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 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 26
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Personal trainers and gymsPage 2 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
You say it's better to do things you enjoy...how about the thousands who ENJOY going to the gym and exercising?


If you enjoy going to the gym, good for you. I can't imagine why anyone would want to use an exercise machine- a treadmill or cycle trainer or rowing machine, as opposed to doing the real thing. If you want to lift weights, do something useful like rearrange your furniture.

Many people see exercise as a chore, it's the reason why there are so many unused gym memberships. These are the people who exercise for the sake of exercise.

In terms of this thread, which is about the cost of going to a gym...if it was so enjoyable, why would the thread author be reluctant to part with a few measly hundred bucks a year to do something they love doing? Many of us spend thousands on cycling and other sports.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 27
Personal trainers and gyms
Posted: 12/9/2012 7:33:42 AM

First, I wasn't referring to any of your statements as ironic, though your opinions on exercise often go against science...

You said: "Ironic also that remarks about skinny legs appear in this thread where heavy squats are useless and dangerous and muscular size is all genetic appear in a different thread..."


...That statement was referring to a different poster...to which I would pose the question. You say it's better to do things you enjoy...how about the thousands who ENJOY going to the gym and exercising?

So it was someone else that made the sarcastic comment about skinny legs?



Heavy squats, in addition to many wonderful hormonal changes, increased bone density, etc, has been shown to increase sprint speed as well as leaping ability.

Know now what else does those things?

Running and Biking.




Increasing one's ability to run and jump isn't 'real world'?

Are you saying that actually running and jumping does not increase ones ability to run and jump?

If all one had to do was gain strength to excel at any athletic pursuit then power lifters would be dominating all athletic purists, but clearly this is not the case and therefore your logic is seriously flawed.

FYI: Out Squat ≠ Out jump or out run, it only means out squat.




let me clarify the first statement...yes, you stating that size is all genetic (presumably as a reason people shouldn't try to use strength training to, well, get stronger since according to you only genetic freaks can add significant muscle, which is untrue, btw) and then stating that outdoor activities develop leg musculature is in fact ironic.

So now you are changing your story again.

Seriously, re-read my comment and try and see the sarcasm.

Then when you are done please provide evidence that states that participating in an activity will not build muscles related to those activities because you seem to be stuck on that point.

Or maybe as I previously noted you just believe regardless what, more is always better and do to understand that these activities do increase your strength and gym training for the average person is not going to make any difference with regards to the sport they are participating it.





As to your statement that not everyone wants to get bigger. That's true. However, most guys who I've met in my life do. I know there are some die hard runners who carry being uber skinny like a badge of honor. I do get the feeling that you have some pretty set ideas about fitness which do not involve any kind of significant strength training and, according to your ideology, anyone who does stress the importance of strength training, especially that under high loads, is a mouth breathing meathead. I would be happy to put you in touch with a great many PhD's who would counter that statement.

Great, have them pop into this thread and off up their opinions as I would be interested in hearing what they have to say.
 billingsmason
Joined: 2/3/2012
Msg: 28
Personal trainers and gyms
Posted: 12/9/2012 11:24:37 AM
Hard for me to understand and have empathy for people who aren't motivated.

As for the gym cost- all you need is a piece of floor to get in great shape. If the cost really was the defining factor..... the op would just get his face on the deck.

Then it turns into a rant on the cost of a personal trainer. The trainers I know, show how to use the equipment, which lifts and moves to use to work very specific parts of the body, and help set up a routine and regimen to achieve the results desired. Diet, exercise and lifestyle changes....

All this means nothing if the trainee has no motivation.
If the motivation is there, there are free resources on the net to show just about any exercise out there, free dieting advice, major lifestyle changes.... you name it.


Moving my furniture around isn't going to help me prepare for carrying a 600lb slab of granite into a kitchen, straight arming buckets of mud up the scaffold, moving the mixer or any of the other things I do on a daily basis. Also not going to challenge my body enough to bring changes that I'd like to see.

I am not motivated by someone thinking of me as a meathead, mental midget, or by stagnant generalized opinions of things that are tried and test true. My motivation comes from personal desire, either for the result, the satisfaction of knowing I can do it, or the fact that I know which way I'm headed..... forward.
Motivation check aye aye sir
 allthegoodnamesrtaken1
Joined: 1/12/2012
Msg: 29
Personal trainers and gyms
Posted: 12/9/2012 11:44:21 AM
Rockinrollman -

Yes, $60 a month does seem a bit pricey. The personal training - Youtube has videos that can walk you through just about anything you can think of - - Free. My own gym membership is $13 a month and a damn good gym. No frills, nor do I need them. For those that do, that's perfectly acceptable.


AA -

I just renewed my membership and it was $517.70/ per year

Then


No one needs a gym or a trainer, as they are luxuries not necessities

Apparently A luxury you deem necessary.


Mr. Pharce -

There needs to be a national certifying body for personal trainers. There are too many individuals who call themselves 'personal trainers' who have absolutely no business doing so

This


Skyr -

Personal trainers and gyms are exercising for the sake of exercising

Subjective statement. My reasons for exercising at the gym say as much.


I think that the concept of a gym is stupid. Smart people do stupid things all time. Poor comprehension skills is correlated with stupidity though

Smart people do indeed do stupid things, giving anytime to this silly thread is probably one of those examples on my part.


AA-

Doing heavy squats increases your ability to do heavy squats, it in no way increase "real world" performance as I am pretty sure that is not even a measurable thing and something you just made up

"Pretty sure" doesn't cut it. Information backing pharce's statement is extraordinary. Google is your friend.


Skyr -

If you want to lift weights, do something useful like rearrange your furniture

I can't stop laughing long enough to post anything appropriate here. Google is your friend Skyr. I can also suggest some fantastic books to start with.



In terms of this thread, which is about the cost of going to a gym...if it was so enjoyable, why would the thread author be reluctant to part with a few measly hundred bucks a year to do something they love doing?

Good question, ask him


AA-

understand that these activities do increase your strength and gym training for the average person is not going to make any difference with regards to the sport they are participating it

Prove it. Cite this statement from a credible source


Elforester -

Nobody enjoys resistance weight training. NOBODY!

I do.


Billingsmason -

If the motivation is there, there are free resources on the net to show just about any exercise out there, free dieting advice, major lifestyle changes.... you name it.

This



Moving my furniture around isn't going to help me prepare for carrying a 600lb slab of granite into a kitchen....Also not going to challenge my body enough to bring changes that I'd like to see

This



I am not motivated by someone thinking of me as a meathead, mental midget, or by stagnant generalized opinions of things that are tried and test true.

This

 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 30
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Posted: 12/9/2012 12:53:38 PM

Subjective statement. My reasons for exercising at the gym say as much.


Sure, it is my subjective opinion that doing the real thing is more fun. I've never claimed otherwise. I despise reality TV, but others think it's the best thing since the electric toothbrush.

There are people who buy gym memberships not because they enjoy going to the gym, but because they see exercise as a primary goal, which is why they don't keep up their membership.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 31
Personal trainers and gyms
Posted: 12/9/2012 2:10:13 PM

Apparently A luxury you deem necessary.

No, a luxury that I am able to justify based on my income and lifestyle, not unlike any other things that would be considered luxuries that I choose to purchase.




Doing heavy squats increases your ability to do heavy squats, it in no way increase "real world" performance as I am pretty sure that is not even a measurable thing and something you just made up

"Pretty sure" doesn't cut it. Information backing pharce's statement is extraordinary. Google is your friend.

I checked Google and no one can tell me what is meant by "real world" performance as it seems to be something some one just made up to prove a non-existent point.

Though saying that his statement is "extraordinary" is laughable at best, as I am pretty sure if you presented an argument with regards to fitness and used the phrase "Real World Performance" you would get laughed out of the room.




understand that these activities do increase your strength and gym training for the average person is not going to make any difference with regards to the sport they are participating it

Prove it. Cite this statement from a credible source

As soon as you show me a study that shows that participating in an activity will not make you better at said activity and that no muscle growth or any development will occur.
 allthegoodnamesrtaken1
Joined: 1/12/2012
Msg: 32
Personal trainers and gyms
Posted: 12/9/2012 3:09:44 PM
^
1. Again - A luxury you deemed necessary. Nothing else needs to be said here.

2.
I checked Google and no one can tell me what is meant by "real world" performance

Google "Real world performance in strength training" I find at least 5 on the first page, why can't you?
Real world performance = Functional carryover.


it seems to be something some one just made up to prove a non-existent point

See above


Though saying that his statement is "extraordinary" is laughable at best, as I am pretty sure if you presented an argument with regards to fitness and used the phrase "Real World Performance" you would get laughed out of the room

The laughter comes when trying to explain you are not familiar with the term Real World Performance and it being
synonymous with Functional carryover; all while trying to debate strength training and overall fitness.

I would be still for a moment, take some time to research the topic completely before posting. Try "Real world performance in strength training" Or "Heavy squats for real world performance"

3. Again - Prove and cite your earlier statement. Nothing more is being debated here.


Skyr -

Would you mind picking up my love seat say, ah, 8-10 reps? How about moving my bookcase across the carpet?
Lift a load of these magazines to build your delts up?

This thread .....shakes head
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 33
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Posted: 12/9/2012 9:25:32 PM

Would you mind picking up my love seat say, ah, 8-10 reps? How about moving my bookcase across the carpet?
Lift a load of these magazines to build your delts up?


I'd rather ride my bike, she doesn't complain.
 Fishing4Marlin
Joined: 10/4/2012
Msg: 34
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Posted: 12/10/2012 2:38:07 AM
Mrpharce said:
Heavy squats, in addition to many wonderful hormonal changes, increased bone density, etc, has been shown to increase sprint speed as well as leaping ability.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22310512

http://libres.uncg.edu/ir/asu/f/Triplett_Travis_2009_Relationship_Between_Maximal.pdf

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/squat.html

Increasing one's ability to run and jump isn't 'real world'?


You beat me to it... the above poster, no offense, is seriously showing some major, major ignorance if you think weight training doesn't transfer to real world athleticism, please find me an Olympic track and field athlete who doesn't weight train.... please? I'd even go so far as to say the majority of bicyclists and marathoners weight train.
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 35
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Posted: 12/10/2012 2:54:09 AM

I'd even go so far as to say the majority of bicyclists and marathoners weight train.


Not this one.

As for generalising, you've come to a conclusion based on three articles, only two of which are studies of sorts (with very low numbers), and a number of confounding variables, and applied to different sports.
 Fishing4Marlin
Joined: 10/4/2012
Msg: 36
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Posted: 12/10/2012 2:57:02 AM
skyr said:
Sure, it is my subjective opinion that doing the real thing is more fun.


I love the gym and weight training, I look forward to it every day. However, I also trail/mountain run/hike, beach run, fast pack trails with a weighted military pack, do regular road work (blacktop running), I go to a hellacious bootcamp that has us running steep hills, squatting and pressing heavy rocks and carrying them up hills. I generally hate all running to be honest, but I do it to be a better athlete and in better condition. Biking and running are great, but not everyone shares the same passions for the same things, to talk smack about one form of training is extremely naieve. The body needs change to adapt and progress, we plateau much easier if we don't change up our regimine.
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 37
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Posted: 12/10/2012 3:09:50 AM

I generally hate all running to be honest, but I do it to be a better athlete and in better condition. Biking and running are great, but not everyone shares the same passions for the same things, to talk smack about one form of training is extremely naieve


That was my point. I don't talk about it as training. I talk about an activity for it's enjoyment value, with exercise as a byproduct. That applies to most non-competitive athletes, who are the ones most likely to join gyms and then see it as a chore in the quest for 'fitness'. Half the people I work with have gym memberships they don't use, and they consider a 10min jog to be exercise.

If you're an elite athlete, sure, training is part of competition. The fact you state you hate running but do it for 'training' proves that you are doing it as a means to an end, rather than the fun of the activity itself.

I was a nationally ranked mountainbiker, a world champion unicyclist, and hold a couple of world records. Could I be a better unicyclist if I go the gym? Maybe (although probably not), but it's not what I want out of my sport.
 Fishing4Marlin
Joined: 10/4/2012
Msg: 38
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Posted: 12/10/2012 3:13:16 AM
skyr said:
Not this one.

referring to me saying the majority of bicyclists weight train.


skyr, I understand that you don't weight train... that is your prerogative, and if you enjoy training the way you do, more power to you, but in order for you not to completely influence a new person interested in cycling, let me counter with a group of cyclists who do weight train...specifically ... squats.

The United States Olympic Cycling team;
http://www.usacycling.org/usa-cycling-announces-2012-olympic-team.htm

Here is a link to the top guys training schedule, which includes squats;
http://www.active.com/cycling/Articles/Improve-Your-Sprint-Finish-With-a-Strength-Workout

Again, I agree do whatever you want to do you'll always be most successful if you do what you love, even if you're a masochist like me.
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 39
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Posted: 12/10/2012 3:52:26 AM
You're misrespresenting everything I've said. I was talking about the artificial environment represented by gyms, and the motivations of non-elite athletes.

If you are 'training' as an elite athlete, you do what it takes to be competitive. I started running to lose weight for my sport, although I actually liked running (but it wasn't my focus).

There may or may not be any evidence base behind what many athletes do. Either way, I'm not sure you can generalise Tejay Van Garderen to the rest of US cycling team. And I'd postulate that the gym workout makes up minute portion of his training schedule.



but in order for you not to completely influence a new person interested in cycling, let me counter with a group of cyclists who do weight train...specifically ... squats.


I can't think of anything more off-putting to a novice cyclist then advising them to go to the gym in order to become a better cyclist. They should just get out there and ride! Enjoy the speed and exhileration, not coop themselves inside doing squats.
 activemelaney
Joined: 9/8/2012
Msg: 40
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Posted: 12/10/2012 6:30:37 AM
Skye, are you sure you aren't 14?

Keep digging your hole. you are getting more ridiculous.
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 41
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Posted: 12/10/2012 6:35:50 AM
Keep digging your hole. you are getting more ridiculous.


What's exactly?

That I think people shouuld focus on an activity, with exercise as a byproduct? Or that gyms provide an artificial environment?

Seems like a perfectly valid argument either way. You don't have to agree, but there is nothing remotely ridiculous about it.
 jsyl87
Joined: 8/31/2012
Msg: 42
Personal trainers and gyms
Posted: 12/10/2012 7:05:23 AM
This thread .....shakes head

Agreed.

Not even going to bother getting into the jumbled nonsense on here. I train elite level athletes for a living, guess that makes me an outlier. Also control a 14,000+ square foot "Sport Performance Training Facility", far different than a "Gym".
 DragonBits
Joined: 1/6/2012
Msg: 43
Personal trainers and gyms
Posted: 12/10/2012 7:15:59 AM
I find it helpful to belong to a gym and to use the weight training equipment and cardio machines. I live in Chicago and ½ of the year you can't go out and bike in a foot of snow or when the temp is to cold.

I have never participated in a sport, biking is the closest I come to a sport, I can't spend several hours everyday biking to stress my muscles, it's easier to up the difficulty level and track heart rate in the gym, and in a gym the weather is always the same, no traffic to avoid, one can space out listing
to music or just day dreaming.


I was talking about the artificial environment represented by gyms, and the motivations of non-elite athletes.


I am always a little bemused by those degenerating artificial environments. All of human existence has been about creating an artificial environment. Mountain biking and a unicycle didn't exist in cave man days, so IM view everything is an artificial environment of one sort or another.

My strength and gym training (cardio) makes a difference in my everyday life, I can't “do” everyday life hard enough to enhance my health.

I have never used a personal trainer, even when I was earning $9,000 a month, I think they do provide motivation for many people, though a work out partner works well also. If I earned $2000 a month I would,t spend money on a trainer, there is a lot of free advice on the internet. If spending the money on a trainer isn't a big deal, then I think they can help but it's more of a personal preference.

Since I have a lifetime gym membership costs isn't a factor, I pay less than 15 cents a day.

One can work out and exercise without any equipment at all, it is more difficult to set up a program to do it that way, but it can be done.

Many people do buy a gym membership or a machine and think they somehow accomplished a fitness goal, and often the new fitness machine becomes a good place to hang your clothes.

It is more difficult to stay in shape when you get older than 50, gym memberships start to make more sense the older you get.
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 44
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Posted: 12/10/2012 7:20:57 AM
I am always a little bemused by those degenerating artificial environments. All of human existence has been about creating an artificial environment. Mountain biking and a unicycle didn't exist in cave man days, so IM view everything is an artificial environment of one sort or another.


Fair comment. I was having a dig at exercycles and treadmills and rowing machines.

If bikes/unicycles/running shoes/rowing boats are artificial, then the above even more so. I know which I'd rather ride, and I've done pretty well at my sport because I enjoy it as an activity, not because I see it as exercise.

When I advise patients, I don't tell them to go to the gym, I tell them to find an activity they enjoy, and have exercise as a byproduct. It's a better way approach for non-competitive people. If they enjoy going to the gym, great. They should.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 45
Personal trainers and gyms
Posted: 12/10/2012 6:55:38 PM

You beat me to it... the above poster, no offense, is seriously showing some major, major ignorance if you think weight training doesn't transfer to real world athleticism, please find me an Olympic track and field athlete who doesn't weight train.... please? I'd even go so far as to say the majority of bicyclists and marathoners weight train.

No offenses but you are showing a serious inability to follow the thread.

What Olympic or other Elite Athlete do is not what every day people do.

With regards to "Real World Athleticism", no person is going to better suited in the real world because they weight train vs just exercise.

The idea / myth that the more muscle you have the better suited you will be is a failure at understanding how the body works, because the more muscle you have will not benefit you any more than someone that has a normal amount of muscle mass.
 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 46
Personal trainers and gyms
Posted: 12/10/2012 9:36:26 PM
I recently hired a personal trainer.
Been doing the gym thing and wasn't getting the results I wanted.
so hired a pro....and found out I was doing everything wrong.
LoL

so now I have a better routine and know what to do.
Tis money well spent.
at $25 a training session, not a bad deal at all.
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 47
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Posted: 12/12/2012 2:59:56 AM
just back from a 3hr run that has me with a big smile on my face. Ran along a river, through some country roads, and through the bush. It was dark by the time I got back, but the stars are amazing when you're away from the city lights.

Now, if I'd tortured myself by running on the same spot for 3hrs, in a roomful of smelly people exercising for the sake of it, I think I'd be ready to pull my nails out. Treadmills rate alongside Karaoke as one of mankinds worst ever inventions.
 jpwrnglrwmn_forumsonly
Joined: 4/23/2011
Msg: 48
Personal trainers and gyms
Posted: 12/12/2012 7:52:51 AM
Some good advice mentioned already, such as buying a two year membership at Costco for less. .Or you could talk to the club manager and see if they would be willing to offer a better deal. After being a member for two years, I got tired of paying month to month, and figured I'd pay $600 for 3 years, then $99 to renew every year after that. Ends up saving money in the long run. I would say that if you haven't exercised in awhile, need a little motivation, could benefit from someone showing you the correct form on exercises, or all of the above, it might help to get a personal trainer for a little bit. I really like the Women's Health Big Book of Exercises, too. (They also have a Men's Health Big Book of Exercises, no difference between the books, except that it has men in the men's book, and women in the women's book)For $25, you get 14 workout programs each totaling 12 weeks each (You could probably try a different workout for 2 years), as well as several hundred exercises, broken down by muscle group.
Like some posters have mentioned, it all depends on what you are aiming for.
 Fishing4Marlin
Joined: 10/4/2012
Msg: 49
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Posted: 12/12/2012 1:16:40 PM
jpwrnglrwmn said:
figured I'd pay $600 for 3 years, then $99 to renew every year after that
Hey, I got that same 24 hour fitness deal ($99 annually after 3 years) for my ex-wife about 8 years ago, I got mine about 15 years ago for a $49 annual renewal. I've asked about it a bunch of times for my parents and friends and the managers always tell me they are not doing that again. Did you get that recently? I'm guessing they have wiggle room and you just have to ask at the right place and right time...
 jpwrnglrwmn_forumsonly
Joined: 4/23/2011
Msg: 50
Personal trainers and gyms
Posted: 12/14/2012 12:58:44 AM
Wow, you got an even better deal than I did at the time. . .think one of my co-workers mentioned that at about the same timeframe you mentioned, he also had a similar deal, too. Actually, I believe it was about two years ago, or maybe three, that I prepaid for my membership. I had heard about the deal that they were offering for new members, and wondered if the same thing could be extended for continuing members. Talked to the manager, and he said they don't normally offer it except to new members, but he made an exception. (That's a good way of keeping continuing members).
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