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 AUTHOR
 justlookingvt
Joined: 5/8/2010
Msg: 222
About leagues. . .Page 9 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)





First, not all guys carpet-bomb.


Fortunately, that's true but, the noticeably large enough minority who does makes it very clear that looks are their main concern. It is also notable that women don't do it because the incentive to do it, which is looks, is not a valid reason for them to indulge in that kind of behavior.



Second, guys do approaching, offline and online, although it's more open for women to reach out online.


Women commonly initiate contact both online and irl, they just use a different method, one that is more subtle, not to mention generally classier (no "wasup babe" coming from them)



Third, women don't have to reach out much -- their inboxes get pretty filled up with prospects


Not quite. Their inbox isn't filled with "prospects", it is often filled with "creative" "wasup babe" refuse and in some cases pictures of what those guys consider is their main "asset" (sadly, it might very well be).



You're equating folks who write others hastily as just being into looks.


You are correct. Haste indicates no interest in the person past their looks.



It's just that when you are firing off form emails out to people -- you're just looking at the basics -- looks + possibly categorical criteria like age, kids, smoking, etc. -- and will deal with the rest later -- whether you're picky about the other stuff or not.


Count me out of the "you" in that sentence. What you are describing there is the behavior of a guy that is making a lame attempting at getting laid. As you pointed out, the attempt is mostly, if not entirely, based on looks.



And for a relationship, to a guy, her personality is huge too.


I would hope so. However, it seems a bit peculiar that a lot of guys would have a "three date, get laid" rule if the woman's personality was such a huge concern. It seems to indicate that personality is taking a backseat to other "concerns".



Point is -- looks is not just a mere "attribute". It's huge for both.


Point is, it is generally much more of a concern for guys than it is for girls. Also, leave the hookups out of the picture. That's a different case than looking for a relationship and, even in that case, while looks may play a greater role in a woman's decision that it would otherwise, the guy's personality is still as important, if not more than his looks.



to say that women aren't picky about looks and will date a sub-par looking guy because he isn't a jerk


That has never been the point. The point is that a guy with "sub-par" looks as you put it, can be a very interesting, and attractive, guy to a woman depending on his personality. That is what is a less common occurrence for guys than it is for girls. That is the point. That point has already been exemplified by various female posters in this thread and we are yet to have a single example from a guy, though it is applicable to guys too, it just is not as common.



Guys will be more open for a one-night hookup. And when just-a-hookup is on one's mind, guy or girl, yes, it's pretty much just looks.


Even in the case of a hookup, the guy's looks aren't likely to be a girl's main consideration. Her safety and also, the amount of fun she may get from the hookup, depend a lot more on the guy's personality than on his looks and, women are generally very aware of that.

Either way, in a majority of cases, a guy's looks won't be a woman's primary concern. That said, good looks certainly won't hurt.

 grizzelda
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 223
view profile
History
About leagues. . .
Posted: 6/14/2013 11:43:11 AM

It's just that when you are firing off form emails out to people -- you're just looking at the basics -- looks + possibly categorical criteria like age, kids, smoking, etc. -- and will deal with the rest later -- whether you're picky about the other stuff or not


While CR is trying to argue with JustLooking, his postings continue to support Justlooking's position, IMO this paragraph illustrates exactly the vast majority of men and how they go about approaching women. I bet every woman on here has heard the comment "why is a good looking woman like you single?", or "I cant believe a good looking woman like you isnt taken", both of these statement are based on the fact that her looks are the more valued aspect of who she is as a person, because I have never heard a man say to a woman, "why is a nice or good lady like you single", but this is the most often line heard by men from women, to me this is a very clear indication of what is valuable to each sex and what drives them to approach a possible mate.
 Paderic
Joined: 2/23/2010
Msg: 224
About leagues. . .
Posted: 6/14/2013 1:29:54 PM
Anyone who actually believes that looks don't matter to women should try an experiment I conducted a few years ago. Create two identical male profiles, except put pictures of an average looking guy on one and pictures of a good looking guy on the other. One profile will receive zero initial contact from women, the other will be inundated with emails. Guess which one gets all the attention?
 Fleuron
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 225
About leagues. . .
Posted: 6/14/2013 5:29:49 PM
^^^^^ That’s simply not true. They don’t have to be Greek (although I am personally partial to those dark swarthy sexy good looks ). Any nationality God will do really, as long as he is HAWT.

Omg. I am truly shocked and appalled to hear that more women contacted a handsome man over an ugly one. I mean who doesn’t want an ugly man? That was such a clever scheme. I would say that clinches it. So! Now that’s taken care of….
What’s next? Proving the earth is round?
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 226
About leagues. . .
Posted: 6/15/2013 12:09:03 AM

Fortunately, that's true but, the noticeably large enough minority who does makes it very clear that looks are their main concern.

That's not the point though. So what? The point is what IS, not what makes you feel a certain way. Again, an ONLINE FREE SITE is *not* a measuring stick to how guys "are". That's insane. Nor is it a measuring stick on how girls "are". Your assertion is that guys are just into looks and women aren't much at all -- which is a total farce. Men are from Earth. Women are from Earth. There is no Mars, there is no Venus. Notably when it comes to strangers, for both genders, Looks, along with other deal breakers (kids, smoking, being married, etc) rules the day. The "complaint" women have about guys about looks is just the same on the opposite side when it comes to whining.

Women commonly initiate contact both online and irl, they just use a different method, one that is more subtle, not to mention generally classier (no "wasup babe" coming from them)

No, it's not close to the same. Women don't initiate contact IRL remotely close to men -- not even remotely remotely close -- and online, there's more elbow room definitely because of the "virtual" distance, but there is still a HUGE gap. Women get their inboxes filled -- it's not even a contest -- when compared to guys. Guys approach, girls hesitate at best (online) -- and IRL, it's very seldom. It's a fact of nature, not even arguable.

Not quite. Their inbox isn't filled with "prospects", it is often filled with "creative" "wasup babe" refuse and in some cases pictures of what those guys consider is their main "asset" (sadly, it might very well be).

Oh, there's plenty of those -- don't get me wrong, but that's not all of them. But a mere "hey what's up" is good for many women (maybe not you), but yes, a "hey babe you kickin" isn't for many either. And attractive women will get more than their fare share of emails to initiate things. Again, you can complain about bad game by guys, but that's not the point. Bad game doesn't equal only-for-looks.

Count me out of the "you" in that sentence. What you are describing there is the behavior of a guy that is making a lame attempting at getting laid.

No, I won't cut out the "you" -- it's the context -- much the same as "if you do this ...", etc. Second, no, it's not. You obviously need to drop the feminazi handbook. Guys who run hastily actually aren't necessarily saying "Hey babe, let's just do it".

Haste indicates no interest in the person past their looks.

Wrong -- I did not say that nor imply that. Haste is just dealing with the basic get-the-foot-in-the-door that EVERYONE shares -- LOOKS + a few other important (deal-breaking) particulars through a search filter that one may have. I'm not advocating haste really -- just saying, no -- it doesn't mean that's all they're about in a woman. That's just bitter talk from past experiences.

Point is, it is generally much more of a concern for guys than it is for girls.

Actually it's HUGE for both. Girls will probably be more sensitive to other deal-breakers, pound for pound compared to guys. But looks? Sorry -- it's HUGE for women. And again, that doesn't mean raw "hot hot hot". That's not all what looks are about.

The point is that a guy with "sub-par" looks as you put it, can be a very interesting, and attractive, guy to a woman depending on his personality.

No, that's not how I put it. A guy with sub-par looks is NOT attractive. At merely sub-par he's not explicitly unattractive, but he's not attractive.

That is what is a less common occurrence for guys than it is for girls.

A guy's popularity/fame/status/finance is going to wheel more, yes. It doesn't mean his looks don't mean anything. A gal who wants a sugar-daddy may not care about looks, sure -- but that doesn't define women. Neither do frat-boys who just want to pork and be done with it.

People who just want to bang and that's it -- sure, looks is pretty much the only thing -- for either gender. You DEFINE guys as just wanting that, thus, that's all guys are into. Totally false. That is an anti-man, totally askew & inaccurate view. You can point to forums of guys whining about not being that way, just as much as girls whining about guys being jerks -- but don't even go by that. Look IRL.

For instance: I am more open to a fling than a buddy of mine. He's more wholesome. But he's more picky about looks than I am. Just because I'm willing to "fool around" more readily under particular circumstances, doesn't mean I'm more into looks when it comes to a woman to ACTUALLY DATE. And also -- those who are very hasty about just "hooking up" -- are going to be LESS PICKY about looks if that's ALL they're looking for because they're not going to be "with them".

Ever see a ripped, great looking guy leave a bar with an unattractive girl -- but you'd never see it start that way walking in at 6PM vs leaving at 2am? He's not into looks -- he's INTO SEX. There's a difference. You're equating guys being up for fooling around = only-into-looks when it comes to women to (actually) be with.
 Midwest_Southwest
Joined: 9/9/2012
Msg: 227
About leagues. . .
Posted: 6/15/2013 9:09:22 AM
Many men tell women what they what to hear. Men mostly think a woman wants to believe she is hot. It's not about what is valuable to men, it's about what men have learned women like to hear.

So how well do you think it will go over if a man tells his date, well in the right light you can look cute. And your mind really makes up for your lack of looks.


I see your posts as so positive and optimistic, so this one came as a surprise because it seems so sad to me. I'd always assumed that the vast majority of people are sincere in what they say and that only a few scam or flatter. Do you think that a few men think women want to be told they’re hot and say what they think women want to hear, or do you think that this is common and the perspective of most men about most women? And it never occurred to me to tell a date that his intelligence made up for his appearance, though I’ve said, and meant it when I’ve said it, “I love the way you think” without even thinking to factor in or weigh it against his physical appearance.
 justlookingvt
Joined: 5/8/2010
Msg: 228
About leagues. . .
Posted: 6/15/2013 8:56:05 PM





Anyone who actually believes that looks don't matter to women should try an experiment I conducted a few years ago. Create two identical male profiles, except put pictures of an average looking guy on one and pictures of a good looking guy on the other. One profile will receive zero initial contact from women, the other will be inundated with emails. Guess which one gets all the attention?


No try nor guess needed. After your creating multiple profiles thereby violating the POF TOS agreement to conduct your “experiment”, you discovered that the force of attraction F, between a man M, and a woman W, is directly proportional to their looks and, inversely proportional to the square of the sum of how much time, expressed in milliseconds, the male M spends complaining about the existence of leagues L and complaining about paying for the cup of coffee C he pretended to invite the woman W to (tL + tC)^2. This yields, F = (M x W)/(tL + tC)^2. Your personal Newtonian moment and success story. Thank you for sharing. Historical contribution to dating science, expect a collect call from Oslo.

On a related note, “inundated” is not a number. If you had actually performed the experiment you’d have real numbers to show. Additionally, some people are “inundated” when the count exceeds the number of fingers they have.




It's so obvious that girls only care about the looks anyway -


What is actually obvious is that, just in this page, there are 5 women out of 5 (that’s 100% for the inundated ones) who do _not_ have the looks of a man as their main concern. That makes it obvious your statement is patently false.



With guys I swear there are two leagues that exist in a girls mind - greek god and everybody else.


If you believe that, you should consider applying for Greek citizenship. At least you’d have 50% of they want, point out you’re half full, it makes you look positive.



yeah give up my 1 cider at each games night -no way!


For some reason I thought you’d be a wine drinker.


...............................................................................................................................


@Confident-Realist

In your last post you’ve really been commingling two completely separate cases. One, the importance of a man’s looks to a woman in the case of a hookup and, the other, the importance of a man’s looks to a woman in the partner selection process. Since you seem to insist on addressing both, let’s address them separately.

1. The importance of a man’s looks to a woman in the case of a hookup.

In the case of a hookup, I assert that a man’s looks are _still_ not a woman’s primary concern and/or consideration. There are several reasons for this, the first and most important one is that, in the case of a hookup, the primary concern of a wise woman is her safety. After that, she is most likely concerned about how much fun _she_ is going to get out of the hookup. This is because many women, unfortunately, learn that there is a significant number of men that care a lot more about their own satisfaction than hers. The resolution of both of these considerations hinges on the man’s personality, _not_ his looks. Therefore, even in the case of a hookup, a woman will rarely have the guy’s looks as her main consideration.

Obviously, in this case, the man isn’t usually concerned with his safety nor the unlikely possibility, for a man, of ending up without an orgasm. Therefore, in this case, it is particularly clear that a significant number of males make their choice based mostly if not solely on the looks of a woman. In this situation, there are males who will make significant compromises in the woman’s looks depending on their level of “desperation”. From what you wrote in your last reply, I get the impression you agree with this assessment as far as male behavior is concerned.


2. The importance of a man’s looks to a woman in the case of partner selection.

In this case, it should be rather obvious why, for a woman, a man’s looks would take a backseat to a long series of much more important considerations, particularly if motherhood is a future possibility. For a woman, a man’s looks will take a backseat to the man’s personality and character among many other personal traits.

In the case of males, this is where the widespread adoption of the “three dates, get laid” rule betrays the males’ high level of interest in a woman’s looks and, the obvious secondary level of interest in her as a person. Women with a “three dates, get laid” rule don’t seem to be quite as common as their male counterparts.




Your assertion is that guys are just into looks and women aren't much at all ...


What I said and continue saying is that women do not make a man’s look their primary consideration. That does _not_ mean that a woman will go out with someone she is not attracted to, she won’t. However, as several women have already pointed out in this thread, they will go out with a man they consider only somewhat, or only mildly, attractive to them because, for them, the guy could become significantly more attractive depending on his personality.

I’ve never said women will go out with a guy they are not attracted to. I don’t see why anyone, male or female, would do such a thing.



Women get their inboxes filled -- it's not even a contest -- when compared to guys.


CR, their inboxes get filled with _garbage_. They don’t want all that crap they get. As a male, I would hate getting 10 or 15 messages every day from lunatic females in heat. That’s what they deal with (but from males of course.)



Women don't initiate contact IRL remotely close to men


That may very well be true but, that’s only because there seems to be a significant number of males pursuing whatever crosses their path. That said, if a woman is interested in a guy, they sure know how to make it quite clear, they are just more subtle and classy in their ways.



But a mere "hey what's up" is good for many women (maybe not you),


You really should get in the habit of reading profiles (mine included)... LOL



And attractive women will get more than their fare share of emails to initiate things.


A “"hey what's up" or a “hey babe you kickin” isn’t an opportunity for a woman to initiate something. Why would a woman be interested in initiating something with that ?... if the guy had read the woman’s profile he should be able to initiate something with a much better message.

That sort of lame initial message clearly indicates the guy didn’t read the profile or that he lacks a little imagination to say the least or even more likely, he is trying to get laid without offering much of anything to the woman. Whichever the case may be, it really should not be a surprise to the sender not to get a reply.



You obviously need to drop the feminazi handbook.


I can’t drop it, I’ve never had one of those... LOL... you really should read the profile of the people you interact with... lol



Guys who run hastily actually aren't necessarily saying "Hey babe, let's just do it".


I don’t know which is worse. If that is not what they are saying, it shows a rather severe lack of imagination and/or conversational skills.



That's just bitter talk from past experiences.


I guess I might be bitter if I had gotten tens or hundreds of “hey babe you kickin” messages... LOL Obviously, you were a bit “confused” when you typed your last post so, I’ll reiterate what I said:

Haste indicates no interest in the person past their looks.



Actually it's HUGE for both.


Again, it’s generally true for guys. As far as women are concerned, I’ll reiterate what I said before:

Girls like a good looking guy but, in the majority of cases, his personality and character are more important to them than the guy's looks. The fact that women respond to messages and even go on dates with guys they initially don't find particularly attractive attests to the fact that looks are _not_ huge to them.

In this page alone, there are 5 women who have acknowledged going out on dates with guys they found only mildly attractive. That should make it rather clear that looks are _not_ huge, nor their main consideration.



A guy with sub-par looks is NOT attractive.


A guy with sub-par looks a woman is only mildly attracted to physically could become highly attractive to a woman depending on his personality. This has been stated in various ways by several female posters in this page alone.



That is an anti-man, totally askew & inaccurate view.


anti-man uh ?... LOL... that’s a good one.

We’ll resume this discussion after your next post.. and hopefully after you’ve read my profile...:-)

 Space_Weaver
Joined: 11/27/2012
Msg: 229
About leagues. . .
Posted: 6/16/2013 2:09:48 AM
"This is the problem with dating today, everyone only wants complete perfection. This applies to both men and women: Finding someone in their late 20s+ who's fit, athletic, attractive, single, with a good job, can make you laugh all the time... isn't likely to happen, because odds are, they're already married and have a family.

None of us are going to find perfection, we all need to accept this. EVERYONE has flaws. You're not necessarily going to find someone that's tall enough, or works out enough. This superficial ideas aren't what you should be building relationships on. Your bf/gf doesn't like to jog? Well call up your friend who does. These people are supposed to be a part of your life, not your whole life. These differences in interests are what keeps relationships healthy. You should NOT be with each other 24/7. In that girls case about not being able to find guys that fit that description, she's not looking for a boyfriend and maybe eventually a husband, she's looking for a workout partner, or someone to completely replace all of her friends.

This thinking destroys relationship after relationship. You don't have to share 100% of the same interests. I'm a musician, that's a big part of who I am... That doesn't mean that I can only date musicians. There's other common interests. Remember, alone time, or time with your friends and not the person you're dating is very healthy. Learn to use those lacks of similar interests as ways to remember that the other people in your life exist."

@rockstar. Totally agree with this view. I would think people would want a little variety in their life rather than the same old things they already do. I would see the differences in interests as a possible enhancement. Sadly, it appears that those that checklist and expect a perfect score on this are living in a bland, mono-cultured world, and will continue to do so.

People are so hung up these days with labels, categorizing, leagues and whatever along the lines of this, even when we don't know thing one about that person. Sadly the so-called, self perceived box of meh! trash is often sprinkled with gems.

As far as looks go, it appears that it is a huge factor that affects both men and women in selection. People are just trying to be PC and disguise this a something not major when it is. If looks weren't that important, then why on most profiles does it say, must have pic to message, or must have a current pic? A good portion of the profiles that I read have some form of physical aesthetic they like; from tattoos to height. It is all smoke and mirrors.
 Paderic
Joined: 2/23/2010
Msg: 230
About leagues. . .
Posted: 6/16/2013 8:16:33 AM
After your creating multiple profiles thereby violating the POF TOS agreement to conduct your “experiment”,


So sue me...


On a related note, “inundated” is not a number. If you had actually performed the experiment you’d have real numbers to show. Additionally, some people are “inundated” when the count exceeds the number of fingers they have.


And anyone with moderate intelligence would be able to figure out that in using the word "inundated," I was attempting to concisely communicate that the emails were numerous but I didn't keep track. I only left the profiles up for about a week. In that time, I would guess the good looking profile received a few hundred first contact notes. The average looking profile received exactly zero.

I haven't seen a whole lot of actual numbers associated with your claims, either. Just lots of opinion laced with lame ad-hominems.
 juliettes7
Joined: 11/4/2012
Msg: 231
About leagues. . .
Posted: 6/17/2013 12:49:54 AM
"I am wondering, is it too simplistic to assume because someone is physically more attractive than yourself, that it is simply pointless to try starting a conversation, even if you both share similar interests? I find myself reading through a profile of someone, but then deciding not to send a message because they seem too attractive for someone like me. In real life situations, I find myself doing this as well. My question is, is this keeping from potentially good partners?"

Go ahead, it's not like you are scary looking. The worst that can happen is she doesn't feel a thing. When I recall men chatting with me that I wasn't that attracted to...it wasn't confidence that would create attraction..just that the person was natural, being himself and maybe I would find him intelligent, funny without him trying to be...just treat her as you do everyone.
Acting intimidated is bad, or toadying up to her, any pedestal behavior..Unattractive . I don't thinking acting overconfident works, just be relaxed.
This guy asked me a political question and I answered him. Apparently he had no interest in my answer or the question because he just stood there silent. If he had just chatted normally about it, I might have found him vaguely interesting. Once I remember some advocate discussing an issue he was passionate about and I remember being touched and looking him up because he was impaSsioned and articulate.
So the point is sometimes one is drawn to an intangible thing.
 Pinky127
Joined: 1/7/2012
Msg: 232
About leagues. . .
Posted: 6/17/2013 9:36:16 AM
Justlookingvt,i applaud you for your Posts because imo,you are absolutely bang-on in everything you've said and im gobsmacked and quite bewildered at a couple of the other male Posters here vehemently trying to argue with everything you've said.
I dont understand that they dont geddit? Lol!

Oh and im the 6th female now to say that im madly in love with my fella and in the very beginning i wasn't particularly attracted to him but i took some time getting to know him and ultimately it was his personality and strong character combined with a fantastic sense of humour that "hooked" me and now i think he's the sexiest damned man ive ever been involved with
 justlookingvt
Joined: 5/8/2010
Msg: 233
About leagues. . .
Posted: 6/17/2013 10:13:26 AM



@paderic



So sue me...


I seriously doubt anyone is going to sue you because you found it necessary to violate the POF TOS by creating multiple profiles to figure out the obvious. On the other hand, being the experimentalist that you are, you may want to sue yourself to figure out who wins, fortunately, that experiment does not require you to violate the POF TOS again.



I was attempting...


Indeed you were attempting....



the emails were numerous but I didn't keep track. I only left the profiles up for about a week.


You go to the trouble of violating the POF TOS to conduct an experiment and you don’t keep track of the results ?. That’s brilliant, so brilliant, it is hardly credible.



I would guess the good looking profile received a few hundred first contact notes.


You wouldn’t have to “guess” if you had added the numbers that follow the “NEW” heading the “Inbox” turns into everytime there is a new message. My “guess” is that you performed no such experiment and compensate your lack of facts with “imagination”. It was too much work for you to add the numbers up but it wasn’t too much work for you to create multiple profiles in violation of POF TOS. That’s very credible.



I haven't seen a whole lot of actual numbers associated with your claims, either.


You must have missed this...



just in this page, there are 5 women out of 5 (that’s 100% for the inundated ones) ....


^^^ see... numbers, even percentages. Best part is, unlike the experiment you claim to have performed, you or anyone else can verify the numbers and the percentage.



lame ad-hominems.


It is not an ad hominen to point out that your “experiment” is, to put it very kindly, “flawed” and, to put it accurately, a bunch of lame B.S you made up. Additionally, your “experiment” is not applicable to the topic being discussed. The point is, there are no leagues based on looks because personality and character trump looks. The fake profiles you created (in violation of the POF TOS), do not include any information on the personalities of the individuals, as such, your experiment, in addition to being lame is not applicable to the discussion.

As if that weren’t enough, a “few hundred contact notes” as you put it, would be considered meager if your experiment had been done in NY, NY but an “inundation” if your experiment had been done in Pollock, Louisiana.

In the event you may want to conduct that kind of experiment again in the future (and for real), you may find the information in the articles below quite helpful

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_size
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margin_of_error

Maybe then you may have an experiment worth mentioning.


...............................................................................................................................

@ FarmerGiles65



Err numbnuts,


^^^ frustration.... so unattractive. The existence of Greek gods isn’t the reason why you are not getting attention from women.



you might want to look at what actually happens in reality


Let me consider your reality for a second....



I swear there are two leagues that exist in a girls mind - greek god and everybody else.


^^^ your reality sucks. Thank you for your very kind offer but, I’ll pass.



you might want to re-consider your feeble attack.


I didn’t attack you... I tried to improve your reality. I’m quite pleased to have been unsuccessful.


...............................................................................................................................

@Pinky127



Justlookingvt,i applaud you


That is SO hot!... ;-) If you weren’t taken already ... ;-)


...............................................................................................................................


@paderic (again)

More numbers...

Count update: 6 out of 6 (maybe even 7 out of 7 with Juliettes7) at this rate, the thread might be "inundated".

 Paderic
Joined: 2/23/2010
Msg: 234
About leagues. . .
Posted: 6/17/2013 7:14:44 PM
I seriously doubt anyone is going to sue you because you found it necessary to violate the POF TOS by creating multiple profiles to figure out the obvious. On the other hand, being the experimentalist that you are, you may want to sue yourself to figure out who wins, fortunately, that experiment does not require you to violate the POF TOS again.


That has to be the dumbest response ever.

a bunch of lame B.S you made up.


Nice guess, but you're wrong (as usual). I didn't make anything up.


Oh and im the 6th female now to say that im madly in love with my fella and in the very beginning i wasn't particularly attracted to him but i took some time getting to know him and ultimately it was his personality and strong character combined with a fantastic sense of humour that "hooked" me and now i think he's the sexiest damned man ive ever been involved with


I've dated a number of women that I wasn't initially attracted to, but as I got to know them I found them more and more attractive. What's your point? I wasn't aware there was a contest going on in this thread.
 Pinky127
Joined: 1/7/2012
Msg: 235
About leagues. . .
Posted: 6/17/2013 9:03:50 PM
^^ I added that comment for the purpose of disputing that women are only interested in men with muscles who are an Adonis and who have big,fat wallets.
It's so untrue.
(Nothing to do with any contest? Huh?)
*shrug*
 Nj2ut
Joined: 11/5/2012
Msg: 236
About leagues. . .
Posted: 6/18/2013 12:03:59 AM
Lets be honest, does any woman really want to hear that her man didn't find her attractive originally, but hey after getting to know you, now I find you attractive?
 Paderic
Joined: 2/23/2010
Msg: 237
About leagues. . .
Posted: 6/18/2013 6:42:27 AM

I added that comment for the purpose of disputing that women are only interested in men with muscles who are an Adonis and who have big,fat wallets.


Some women are only interested in those criteria, whereas others are not. Just like some men are only interested in a woman's looks, but some men are interested in more. It's not possible to determine whether such behaviors are more common in one gender than the other by simply counting posts in an internet dating forum.
 35brock
Joined: 3/20/2013
Msg: 238
About leagues. . .
Posted: 6/18/2013 6:58:34 AM

Women commonly initiate contact both online and irl, they just use a different method, one that is more subtle, not to mention generally classier (no "wasup babe" coming from them)


In the "real world", women may give subtle hints that they are interested in a man. But how you can give subtle hints online. The only way she could show her interest is by emailing him. Or on some dating sites, sending him a "wink" or marking him as a favorite. When a woman did email me first, they would often write "How are you? or some other brief and generic first message that some people here complain about.
 Midwest_Southwest
Joined: 9/9/2012
Msg: 239
About leagues. . .
Posted: 6/18/2013 9:14:51 AM
There’s a big difference between looks being the overriding criterion and looks being a factor. If you’re assessing first contacts in terms of physical appearance, I agree that photos are very influential but the handsomest doesn’t draw my attention or hook me at all. A non-Adonis with a smiling face, clearly visible eyes, looking right at the camera (at “you”) is much more appealing than a very handsome man with a blank expression, looking off to the side, or with sunglasses on or unclear eyes. I don’t know if that means that I decide on looks or not, because I also read profiles, but if I’m really looking for a relationship (which I’m not at times) I tend to read the profiles of the people who are smiling and close up and skip by the others, handsome or not. Like OP, though, I don't approach or contact extremely handsome men, unless he looks very warm and engaged. I suppose it does limit me, and its based on silly assumptions.
 justlookingvt
Joined: 5/8/2010
Msg: 240
About leagues. . .
Posted: 6/18/2013 10:58:25 AM
@35brock



But how you can give subtle hints online.


I concur. I think online dating handicaps both men and women. Too much of the individual is missing in this environment.



When a woman did email me first, they would often write "How are you? or some other brief and generic first message that some people here complain about.


I think online dating puts women in particular in a very tough spot as far as initiating things. IRL, they could send all kinds of subtle hints inviting the guy to approach them. Here, those subtle hints are not available. The alternative is a simple message such as the “how are you ?” you mentioned to “open the door” for the guy to “approach” her.

One thing I am almost certain of, is that when a guy gets a simple “how are you ?” or similar message from a woman, the woman has read the guy’s profile. If the profile had exposed a “less than desirable” personality, the guy would not have gotten a message at all. When it’s all said and done, looks may get a woman to read a man’s profile but, it will be the personality reflected in the profile that will determine if there is contact or not.

When a guy contacts a woman, if she finds the guy at least neutral or somewhat attractive, she’ll read the profile and the message. It is the contents of those that will determine if there is a reply or not, not the picture.

................................................................................................................................................


@paderic



That has to be the dumbest response ever.


It is designed to fit the brilliance of the recipient who thought he’d get sued for violating the POF TOS by creating multiple profiles in order to prove the obvious.



Nice guess, but you're wrong (as usual). I didn't make anything up.


Of course not... you go to the trouble of violating POF TOS to make multiple profiles to supposedly perform an experiment and you don’t keep track of the results of your experiment... if you actually did that, that was a stroke of genius.



paderic msg: 309

But most people are seeking a physical relationship, so of course physical appearance matters. It's unrealistic to expect otherwise.


^^^ in that post physical appearance matters and it is unrealistic to expect otherwise.... a few posts from you later...



paderic msg: 354

I've dated a number of women that I wasn't initially attracted to,


Suddenly you decided to become, in your own words, unrealistic. That’s very credible.



What's your point?


You missed her point...?... her point, and that of other women in this thread, is that a man’s looks are not her/their main consideration in the decision to date a man.



I wasn't aware there was a contest going on in this thread.


That’s because there’s never been a contest going on. Just a discussion making it clear that a man’s looks are not a woman’s primary consideration in her decision to date a man. The count, 6 out of 6 so far, indicates that the statement holds true for 100% of the women who have given their opinion. No contest anywhere, just a simple tracking of opinions associated with the assertion. So far, women have made it clear that looks are a secondary consideration whereas males have made it clear that looks are a “huge” consideration.



It's not possible to determine whether such behaviors are more common in one gender than the other by simply counting posts in an internet dating forum.


The nile inundation. To anyone who has been in the forums over 3 years, it should be rather obvious that males have a very obvious tendency to place a greater value on looks than women do.

It is downright silly to pretend that males are not more visual than women in their initial selection of who they will date. The obvious fact that a large number of males don’t read profiles makes it clear among many other telltale signs.

Your claim that it is not possible to determine the behavior pattern is mathematically proven to be self serving B.S on your part. The nile inundation doesn’t change that. A basic understanding of the articles below easily confirms it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_size
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margin_of_error

The bottom line remains the same, women have made it quite clear that a man’s looks are not a woman’s primary consideration in their decision to date a man. A significant number of men, by their behavior and statements, have made it quite clear that a woman’s looks play a primordial role in their decision to date a woman.
 Paderic
Joined: 2/23/2010
Msg: 241
About leagues. . .
Posted: 6/18/2013 11:28:30 AM
It is designed to fit the brilliance of the recipient who thought he’d get sued for violating the POF TOS by creating multiple profiles in order to prove the obvious.


Congratulations, you've managed to come up with an even dumber response.


I don't think I said what I was trying to accomplish, nor have I tried to present it as anything more than something I tried. All I've said is that it shows appearance is important to a lot of women, which is true. I have not said that it proves anything about its relative importance to either gender.

Of course not... you go to the trouble of violating POF TOS to make multiple profiles to supposedly perform an experiment and you don’t keep track of the results of your experiment... if you actually did that, that was a stroke of genius.


What is it about the POF TOS that gives you such a woodie? I'm sure the FBI is willing to investigate if you give them a call.


Suddenly you decided to become, in your own words, unrealistic. That’s very credible.


Wrong again. The two statements are not mutually exclusive.


The bottom line remains the same, women have made it quite clear that a man’s looks are not a woman’s primary consideration in their decision to date a man. A significant number of men, by their behavior and statements, have made it quite clear that a woman’s looks play a primordial role in their decision to date a woman.


Neither of those statements proves that the behaviors are more prevalent in one gender than the other. There are plenty of statements made by women on this forum that indicate appearance is high on their list of criteria, and there are plenty of statements from men that indicate they have entered into relationships where appearance wasn't the primary criterion.

You've presented no data, no numerical results, nothing. Just a lot of opinion and chest thumping.
 browneyesboo
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 242
About leagues. . .
Posted: 6/18/2013 12:18:31 PM

The bottom line remains the same, women have made it quite clear that a man’s looks are not a woman’s primary consideration in their decision to date a man. A significant number of men, by their behavior and statements, have made it quite clear that a woman’s looks play a primordial role in their decision to date a woman


I find it hard to believe that both sexes would overlook bad looks in their decision to date? I'll admit looks aren't all
that important to me...but certainly BAD looks are. Taking away the subjective "good looks...eye of the beholder" that
sort of thing, I think both sexes automatically rule out those they deem unattractive in anyway. Could be hygiene issues,
could be personality, could be clothes or how they present themselves, but many people are a turn off just by how they
look. I do think weight is something most men notice in women and height is something women notice in men, and I
do believe (at least IMO) these things fall under the looks department. I think when people say "looks don't matter"
what they are really saying is "I don't care how you look, as long as it isn't awful." There has to be something about a person that attracts you to them...and it has to be something that outshines any obvious distraction.

But what do I know. I believe there are leagues...and everyone has them, they just call them something else...criteria,
standards, perimeters...whatever. If they didn't have them, we wouldn't have any problems at all...everyone would just
be attracted to anyone.
 house_full_of_bullets
Joined: 8/22/2011
Msg: 243
About leagues. . .
Posted: 6/18/2013 4:21:53 PM
There’s a big difference between looks being the overriding criterion and looks being a factor. If you’re assessing first contacts in terms of physical appearance, I agree that photos are very influential but the handsomest doesn’t draw my attention or hook me at all. A non-Adonis with a smiling face, clearly visible eyes, looking right at the camera (at “you”) is much more appealing than a very handsome man with a blank expression, looking off to the side, or with sunglasses on or unclear eyes. I don’t know if that means that I decide on looks or not, because I also read profiles, but if I’m really looking for a relationship (which I’m not at times) I tend to read the profiles of the people who are smiling and close up and skip by the others, handsome or not. Like OP, though, I don't approach or contact extremely handsome men, unless he looks very warm and engaged. I suppose it does limit me, and its based on silly assumptions.


Midwest - after first seeing you on the forums I've been meaning to say this to you for quite some time. So here goes:


Go Blue.

*whew* I'm glad to have that off my chest. ;-)
 Midwest_Southwest
Joined: 9/9/2012
Msg: 244
About leagues. . .
Posted: 6/18/2013 5:16:18 PM
That’s right! Haha!

All the proof you need… Bullets proves the power of words- and he’s got a cat on his face. Can’t even see him. In two words, he’s a Big 10. Bazinga.
 MsMaggieMay
Joined: 2/2/2013
Msg: 245
About leagues. . .
Posted: 6/18/2013 8:51:40 PM
Yes it's pointless to try. Everyone wants someone better then they are. If you are a 4 and continually chasing 8 and 9's then you will always be disappointed. They know they can do better then you. I would never bother to message someone above a 3,possibly a 4. Of course there will always be the politically correct minded crowd who will chime in with, "there's no such things as leagues",or,"my friends second cousin co worker is with a really hot girl so it can happen".
 Pinky127
Joined: 1/7/2012
Msg: 246
About leagues. . .
Posted: 6/19/2013 12:17:02 AM
I think some of the male Posters in this Thread should get a grip and realize that if they're not attractive to women it's most likely because of their attitude and it has nothing whatsoever to do with their looks.

Ugly attitudes and huge chips-on-shoulders are soooo unattractive.
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