > Dating and Love Advice  > About leagues. . .