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 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 76
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Balanced media coverage...Page 4 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)

Look I did a quick search online, for the names of companies, mea culpa for getting one wrong.

Well... you got TWO wrong for sure... KB Toys was purchased by Bain in 2000 (after Romney had left) and didn't go into liquidation until December 2008.As far as how much control Romney exerted on Bain after he left for the Olympics is nothing but pure speculation.

The site where you found those three company names obviously only wanted to paint a negative picture of Romney. The fact that they had to LIE in order to paint that image tells me that the TRUTH is nowhere near as negative. Unless you find some real evidence I have no reason to believe your Gordon Gekko characterization of him is anything but hot air.

They would purchase a majority stake in a company for 2 or 300 million in some cases...BUT only put up 8 or 10 million of their own money, and borrow the rest. That means they got control of a company for 3 0r 4% of the total of the investment.

Okay... I can see how this could happen ONCE and the execs of Bain could walk away with their pockets stuffed full of borrowed money while the company they bought declared bankruptcy. After they pulled that stunt once you'd think they'd have a hell of a time attracting investors again.

These are the kind of questions that occur to me when I read about many of the nasty stories (an overstatement... really just nasty inuendo; no specifics given at all) about Bain Capital. When the story doesn't seem to make sense it's usually not true.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 77
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Balanced media coverage...
Posted: 11/17/2012 1:19:55 PM

They would purchase a majority stake in a company for 2 or 300 million in some cases...BUT only put up 8 or 10 million of their own money, and borrow the rest. That means they got control of a company for 3 0r 4% of the total of the investment.

Okay... I can see how this could happen ONCE and the execs of Bain could walk away with their pockets stuffed full of borrowed money while the company they bought declared bankruptcy. After they pulled that stunt once you'd think they'd have a hell of a time attracting investors again.


Ah, no, you have that exactly wrong. If Bain walked away from wrecking a company with full pockets, then that would mean that they filled the pockets of the investors as well. Therefore, your suggestion that Bain is proven innocent by dint of still being in business is ludicrous.

I don't myself know what went on at Bain. The only problems I had with Mitt regarding it, is that he is said to have claimed to have left the company while he was still officially on paper as running it. That would speak ill of Romney, and not Bain.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 78
Balanced media coverage...
Posted: 11/17/2012 1:51:55 PM
and this is simply because of the vast majority of "journalists" are leftists.


You do not even know what a leftist is...I am sure not one major news outlet employs members of the socialist or communist parties...in spite of what you may think.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 79
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Balanced media coverage...
Posted: 11/17/2012 2:18:48 PM
http://www.examiner.com/article/surge-bankruptcy-filings-since-election-day

Looks like about 17 companies filed for bankruptcy...

Not all because of labor and obama directly. Nothing in place is stopping any of this. The only thing that is growing is Union Pensions and Goverment handouts. They are collapsing the economy on purpose.

Will this be the next large one
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2012/nov/13/pinnacle-strikes-deal-with-delta-giving-it-more/?CID=happeningnow

http://www.examiner.com/article/wal-mart-workers-protest-company-responds-filing-unfair-labor-practice-charge

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2234408/Thanksgiving-travel-chaos-looms-thousands-LAX-workers-threaten-strike.html

What isn't reported is information relevant to claims made by strikers and validity or pervasiveness.
Everyone paints the companies as bad companies that are enslaving people. It is all one-sided progressive. No other viewpoints are permitted.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 80
Balanced media coverage...
Posted: 11/17/2012 2:22:57 PM
I was trying to avoid all this, but some folks seem to have an issue with research. I for my part was trying to make a point and not give an education. I guess there must be TWO versions of google, since on mine I found the information readily available...I guess the conservative version has mitt holding flowers with little birds tweeting about his head!

You keep saying AFTER romney left...HE OWNED THE COMPANY...because he didn't manage it, does that mean as an owner he didn't know what was going on? Hey, how many things do you own, that you know nothing about?

KB Toys was purchased BY a romney OWNED company...do you think he didn't receive any of the profit?????

As for Stage Stores, the romney boys putup $10 million, and saddled the group with over $400 million in debt. They filed for bankruptcy in 2000. Now perhaps they emerged out the other side, though I'm sure some people lost money on that debt...aside from all the jobs lost....

We can add Ampad to that list, Bain put up $5 million as their share, borrowed a whole chunk of money...Bain sold it's stake in an IPO a few years later...then a few years after that it filed bankruptcy collapsing on the debt Bain had acquired for the company costing them about $50 million just in debt service...

All the while charging the company fees...HUGE FEES...for arranging the debt(something the company didn't ask for), telling them who to layoff to pay the debt service...and finally $2 million to arrange the IPO!

Look not all private equity is bad...but it is predatory in nature...few investors of this type offer money without strings on the company...it's a form of Battan march...across a desert, with the minimum to survive...if you make it GREAT! You are part of a winning company, and the group that financed it make a HUGE profit...

As for "I can see how this could happen ONCE"

Well then you have no idea of how the world of credit works...there are literally 10's of thousands of investors looking for a better than 1% return which is the current equivelant of t-bills... The banks don't hold the paper, that's what they have their brokers for...to sell it to OTHER investors...

There are all sorts of tricks, fees, dividend recapitalazations, tax deductions(which fall under the home mortgage clause of the tax tables) and a bunch of other things...perhaps some reading would help...or watch a funny moive with a not so funny point...Other Peoples Money starring Danny Devito...

Now frankly I don't care whether you believe me or not...You have your opinion of mitt and I think magic underpants is a crook, using loopholes and bending the rules where he can....

You love him? Invite him up to Canada and see how many companies he can screw there...
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 81
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Balanced media coverage...
Posted: 11/17/2012 4:04:53 PM

but some folks seem to have an issue with research.

No , I'm not the greatest at double checking everyones arguments' to make sure they're all factually correct. The odd time I do check... if I see that someone is incorrect in two out of three examples they use to make their argument, I'll say something. I don't take it upon myself to go and find more examples to make their point for them.

You love him? Invite him up to Canada

Not at all... so far I'm fairly pleased with the guy who's running things up here... have no idea if Romney could do as good a job... quite possibly he'd do much worse. I'm just here killing time on a Saturday afternoon... I never had any self delusions that anything I said was going to make a whit of difference before your election... certainly not after.

If you ever catch me smearing Obama with a bunch of unsubstantiated tripe, I'm certain I'll be taken to task for it.
 woobytoodsday
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 82
Balanced media coverage...
Posted: 11/18/2012 1:51:42 PM
About Stage Stores: http://coopgeek.wordpress.com/2012/08/27/after-bain-capital-buyout-and-closure-wyoming-town-got-organized/

About CBS, and those documents. The original charge that the item(s) was typed on a typewriter that didn't exist then, has been proved abundantly wrong. The blogger didn't know what he was talking about, but the "Brooks Brothers riot" worked -- it spooked CBS.

About that time, a deposition from the woman who might have typed it was taken (there was some belief that he may have typed it himself). She didn't remember typing it, but she *did* remember clearly that the judgement made in it by her boss was one that she'd heard him voice, more than once.
 earthlingsRevenge
Joined: 10/30/2009
Msg: 83
Balanced media coverage...
Posted: 11/18/2012 3:31:16 PM
For those who are in denial.

According to psychologist and researcher Kevin Dutton in his book “The Wisdom of Psychopaths: What Saints, Spies, and Serial Killers Can Teach Us About Success”, psychopaths disproportionately prefer the C-suite and the journalism field.


The 10 fields with the most psychopaths are:

1. CEO
2. Lawyer
3. Media (TV/radio)
4. Salesperson
5. Surgeon
6. Journalist
7. Police officer
8. Clergyperson
9. Chef
10. Civil servant
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 84
Balanced media coverage...
Posted: 11/18/2012 8:14:48 PM

The 10 fields with the most psychopaths are:

....
3. Media (TV/radio)
....
6. Journalist

Clearly, FOX and Clear Channel "cornered the market" in this regard...
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 85
Balanced media coverage...
Posted: 11/19/2012 6:14:19 AM

Highest on the list of most psychopathic professions are CEOs and lawyers
 woobytoodsday
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 86
Balanced media coverage...
Posted: 11/19/2012 1:14:31 PM
The Bain That Ate Clear Channel
Nov 19, 2012
maha
-->
Obama Administration

This is rich. Clear Channel Communications, associated with such programming wonders as Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh, was taken over by Bain Capital in 2008 had apparently has been disintegrating ever since. Clear Channel is having to lay off staff wholesale to stay afloat. However, last year they were careful to lay people off in small numbers at a time so as not to make Bain Capital look bad.

Let’s hope Mitt at least sends them a cheap Christmas card.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 87
Balanced media coverage...
Posted: 11/19/2012 1:41:29 PM
COMMENTARY Clear Channel Communications (CCMO), the radio station conglomerate, laid off "hundreds" of DJs today in a move that will no doubt lead to the increasing homogenization of radio in the U.S. Indirectly, it's all Mitt Romney's fault. Here's how these dots connect:

You can be forgiven for thinking, like Gawker did, that the layoffs are part of a cost-cutting plan driven by fundamental shifts away from traditional analog media (like FM radio) toward digital streaming media (like Pandora). They're not.

As a business, Clear Channel is doing quite well. It made revenue of $1.6 billion in Q2 2011, up from $1.5 billion the year before. It showed an operating profit of $311 million, from stations such as KTU in New York and KIIS FM in Los Angeles. Clear Channel's problem is that is also had a quarterly interest payments of $359 million -- more than its operating profits. That interest is being paid on a staggering $20 billion in debt.

That debt came from the financing of a buyout of Clear Channel back in 2006. At the time, Clear Channel was also a healthy functioning business -- it had just $8 billion in debt, and saw net income -- real profits after interest payments -- of $691 million for the year on growing revenues of $7 billion.

But that just wasn't good enough for the folks at Bain Capital Partners, the private equity group. Bain and its partners bought Clear Channel at that time, but the buyout loaded the company with roughly $12 billion in more debts -- which still isn't paid off. The debts are so large they threaten the future of the company. About $1 billion in Clear Channel's debt comes due in 2014, and another $10.4 billion comes due in 2016.

While Clear Channel might have a functioning profitable business, it's just not generating enough cash to shrug off nearly $12 billion in loans.

What does this have to do with Republican presidential candidate Romney? He was Bain's CEO through 1999. While he had nothing to do with its disastrous Clear Channel investment he was the founder of Bain and draws many of his life lessons from it.

Bain's interference in Clear Channel is an example of everything that is bad about finance-led capitalism: It takes functional businesses, loads them with debt, and transfers much of their cash in the form of interest payments from the people who are actually creating that value -- DJs, in this case -- to the investment banks who supplied the loans. Banks don't sing, record or broadcast pop hits. Yet they're the only ones who will end up making money from the Bain takeover of Clear Channel.

Let's hope Romney doesn't try something similar with the federal government.


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_162-42750896/is-romney-to-blame-for-hundreds-of-layoffs-at-clear-channel-radio/
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 88
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Balanced media coverage...
Posted: 11/19/2012 5:29:06 PM
I can see this topic has swung wildly off-course.... I suppose from someone elses' perspective this could all be blamed on myself.

In my defense, I was focused on how people who have little to no real knowledge of how Romney conducted his affairs as a businessman want to draw comparisons between him and a fictional character from a movie (an over-the-top one dimensional villian, no less)... people being influenced by MEDIA to think in a certain way.

But now we're really off-course:

But that just wasn't good enough for the folks at Bain Capital Partners, the private equity group. Bain and its partners bought Clear Channel at that time, but the buyout loaded the company with roughly $12 billion in more debts -- which still isn't paid off. The debts are so large they threaten the future of the company. About $1 billion in Clear Channel's debt comes due in 2014, and another $10.4 billion comes due in 2016.

Doesn't even answer my question about how these Bain execs stuffed their pockets full of borrowed money while bankrupting a company. The article DOES indicate that they seem to be doing a poor job running CCMO.

What does this have to do with Republican presidential candidate Romney? He was Bain's CEO through 1999. While he had nothing to do with its disastrous Clear Channel investment he was the founder of Bain and draws many of his life lessons from it.

An admission from the article's author that Romney had nothing to do with Clear Channel... yet somehow in the same sentence wants to paint him with the same brush as Bain. Feels like bias in the media to me.

We've seen plenty of examples of Bain's incompetency in business after Romney left the firm... not so much from when he was running things.

^^^^....and none of this really matters. The election is over, Obama won... how long do you guys want to beat up on Romney?

http://www.cbsnews.com

CBS is fairly mainstream.... no? I think there's some relevance in this.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 89
Balanced media coverage...
Posted: 11/19/2012 6:05:26 PM
For the uninitated, Romney inked a retirement package from Bain, which expired in 2009. Now what does that mean. Well rather than take the company public and ring the register that way, he chose to let the other partners buy him out over time.

Now since Clear Channel was acquired in 2006, romney would have been eligible to participate in that deal. In most instances, when an executive leaves a firm such as this, they receive some cash, and get partner participation for 2 years(approximately, each deal is different, unless like in the case of Black Rock they go public). Instead mitt has participated in 18 of Bain's funds, both onshore and offshore.

There was a NY Times article in 2011 that detailed most of this. At any rate those funds usually have a shelf life of 1 to 2 years...however he is still also allowed to be a Bain investor, even today, just not participate in partner style participation...

Onto to other things..."CBS is fairly mainstream"...well not to those on the right, who see them with a liberal bias. The major 3 networks I think are fairly even in their approach. Certainly to cite something, some may feel untrue. I doubt Bill O'Reilly could anchor a show on CBS, with his baiting of the left.

The major 3 networks are not so much liberal, as they are audience oriented. They want to draw the maximum viewership from the middle. Where I believe most people are. That means no wild eyed rants to either side. Where the problem lies is if you think your cause is being diminished because they won't come out and say things as you believe them to be, you assume they favor the other side.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 90
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Balanced media coverage...
Posted: 11/19/2012 6:30:40 PM

The major 3 networks I think are fairly even in their approach.

How would you describe the tone of the article presented here?... fairly even?

To myself, it's blatantly biased... it's one thing to do a negative piece on Romney... another thing entirely to try and link him to a business deal he has never had any input in. I don't really care that much if someone leans one way or the other politically.... when they start using dishonesty to make their argument is when I stop paying attention.

To be fair, I don't think most of CBS's stories are anywhere near this slanted.... quite often I do detect a slant though... and it's usually to the left.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 91
Balanced media coverage...
Posted: 11/19/2012 6:52:43 PM
By now you know I am far from a Mitt fan. I also am not a fan of this type of firm and business. It is not a business in the true sense of the word, since it is about buying a company to rape it down to it's lowest common denominator, load it with debt, and then jettison it into the world once you have achieved the maximum profit, you could make.

Did I like it, you bet. Did it make me feel good, well vindicated anyway, since it shows the Bain legacy started by romney is alive and well, and still destroying more businesses.

Was it slanted, yes it was. Some of the cracks were unneccessary to prove the point of the article.
 427cammer
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 92
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Balanced media coverage...
Posted: 11/19/2012 7:28:15 PM

It is not a business in the true sense of the word, since it is about buying a company to rape it down to it's lowest common denominator, load it with debt, and then jettison it into the world once you have achieved the maximum profit, you could make.

Yeah, you keep saying this... and you still haven't shown one instance of this happening while Romney was running the company (doesn't sound like this is an accurate picture of what's happening at Clear Channel either).

In fact, for someone who has tried to prop himself up as being knowledgeable about the world of finance, you don't really seem to have an insiders edge at all... you just google up leftist agenda sites just like everyone else.... and then give me hell for not googling them myself.

...and you're dragging me off topic again.

Was it slanted, yes it was. Some of the cracks were unneccessary to prove the point of the article.

Just so we're clear, what is the point of the article?

I see yellow journalism techniques used in an attempt to smear a Presidential candidate before the election... I don't see any proof offered up by the article however... seems to be a running theme.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 93
Balanced media coverage...
Posted: 11/20/2012 5:02:18 AM

Just so we're clear, what is the point of the article?


To show biased journalism...factual, yet, biased. Here's another one:



Forty-to-one leverage is casino capitalism that hugely magnifies gains and losses. Bain Capital wisely chose to flip the company fast: After 18 months, it sold Accuride, converting its $2.6 million sliver of equity into a $61 million capital gain. That deal, which yielded a 1,123 percent annualized return, was critical to Bain Capital’s early success and led the firm to keep maximizing the use of leverage.

In 1992, Bain Capital bought American Pad & Paper by financing 87 percent of the purchase price. In the next three years, Ampad borrowed to make acquisitions, repay existing debt and pay Bain Capital and its investors $60 million in dividends.

As a result, the company’s debt swelled from $11 million in 1993 to $444 million by 1995. The $14 million in annual interest expense on this debt dwarfed the company’s $4.7 million operating cash flow. The proceeds of an initial public offering in July 1996 were used to pay Bain Capital $48 million for part of its stake and to reduce the company’s debt to $270 million.

From 1993 to 1999, Bain Capital charged Ampad about $18 million in various fees. By 1999, the company’s debt was back up to $400 million. Unable to pay the interest costs and drained of cash paid to Bain Capital in fees and dividends, Ampad filed for bankruptcy the following year. Senior secured lenders got less than 50 cents on the dollar, unsecured lenders received two- tenths of a cent on the dollar, and several hundred jobs were lost. Bain Capital had reaped capital gains of $107 million on its $5.1 million investment.

Bain Capital’s acquisition in 1994 of Dade International, a supplier of in-vitro diagnostic products, was 81 percent financed by debt. Of the $85 million in equity, about $27 million came from Bain with the rest coming from a group of investors that included Goldman Sachs Group Inc.

From 1995 to 1999, Bain Capital tripled Dade’s debt from about $300 million to $902 million. Some of the debt was used to pay for acquisitions of DuPont Co.’s in-vitro diagnostics division in May 1996 and Behring Diagnostics, a German medical- testing company, in 1997. But some was used to finance a repurchase of half of Bain Capital’s equity for $242 million -- more than eight times its investment -- and to pay its investors almost $100 million in fees.

Bankruptcy Filing

Dade was left in a weakened financial condition and couldn’t withstand the shocks of increased debt payments when interest rates rose and revenue from Europe fell because of a decline in the value of the euro. The company filed for bankruptcy in August 2002, because of its inability to service a $1.5 billion debt load. About 1,700 people lost their jobs while Bain Capital claimed capital gains (net of its losses in the bankruptcy) of roughly $216 million, an eightfold return.

There are many other examples of this debt-fueled strategy. In the two years following the acquisition in 1993 of GS Industries, a steel mill, for $8 million, Bain Capital increased the company’s debt to $378 million on operating income of less than a 10th of that amount. Some of this was used to pay Bain Capital a $36 million dividend in 1994. That degree of leverage was excessive in light of the cyclicality and capital-intensive nature of the steel industry.

By the time the company went bankrupt in 2001, it owed $554 million in debt against assets valued at $395 million. Many creditors lost money, and 750 workers lost their jobs. The U.S. Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., which insures company retirement plans, determined in 2002 that GS had underfunded its pension by $44 million and had to step in to cover the shortfall.

Bain Capital’s acquisition of Stage Stores, a department- store chain, in 1988 was 96 percent financed by debt (mostly in junk bonds) -- an extreme level for a cyclical and very competitive low-margin business. Bain sold a large part of its stake in 1997 for a $184 million gain, three years before the company filed for bankruptcy because of its inability to service its $600 million debt.

Success, entrepreneurship, risk taking and wealth creation deserve to be celebrated when they are the result of fair play and hard work. President Barack Obama is correct in distinguishing the patient creation of value for the benefit of investors through genuine operational improvements and growth -- the true mission of private equity -- from the form of rigged capitalism that was practiced by some in the industry in the past when debt was cheap and plentiful.

While Bain Capital wasn’t alone in using financial engineering to turbo-charge its returns, it was among the most aggressive under Romney’s leadership. Enriching investors by taking leveraged bets isn’t a qualification for a job requiring long-term vision and concern for public welfare. It is appropriate to point that out to voters.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-15/romney-s-bain-yielded-private-gains-socialized-losses.html
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 94
Balanced media coverage...
Posted: 11/20/2012 10:37:19 AM
"you keep saying this"

Yes I do, despite several examples, of companies and what happened to them, you keep saying things like "doesn't sound like this is an accurate picture" so you are convinced I'm wrong...no problem, you believe what you want, and I will do the same.

I will continue to post what I think is wrong, although I will not bother with mitt, unless someone challenges me, or he runs again for public office. You can do as you please.

"for someone who has tried to prop himself up as being knowledgeable about the world of finance"

So, OK then tell me what is unfactual about the companies I cited, YOU were the one to claim Stage didn't undergo bankruptcy. If someone(iceberg) puts a hole in the boat(titanic) and it sinks after they've gone(iceberg went away), were they not responsible for the sinking?

"you just google up leftist agenda sites just like everyone else"

The only site I mentioned throughout the whole thread, was the 2011 article from the NY Times. Now many times the folks on the right accuse the Times of being leftist, while they lean left to some degree, I find their reporting to be more balanced than other papers. Now you don't have to believe me, half the world considers them a first rate newspaper near the top of the list. So again, you believe what you want, most conservatives do.

"an attempt to smear"

Only if the articles are untrue or unfactual. As all of us must, you have to do your own research, to make sure the facts jibe, and not accept wholeheartedly the feel good "he's a bad guy" POV in any article. Further while you may have a problem with the article, and me. I DIDN'T post the article to which you are referring, I merely commented on it.

"and you're dragging me off topic again"

NO I'M NOT!!! I commented on the article which was posted by someone else. YOU asked my opinion and I gave it. YOU started this debate citing "yellow journalism" or words to that effect, I gave my opinion, which YOU asked for.

Frankly, I'm done with this. You believe what you want, and I will believe what I want. You feel sorry for mitt, send him a sympathy card for not winning the election. Me? I am happy things turned out as they did. And for vindication of my beliefs, his post election comments on gifts, which most conservatives are trying to walk away from, only proves my point. He would have wound up being president of only the top 2% of our country, and shunned the vast majority.

The idea of a "balanced media" goes beyond the articles written. Human nature will always exert itself on individuals. They will write articles tinged with their own POV. As long as the facts are correct, it is then up to YOU, the reader to devine the intent of the individual the article is written about. This takes discernment to know when something is posted or written with an intent to smear or share facts. EVEN THEN, it will be read with your particular brand of beliefs, through one's own rose colored glasses, or in this case yellow journalism colored glasses.
 woobytoodsday
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 95
Balanced media coverage...
Posted: 11/20/2012 12:22:22 PM

Here's how Romney would go about "liberating" a company: A private equity firm like Bain typically seeks out floundering businesses with good cash flows. It then puts down a relatively small amount of its own money and runs to a big bank like Goldman Sachs or Citigroup for the rest of the financing. (Most leveraged buyouts are financed with 60 to 90 percent borrowed cash.) The takeover firm then uses that borrowed money to buy a controlling stake in the target company, either with or without its consent. When an LBO is done without the consent of the target, it's called a hostile takeover; such thrilling acts of corporate piracy were made legend in the Eighties, most notably the 1988 attack by notorious corporate raiders Kohlberg Kravis Roberts against RJR Nabisco, a deal memorialized in the book Barbarians at the Gate.

Romney and Bain avoided the hostile approach, preferring to secure the cooperation of their takeover targets by buying off a company's management with lucrative bonuses. Once management is on board, the rest is just math. So if the target company is worth $500 million, Bain might put down $20 million of its own cash, then borrow $350 million from an investment bank to take over a controlling stake.

But here's the catch. When Bain borrows all of that money from the bank, it's the target company that ends up on the hook for all of the debt.

Now your troubled firm – let's say you make tricycles in Alabama – has been taken over by a bunch of slick Wall Street dudes who kicked in as little as five percent as a down payment. So in addition to whatever problems you had before, Tricycle Inc. now owes Goldman or Citigroup $350 million. With all that new debt service to pay, the company's bottom line is suddenly untenable: You almost have to start firing people immediately just to get your costs down to a manageable level.

"That interest," says Lynn Turner, former chief accountant of the Securities and Exchange Commission, "just sucks the profit out of the company."



http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/greed-and-debt-the-true-story-of-mitt-romney-and-bain-capital-20120829#ixzz2CnQGVBh8
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 96
Balanced media coverage...
Posted: 11/20/2012 12:25:41 PM

I am very curious to see just how happy you will be with how things turned out in about 2 year


Funny...this is the same curiosity that preceeded the SCOTUS decision on PPACA and the same curiosity that preceeded the election...and we now know what those results were....of course the GOP is led by the nose by the Teaparty wingnut evangelicals...who have stiffled any attempt by congress to move this country forward....so, I guess we will see how things go...and hope for a brighter future....one not smoothered by partisan politics.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 97
Balanced media coverage...
Posted: 11/20/2012 12:57:11 PM
My health insurance rates more than DOUBLED, and are probably going to go up at least another 50% in the next YEAR or so.........


PK...while your's may have...that's not what's happened with rates across the board in the great state of California...and of course...there's also the provision in PPACA that an insurance company may keep only 15% for administration, and must rebate back to the policy holders any amount that is less than 85% claims paid...so apparently your company stinks.


i will just let my insurance lapse, and let them pay for it........ after all, no one can refuse me treatment, and once a year pay the paltry fine...


Just another hypocrit looking to sponge off the government tit.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 98
Balanced media coverage...
Posted: 11/20/2012 1:05:48 PM
"What happened to objective journalism"

Oh dang, how much worse will this get? What exactly do you think objective is? Is Fox objective? Objective will mean something quite different to me, than to you. If I can't hear BOTH sides of an issue, then the TV interview or article is biased. If you can't read beyond the feel good nature or slant then you are indeed troubled.

As for "facts", they usually are obtainable in other places, that are readily available(CBO, various studies on facts and figures). Today I saw a liberal talking about the 2nd amendment in support of it. I also support the right to bear arms, for those who want them. This usually results in conservatives explaining how they will never step in when someone is trying to kill me.(as though they would anyway) The facts on gun violence are available without the tinge, through many sites.

Then you must decide for yourself how you think and feel about the issue. What you will vote when referendums on the issue comes up.

"Why bother to read the article in the first place"

Then don't!! It's as simple as that. Only read the articles that make you feel good, or support the position you think is correct...you'll learn a lot by reading only one side of a debate...NOT!!!

Far more of the "liberal media" that I read presents both sides of the issues, than say Rush, O'Reilly and Hannity...but I guess you guys think thats just ducky! hahahaha!

"you will find out that it is GWB's fault that it is mitts fault"

Mitt can't be faulted for anything in the government, he wasn't elected. His followers may exert some influence on issues, but that's not his fault. Life the seccession issue. As for shrub, yeah he doesn't get a buy until the economy is healed. You will never get that. It took him 8 years, of hands off regulation and starving the SEC and bank regulators to arrive at throwing trillions of dollars out the window in 08. You don't like that...tough...take it up with him!

As for Obama, blame him what he does or doesn't do. I don't like drone strikes, or that he didn't close Gitmo, or other policies he has or hasn't followed as closely as he said he would. I have said that on many threads. If you missed those posts, that's on you... same with your opinion of the ACA...this isn't the thread to argue that. But did Obama tell the insurance companies to raise your premiums? No they did that ALLL on their own, in case he takes actions to roll back premium costs...free enterprise...ain't it a b1tch!
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 99
Balanced media coverage...
Posted: 11/20/2012 1:34:55 PM
BS PK...here's an article from 7/2012:


Services51




California Insurance Commissioner Dave Jones (AP Images)

Aetna and Wellpoint subsidiary Anthem Blue Cross as well as Blue Shield have agreed to modify their most recent small group health insurance rate increases in California for the third quarter of 2012 for a total savings of $48 million for small employers, Insurance Commissioner Dave Jones recently announced.

By far the largest premium rate increase withdrawal was Anthem Blue Cross’s of 2.5% July 1 premium increase for small-group preferred provider organization products, resulting in a total savings of approximately $25 million for 45,000 of Anthem Blue Cross's small group policyholders, covering approximately 280,000 individuals.

Anthem had raised rates 4.7% on its small group policyholders in the previous 12 months with its earlier rate increases, the California Insurance Department stated.

Blue Shield Life and Health Co. agreed to provide a credit to 58,000 small employers equivalent to reducing its July 1 third quarter rate increase by 1.5%, resulting in savings of approximately $15 million. As a result of the credit, the effective Blue Shield rate increase will be 1.6%, which is Blue Shield's only small group rate increase for its small employer policyholders in the last 12 months.

Aetna has agreed to lower its proposed small group rate from 2.6% down to 1.3% for its 9,200 policyholders (covering approximately 69,000 individuals), which results in a savings of approximately $8 million for small employers.

http://www.lifehealthpro.com/2012/07/09/california-health-insurers-reduce-rate-increases-t




And another article about Aenta CA




Aetna Hikes Health Insurance Rates For California Small Businesses

April 6, 2012 By Phil Villarreal



(Great Beyond)

Health insurer Aetna has raised its rates for California small business clients considerably, making for an average increase of 8 percent, with some businesses seeing increases of as much as 21 percent. The California State Insurance Commissioner called the hikes “excessive.”

Aetna justified the rate hike, which took effect April 1, to the L.A. Times, saying its rates “are based on actuarially sound data and reasonable projection of future cost.”

In a statement, Aetna pulled out the old “taking it seriously.”



“Aetna takes our commitment to our small-business customers seriously, and we are making every effort to maintain an affordable array of products that provide access to quality healthcare services.”

Despite Aetna’s claims that it profited only 13 cents from every dollar of premiums it took in, the company’s California insurance subsidiary raked in a 27.7 percent profit, which was good enough to funnel dividends of $1.7 billion to the mother ship.

The commissioner is using uproar over the rate increase to rally support for a California ballot measure that would give him the power to reject future health insurance rate changes.

Aetna rate hike is deemed ‘excessive’ by California regulator [L.A. Times]


http://consumerist.com/2012/04/06/aetna-hikes-health-insurance-rates-for-california-small-businesses/
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 100
Balanced media coverage...
Posted: 11/20/2012 2:00:46 PM
I am with Anthem/Bluecross.

In related news:

Anthem/Bluecross made some 4.7billion in profits last year, so clearly they are hurting so bad they need to increase prices just to stay afloat.

So remember kids, when considering the logic of some conservatives;

If you do not like when big business screws you, its the government fault because they caused those corporations to rip you off, but when it comes to controlling corporations from being able to rip you off it is hands off because that is dirty socialism.




4 years ago, I was paying $189.00/month. Today, my rate is over $460.00 a month.......... Now you are telling me that they didn't????? I was very specific that these increases took effect as soon as obamacare was seen on the horizon, and your buddy and fellow comrade stated that was because of the impending obamacare. Do you believe him????

Yep and as previously noted it looks like 4.7billion in profits clears was not enough, though I would speculate your premiums going up have more to do with you being in a high risk category than Obama.

So what do you have against capitalism?

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