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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...      Home login  
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 WomanInSF
Joined: 11/13/2012
Msg: 333
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Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...Page 15 of 16    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16)

Let us set aside our differences of opinion for a moment to offer a prayer, sympathy for his family, or just reflect on how tenuous this life is.

I am very sorry to hear that Bob (Oy Vay) passed away. I got used to reading his posts. My opinions were very often opposite to his, but I think that he was a kind man. My sympathy goes to his family.
 Blah_User_Name
Joined: 8/27/2011
Msg: 334
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/18/2013 7:13:30 PM
Very sad news about a well respected forumite. RIP Bob.
 CynthiaSM
Joined: 2/24/2012
Msg: 335
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/19/2013 9:25:52 PM
So long, Bob. See you on the other side.
 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 336
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History
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/20/2013 5:46:36 AM
Irish, thanks for this sad news. Conversed a bit with Oy this passed year as we fought the 'great debate'. Loved his style and sum ups. Had been missing his posts of late---a great POF forumite and a real character, whose particular 'salty take' I'll miss reading with on here.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 337
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Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/20/2013 12:41:35 PM
Obviously, you haven't read the thread without remembering to first remove your prejudice shades, because though there are pro GOP and anti GOP people here, and there might be a pro Democrat person here, it really isn't at all about "how the democrats has the answers to solve America's problems," nor about how "the republicans caused this mess" per se.

I am myself convinced, that this particular mess, has been brought to us by a combined effort of both parties, though I would say that the most recent crises have been sponsored more by the GOP. They decided to take us into an unnecessary war, and to fund that war entirely on credit, they decided to oppose all regulation of financial institutions (with collusion from the Democrats), and they single-handedly caused our international credit rating to be downgraded, by playing politics with it. Until recently, they insisted that despite there being ZERO factual support for the idea that low taxes on the rich does anything at all to help the economy for anyone else, and so they prevented any help to be had from increased revenues.

If you are convinced that the GOP had nothing to do with the mess, then I'm sure you are already predisposed to refuse to see any proof anyone offered (i.e. you haven't read any news in the last thirty years that wasn't written by pro GOP people), so it's a silly waste of effort to go back through it all now.

But if you'd like to be calm, rational, and discuss the factual situation, including the egregious errors made by both parties, you are certainly welcome to join in.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 338
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History
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/20/2013 2:29:43 PM

They decided to take us into an unnecessary war, and to fund that war entirely on credit, they decided to oppose all regulation of financial institutions (with collusion from the Democrats),


Remember that stance. It should become very important to you in the near future.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/19/obama-algeria-_n_2512624.html

"This attack is another reminder of the threat posed by al Qaeda and other violent extremist groups in North Africa," Obama said.


http://www.defenddemocracy.org/media-hit/symposium-shattered-dreams-of-al-qaeda/


I would advise against an outright statement that these documents represent al-Qaeda's concession of defeat. Defeat is terminal, the end. That is not the case here. What they do reveal from the very lips of al-Qaeda leaders in Iraq is that they are having their lunch handed to them and in the process of being defeated.


It was hugely effective in strategy to bring the war to a place rather then the randomness of spurious attacks by small groups. It caused them to organize themselves as much as possible under a command and focus on this area where they could be defeated.

I say to remember it because of how much the resurgence of al_Qaeda is occurring and the even stronger influence and even bolder actions that are occurring because of the successful demonization of the war in Iraq and Bush. Yes, they successfully demonized the right, bush, and the war on terror but pick it right back up and are about to jump in again.

The coming war will also be on 'credit'.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2013/01/18/algeria-attack-shows-the-arab-spring-morphing-into-the-war-on-terror/

If hostages are the first priority, let’s hope that the second priority of the White House is to give Algeria the support it needs to drive out the Islamist and prevent future attacks. Don’t just leave that job up to France.


I'm sure it will be all okay though with today's crop of so called liberal democrats. Just don't call it an axis of evil and you will be fine right. And the fun part will be going after Iran for WMD's and sponsering al_Qaeda or some other version of the same old story with a new teller. Islamist don't really like socialists much either no matter how much they try to friend them.

Will still be on credit card. That is how wars are fought these days.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 339
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Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/20/2013 6:29:54 PM

Let me take this moment to inform all of our fellow poster of the passing of Oy Vay, or Bob as his friends know him.

Bob, has battled with leukemia for the past few years, but this past summer his disease took a turn for the much worse.

Let us set aside our differences of opinion for a moment to offer a prayer, sympathy for his family, or just reflect on how tenuous this life is.

Bless you Bob.
He will be dearly missed. (Sigh ... another number that I will not be able to delete from my phone.) I had been talking with Bob last summer ... we were making plans to meet up but he got sick and couldn't make it. I sing with a local German chorus and travel throughout the US (occasionally to Europe) and was down his way ... was gonna meet up with him on a long flight layover. We had lots of nice long conversations.
 PGL7
Joined: 8/7/2010
Msg: 340
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/21/2013 9:46:52 AM

Let me take this moment to inform all of our fellow poster of the passing of Oy Vay, or Bob as his friends know him.

Bob, has battled with leukemia for the past few years, but this past summer his disease took a turn for the much worse.

Let us set aside our differences of opinion for a moment to offer a prayer, sympathy for his family, or just reflect on how tenuous this life is.

Bless you Bob.


Sorry to hear of the passing of this member of the community.
Despite all the partisan rhetoric spewed in here, it is all, in the end, just a form of entertainment.
However it is always regrettable to hear of the suffering of any human being and certainly the loss of any, is a tragedy.

It is curious to read some of the comments in hear regarding Oy Vay... who new that a sub group within this community were in such contact with each other.
It does answer some questions though!
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 341
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/21/2013 10:43:11 AM

It is curious to read some of the comments in hear regarding Oy Vay... who new that a sub group within this community were in such contact with each other.
It does answer some questions though!


Thing is...Bob chatted with conservatives too...so, whatever it is your attempting to imply...it lacks merit...
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 342
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History
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/21/2013 3:31:03 PM
^^^ BBNI ... please give me a call ... I sent my numbers!


It is curious to read some of the comments in hear regarding Oy Vay... who new that a sub group within this community were in such contact with each other.
It does answer some questions though!

Thing is...Bob chatted with conservatives too...so, whatever it is your attempting to imply...it lacks merit...
Bob and I did not talk about our forum postings in here ... when I was talking to him it was about his family and work ... and since I'm a nurse, it was also about his health.

We talked about how nice it is sometimes for the forumites to meet up. I met many of my fellow forumites at POF parties. It's a lot of fun! I once flew from Arizona to Florida to attend a POF party so I could surprise some dear friends made here in the forums.

Back when I was on unemployment, I still helped others ... once went out and purchased some clothes and sent them to a friend in the forums after I found out he had lost almost all of his clothes by accident (in a move). I have to wonder (sometimes) how many of the posters in here who are apparently well-off, who promote cutting benefits for the poor and homeless, who are in a position to help others ... actually do help others? Bob had good reason to feel sorry for himself but it never kept him from also being generous to his friends who needed help.

There are many aspects to those of us who post in the forums ... which is why it's important for us not to judge people based alone on what they post. We can have personal views on many subjects but that does not alone define who we are.
 PGL7
Joined: 8/7/2010
Msg: 343
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/22/2013 9:49:10 AM
Funny stuff... Now back to our regularly scheduled program...

Forget about raising the federal debt limit. House Republicans are proposing to ignore it altogether -- at least until May 18.
The House plans to vote Wednesday on a measure that would leave the $16.4 trillion debt limit intact but declare that it “shall not apply” from the date the measure passes until mid-May.

President Obama said on Jan. 14 in a White House press conference that he won’t negotiate with Republicans on the federal debt ceiling. Post economic policy reporter Zachary Goldfarb explains which bills the government will and will not pay if the debt ceiling isn’t raised.

This approach -- novel in modern times -- would let Republicans avoid a potentially disastrous fight over the debt limit without actually voting to let the Treasury borrow more money.
In addition to postponing a partisan fight over the debt limit, the measure seeks to force Senate Democrats to negotiate over a formal budget resolution by mandating that lawmakers’ paychecks be held in escrow starting April 15 unless Congress adopts a comprehensive framework for spending and tax policy.

But Sen. Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) said Democrats are planning to draft a budget for the first time in nearly four years,
Washington Post.

Republicans are learning they cant govern from the House but need to cut the best deal possible.
Why haven't the Democrats in the Senate passed a budget 4 straight years?
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 344
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/22/2013 10:50:33 AM
Why haven't the Democrats in the Senate passed a budget 4 straight years?


Ummm...to be percise it's 1064 days since the Senate Democrats passed a budget resolution....so, let's see what that really means:



As the House prepared to begin floor consideration of several contending budget resolutions for fiscal 2013, U.S. House Speaker John Boehner released a video trumpeting the Republican position.

"Ours is the only responsible budget in town," Boehner said about the GOP spending plan proposed by Paul Ryan, the House Budget Committee’s Republican chairman.

Other budget proposals included those from the House Democratic leadership, the conservative Republican Study Committee, the Congressional Progressive Caucus and the Congressional Black Caucus, plus a bipartisan budget inspired by the Simpson-Bowles Fiscal Commission and co-authored by Reps. Jim Cooper, a Tennessee Democrat, and Steve LaTourette, the Ohio Republican.

"Unfortunately, we're again waiting for leadership from the Democrats who run Washington," Boehner added, and then refreshed a favorite GOP talking point: "The Democrat-controlled Senate, it hasn't passed a budget in more than 1,000 days."

Ultimately the House approved the Ryan budget by a near party-line 228-191 vote, but it isn’t expected to go anywhere in the Senate. PolitiFact Ohio, though, thought it’d check out the speaker’s claim about Senate budgets.

It is similar to other statements that have been rated by PolitiFact national, PolitiFact Ohio, PolitiFact Wisconsin, PolitiFact Florida and PolitiFact New Hampshire. Among them:
"The Democrat-led Senate has failed to pass a budget for 750 days ... Senate Democrats have neglected one of their most basic responsibilities." (Sen. Rob Portman of Ohio)
"Congress has worked for two years without passing a budget." (former Louisiana Gov. Buddy Roemer)
The U.S. Senate Democrats "have gone without any budget at all" for almost three years. (Ryan)


Each of those statements cites the same starting point as Boehner’s claim of 1,000 days -- April 29, 2009. That was, according to the Congressional Research Service and news sources, when the Senate passed a budget resolution for fiscal 2010.

No budget resolution has passed since then, so Boehner's time tally -- like those of the previously checked statements -- is accurate. The day his video statement was posted, March 28, 2012, was 1,064 days from that date.

The PolitiFact rulings on these and other similar statements depended on their phrasing, but none was rated entirely True.

Knowing how Congress comes up with its federal budget helps to explain why.

Since the passage of the Congressional Budget Act of 1974, the Senate and the House are supposed to pass budget resolutions in the spring. These budget resolutions set a framework for spending, taxation and other fiscal items in the coming fiscal year. They also lay out general plans for the next four years. If these budget resolutions differ, the chambers are supposed to hammer out a compromise.

Budget resolutions are policy plans. They are not appropriations bills, or spending bills, which actually allocate money for specific purposes.

If a budget resolution doesn’t pass, the federal government won’t go dark. In the absence of a budget resolution, appropriations bills have continued to allocate money.

But, as a previous PolitiFact story said, "the inability to pass the budget framework can reflect poorly on the majority's organizational skills and/or the degree of partisan discord in Congress. It also increases the likelihood of a logjam of appropriations bills in the fall and winter, and decreases the chance that controversial tax bills will pass the Senate."

We wondered if the Senate, under Democratic control, had neglected its basic responsibility.

Our PolitiFact colleagues in Wisconsin, Florida and at PolitiFact national had the same question, and concluded that neither party can claim superiority on budget resolutions.

In 2010, the then Democratic-controlled House and Senate did not adopt a budget resolution or adopt a single spending bill "because the Democrats were afraid of being labeled big spenders," said Steve Ellis, a budget expert with Taxpayers for Common Sense, an independent group that analyzes federal spending.

Senate Democrats didn’t pass a fiscal 2011 budget because "Republicans were threatening to hijack the budget process and waste the American people’s time with pointless political votes," a spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid told PolitiFact Florida. "Faced with this obstruction, we decided it would be a more productive use of the American people’s time to move on and address other issues critical to middle-class families."

Our Florida colleagues also found that the House and Senate have failed to pass a joint budget bill on four earlier occasions since 1983.

For fiscal year 2003, the Senate, under Democratic control in 2002, failed to pass a budget resolution of any kind. For fiscal 1999, 2005 and 2007, the House and Senate failed to reconcile their different bills and pass a compromise measure. In these latter three cases, the Republicans were in the majority in both chambers of Congress.

Those facts lend perspective to Boehner’s statement.

But on its face, Boehner’s statement is accurate. And it is more precisely worded than those that we’ve previously checked.

On the Truth-O-Meter, it rates True.

http://www.politifact.com/ohio/statements/2012/apr/26/john-boehner/john-boehner-says-senate-dems-havent-passed-budget/
 PGL7
Joined: 8/7/2010
Msg: 345
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/22/2013 11:15:22 AM
Oh I see ... even though they control the Senate. and it is their responsibility it is the minority Republicans fault.
Ahh... so enlightening.
A simple minority can pass the Presidents budget in the Senate.

But that hasn't happened for 3 years?
The sun was in their eyes...
They were sick on budget discussion days...
Those waskilly Republicans ate their homework...

Maybe it's just plain politics which the Democrats have payed wonderfully these past 4 years.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 346
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/23/2013 5:31:31 AM

Oh I see ... even though they control the Senate. and it is their responsibility it is the minority Republicans fault.
Ahh... so enlightening.
A simple minority can pass the Presidents budget in the Senate.


Well, I didn't get that from the Politifact article...what I got is partisan bickering and that it's not a budget, but a budget resolution.


Knowing how Congress comes up with its federal budget helps to explain why.

Since the passage of the Congressional Budget Act of 1974, the Senate and the House are supposed to pass budget resolutions in the spring. These budget resolutions set a framework for spending, taxation and other fiscal items in the coming fiscal year. They also lay out general plans for the next four years. If these budget resolutions differ, the chambers are supposed to hammer out a compromise.


So, a budget resolution isn't really a budget, but an outline of general tax, spending, and other fiscal items for the coming fiscal year.

Good to see that the GOP backed down on holding the US hostage over the debt ceiling and the US will continue to pay the bills for items already bought.

I often wonder why Social Security and medicare are looked at by the GOP as safety net programs...after all...I've bought and paid for both of these programs with SSI and medicare taxes...and the Social Security trust fund is $2.7 trillion dollars in the black (with US treasuries).
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 347
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History
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/23/2013 8:15:50 AM
^^^

Wow, everyone should read your post. You are now the Alex Jones of the leftists.

Who took the money from Social Security this time?
http://www.ssa.gov/pressoffice/pr/trustee12-pr.html


The Social Security Board of Trustees today released its annual report on the financial health of the Social Security Trust Funds. The combined assets of the Old-Age and Survivors Insurance, and Disability Insurance (OASDI) Trust Funds will be exhausted in 2033, three years sooner than projected last year. The DI Trust Fund will be exhausted in 2016, two years earlier than last year’s estimate. The Trustees also project that OASDI program costs will exceed non-interest income in 2012 and will remain higher throughout the remainder of the 75-year period.


Was it:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rj-eskow/obamas-tax-holiday-a-pois_b_793526.html

Obama's "Tax Holiday": A Poison Pill for Social Security


Obama pulled the plug on Social Security all last year. Did you **** about it?
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 348
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/23/2013 8:31:43 AM
Obama pulled the plug on Social Security all last year


Oh gee...it was all President Obama's doing??? But please, don't let these "facts" get in the way of your magical thinking:



Supporting the overall measure were 139 Democrats and 138 Republicans; opposed were 112 Democrats and 36 Republicans.

The bill extends for two years all of the Bush-era tax rates and provides a one-year payroll tax cut for most American workers, delivering what economists predict will be a needed lift. The Senate approved the package on Wednesday by 81 to 19.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/17/us/politics/17cong.html?pagewanted=all



Regardless...SSI and Medicare are benefits bought and paid for by Americans directly thru taxes specifically for the programs...yet, defense has no such targeted taxes...when the defense budget is 20% of total revenues collected....the revenues for SSI and Medicare are included...they should not be...since they are targeted benefit taxes...and should be kept seperate from the totla revenues...but they aren't...because if they were kept seperate from the calculation, as they should be...then defense would take up something like 40% of the general revenues.
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 349
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History
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/23/2013 10:01:18 AM
Regardless...SSI and Medicare are benefits bought and paid for by Americans directly thru taxes specifically for the programs...yet, defense has no such targeted taxes...when the defense budget is 20% of total revenues collected....the revenues for SSI and Medicare are included...they should not be...since they are targeted benefit taxes...and should be kept seperate from the totla revenues...but they aren't...because if they were kept seperate from the calculation, as they should be...then defense would take up something like 40% of the general revenues.


With so many dying before they are 50 or at least before they even qualify for social security there does not seem to be a problem funding the program or shouldn't be a problem. Perhaps this is what the real "death panels" are. Isn't it Republicans that are trying to keep people from having health insurance and now they want the money people put in for their own retirement as well?


Americans have lowest probability of surviving till 50

Also, new evidence revealed that younger generation of US citizens (those under 50) die earlier and have poorer health than their counterparts in other developed nations, according to a new study of health and longevity in US.

US men ranked last in life expectancy among the 17 countries in the study, and American women as second to last.

The 378-page report by a panel of experts convened by the Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council was based on a broad review of mortality and health studies and statistics and included other countries such as, Canada, Japan, Australia, France, Germany and Spain.

More specifically, US male deaths before the age of 50 account for two-thirds of the difference in life expectancy when compared to their counterparts in other countries and about one-third of the difference for females.

Americans have also a higher rate of death from guns, car accidents and drug addiction.

“Something fundamental is going wrong,” chairman of the Department of Family Medicine at Virginia Commonwealth University Steven Woolf told the New York Times. “Something at the core is causing the US to slip behind these other high-income countries. And it’s getting worse.”

The rate of firearm homicides was 20 times higher in the US than in the other countries, according to the report.

The US also had the second-highest death rate from the most common form of heart disease and the second-highest death rate from lung disease.

Americans even had the lowest probability of surviving till the age of 50.

The study attempts to explain such low results by highlighting American disjointed healthcare system with a large number of uninsured citizens and high levels of poverty in the country as possible reasons for the outcome.

These realities have taken their toll on the US annual rankings of World’s Happiest Countries as US has slipped from 10th to 12th place for the first time in the six-year history of the Legatum Institute‘s Prosperity Index.

The US is now behind Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the Scandinavian countries, including Norway, Denmark and Sweden, which ranked top three in the index.
http://rt.com/usa/news/us-poverty-kids-health-687/
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 350
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History
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/23/2013 12:19:16 PM
Republicans have no objection to anyone getting health insurance. They object to people being required to pay for it, including employers.

The problem with the GOP attitude, is that they have made no effort at all to deal with the problems of the
less-than-rich people, who need health care. They want to drive wages down as part of reducing business expenses, in the belief that this will make the US more competitive with overseas nations, and will ultimately result in an over all more robust economy(they are probably correct in this); but they are uninterested in helping anyone who isn't already well off, to adjust to the real costs of making the painful transition required. That includes that the ONLY way they have been willing to contribute anything at all to trying to reduce medical costs, has been to try to help Insurance companies improve their bottom line, by Federally limiting how much a doctor can be sued for (Tort Reform).

But they don't object to anyone who wants insurance, paying for all of it from their own reduced wages.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 351
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/23/2013 12:40:07 PM

Republicans have no objection to anyone getting health insurance. They object to people being required to pay for it, including employers.


Sadly, those who have not had healthcare insurance, in the past, have still been given healthcare on the public dime...and sadder still, much of this healthcare received was not preventative care, but was emergent care...provided at the emergency rooms of local hospitals, and was the most expensive care available....the result, of which, was poor. It is so much wiser, with better health results, and cost effective to provide preventative care than to provide care which is emergent...not to mention humain....and then since the uninsured have little or no access to personal physicians...the ER becomes their personal physician:



The prominent use of the emergency room by the uninsured was one of the most frequently heard arguments for the President's socialized medicine program. Since people know they can get treatment there without paying immediately (if at all), they would fill up the room regardless of how small the need. The argument goes on that this care costs so much more and when done for non-emergency needs, it creates a disruption of care for those who really need emergency treatment. Devon M. Herrick, a health economist and senior fellow at the National Center for Policy Analysis, believes the data from the NCHS paints a very different picture.

So who are the biggest users, those most likely to misuse, and even abusers of emergency rooms? According to NCH,S it is a group that already has government health care...individuals in the Medicaid system. Here are some other findings:


Approximately 32 percent of these Medicaid enrollees used the emergency room at least once during a 12 month period in 2007. Meanwhile, those with private health insurance were only about half as likely (17 percent) to go to an ER, and a similar number (around 20 percent) of the uninsured did the same in that time frame.


Medicaid enrollees were three times more likely than those with private insurance and twice as likely as those who are uninsured to go to the ER twice in that past year.


There are approximately 120 million ER visits made in the United States each year. These make up approximately 11 percent of all ambulatory visits.


One thing that there is little debate among health care professionals is that many of these 120 million ER visits could be better handled in other environments (such as a doctor's office, emergency clinics, etc.). Dr. Stephen Nichols, a regional medical officer for Schumacher Group, says "In general, 5 percent to 25 percent of patients who visit an emergency department in a community hospital have non-urgent complaints that could easily have been addressed in an outpatient setting," The Schumacher Group contracts for emergency department services at community hospitals.

The Heartland Institute in its report on the uninsured and their use of emergency rooms, quotes Dr. John Dunn, an emergency room specialist from Brownwood, Texas who noted that "Thirty percent to forty percent are emergencies or urgent care and deserve treatment within a reasonable time. But it is care that could be seen to in an urgent care clinic or a well-equipped office, though the patients probably are better off in the emergency department."

Why are Medicaid patients the most likely to use the ER in a less responsible manner? It simply comes down to the economic way of thinking. People with private insurance pay significantly more in co-pays for using an emergency room over a clinic or doctor's office. Therefore, avoiding the Emergency Room makes economic sense to them as consumers. Obamacare will essentially have all Americans treated similarly to the current Medicare patients. As a result, one can expect ER abuse to explode once socialized medicine goes fully into effect. This NCHS study not only weakens the argument for socialized medicine, but would be a devastating blow if facts still mattered in public policy debates.

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/price/100818
 Twilightslove
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 352
view profile
History
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/23/2013 1:56:33 PM
Igor

<div class='quote'>Republicans have no objection to anyone getting health insurance. They object to people being required to pay for it, including employers.

The problem with the GOP attitude, is that they have made no effort at all to deal with the problems of the
less-than-rich people, who need health care. They want to drive wages down as part of reducing business expenses, in the belief that this will make the US more competitive with overseas nations, and will ultimately result in an over all more robust economy(they are probably correct in this); but they are uninterested in helping anyone who isn't already well off, to adjust to the real costs of making the painful transition required. That includes that the ONLY way they have been willing to contribute anything at all to trying to reduce medical costs, has been to try to help Insurance companies improve their bottom line, by Federally limiting how much a doctor can be sued for (Tort Reform).

But they don't object to anyone who wants insurance, paying for all of it from their own reduced wages.
Okay you are right, Republicans do not object to anyone getting health insurance. I do feel that they want employees to pay for it instead of employers or it being on the government dime though.

The Republicans are definitely doing what they can to reduce wages to help curb business expenses as more and more Republican governors are attempting to make their states “right to work” states. In other words right to work for little and be taken advantage of with no real protections states. There is a good amount of changes in workplaces in Texas being made such as reducing employees hours even further to make them parttime and overworking employees that are already being worked too long so these employers do not have to hire new employees. Plenty more tricks being used to alleviate costs and continue denying people any real benefits.

The sad part is that those employees, who can least afford it, are having to pay for health insurance, out of their own paychecks, that have deductibles of $5000. individual and $10,000 per family. So that means they are forced to pay for insurance that they cannot use unless there is a real emergency,

I just love how you cannot sue a pharmaceutical company if you are injured due to a vaccine and they actually get people to take these vaccines and sign the paper giving the company immunity from prosecution. Incredibly crazy.

BBI


<div class='quote'>So who are the biggest users, those most likely to misuse, and even abusers of emergency rooms? According to NCH,S it is a group that already has government health care...individuals in the Medicaid system. Here are some other findings:


Approximately 32 percent of these Medicaid enrollees used the emergency room at least once during a 12 month period in 2007. Meanwhile, those with private health insurance were only about half as likely (17 percent) to go to an ER, and a similar number (around 20 percent) of the uninsured did the same in that time frame.


Medicaid enrollees were three times more likely than those with private insurance and twice as likely as those who are uninsured to go to the ER twice in that past year.


There are approximately 120 million ER visits made in the United States each year. These make up approximately 11 percent of all ambulatory visits

As far as the uninsured and/or medicaid patients using emergency rooms there are more reasons that are not told such as calling a doctor after hours and he tells those medicaid patients and insured patients to go to the emergency room.

Medicaid, in Texas, is almost non existant if you are over 18 years of age and under 65 years of age. You or anyone you live with who makes more than $231. per month disqualifies you from obtaining Medicaid. So, if you are a child or you are pregnant then you might qualify. The people who are on Medicaid have a hard time finding enough doctors who will accept them due to low reimbursement rates.

More and more minor emergency care clinics are popping up trying to alleviate the emergency room problems in Texas and it seems to be doing something. Emergency rooms seem lighter lately.

Low wage earners, who do not get any paid sick time, are forced to bring a doctor's note or lose their job in Texas so their options are sadly reduced to going to an emergency room, if they cannot afford the minor emergency clinic. Most of these low wage earners have no extra money for medical care and often have to find outside help to get the prescriptions prescribed.

Many uninsured wait until they are absolutely in emergent need before going to an emergency room which costs the taxpayers much more. I doubt that will change with this horrible excuse for insurance that is being offered. Who wants bill collectors hanging over their heads?


As far as the physical cliff goes, they should be reducing their own wages and benefits, cutting back on defense spending (exception providing soldiers with good health care and wages), stop funding banker bailouts, etc.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 353
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/23/2013 2:09:41 PM

That is a FLAWED study ..... TEXAS .... is NOT the best to do this study

YOUR CONCLUSIONS ARE WRONG.....


Ummm...I'm so sorry...but, these aren't my conclusions they are the conclusions of the writer of the articale I've posted...

My conclusions are that the uninsured still get healthcare...but, the healthcare received is done in the ER...is the most expensive...and provideds the poorest results...apparently, you did not read my own written words.

Generally, the reasons the uninsured go to the ER are because no primary care doctor will see them therefore they have no other option other than the ER...they have ignored care and now need emergent care...
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 354
view profile
History
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/23/2013 8:55:18 PM

Generally, the reasons the uninsured go to the ER are because no primary care doctor will see them therefore they have no other option other than the ER...they have ignored care and now need emergent care...


This is the screwed up part of the class system built by progressives. You are either rich or poor and you are okay. If you are in the middle you are screwed. The middle must pay for everything so progressives get all high and mighty and try to shift that off to just the rich. It's a mess of a system. It can work to some extent but you have to not be an idiot and implement it in one location with one place to fail. It needs to be on a state by state basis where if a single state fails it doesn't take out the whole system.

Where that will fail is that eventually if a state fails it will again look to federal program. This then puts the pressure back on federal to help the failing states. This then comes from the other states and at a certain point you will have a domino collapse of the system.

Just like what Obama is building now. We will have 20 little greeces.

Sate programs already exist for the low income. It's competition to your federal dream land.
http://ca.db101.org/ca/programs/health_coverage/medi_cal/program.htm

Medi-Cal Services
Medi-Cal pays for a wide variety of medical expenses:

Primary Medical Care

Doctor visits
Diagnostic testing
Emergency services
Surgery
Hospitalization
Prescription drugs
Dental services
Health screenings for kids
Ongoing Care & Recovery

Personal care services (IHSS)
Occupational & physical therapy
Outpatient drug abuse services
Nursing facility stays
Adult day health care
Other medical related costs

Medical supplies
Durable medical equipment
Transportation to doctor visits
Transportation costs for children with disabilities
Depending on how you qualify for Medi-Cal, the program may pay for all of these services (full-scope Medi-Cal) or just some of them (partial-scope Medi-Cal).



and once again... lets cut defense
http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/23/world/asia/north-korea-nuclear-test/index.html?hpt=hp_t1


Seoul, South Korea (CNN) -- North Korea said Thursday that it plans to carry out a new nuclear test and further long-range rocket launches, all of which it said are a part of a new phase of confrontation with the United States.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 355
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/24/2013 5:07:30 AM

If you are in the middle you are screwed.


And it changed to this when?


It needs to be on a state by state basis


Medicaid is already administered on a state by state basis.


Seoul, South Korea (CNN) -- North Korea said Thursday that it plans to carry out a new nuclear test and further long-range rocket launches, all of which it said are a part of a new phase of confrontation with the United States.


Mali, Algeria, Iraq, Afganistan, Eygpt, Yamen...the whole Middle East, North Africa, And much of Asia...you think we can fight this eminent war you see on the horizon..or that more aircraft carriers (more than the 10 we have now) or nuclear submarines is going to somehow make those that see us as the enemy change their ways???

Did you happen to see the Isreali vote yesterday??? Netanyahu and his party lost lots of ground to moderate Isreali's who want peace with Palestine.

Perhaps it's time to make peace with the world not war.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 356
view profile
History
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/24/2013 8:43:20 AM
And it changed to this when?

Do you need assistance understanding the concept? It hasn't changed. It's been built in for a very long time. It is encouraged more and more and used as a bait and switch tactic for increasing support for the programs that cause it. It is on purpose to bring about the social revolution of the working class. Erode the structure so much that the only thing left is the haves and the have nots and then blame the haves. How many years of destructive increases in social programs that stopped benefiting years ago. The programs are necessary but their expansion should be discouraged. Instead the are used as a weapon against capitalism to disrupt it and increase the dependency on the programs.



Medicaid is already administered on a state by state basis.

Did you think you said something clever here? That was my point. These are states programs. NOT FEDERAL. Federal intrusion into these systems is going to bankrupt them. But that is the point of the intrustion. Crash the system to 'build it new'.


Did you happen to see the Isreali vote yesterday??? Netanyahu and his party lost lots of ground to moderate Isreali's who want peace with Palestine.

You may not realize it but those people in Isreal that you wish didn't exist. Many of them are very liberal and have bought into the general idea of being liberal.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203440104574402591116901498.html

One of the most extraordinary features of Barack Obama's victory over John McCain was his capture of 78% of the Jewish vote. To be sure, there was nothing extraordinary about the number itself. Since 1928, the average Jewish vote for the Democrat in presidential elections has been an amazing 75%—far higher than that of any other ethno-religious group.


Now, you say it is time to 'make peace' and not world war. This is just hippy talk. It's bs. It means nothing. History obviously means nothing to you. But you will get your opportunity. So will they. Let's see what the 'peace' actually brings. The most amazing part is that this mythical peace won't come and more people will die and you will still blame republicans and jews. It's happening in Europe now. You have no understanding that Islamist s don't like socialists either. Go ahead though. Make love not war. The worst part about what you wrote is that you put the blame on isreal. Which is typical liberal position. It is the majority democrat position. It's all isreals fault for existing. That is the palestinain position as well, and Irans, and the majority of Islamist states. It would be better if they didn't exist right? That is pretty much your position because that will be the result. And I'm sure you would feel 'sorry' if it happened.

What do you think. We should go ahead and tell N.K to just go on ahead and lob one of those bombs over here? It's alright. You won't mind. We can be friends afterwards. Just get it out of your system.

Where do you see peace?

Why is there no word of the French war on terror being equal to Bush's war on terror and how bad that was? The evil Industrial War Complex at work. Where is that now? Is it okay because Socialists did it?
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 357
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 1/24/2013 9:48:43 AM


Did you happen to see the Isreali vote yesterday??? Netanyahu and his party lost lots of ground to moderate Isreali's who want peace with Palestine.


You may not realize it but those people in Isreal that you wish didn't exist.


I have no idea what you're saying.



The Palestinian president will invite Israeli politicians to the West Bank to try to make sure peacemaking is on the new government's agenda, a senior official said Thursday, even as a top Israeli hard-liner proposed sidelining the polarizing issue.

Hoping to capitalize on the unexpected strength of moderates in Israel's incoming parliament, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas wants to sit down with representatives of Israeli parliamentary factions to discuss the possibility of settling the Israeli-Palestinian conflict peacefully, senior Palestinian official Yasser Abed Rabbo told The Associated Press.

"We invite the Israeli parties, particularly the new ones, for dialogue on future accords," Abed Rabbo said.
Senior Palestinian official Yasser Abed Rabbo said Thursday they plan to invite Israeli politicians to the West Bank to try to make sure peacemaking is on the new government's agenda. (Majdi Mohammed/Associated Press)
He did not say when the invitations would go out, but emphasized that Abbas wanted the meeting to take place before Israel forms its next government — a process that is expected to take several weeks.

Tuesday's parliamentary vote ended in a surprise deadlock between a hawkish, religious bloc and a camp of centrist, secular and Arab parties. While Benjamin Netanyahu, as head of the largest single party in parliament, appears set to remain prime minister, he can't put together a stable coalition without drawing in moderates beyond his traditional hardline and religious base.

He has already extended his hand to a new centrist party that advocates more serious efforts to end the decades-old Israeli-Palestinian conflict.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/01/24/israel-netanyahu-lieberman-palestinians-peacemaking.html




Let's see what the 'peace' actually brings


Generally, peace promotes prosperity...war promotes debt and economic instability.


We should go ahead and tell N.K to just go on ahead and lob one of those bombs over here?


Hahahaha...really, you need to stop drinking the coolaid...N K's military spending hasn't gotten them so far that they can actually launch anything that will make it out of the China Sea....and has only driven their economy into the toilet.


Why is there no word of the French war on terror being equal to Bush's war on terror and how bad that was?


Are you speaking of France's involvement in Mali??? What have they got for troop number's in Mali??? Something like 1600??? Hardly a war that compares to Iraq.



French intervention in Mali has now produced the fastest blowback yet in the war on terror. The groups that seized the In Imenas gas plant last week – reportedly with weapons supplied to Libya by France and Britain – insisted their action was taken in response to France's operation, Algeria's decision to open its airspace to the French and western looting of the country's natural resources.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/22/mali-fastest-blowback-war-on-terror



Federal intrusion into these systems is going to bankrupt them.


How so???


These are states programs


Oh let me explain this to you...Medicaid is a federal program that is state administrated...
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