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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...      Home login  
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 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 301
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Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...Page 13 of 16    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16)
simply amazing.

I even tried to say that I thought the speech was delivered well. And all you can handle is trash talking. Prior to that I even tried to say acknowledge hope in the system.

You represent your side very well. Malicious and uncompromising. You have any question why this line of political discourse leads to absolute confrontation and I can't disagree with blocking absolutely everything requested if it means additional leftists spending.

You really do represent your side well. Makes me want to support the opposition to anything you stand for even more.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 302
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/14/2013 7:11:30 PM
I even tried to say that I thought the speech was delivered well.


It was a great speech.


You represent your side very well. Malicious and uncompromising


Clearly you never read what you write...it is full of name calling, it is condenending, and arrogant.


You really do represent your side well. Makes me want to support the opposition to anything you stand for even more.


Funny you say that...it is intolerant ppl like you that help ppl like me think the way we do.


The next cliff is already around the corner...the risk of defaulting on paying the bill for money we've already spent will be another lowering of the credit rating of America..further raising the cost of borrowing and existing debt...driving our country closer to, if not over, the next fiscal cliff.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 303
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Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/14/2013 7:40:07 PM
The next cliff is already around the corner...the risk of defaulting on paying the bill for money we've already spent will be another lowering of the credit rating of America..further raising the cost of borrowing and existing debt...driving our country closer to, if not over, the next fiscal cliff.


No it wont. Out of control spending will lower it.


http://edition.cnn.com/2011/BUSINESS/08/05/global.economy/index.html

"The downgrade reflects our opinion that the fiscal consolidation plan that Congress and the administration recently agreed to falls short of what, in our view, would be necessary to stabilize the government's medium-term debt dynamics," the agency said about the move, which was announced after the markets had closed.

Rating agencies -- S&P, Moody's and Fitch -- analyze risk and give debt a grade that is supposed to reflect the borrower's ability to repay its loans.


And he already said he will approve the payments. But you just can't ever have an agreement. That is the liberal way. Create the crisis, use the crisis, then blame it on everyone else.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 304
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Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/14/2013 8:20:39 PM

That is the liberal way. Create the crisis, use the crisis, then blame it on everyone else.


Unfortunately, it's also been the Conservative way for a very long time, too. Hence why electing all those Republicans back in the nineties, led us directly into this mess.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 305
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/15/2013 11:19:18 AM
No it wont. Out of control spending will lower it.


Well, out of control spending has been going on since Reagan...but, the immediate debt rating crisis, yanno-the one that arises next month, isn't related to spending-it's related to the debt ceiling



By Jim Puzzanghera
January 15, 2013, 7:38 a.m.

WASHINGTON — A failure by Congress to raise the debt limit "in a timely manner" could lead to a downgrade of the nation's AAA credit rating, Fitch Ratings said Tuesday.

Republicans want major government spending cuts in exchange for a debt-limit increase. But Fitch, one of three major credit-rating companies, said the debt ceiling should not be used to force a deficit-reduction plan.

"In Fitch's opinion, the debt ceiling is an ineffective and potentially dangerous mechanism for enforcing fiscal discipline," the company said.

http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-fitch-ratings-debt-limit-credit-u.s.-20130115,0,4766520.story



Moody's analyst: U.S. rating will be downgraded without clear solution in 2013

--Moody's: Solution must produce clear picture of fiscal outlook, debt trajectory

--Treasury Department says government will hit its borrowing limit by Monday

(Adds detail in sixth paragraph.)


By Geoffrey Rogow and Debbie Cai
Moody's Investors Service on Wednesday said that the U.S. government reaching its borrowing limit will not change Moody's rating on the country.

The comments came as the Treasury Department said the government would hit its $16.394 trillion borrowing limit by Monday, setting in motion a series of emergency steps that might buy the government time until just February or March before it faces a full-blown debt crisis. At the same time, the government has yet to reach an agreement to avert $500 billion in automatic spending cuts and tax increases scheduled to go into effect on Jan. 1.

Moody's anticipates the government will reach a long-term debt deal sometime in 2013, regardless of whether the fiscal cliff is triggered in the short term, said Steven Hess, a senior credit officer in Moody's sovereign-risk group in an interview. But there would be ramifications if that expectation isn't met.

"If there is no solution in 2013 that produces a clear picture of the medium-term fiscal outlook and the medium-term debt trajectory, we would downgrade the rating," said Steven Hess, a senior credit officer in Moody's sovereign-risk group.

In an earlier report, the ratings firm said it views the debt ceiling as a permanent part of the U.S. government's risk profile of triple-A--the highest credit quality. The outlook remains negative.

Also in the report, Moody's said it expects that the government will raise the debt ceiling as it has done in the past, but not before it nearly exhausts all other temporary measures.

Moody's said that the probability of a missed interest payment on Treasury bonds is extremely low, but it will monitor political developments in the coming months for evidence the probability has shifted.

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20121226-706027.html
 ChowFun
Joined: 11/19/2012
Msg: 306
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/15/2013 12:33:23 PM
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It's a sign that the US government can't pay its own bills. It's a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

Obama speech when he was a senator. March 20th 2006.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 307
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Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/15/2013 1:12:10 PM
Well, out of control spending has been going on since Reagan...but, the immediate debt rating crisis, yanno-the one that arises next month, isn't related to spending-it's related to the debt ceiling


You can't keep using this as an excuse... Reagan's spending vs Bush vs Clinton vs Bush vs Obama

Come on... if you are going to take responsibility then take it. At what point is enough ever going to be enough? Bush 2nd spiked the spending. That doesn't make it okay to keep doing it does it?
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 308
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/15/2013 7:13:36 PM

That doesn't make it okay to keep doing it does it?


Yanno, We agree that spending needs to be reigned in...and have agreed that some cuts need to be made to the social safety net...where we disagree is on defense spending...you, after you've repeatedly said government doesn't create jobs, want to create jobs thru adding to the military industrial complex....I want to reduce defense spending...primarily on machinery...hopefully if enough was cut from machinery, then a living wage might be afforded to those men and women in the military....and perhaps we could actually try and give these military personnel adequate healthcare....I know, I ask too much....but, neocons like you only see the social safety net as a place to trim the budget...shame on you.


That doesn't make it right to hold the credit rating of the US hostage for political gain, does it


WASHINGTON — A failure by Congress to raise the debt limit "in a timely manner" could lead to a downgrade of the nation's AAA credit rating, Fitch Ratings said Tuesday.

Republicans want major government spending cuts in exchange for a debt-limit increase. But Fitch, one of three major credit-rating companies, said the debt ceiling should not be used to force a deficit-reduction plan.

"In Fitch's opinion, the debt ceiling is an ineffective and potentially dangerous mechanism for enforcing fiscal discipline," the company said.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 309
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Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/15/2013 10:13:04 PM

but, neocons like you only see the social safety net as a place to trim the budget...shame on you.


Right, shaming is always so productive isn't it. Wake up. Read the news. Have you seen how seriously bad it is getting in the world? It's getting incredibly bad out there. We are not in a time of peace.

Do a google news search for just the past week for al-Qaeda.
Armed conflict, massive social unrest, protests and serious world economic instability everywhere. At what point would you consider it more important to make sure we survive the world then to keep bailing people out of mortgages.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-us-might-be-a-nation-of-deadbeats-2013-01-15

A close look at the data reveals a very different story — and one that gets far too little airing in public discourse.

Far from paying our bills, the current generation of Americans — or some of them — have set records for default which probably have no parallel in the history of the human race. During the last five years, U.S. individuals have walked away from a staggering $585 billion in mortgages, credit card debts and other personal loans. That works out at about $6,000 per household.


You pull this shame crap? How about having some damn pride? Any parent knows you can't cater to your childs wishs and and demands. You defiantly can't keep fixing their problems. If you do what happens? They become obnoxious, entitled, spoiled little brats.


"In Fitch's opinion, the debt ceiling is an ineffective and potentially dangerous mechanism for enforcing fiscal discipline," the company said.

This is true and it shouldn't be happening and if one man stands in the way there is a serious problem. But it isn't going to occur and if it does he's an asshat and shouldn't be supported. As far as paying the bills goes.

But, it isn't the whole description of what they are saying.

A major credit-rating firm warned it could downgrade the U.S. if lawmakers prioritize debt payments over other government obligations such as Social Security, or fail to tackle the nation's growing debt burden in the ongoing budget negotiations


"...or fail to tackle the nations growing debt burden in the ongoing budget negotiations. "

That is a clear indication that even paying the bills is only half the issue of lowering the rating. So, you can blame one side all you want but it's BS.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 310
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/16/2013 7:01:21 AM

Do a google news search for just the past week for al-Qaeda.


Yes, we need more aircraft carrier and 2 nuclear subs a year to combat these technologically supperior terrorists....to the tune of about $30 billion per aircraft carrier and 3 billion per sub...let alone what we spend on aircraft.


This is true and it shouldn't be happening and if one man stands in the way there is a serious problem


It's 2 men who stand in the way...Boner and McConnell.


That is a clear indication that even paying the bills is only half the issue of lowering the rating. So, you can blame one side all you want but it's BS.


When one side holds the country hostage on paying it's current obligations...over a seperate issue...then it's only bs in the minds of ppl like you.


"In Fitch's opinion, the debt ceiling is an ineffective and potentially dangerous mechanism for enforcing fiscal discipline," the company said.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 311
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Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/16/2013 7:15:15 AM

When one side holds the country hostage on paying it's current obligations...over a seperate issue...then it's only bs in the minds of ppl like you.

You mean people that are holding the country hostage to take from one group and give to another. To lower the United States on the world stage and be shamed into submission for being rich and greedy. You mean the ones that are tired of the restrictions of the constitution and want it gone. The ones that want to remove the ability of individual states to act on their own behalf? The ones that want the destroy the productivity and achievement of individuals in favor of creating the largest and most over bearing and over controlling monolithic corporation on the planet, The Federal Government. The ones that see the Government as the caretaker of individuals over the caretaker of the idea of America?

Where does the BS really live?
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 312
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/16/2013 7:56:05 AM

Where does the BS really live?


In this statement:


You mean people that are holding the country hostage to take from one group and give to another. To lower the United States on the world stage and be shamed into submission for being rich and greedy. You mean the ones that are tired of the restrictions of the constitution and want it gone. The ones that want to remove the ability of individual states to act on their own behalf? The ones that want the destroy the productivity and achievement of individuals in favor of creating the largest and most over bearing and over controlling monolithic corporation on the planet, The Federal Government. The ones that see the Government as the caretaker of individuals over the caretaker of the idea of America?
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 313
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Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/16/2013 8:12:16 AM
In this statement:


Didn't think you had an argument. Prove to me that the government is not becoming the largest monolithic corporation. Name something it doesn't control. The list of things it provides is growing.

Give me one argument against the fact that we know that when a company becomes too large it's power becomes abusive and it seeks nothing more than to grow. When it becomes so large that any instability causes national uncertainty and requires being bailed out for its mistakes what is that called? "Too big to fail"

It becomes increasingly impossible to maintain a corporation when it gets to large. How is this government you are so enamored by exempt from these rules?

Give any logical arguments because all you ever do is just play opposites and post bs links from some random biased articles with relevant parts excluded.

 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 314
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/16/2013 12:15:46 PM

Didn't think you had an argument


You mean reply to this craype??? Which was your non-reply to defense spending...


You mean people that are holding the country hostage to take from one group and give to another. To lower the United States on the world stage and be shamed into submission for being rich and greedy. You mean the ones that are tired of the restrictions of the constitution and want it gone. The ones that want to remove the ability of individual states to act on their own behalf? The ones that want the destroy the productivity and achievement of individuals in favor of creating the largest and most over bearing and over controlling monolithic corporation on the planet, The Federal Government. The ones that see the Government as the caretaker of individuals over the caretaker of the idea of America?


I will not dignify this non-sensical commentary with a reply.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 315
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/16/2013 4:40:38 PM

Where does the BS really live?

Fox News.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 316
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Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/16/2013 10:18:55 PM

ENRON....


Not sure which side you were trying to prove but it proves my point. Large corporations corrupt and become even more corrupt with more power and size. This is a known issue with corporations and it virtually unavoidable and is just how it works. Anyone that claims otherwise is wishful thinking.

So, how in the hell is it at all plausible that creating a corporate government that is the largest and most powerful monopoly on the planet a good idea?

Only liberals live in this hypocrisy where they believe a massively powerful providing government will somehow not be the worst corporation on the planet..

You think Enron was bad? Give them control over healthcare. This fantasy that because your liberal and you care that you are capable of creating an all caring government is just plain idiotic and without a single bit of even the remotest common sense.

Each refusal to acknowledge the points above is only acknowledging no contest against the argument. So, Sorry if you really can't find a leg to stand on in support of idiocy.

I did respond to the cutting of the military. You haven't proved to me it is wise. Wise is not the same as heartfelt want. I justified my answer by illustrating the real and legitimate world danger.

I showed you my cards. Show me yours and be serious about it and not dismissive comedic idiotic attempts to pretend like you are the next John Stewart.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 317
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Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/17/2013 4:49:33 AM
I disagree with you on a couple of your generalities here, Aries.

First, I have not myself observed that the inevitable result of large size and power in a corporation, is corruption. That sounds like an attempt to extend the old saying about absolute power corrupting absolutely, and if so, it would be a misapplication of the saying.

I have seen a number of very large organizations manage to NOT succumb to entrenched, structural corruption (which is the kind which matters, relative to the point you are making there). I have seen that mistakes get made, on a local basis, no matter how large or small a group is, because any collection of people will include some less-than-thoroughly learned ones, some bad eggs so to speak.

As for your attempt to extend the above mistake, and say that making a government into a "massively providing" one will therefore also inevitably result in corruption, has no supporting evidence presented, only a reiteration of your well established prejudice against anything that you call liberal. Not to mention the fact, that I don't know of any group who is advocating the creation of said "massively providing" government, just lots of people trying to make the rest of us fear that ANY move to use government to take 100% power away from corporations or individuals, will inevitably lead to despotism and societal failure.

Frankly, I have found that too many people who make references like that (saying this or that proves that liberalism, or conservatism is inherently bad), are really just looking at anything that they don't like, and adding it to the pile of things they blame on their favorite "bad guy," whether there's any evidence at all that the "bad guy" in question had anything to do with it.

Most important, you are overlooking the necessarily associated fact, that if you make a 100% blanket condemnation of anything, it follows that you are giving 100% support, to it's opposite consideration. And that has the inevitable result that you are breaking your own rule, and bringing about the exact thing that you think you are trying to prevent: too much power concentrated in too few hands.

I think that balance is the key. And just as it is true in a small example of a person trying to balance themselves on, say, a narrow log, that some wobbling back and forth will be required, I think we must accept that finding a balance point in government versus private sector will show the same sorts of constant adjustment to be needed. Flatly demanding that only wobbles to the right, or wobbles to the left be allowed, will only assure the result that we will all fall off the log.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 318
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/17/2013 5:17:40 AM
I think that balance is the key


I think you are right...the issue I have , and it's not with budget reductions, it's in the lack of balance to budget reductions presented by the GOP...the GOP plans all reduce social safety net spending while increasing military spending...which, on the face of it wouldn't necessarilyu be a bad thing if it went towards increasing servicemen wages and provided adequate healthcare...but, the GOP proposed military increases mostly go toward the military industrial complex-machinery...and ignore servicemen wages and healthcare.


I did respond to the cutting of the military


Seriously??? You propose to fight al qaeda and other terrorists with more nuclear subs and aircraft carriers??? When you seriously answer the question of balanced cutting then there's room for a discussion.


US total military related 2012 spending:

Total Spending

$1.030–$1.415 trillion
http://debategraph.org/Stream.aspx?nID=235189#235189_5__1



According to a number of sources, the U.S. defense budget sits at around $1 trillion annually. Costs include defense contracts (all that fancy machinery is produced with corporate welfare enjoyed by Boeing, Raytheon, Northrop Grumman, etc.), the operating costs of hundreds of international military bases, munitions (bombs, guns, etc.), active duty pay, veteran benefits, and so on. With all of the defense contracts and personnel pay and benefits which amount to 24% of the federal budget in 2012, we could honestly characterize the Department of Defense as the biggest entitlement program of them all. By comparison, healthcare and welfare spending account for 22% and 12% of the budget, respectively.
http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/186497/defense-spending-the-biggest-entitlement-program-of-them-all/
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 319
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Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/17/2013 7:37:26 AM

I think that balance is the key. And just as it is true in a small example of a person trying to balance themselves on, say, a narrow log, that some wobbling back and forth will be required, I think we must accept that finding a balance point in government versus private sector will show the same sorts of constant adjustment to be needed. Flatly demanding that only wobbles to the right, or wobbles to the left be allowed, will only assure the result that we will all fall off the log.


I never said to strip the government. It is to cut back. It has to be done. There is no balance right now. The examples are valid. AIG, and many banking systems are too big. They are dangerous. Anti Monopoly laws exist for this reason. it is dangerous. It is a generalization because in general it is true enough to be a generalization. To state otherwise is to deny the existence of the laws that are supposed to be in place to prevent companies from achieving a lock and prohibiting competition. When the government moves into an area there is no competition.

The "absolute power" quote is mainly meant to reflect the nature of people. It isn't an unwise saying. Individuals that attain great power are a severe risk at abusing it. There will be some people that may not go this way but its a crap shoot. Also, the most significant problem about an individual that attains great power is the fact that they die. The one who follows would be a diminished substitute. Lenin to Stalin.

As for the follow up about military spending. I will not personally suggest what should and should not be cut
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57564419/militants-35-hostages-dead-in-algerian-copter-attack/


Seriously??? You propose to fight al qaeda and other terrorists with more nuclear subs and aircraft carriers??? When you seriously answer the question of balanced cutting then there's room for a discussion

You know what aircraft carriers are for right? Even subs are taken to the areas and become localized stations. I don't know what your issue is with military hardware. But it's wierd.

As far as military overal spending. There should be something to cut. But there were significant cuts made over the past few years and I don't know what happened to those. Are the numbers that keep being reported not counting those cuts which may or may not have been enacted yet? I dont know but I do recall the slashing of military

2011
http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/08/01/defense_spending_cut_in_debt_deal_unclear


"The deal puts us on track to cut $350 billion from the defense budget over 10 years," the White House said in a fact sheet today. "These reductions will be implemented based on the outcome of a review of our missions, roles, and capabilities that will reflect the President's commitment to protecting our national security."


2009
http://www.stripes.com/news/gates-announces-major-cuts-in-defense-budget-1.89954

WASHINGTON — Defense Secretary Robert Gates on Monday announced sweeping cuts and a significant shift in priorities for next year’s defense budget, with more money for servicemembers and federal employees but less for some major defense contractors.


I don't know what is being counted and neither do you. The cuts haven't kicked may not be kicked in and what they are being asked is to cut on top of all the other cuts they have been doing. So, Do you know? Other then making shit up that is. It's easy to see the cuts necessary in social programs because it isn't masked. There were only cuts in growth in past.

I could absolutely see the defense department rejecting any further cuts. There is a legitimate defense against it. Cuts have already been made.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 320
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/17/2013 7:49:39 AM
You know what aircraft carriers are for right? Even subs are taken to the areas and become localized stations. I don't know what your issue is with military hardware. But it's wierd.


ROFLMAO...actually I do...in researching my viewpoint, I read a real interesting article on aircraft carriers as a method of launching multiple aircraft from points in which they may reach their targets and return safely...so really, how many hundreds of aircraft need be launched in order to kill 10 or 20 terrorists??? Taking for granted that we actually know where they are...How many more aircraft carrier's, other than the two that are already in the Persian Gulf, do you think we need in the Persian Gulf??? How many more than the 10 aircraft carriers we alreaqdy have do we need??? I mean we have as many aircraft carriers as the total of the rest of the world..How many more do we need??? and while we're at it...what about nuclear subs, that we're building to the tune of 2 per year...how many more nuclear subs do we need? I mean these are real effective at targeting al qaeda terrorists..

I already know your position on wackamole drones...and you think building more aircraft carriers...designed to deliver manned aircraft to a region...is more effective than drone's???


There is a legitimate defense against it. Cuts have already been made.


Oh pray tell....what are these defense cuts in which you so knowingly speak of...and please don't tell me that reductions in defense due to ending the Iraq war and the Afganistan wars are what you speak of.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 321
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History
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/17/2013 8:33:51 AM

Oh pray tell....what are these defense cuts in which you so knowingly speak of...and please don't tell me that reductions in defense due to ending the Iraq war and the Afganistan wars are what you speak of.


Okay... huhuhuh let me whip out my security clearance....

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/08/01/defense_spending_cut_in_debt_deal_unclear

Interestingly, if you add the $350 billion in defense cuts announced by the White House as part of today's deal with the $534 billion in defense cuts in the trigger mechanism, it totals $884 billion. That number is suspiciously close to the $886 billion in defense cuts proposed in the plan put forth by theSenate's bipartisan budget group the Gang of Six, which President Barack Obama has already endorsed.



Despite your whining there have already be actual cuts to defense. Not just cuts in growth. So me the 800 billion in social spending cuts? Even if you can't comprehend the argument because you can't comprehend the difference between corporate welfare and the fact that the government does not have manufacturers and must contract with private companies to acquire materials. Even if you plug your ears and blow raspberries there is still a legitimate argument against cutting defense further.

What you many not find is those actual cuts that occurred reflected in current spending because the cuts are... as usual for gvot... over a long period of time.

However, this type of thinking goes against the yolo live for the moment liberal mind.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 322
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/17/2013 9:40:37 AM

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/08/01/defense_spending_cut_in_debt_deal_unclear





Despite your whining there have already be actual cuts to defense. Not just cuts in growth. So me the 800 billion in social spending cuts? Even if you can't comprehend the argument because you can't comprehend the difference between corporate welfare and the fact that the government does not have manufacturers and must contract with private companies to acquire materials. Even if you plug your ears and blow raspberries there is still a legitimate argument against cutting defense further.


Dude....LOL...this is the sequester deal that just got thrown out with the bathwater...there have been no cuts to defense...no cuts in the social safety net...in case ya didn't know....just so you know what happened at the end of the year...the income (tax) portion of the budget was approved...the spending portion of the budget was shelved for a couple of months...OK...got it.

Now sequester might pop-up again with the next go round on the budget...but, that's not what the GOP is currently proposing...the only current GOP porposals are cuts to the social safety net...and have proposed increases in military spending...which do not include spending increases servicemen wages and healthcare.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 323
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History
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/18/2013 12:14:44 AM
question... it is impossible dealing with you because all you say is republicans lie. It's understandable bec ause a democrat is incapable of uttering a whole sentence that doesn't contain some form of misdirection.

I want to set aside beliefs in who is lying just for a second.

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2012/10/federal-spending-by-the-numbers-2012

If the numbers on the page were true would you agree or not that social spending is the more detrimental and that defense has been cut?

Suspension of disbelief may be required by you. I get it. But in this case. These numbers are the opposition. So, if they are true do they warrant social cuts over any others.

Saying yes doesn't not provide validity of the numbers. Also, saying no should assume that your belief is that social spending is not high enough.

So, which is it?
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 324
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/18/2013 4:58:25 AM

question... it is impossible dealing with you because all you say is republicans lie. It's understandable bec ause a democrat is incapable of uttering a whole sentence that doesn't contain some form of misdirection.

Thanks for the irony, that was a goo done.




If the numbers on the page were true would you agree or not that social spending is the more detrimental and that defense has been cut?

I would agree to it, if you could find a non-bias link, unlike the one you posted that is a conservative think tank.





So, which is it?

It's a win win.

Conservative politics: Make sure that your policies create more welfare recipients and then blame welfare.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 325
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/18/2013 5:13:56 AM

question... it is impossible dealing with you because all you say is republicans lie. It's understandable bec ause a democrat is incapable of uttering a whole sentence that doesn't contain some form of misdirection.


Funny post...coming from someone who says all the US woes are at the hands of liberal socialists...and who rarely answers a direct question.


Saying yes doesn't not provide validity of the numbers. Also, saying no should assume that your belief is that social spending is not high enough.


Did you not read my last few posts? Apparently not...I have agreed that the social safety net requires cuts...but, I've also advocated a balanced approach that includes defense spending reductions....while congress did address the income portion of the budget at the end of 2012...the cutting portion of the budget was tabled till no later than 3/1/2013 when sequestration takes over...any current reductions to the military budget are directly related to lower costs associated with Iraq and Afganistan....however, I do note that the Heritage Foundation completely ignores the cost of debt (interest) that was generated thru the Iraq and Afganistan wars.
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