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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.      Home login  
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 larissan04
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 201
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.Page 9 of 14    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14)
OP

Things have gotten much worse under Obama. My European friends and relatives seem to like Obama well enough, so I would be more than happy to let you have him - if it were up to me. That being said, Obama was just not the right guy for the time. He was woefully unprepared to walk into the kind of economic nightmare that he walked into. While many like to blame Bush for the economic woes that brought on the housing collapse, this is, of course, quite simplistic, and the multitude of contributing factors date back to Carter with both parties sharing plenty of blame to go around. The thing is, we elect a man as president because we want someone who can solve problems. There is a point where it doesn't matter who or what caused it, but rather how to fix it becomes the priority. Mr. Obama and his advisers have really no idea what really caused the economic near collapse of '08, and he is completely lacking in the insight, skill set, and stones needed to fix things. Obama is going to give us nothing but 4 more years of the same stagnant economic growth, class envy, and populist rhetoric. We gave him 4 years; now it's time for an adult to take over.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 202
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/28/2012 10:51:02 PM
@Hither


There is no such thing as "white supremacy."


Then I guess you've never heard of the KKK, the aryan nation, and the neo-skin heads; or perhaps in your mind they never existed. Btw, I'm not saying that hate groups are exclusive to whites; but they are certainly there, and the Obama presidency has given them new verve.


since you are so filled with hate.


only towards those who insult my intelligence


The reason that blacks vote for the dems is because the dems give them free cheese.


This might come as a surprise to ya; but there is way more white pple on welfare than there are blacks


Blacks sold their souls to the dems for free cheese. Prior to the welfare state, black illegitimacy was around 20%.Since the dems have been "helping" the black community with welfare, the rate of out of wedlock births have now skyrocketed to 70%.


How do you explain the rate of illegitimacy among whites that has skyrocketed (though not as high as 70%, but not too far from it) in the past 30 some odd years? Is because the GOP has been giving them free "wine" perhaps


If you reward bad behavior, you get more of the same and even expand it.


I agree, look at what corporate welfare has resulted in, as we rewarded bad decisions made by the bankers


The black familywas strong prior to the welfare state that came about in the late 60's/early 70's. The men stayed in the family unit and worked hard to provide for their respective families. The dems ruined the black family.


LMAO; it was those evil Dems that ruined black folks, eh; You mean it wasn't the Jim Crow laws & the oppression that they spawned. To you, those musta been the good ol days, when "da neegro" knew his place, eh? Yeah, that is when the Black men stayed with their wives & families. What a loving & happy scene that musta been, right?



In fact (and I'm sure this is way over the heads of many of the angry/clueless posters here)
I just read an article from the WSJ, wherein a jewish writer lamented the fact that Asians are now vying
for the top spot in running the American culture, and he expressed some anxiety, either real or feigned.
Of course, most here would never be able to recognize the obvious fact that jews do indeed run this culture.


Perhaps, but don't you know that in this country, who ever controls the most money also controls the culture! You should keep that in mind when you complain about the camp on the left wanting more from the camp on the right, Bullsh!t!


And of course, I'm a "vicious anti-semite" for even talking about it!


wouldn't be quick to say you are anti-semite; but I would say you are quite gullible.


of European background on the other side. There is no way to bring these two camps together, becausethe camp on the left very much wants to take away EVERYTHING from the camp on the right.


Is that why the camp on the right has been getting wealthier & wealthier with each decade, while the camp on the left has been getting poorer & poorer?



Most whites, and in fact most people in general, have not the faintest clue as to what is going on in this culture. And most people don't care as long as the beer flows freely and sports abound.


who is giving out FREE beer? Is it the Feds? How do I sign up?


You CAN'T import hostile immigrants into a society, while at the same time displacing the very people who built the country into the greatest power the world has ever known, and expect the thing to work the way it used to work.


You do realize that it is those very same pple on top (who built this country) that are allowing "hostile" immigrants in here to begin with, for the purpose of getting cheap labor, and increase their profit margins.
------------------------------------
@Thumbz



But, like hithere said, the Black family unit is pretty much dead, BUT the Dems have lots of Hispanics to work on. No problema !!
We'll check back in a few decades for a progress report.


Nice to see that you & Hither are in the same "camp"; If MR wins, you can give us a progress report in just a few short years. I'll clue you in on what to look for. You can start when the DowJones plummets back down to 7000; when Big Business gets more tax breaks and provide less jobs like it happened under Gwb; and as a bonus, he'll privatize SS & medicare so when you wait for your check you can ask the hedge fund managers what did with "your" money, when nothing is in the mail! Atta boy Thumbz.
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 203
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History
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/28/2012 11:04:14 PM
Pretty interesting...


A University of Colorado analysis of state-by-state factors leading to the Electoral College selection of every U.S. president since 1980 forecasts that the 2012 winner will be Mitt Romney.

The key is the economy, say political science professors Kenneth Bickers of CU-Boulder and Michael Berry of CU Denver. Their prediction model stresses economic data from the 50 states and the District of Columbia, including both state and national unemployment figures as well as changes in real per capita income, among other factors.

“Based on our forecasting model, it becomes clear that the president is in electoral trouble,” said Bickers, also director of the CU in DC Internship Program.

According to their analysis, President Barack Obama will win 213 votes in the Electoral College, short of the 270 he needs. And though they chiefly focus on the Electoral College, the political scientists predict Romney will win 52.9 percent of the popular vote to Obama’s 47.1 percent, when considering only the two major political parties.

“For the last eight presidential elections, this model has correctly predicted the winner,” said Berry. “The economy has seen some improvement since President Obama took office. What remains to be seen is whether voters will consider the economy in relative or absolute terms. If it’s the former, the president may receive credit for the economy’s trajectory and win a second term. In the latter case, Romney should pick up a number of states Obama won in 2008.”

Their model correctly predicted all elections since 1980, including two years when independent candidates ran strongly, 1980 and 1992. It also correctly predicted the outcome in 2000, when Al Gore received the most popular vote but George W. Bush won the election.

The study will be published this month in PS: Political Science & Politics, a peer-reviewed journal of the American Political Science Association. It will be among about a dozen election prediction models, but one of only two to focus on the Electoral College.

While many forecast models are based on the popular vote, the Electoral College model developed by Bickers and Berry is the only one of its type to include more than one state-level measure of economic conditions.

In addition to state and national unemployment rates, the authors looked at per capita income, which indicates the extent to which people have more or less disposable income. Research shows that these two factors affect the major parties differently: Voters hold Democrats more responsible for unemployment rates while Republicans are held more responsible for per capita income.

Accordingly -- and depending largely on which party is in the White House at the time -- each factor can either help or hurt the major parties disproportionately.

Their results show that “the apparent advantage of being a Democratic candidate and holding the White House disappears when the national unemployment rate hits 5.6 percent,” Berry said. The results indicate, according to Bickers, “that the incumbency advantage enjoyed by President Obama, though statistically significant, is not great enough to offset high rates of unemployment currently experienced in many of the states.”

In an examination of other factors, the authors found that none of the following had any statistically significant effect on whether a state ultimately went for a particular candidate: The location of a party’s national convention; the home state of the vice president; or the partisanship of state governors.

In 2012, “What is striking about our state-level economic indicator forecast is the expectation that Obama will lose almost all of the states currently considered as swing states, including North Carolina, Virginia, New Hampshire, Colorado, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Florida,” Bickers said.

In Colorado, which went for Obama in 2008, the model predicts that Romney will receive 51.9 percent of the vote to Obama’s 48.1 percent, again with only the two major parties considered.

The authors also provided caveats. Factors they said may affect their prediction include the timeframe of the economic data used in the study and close tallies in certain states. The current data was taken five months in advance of the Nov. 6 election and they plan to update it with more current economic data in September. A second factor is that states very close to a 50-50 split may fall an unexpected direction.

“As scholars and pundits well know, each election has unique elements that could lead one or more states to behave in ways in a particular election that the model is unable to correctly predict,” Berry said.

Election prediction models “suggest that presidential elections are about big things and the stewardship of the national economy,” Bickers said. “It’s not about gaffes, political commercials or day-to-day campaign tactics. I find that heartening for our democracy.”

http://www.colorado.edu/news/releases/2012/08/22/analysis-election-factors-points-romney-win-university-colorado-study-says
 unYOUsual
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 204
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/29/2012 6:31:49 AM

and 98% of blacks voted for Bill Clinton back when he ran for POTUS
Maybe so but it doesn't change the fact that many Blacks based their vote on the color of Obamas skin and not his party affiliation...funny to see how convoluted Powells reasoning was for his endorsement of Obama for a second term..compare that to statements he made about the reasoning behind his first endorsement of Obama and it is obvious that he is full of BS and he endorsed him based on the fact that that he is an African American..
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 205
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/29/2012 9:55:51 AM
"Pretty interesting"

Well, yes it is...I'm curious, not unlike polls, that are inaccurate and generally useless in predicting things. There are MANY models out there predicting different results...

Now Steel, not that I'm accusing anyone of trying to salt the process, I am curious...can you cite any articles and their dates, by Colorado, BEFORE the other elections they now say they predicted?
 MysticalWorld
Joined: 8/15/2011
Msg: 206
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History
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/29/2012 10:49:21 AM
If Obama wins, it will be without one single Republican vote (sound familiar?!). MR will get votes from registered Democrats.
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 207
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History
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/29/2012 5:47:13 PM
Now Steel, not that I'm accusing anyone of trying to salt the process, I am curious...can you cite any articles and their dates, by Colorado, BEFORE the other elections they now say they predicted?


You would need to contact them if you want the archives of past elections they predicted.

Kenneth Bickers, 303-492-2363
bickers@colorado.edu
Michael Berry, 303-556-6244
michael.berry@ucdenver.edu
Peter Caughey, CU-Boulder media relations, 303-492-4007
David Kelly, CU Denver media relations, 303-315-6374
 statemachine500
Joined: 8/25/2011
Msg: 208
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/29/2012 6:01:28 PM

Mr. Obama and his advisers have really no idea what really caused the economic near collapse of '08, and he is completely lacking in the insight, skill set, and stones needed to fix things. Obama is going to give us nothing but 4 more years of the same stagnant economic growth, class envy, and populist rhetoric. We gave him 4 years; now it's time for an adult to take over.


Very similar to Romney blathering on that Obama is a nice guy but not really up to the job.So you need a man for the job and not a boy?Romney has manufactured nothing of note and played out of bounds most of the time.He is warning that he will put aside two trillion for the military.....because you can't be certain to get rid of Iran's nuclear ambitions with just a bunker buster.This guy will do nothing but increase your problems.Too bad you guys can't figure it out.
 SteelCity1981
Joined: 8/16/2005
Msg: 209
view profile
History
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/29/2012 6:20:52 PM
Wow i didn't know so many celebrities have came out to support Romney. Some of these celebrities have really surprised me with their backing of Romney like Nicki Minaj and Lindsay Lohan????????????

http://aboutmittromney.com/celebrities.htm
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 210
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/29/2012 6:28:34 PM
@221 sometimes it happens that a persons beliefs, may NOT actually reflect the facts.

"While many like to blame Bush for the economic woes that brought on the housing collapse, this is, of course, quite simplistic, and the multitude of contributing factors dat back to Carter"

Hahahahaha! Are you republicants EVER gonna stop blaming Jimmy Carter for anything that happens in this country? Go easier on the bleach, it's affecting your memory and judgement!

Now color me crazy, but since many, many economists trace things back to the era (2000-2008) of shrub. So in essence, what you have said is, there were problems Carter created that shrub couldn't undo in his 8 years? Or that Reagan/Bush1 couldn't have addressed in their 12 years? Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees!

"we want someone who can solve our problems"

Then what happens if they can't do it because the hole dug, takes more than 4 years to fill! Let me ask you this...if McCain/Palin had won(gawd forbid)...would you be voting to turn them out this year in favor of a democrat? Didn't think so...hahahahaha!

The simple truth of the 08 collapse was the housing crisis, NOT based on falling prices at the beginning, but the failure of loans, because of the increase in "no doc" mortgages..which were basically 'if you have a heartbeat, sign this paper and you got a loan!' Then as all these mortgages were turned back on the banks who issued them, they stopped lending, which resulted in frozen credit markets. Even the massive GE was affected as they couldn't meet borrowing needs in the market place. This came to a head, in August of 08, then Lehman collapsed in september and the markets continued to sell off.

"now it's time for an adult to take over"

So your idea of an adult is the mittster? Hahahahaha! A man who as governor, said he fostered bi-partisanship! When in reality he vetoed 844 bills, but had about 750 of them overridden. A man now lying about saying Jeep is shipping all their jobs overseas in Ohio, despite the company saying they had no such plans. A man who will say anything about anything in order to please who he is talking to, in order to win an election. Except when it comes to his taxes or economic plans for us...where he will not say anything at all!

Time for a check up, from the neck up...
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 211
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History
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/29/2012 10:02:52 PM

A man now lying about saying Jeep is shipping all their jobs overseas in Ohio, despite the company saying they had no such plans.


Google is quite useful. It has a feature where you can pick a date range to search. 2000-2011 before Romney really got into full swing.

What do we find... 2008
http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2008/10/indian-firm-confirms-talks-with.html

In a few years time, your "All-American Jeep" maybe manufactured in India if Chrysler LLC gets its way and finishes a deal with Indian contract auto manufacturing firm, Argentum Motors. But unlike this past weekend's reports about a possible merger between Chrysler LLC and GM that were never actually ratified (see details here), this story has been officially confirmed by the head of corporate communications for Argentum Motors, Colonel Bhagwati Prasad Suman. -Continued
Suman told Just-Auto that Argentum Motors is currently in negotiations with the Chrysler Group about an outsourced manufacturing deal adding that the Indian firm is busy retooling its plant to assemble larger vehicles.


So yeah, they had plans. For how long? Well, seems all the back in 2004.
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2004/0816/058.html

The two sides made it official a few days later with an eight-year agreement that has the potential to radically change the way Chrysler--and all automakers--build vehicles, finance their factories and manage labor. The main idea: Let others shoulder the capital and labor costs of building a car. Rather than buy parts and the machinery to assemble them into vehicles, Chrysler will outsource 60% of the production responsibility for a new Jeep Wrangler--and many of the factory jobs--to its suppliers. Those companies will have to put up the capital for machinery and pay the workers. By enlisting suppliers as partners, Chrysler will shed one-third of the $900 million capital investment for the new Jeep factory.


You mentioned overseas... But what you really meant to say was 'china'. And well as far as I can tell. It's the same case.

http://www.rrstar.com/blogs/chucksweeny/x255960089/Romney-tells-Jeep-outsourcing-lie

Problem for Romney is, Chrysler is not moving Jeep production to China. Rather, it is planning to resume production of Jeeps in China -- for the growing Chinese market.


Okay, so Jeep is not MOVING to china officially. They are just continuing the 12 year practice of 'outsourcing production'.

It will be beneficial to Chrysler to have the vehicles manufactured in India and China for those markets. Technically like Toyota manufacturing in US.

I don't see a lie. Well.. other then the refusal to acknowledge the truth that Jeep is expanding overseas.
 Neopoli
Joined: 3/1/2011
Msg: 212
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/29/2012 11:06:38 PM

So your idea of an adult is the mittster? Hahahahaha! A man who as governor, said he fostered bi-partisanship! When in reality he vetoed 844 bills, but had about 750 of them overridden.


...& most of them were spending bills. That seems to be the only bills Democrats sponsored. Thats how he balanced the budget as governor.

I want someone to cut spending now, & cut it more than Obama has cut it. Can Romney do it? He sez he can. His actions as governor prove it to me. Since thats the only choice I have at the moment, Sounds good to me.

These are the facts, in his own words:
"I like vetoes; I vetoed hundreds of spending appropriations as governor," he said.

How many presidents since the second world war can claim that?
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 213
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/30/2012 7:49:44 AM
"Google is quite useful" Indeed, yes it is....

"Before Romney got into full swing"
Well then your date range is WRONG! 2000-2011 is wrong, his mittness has been gearing to run for national office since around the Olympics he was involved, maybe earlier than that...it's part of his neurosis about his father.

"Well they had plans. Seems all the back in 2004"

Do you mean around the time mittser's group were sending jobs to china, while he still owned 100% of the company? Or when shrub was in office and offshoring was the word of the day?

"They are just continuing the 12 year practice of 'outsourcing production'"

Are you now suffering from mittnomania? That condition allows you to be on both sides of an issue and not see the lie in it! Hate to drag out the dreaded FACTS! Mitt said "Let detroit go bankrupt"! Now meybe GM "might" have emerged froma bankryptcy a tiny company that made a few models. Chrysler, which was owned by Cerubus, a money company much like Bain, would not have.

They would have been shot to shit...in all likelihood, ALL production would have left the country. Instead of still making any jeeps here. Mitt's ad is implying that all production will leave the USA, same lie he told in Ohio, when he jumped the gun(usual for his mittness).

You guys all have to get on the same page. Hahahaha! Either it's a good thing for business to expand(overseas or not) you know, less regs, less govement...or it's wrong for a single job to leave the USA...you can't stand for both...

"I don't see a lie"

How could you? You like his mittness, and hate Obama...so anything he says is OK with you, so long as he wins...if he doesn't I imagine, a bunch will refute their earlier positions...

All I know is i mittster loses, I wouldn't want to be that dog, or one of his servants...he will be cranky...a CEO denied what he wanted! Hahahahaha!
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 214
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/30/2012 7:58:33 AM
@Neopoli


I want someone to cut spending now, & cut it more than Obama has cut it.


This is about as naive as it gets! Just wait till you see which group of citizens he's gonna cut from!



Can Romney do it? He sez he can.


Oh he'll do it alright!

he'll cut from Social security! But he won't cut tax breaks on the mega wealthy.
he'll cut from Medicare; But he won't cut tax breaks on the wealthy
He'll cut Medicaid; but he won't cut tax breaks on the wealthy
He'll gut FEMA and other vital federal programs; but he won't cut taxes breaks on the wealthy
He'll cut Obama care, and has nothing to replace it with; But he won't cut tax breaks for wealthy

Him and his ilk, pay 13% on their earnings (and will be even less if he gets his way), while all the working stiffs will pay anywhere from 21 to 35%, or higher.


These are the facts, in his own words:
"I like vetoes; I vetoed hundreds of spending appropriations as governor," he said.


and he'll never veto tax cuts for the elite; Btw, you should learn what MR's definition of spending is, and who it applies to; ask him if he's gonna cut spending on the Military for weaponry that the Joint chiefs of staff say we don't need!


How many presidents since the second world war can claim that?


Open your eyes, man.
 ORALROBERT2
Joined: 10/18/2012
Msg: 215
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/30/2012 8:35:33 AM
More class envy. Failure in a competitive society is not the fault of Skip Romney.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 216
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/30/2012 10:08:05 AM
^


Failure in a competitive society...


Wake up! This is not a competitive society (hasn't been one for a long time) anymore!; Its a society where the opulent & elite have slowly tilted the proverbial playing field well in their favor, and are bent on keeping it that way by controlling & manipulating the politicians.
 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 217
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History
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/30/2012 10:31:50 AM
Romney and his unending lies...


Mr. Romney, in Defiance, Ohio, last week, told supporters: “One of the great manufacturers in this state, Jeep, now owned by the Italians, is thinking of moving all production to China. I will fight for every good job in America.” Wall Street Journal


^^^Let's see 2 massive lies in the above-listed quote. In this post I'll deal with one of them.


1.) The truth from Chrysler from days ago now....


Shortly before Mr. Romney spoke, Chrysler’s chief spokesman, Gualberto Ranieri, had written on the company’s blog that Chrysler had no intention of shifting U.S. Jeep production to China.


“Despite clear and accurate reporting,” Mr. Ranieri wrote, “the take has given birth to a number of stories making readers believe that Chrysler plans to shift all Jeep production to China from North America, and therefore idle assembly lines and U.S. workforce. It is a leap that would be difficult even for professional circus acrobats."

--Wall Street Journal – Oct 29, 2012


^^^It's pretty appalling that he would lie about a huge job builder and American company affecting the livelihood of millions, by trying to ‘rattle the electorate’ suggesting that Chrysler isn’t keeping jobs there commitments to build jobs here. Mitt Romney: clearly not a supporter of the American worker or the American turnaround success story which Chrysler clearly is.

Romney's reckless Jeep ad has frightened so many workers who now believe that they're losing jobs it has prompted Chrysler Chairman and CEO Sergio Marchionne, to write in the Detroit Times today the following letter on Jeep production:



Chrysler Group's production plans for the Jeep brand have become the focus of public debate. I feel obliged to unambiguously restate our position: Jeep production will not be moved from the United States to China.

North American production is critical to achieving our goal of selling 800,000 Jeep vehicles by 2014. In fact, U.S. production of our Jeep models has nearly tripled (it is expected to be up 185%) since 2009 in order to keep up with global demand.
We also are investing to improve and expand our entire U.S. operations, including our Jeep facilities. The numbers tell the story:

We will invest more than $1.7 billion to develop and produce the next generation Jeep SUV, the successor of the Jeep Liberty -- including $500 million directly to tool and expand our Toledo Assembly Complex and will be adding about 1,100 jobs on a second shift by 2013.

At our Jefferson North Assembly Plant, where we build the Jeep Grand Cherokee, we have created 2,000 jobs since June 2009 and have invested more than $1.8 billion.

In Belvidere, where we build two Jeep models, we have added two shifts since 2009 resulting in an additional 2,600 jobs.

With the increase in demand for our vehicles, especially Jeep branded vehicles, we have added more than 11,200 U.S. jobs since 2009.

Plants producing Jeep branded vehicles alone have seen the number of people invested in the success of the Jeep brand grow to more than 9,300 hourly jobs from 4,700.

This will increase by an additional 1,100 as the Liberty successor, which will be produced in Toledo, is introduced for global distribution in the second quarter of 2013.

Together, we are working to establish a global enterprise and previously announced our intent to return Jeep production to China, the world's largest auto market, in order to satisfy local market demand, which would not otherwise be accessible. Chrysler Group is interested in expanding the customer base for our award-winning Jeep vehicles, which can only be done by establishing local production. This will ultimately help bolster the Jeep brand,and solidify the resilience of U.S. jobs.

Jeep is one of our truly global brands with uniquely American roots. This will never change. So much so that we committed that the iconic Wrangler nameplate, currently produced in our Toledo, Ohio plant, will never see full production outside the United States.
Jeep assembly lines will remain in operation in the United States and will constitute the backbone of the brand.
It is inaccurate to suggest anything different.

The Detroit News ----October 30, 2012


 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 218
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History
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/30/2012 10:51:43 AM
Unending Lies -- continued.

2.) Mitt Romney’s lie about fighting for every good job in America…

His ‘day job’ has been largely about outsourcing US jobs for the private equity company he is part owner in, Bain Capital. But in a nutshell it's about restructuring often good companies as well as poorly performing, and taking people's fair living wages that support families, and moving those opportunites oversees so that someone in China or elsewhere can be paid $0.99 per hour typically working 12 hour days with no benefits, and the savings going back to the PE company and it's investors. Good if you're investing....bad for jobs period.


Mitt Romney is basing his presidential campaign largely on his success as a businessperson building Bain Capital into a leading private equity company.


.... it is important to understand that Mr. Romney is not a successful business person in the same way as other people who have built successful companies.

There are many prominent business people who devoted their lives to building up large companies that produced tangible products or provided services that had considerable value. Steve Jobs name would be the first one on anyone's list. Bill Gates deserves credit for Microsoft's growth. In an earlier era, we can point to people like Henry Ford; Andrew Carnegie, who started the forerunner to U.S. steel; and John D. Rockefeller, who started the forerunner to Exxon-Mobil.

None of these people were saints. Ford, Carnegie and Rockefeller, had no qualms about violently suppressing workers' efforts to form unions. Rockefeller and Gates virtually wrote the textbook on monopolistic practices. And Apple is almost as well-known for its creative tax avoidance strategies as its innovative products.

But each of these people could take credit for building companies that produced wealth. That is not the case with Mitt Romney.

Private equity companies like Bain Capital are not primarily about producing wealth. They profit largely by siphoning off wealth created elsewhere in the economy. There are many different ways in which this diversion of wealth is accomplished.

The simplest and most common trick is gaming the tax code. It is absolutely standard practice for private equity companies to immediately load up the companies they acquire with debt. This has two benefits for the PE company. First, it allows them to get most of their money back right away. They end up with a heavily leveraged company, where the PE company is still in control, but has little of its own money at risk.

The other benefit is that the interest on the debt, unlike dividends paid out to shareholders, is tax deductible. This means that even if the PE company does nothing to improve the operations of a company it acquires, it will increase its profitability by reducing its taxes.

....

It's not just the tax code that PE companies game. By loading the companies they acquire up with debt, PE firms like Bain make them much more vulnerable to bankruptcy. While the creditors who lent the acquired company money presumably understood the risk, there are often many inadvertent creditors such as suppliers, landlords, and even workers through their pension. (The debt is always held by the acquired company not by Bain, which carries no risk beyond its limited investment.) If a Bain-owned company goes under, these inadvertent creditors can take big losses. In the case of pensions, part of the loss will come back to the taxpayer through the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation.

PE companies like Bain also profit by breaking implicit promises made by the companies they acquire.
....
Many small businesses would be reluctant to renege on their side of the bargain and shut down a factory. PE firms like Bain, don't feel bound in the same way.

Similarly, there is often a sense of reciprocity between workers and employers where workers understand that if they work hard in their younger years and acquire firm-specific skills, their employer will keep them on the payroll in their older years when they may not be as productive. This can be a profitable long-term strategy. However, a PE company like Bain, that doesn't care about the long-term, can break the second half of this deal for sizable short-term profits. Rolling Stone - August 2012



....what people need to understand about private equity firms like Bain is that they are not in the business of turning around companies and creating jobs.
...
If you invest in a Bain or a Carlyle or a KKR takeover deal, you’re not betting on the future success of whatever company they took over. You're betting on the ability of those firms to make money on the deal, which may – or, just as importantly, may not – involve turning the target company around.

It's hard to imagine anything that's dumber, from the standpoint of trying to grow a business, than taking out a billion-dollar loan to pay a dividend – one buddy of mine on Wall Street used the word "retarded" – but for a private equity firm and its investors, that might very well be a smart way to get your investors paid.
....

The interests of PE firms and their investors do not coincide with the companies that have been taken over, not in the way that Romney and his adherents would have you believe. In fact, they're often at cross-purposes. You invest in a PE deal to make money – not to grow businesses. And not to create jobs. ---Huffington Post Sept 2012



I personally could never overtly associated with an industry that guts or exploits families as it's sole reason for being. Surely to God there are better ways to earn one's living?

Somehow because of his 'work' in 'leveraging the deal', this is supposed to be ‘qualify’ him a business person that knows how to build jobs.

Let's look at Mitt Romney’s only ‘record of job creation’ such as it is:


Massachusetts ranked 47 out of the 50 states in job creation during Mr. Romney's tenure as governor, from 2003-2007, according to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

In the four years before Mr. Romney took office, Massachusetts ranked 35th, and in the four years after he left, the state improved to 11th, according to calculations by the nonpartisan Massachusetts Taxpayers Foundation. ---Wall Street Journal June 12, 2012
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 219
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/30/2012 10:53:05 AM
Sweetest, your wasting keystrokes and your figurative breath, trying to reason with the unreasonable!

The Romney campaign began post convention with the first ad, being a LIE! It cited a statement by Obama, but left out the intent, of his words, in addressing a remark to McCain, in his 2008 campaign. Why should they change from lies now?

This is simply another cannard, in a long list of them.

Another version of the "I am no crook" from republicans...even though they are. They will lie, cheat and try to steal the election if not by lie, than by voter suppression...it's only right. In their world view, as stated clearly by one of their leaders McConnell, "Make Obama a one term president"..even before they knew what he would do.
 Neopoli
Joined: 3/1/2011
Msg: 220
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/30/2012 11:07:37 AM

Massachusetts ranked 47 out of the 50 states in job creation during Mr. Romney's tenure as governor, from 2003-2007, according to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

In the four years before Mr. Romney took office, Massachusetts ranked 35th, and in the four years after he left, the state improved to 11th, according to calculations by the nonpartisan Massachusetts Taxpayers Foundation. ---Wall Street Journal June 12, 2012


^^^Stop listening to these 3 or 4 hand puppets who hand-pick certain itemized factoids out of context of the entire grouping in order to support an agenda & just check the facts for yourself from a reputable non-agendist site. You'll start to see a pattern.




Massachusetts’ job growth ranking improved year to year under Romney. As we wrote in an item this week when an Obama ad claimed Massachusetts “fell” to 47th under Romney, in the 12 months before he took office, the state ranked 50th in job creation. That ranking remained 50th during Romney’s first year in office, but by his final year, it had improved to 28th.


www.factcheck.org/2012/06/romneys-jobs-record-is-best-or-worst/
 Paul K
Joined: 3/10/2006
Msg: 221
view profile
History
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/30/2012 11:35:45 AM
The fact tht obama is lying about how many jobs were created is nothing new.......... however, the following, from ABC News is interesting......... here we have a sitting president basically telling private enterprise what to do, so he has a better chance at re-election:


"By Mary Bruce
@marykbruce

Jake Tapper
@jaketapper

Defense contractor Lockheed Martin heeded a request from the White House today — one with political overtones — and announced it will not issue layoff notices to thousands of employees just days before the November presidential election.

Lockheed, one of the biggest employers in the key battleground state of Virginia, previously warned it would have to issue notices to employees, required by law, due to looming defense cuts set to begin to take effect after Jan. 2 because of the failure of the Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction — the so-called Super-committee, which was created to find a way to cut $1.5 trillion from the federal deficit over the next decade.

Such massive layoffs could have threatened Obama’s standing in the state he won in 2008 and is hoping to carry again this November.

On Friday, the Obama administration reiterated that federal contractors should not issue notices to workers based on “uncertainty” over the pending $500 billion reduction in Pentagon spending that will occur unless lawmakers can agree on a solution to the budget impasse, negotiations over which will almost definitely not begin until after the election.

Contractors had been planning to send out notices because of the WARN Act — Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification Act — which according to the Department of Labor requires “most employers with 100 or more employees to provide notification 60 calendar days in advance of plant closings and mass layoffs.”

In a statement Friday, GOP Senators John McCain, Lindsey Graham and Kelly Ayotte accused Obama of putting “his own reelection ahead of the interests of working Americans and our national security by promising government contractors that their salary and liability costs will be covered at taxpayer expense if they do not follow the law that requires advance warning to employees of jobs that may be lost due to sequestration. … Apparently, President Obama puts politics ahead of American workers by denying them adequate time to plan their finances and take care of their families. The people who work in the defense industry and other government contracting companies deserve as much notice as possible that they are on track to lose their jobs.”

In July the Labor Department issued legal guidance making clear that federal contractors are not required to provide layoff notices 60 days in advance of the potential Jan. 2 sequestration order, and that doing so would be inconsistent with the purpose of the WARN Act.

In Friday’s memo, the Office of Management and Budget reiterated that notice, urging agencies’ contracting officials and CFOs to “minimize the potential for waste and disruption associated with the issuance of unwarranted layoff notices.”

The guidance issued Friday told contractors that if the automatic cuts happen and contractors lay off employees the government will cover certain liability and litigation costs in the event the contractor is later sued because it hadn’t provided adequate legal warning to its employees, but only if the contractor abides by the administration’s notice and refrains from warning employees now.

After “careful review” Lockheed announced today that it will abide by the administration’s guidance.

“We will not issue sequestration-related WARN notices this year,” Lockheed announced in a written statement. “The additional guidance offered important new information about the potential timing of DOD actions under sequestration, indicating that DOD anticipates no contract actions on or about 2 January, 2013, and that any action to adjust funding levels on contracts as a result of sequestration would likely not occur for several months after 2 Jan. The additional guidance further ensures that, if contract actions due to sequestration were to occur, our employees would be provided the protection of the WARN Act and that the costs of this protection would be allowable and recoverable.

“We remain firm in our conviction that the automatic and across-the-board budget reductions under sequestration are ineffective and inefficient public policy that will weaken our civil government operations, damage our national security, and adversely impact our industry. We will continue to work with leaders in our government to stop sequestration and find more thoughtful, balanced, and effective solutions to our nation’s challenges,” Lockheed said.

– Jake Tapper and Mary Bruce



This is NOT an annonymous article that can't be verified. The trouble for obama now is that ABC used to be one of his most stalwart supporters........ How DARE they run an article such as this????


Paul K
 Neopoli
Joined: 3/1/2011
Msg: 222
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/30/2012 11:42:10 AM

Mr. Romney, in Defiance, Ohio, last week, told supporters: “One of the great manufacturers in this state, Jeep, now owned by the Italians, is thinking of moving all production to China. I will fight for every good job in America.” Wall Street Journal



& so did EVERYONE ELSE who read the original Bloomberg story. Here it is...1st paragraph.


Fiat Says Jeep Output May Return to China as Demand Rises

By Craig Trudell - 2012-10-22

Fiat SpA (F), majority owner of Chrysler Group LLC, plans to return Jeep output to China and may eventually make all of its models in that country, according to the head of both automakers’ operations in the region.

Fiat is in “very detailed conversations” with its Chinese partner, Guangzhou Automobile Group Co. (2238), about making Jeeps in the world’s largest auto market, said Mike Manley, chief operating officer of Fiat and Chrysler in Asia. Chrysler hasn’t built Jeeps there since before Fiat took control in 2009.

“The volume opportunity for us is very significant,” Manley, who is also president of the Jeep brand, said in an interview at Chrysler’s Auburn Hills, Michigan, headquarters. “We’re reviewing the opportunities within existing capacity” as well as “should we be localizing the entire Jeep portfolio or some of the Jeep portfolio.”

Chrysler, which entered an alliance with Turin, Italy-based Fiat as part of its U.S. government-backed bankruptcy, is relying on growth in China to counter weakness in Europe’s auto market. The automaker is targeting 500,000 annual sales outside North America by 2014, more than triple its overseas deliveries in 2009.

Chrysler currently builds all Jeep SUV models at plants in Michigan, Illinois and Ohio. Manley referred to adding Jeep production sites rather than shifting output from North America to China.

>
>

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-21/fiat-says-china-may-build-all-jeep-models-as-suv-demand-climbs.html

Anybody else get any other idea OTHER than that JEEP production is eventually moving to China after reading that Bloomberg story???

The story was reported Oct 22. Romney spoke of it the next day or 2. The official retraction & correction of the story didnt happen until a few days After that.

Chrysler-Fiat now sez they meant that their plan is...instead of exporting US-made Jeeps to China, they are now saying that all Jeeps sold in China would be built in China....not built & exported from plants here in the US. Whew!!! Way to use bailout $$$ to save those US jobs!!!

Im curious if anybody else wonders why billions of taxpayer $$$ were spent to shore up a company....so it could be sold to a foreign entity who profits from shifting potential US production to CHINA??????


Romney was right....let them go bankrupt & restructure. A simple bankruptcy & restructuring would have accomplished the same thing - for free.

 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 223
view profile
History
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/30/2012 11:45:40 AM


Best on Jobs, or Worst?

The Romney ad claims that as governor of Massachusetts, “Romney had the best jobs record in a decade.” Well, best or the worst, depending on how you want to measure it.

The Romney campaign bases its claim on the fact that during Romney’s four years in office, Massachusetts added a net 49,100 jobs (an increase of about 1.5 percent). In the four years under Romney’s predecessor, Republican Jane Swift, the state added 19,000 jobs (an increase of 0.59 percent). In the next four years under Romney’s successor, Democrat Deval Patrick, Massachusetts lost a net 66,400 jobs (a decrease of 2.03 percent).

But that ignores national employment trends that largely drive state employment. In particular, it ignores the national recessions both before and after Romney was in office.

So how did Massachusetts do compared with other states? As the Obama campaign has repeatedly noted, Massachusetts ranked 47th out of 50 states over the entirety of Romney’s four years as governor in terms of job creation. By comparison, Massachusetts ranked 37th in job growth under Swift, and it ranked 10th in Patrick’s first term.

By that measure, Romney had the worst record in a decade.

The Romney campaign has pushed back against that statistic, noting that Massachusetts’ job growth ranking improved year to year under Romney. As we wrote in an item this week when an Obama ad claimed Massachusetts “fell” to 47th under Romney, in the 12 months before he took office, the state ranked 50th in job creation. That ranking remained 50th during Romney’s first year in office, but by his final year, it had improved to 28th.

....

Unemployment Tracks National Rate

The ad claims Romney “reduced unemployment to just 4.7 percent.” It’s true, according to unemployment data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, that the unemployment rate in Massachusetts was 5.6 percent when Romney took office in January 2003, and it was 4.6 percent when he left office in January 2007.

But again, that’s not nearly as impressive when viewed against the nation’s unemployment record at the time. Massachusetts’ unemployment rate was slightly lower than the national unemployment rate of 5.8 percent when Romney took office and was roughly the same as the national rate when he left office.

About Those Fees …

Finally, the ad claims Romney “balanced every budget, without raising taxes.” Massachusetts’ Constitution requires a yearly balanced budget, so the boast isn’t — or shouldn’t be — that Romney balanced the budget every year. Rather, it’s that he did it without raising taxes.

It’s true that Romney never raised personal income taxes as governor. But as we have noted repeatedly, Romney increased government fees by hundreds of millions of dollars, and he also closed loopholes on some corporate taxes (a fact we have noted whenever Romney has claimed he did not raise taxes as governor).

As we wrote in 2007 when Romney was making his first presidential bid, Romney in 2003 doubled fees for court filings (which include marriage licensing fees), professional registrations and firearm licenses.

Romney also quintupled the per gallon delivery fee for gasoline.

All told, the fees raised more than $400 million in their first year. Romney also “closed loopholes” in the corporate tax structure, a move that generated another $150 million in increased revenue.

In addition, Romney cut aid to local cities and counties.

In 2004, Romney cut nearly 5 percent, or about $230 million, from the local aid budget.

The Massachusetts Municipal Association, representing the state’s cities and towns, saidRomney’s cut “forced communities statewide to cut services and raise local taxes and fees.”


Factcheck.org
 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 224
view profile
History
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/30/2012 11:50:16 AM
On OCTOBER 30, 2012 contrary to the lies of Mitt Romney.

Chrysler Chairman & CEO, Sergio Marchionne in an open letter to the Detroit News Oct 30, 2012

Jeep assembly lines will remain in operation in the United States and will constitute the backbone of the brand.
It is inaccurate to suggest anything different.



'Nuff said.
 Neopoli
Joined: 3/1/2011
Msg: 225
Obama/Romney...the world is wondering.
Posted: 10/30/2012 11:54:01 AM

So how did Massachusetts do compared with other states? As the Obama campaign has repeatedly noted, Massachusetts ranked 47th out of 50 states over the entirety of Romney’s four years as governor in terms of job creation. By comparison, Massachusetts ranked 37th in job growth under Swift, and it ranked 10th in Patrick’s first term.

By that measure, Romney had the worst record in a decade.


???????
OK..Ill bite. By THAT cherry-picked measure.

But by this measure, he had the BEST record:


~The Romney campaign bases its claim on the fact that during Romney’s four years in office, Massachusetts added a net 49,100 jobs (an increase of about 1.5 percent).
~In the four years under Romney’s predecessor, Republican Jane Swift, the state added 19,000 jobs (an increase of 0.59 percent).
~In the next four years under Romney’s successor, Democrat Deval Patrick, Massachusetts lost a net 66,400 jobs (a decrease of 2.03 percent).

factcheck.org

??????

Or, to put it another way, Republican Romney had a better net jobs record than the Republican governor who preceeded him, & he also had a better record than the Democratic governor who replaced him.


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