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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...      Home login  
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 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 76
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Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...Page 4 of 16    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16)

When you understand someone who leans left is not a leftist anymore you will be on your way to understanding.

When you understand that it is real you will be on your way to understanding.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 77
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/13/2012 6:45:16 AM
this is the leftists way...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyjvWTfcnvA

violence and assualt and destruction of freedom.

All the lies about who these people are will come out.


Too funny...most hate groups that resort to violence in America today coud be said had views that mirror some of the righist views.

It's been argued that retyrning to pre_Bush tax levels on incomes over $250,000 will not have any effect on reducing the debt...it seems as though this become the focal point of the right and ignores all other revenue raising efforts and spending cuts that have been proposed by democrats....a miopic viewpoint
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 78
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/13/2012 7:15:39 AM
"violence and assualt and destruction of freedom"

Is that anything like during the primaries, when republicans stomped some lady who showed up at one of their rallies, I think in Virginia? Or when the tea party showed up at events with guns and spit on legislators?

Violence on either side is not right...if you think your sides hands are bloodless...you're wrong!
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 79
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/13/2012 7:53:47 AM

When you understand that it is real you will be on your way to understanding.

Yeah if by real, you mean like this one that was selectively edited by Fox.

UPDATE:Fox uses Breitbart-style video editing from Michigan RTW rally to show "union thug brutality"
Wed Dec 12, 2012 at 05:14 AM PST
by EclectablogFollow

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/12/1169171/-Fox-News-uses-Breitbart-style-video-editing-from-Michigan-RTW-rally-to-show-union-thug-brutality



Though I do love the irony when someone claim others need to understand, when all they can understand is propaganda.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 80
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History
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/13/2012 9:30:22 AM

Though I do love the irony when someone claim others need to understand, when all they can understand is propaganda.

How do you possibly link republican propaganda with with the words of democratic leadership calling for blood? At least others didn't try to cover it up. At least other democratic leaders made him recant. At least others acknowledged a f*d up part of their party. They just don't know that that part runs their entire party. Not the people. The leaders.


"There will be blood, there will be repercussions," State Democratic Rep. Douglas Geiss, speaking on the House floor on Tuesday, warned ahead of the votes.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2012/12/13/boehner-fiscal-cliff/1766559/

"The president wants to pretend spending isn't the problem. That's why we don't have an agreement," Boehner said. "Unfortunately, the White House is so unserious about cutting spending that it appears willing to slow-walk our economy right up to -- and over -- the fiscal cliff."



So, if Obama won't entertain a single cut and only wants a meaningless tax increase on top of the other concessions. Who is really purposely going to raise taxes on all of you? He also wants sole control over raising the debt ceiling. How could anyone possibly agree to that. Obama is screwing everyone and no one believes it.

Why shouldn't anyone see this as an attempt to hijack and tank the economy?
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 81
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/13/2012 9:38:18 AM

words of democratic leadership calling for blood


Oh bullshyte...what democrat leaders called for blood? Where do you make this shyte up??


So, if Obama won't entertain a single cut and only wants a meaningless tax increase on top of the other concessions.


Once again proving that anyone can get medicinal pot in California.

President Obama has proposed actual spending cuts...not just a dollar number like the repuglicants....our President has listed the area's he would cut the budget.

In addition, our President has layed out exactly where to increase taxes and which tax loopholes to fill and deductions to take away...and the middle class mortgage deduction is not on the democrat table...unlike the repuglicant proposals.

Did anyone see that horses ass Grover Nordquist on The News Hour last night...what a friggin liar.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 82
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/13/2012 10:29:55 AM

So, if Obama won't entertain a single cut and only wants a meaningless tax increase on top of the other concessions...

What is left to cut?

Do you want to cut social spending today only to pass on the cost to a future generation?

Do you understand social spending is done for the benefit of the people and cutting that funding will mean higher costs to everyone in the long run?



Why Republicans Can’t Propose Spending Cuts
Yesterday at 12:46 PM
By Jonathan Chait

“Where are the president’s spending cuts?” asks John Boehner. With Republicans coming to grips with their inability to stop taxes on the rich from rising, the center of the debate has turned to the expenditure side. In the short run, the two parties have run into an absurd standoff, where Republicans demand that President Obama produce an offer of higher spending cuts, and Obama replies that Republicans should say what spending cuts they want, and Republicans insist that Obama should try to guess what kind of spending cuts they would like...

...There really isn’t money to be cut everywhere. The United States spends way less money on social services than do other advanced countries, and even that low figure is inflated by our sky-high health-care prices. The retirement benefits to programs like Social Security are quite meager. Public infrastructure is grossly underfunded.

The Bowles-Simpson “plan” was an earnest and badly needed attempt to reconcile the GOP’s hazy belief that government is enormous with reality. They did everything they could possibly do: They brought in representatives from all sides for long meetings with budget experts, going through all aspects of federal policy in detail, in the hope of reaching an agreement on the proper scope of government and how to pay for it. It failed. The Bowles-Simpson plan wound up punting on all the major questions because it simply couldn’t bridge that gulf between perception and reality. That’s why, in lieu of any ability to identify government functions to eliminate, the plan simply pretended the federal government could have everybody do a lot more work for less pay...

Read more about how the republicans are again making sh*t up at:
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2012/12/why-republicans-cant-propose-spending-cuts.html
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 83
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/13/2012 1:51:02 PM

this is the leftists way...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyjvWTfcnvA

violence and assualt and destruction of freedom.

All the lies about who these people are will come out.

ROFLMAO

So when the bs fails to go anywhere what is the next step...? Why, it's try to pull the thread off-topic...
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 84
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History
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/13/2012 6:01:41 PM
Oh bullshyte...what democrat leaders called for blood? Where do you make this shyte up??


yeah... right


http://www.mlive.com/opinion/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2012/12/post_12.html

If union opponents were hoping to portray organized labor as unruly, they got the images they were hoping for, as an angry group tore down a tent, state police stood in riot gear and Teamsters leader Jimmy Hoffa in a television interview promised “a civil war.” There are ways to passionately debate legislative activity without resorting to actions that cast an unflattering light on union members across the state to a national audience.



State Rep. Doug Geiss, D-Taylor, is usually level headed and thoughtful. But his threatening “There will be blood. There will be repercussions” in a House floor speech is regrettable at best and dangerous at worst. There’s no place for that type of rhetoric, even in the most passionate debate.


Okay... you win. This isn't happening. It's a republican run media plot to make you nice people look mean. Probably run by Rush and Grover. The wealthy 1% are engineering the poor destitute union workers into utter slavery and destitution over 3% possible tax raise for the next year.

They are such bad bad bad religious right wing nut jobs with their hands over their wallets and their heads in the bibles dreaming of their past greatness when they ran with the dinosaurs and with God.

Have fun falling off the cliff. Hope your not too close to the edge and your food stamps cant' be increased because the cost of everything has risen so high and all the programs are frozen. You get what you voted for. Be at peace with it.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 85
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/13/2012 6:20:07 PM
Outgoing Rep. Dave Agema, R-Grandville, wasn’t much better. As mounted police were pushing back protesters, and officers were using mace to subdue others, Agema wrote on Facebook that he felt like he was back in the Air Force. “I'm rather enjoying this," Agema wrote. "It brings back memories." That is inappropriate.
http://www.mlive.com/opinion/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2012/12/post_12.html


Oh, let's not distort the facts...your article also quoted a Repuglicant calling for blood too....of course, it always feels better to claim it's one sided and en masse...but the facts are the article you posted uses 2 politicians from both parties.

But, let's not stray so far from the topic...Boner has repeatedly come back to the President with nothing...no changes...no real proposals...no idea's for budget cuts...he's just wanting the dem's to let him know what butget cuts he won't approve....meanwhile the country is increasingly seeing repuglicant obstructionism as the cause for no deal.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 86
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History
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/13/2012 6:44:21 PM

But, let's not stray so far from the topic...Boner has repeatedly come back to the President with nothing...no changes...no real proposals...no idea's for budget cuts...he's just wanting the dem's to let him know what butget cuts he won't approve....meanwhile the country is increasingly seeing repuglicant obstructionism as the cause for no deal.


It isn't about the % in taxes. It's NOT CUTTING SPENDING and demanding 100% control over the debt ceiling. The amount of taxes (as things unfolded are virtually nothing).

Part of me wants Boehner to just say yes to the low side of the tax increase so it can move on to spending cuts. But this is all just a game. Not playing may be the right thing to do. Not caving on the taxes obscures the truth of Obama wanting to go over the fiscal cliff. Caving into an unrealistic taking of individuals money is playing games with other peoples money that have no protection from Government. There is no winning so what do you do... Give the people what the voted for? The fiscal cliff.

I swear.. the motivations may or may not be true but the outcome of all of this makes the movie "Obama's America" look like a revelation. The destruction of America, torching of the economy, downsize of the military, loss of command of world affairs... If there is a rule to not negotiate with terrorists... which side fits the bill here? The one taking or the one giving? Do you really believe everything on your side is 'the right thing to do?"

You got what you voted for. You voted for this lockup. You voted for the guy that promised to not negotiate. Enjoy... you won. This is what winning feels like.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 87
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/13/2012 6:50:08 PM
I swear.. the motivations may or may not be true but the outcome of all of this makes the movie "Obama's America" look like a revelation. The destruction of America, torching of the economy, downsize of the military, loss of command of world affairs... If there is a rule to not negotiate with terrorists... which side fits the bill here? The one taking or the one giving? Do you really believe everything on your side is 'the right thing to do?"


Then what's the repuglicant proposal for budget cut's...nada..nothing...just more obstructionism...same ole same ole..
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 88
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Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/13/2012 7:07:19 PM

Then what's the repuglicant proposal for budget cut's...nada..nothing...just more obstructionism...same ole same ole.


It's simple. He's asking for concessions from the largest part of spending and is requiring that Obama make the choice on what gets cut. He's not saying which parts to cut because the Entitlement spending is Democrats. They should decide what is going to cut. If the answer is nothing then additional revenue is nothing. Stalemate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/14/us/politics/obama-and-boehner-to-meet-again-on-fiscal-talks.html

Mr. Boehner dug in on demands that Mr. Obama lay out more concrete cuts to Medicare and other entitlements as the price for tax increases on the rich.



It's all painted everywhere to look like Republicans are blocking progress. But simple... Will you raise taxes? When you tell me what entitlements we can cut. No deal.

If Obama won't cut then what is the point of any % of tax increase.

You voted for it. This is what you won. So far nothing you guys have tried to get a slam dunk on has really any weight. This is a several year old argument. All of the arguments against this are, that it is theft, a pattern of communist/socialist behavior, and even just out right power grab all have relevant points to some degree. The only thing you have is, "the 1% are crazy religious racist bad people that can't do math".
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 89
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/13/2012 7:15:14 PM
Let's not cut defense...or corporate welfare...just medicare medicaid and social security...and leave the rich alone because supply side and trickle down economics have proven to work so well....said with great sarcastic intent
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 90
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History
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/13/2012 7:23:12 PM

Let's not cut defense...or corporate welfare...just medicare medicaid and social security...and leave the rich alone because supply side and trickle down economics have proven to work so well....said with great sarcastic intent


Wasn't defense already huge on the cut back list? Isn't that already pretty much decided? If you understood what happens to a dollar on its path through the economic system you might have a chance at understanding what 'trickle down' was intended to mean. You can't prove it wrong. You may disagree with the conclusion but its still fact.

Go throw a rock through your neighbors window... (I'm sure if he is a rich white guy you wouldn't mind) then watch the chain of money that gets initiated to fix the glass. You can't emulate that with idiot maneuvers like bailing out ONE car company or picking Solyndra or worse... lowering the F*N taxes on specific medical device manufactures to 'generate jobs'.

The attempt at 'pick a winner' economics is just plain idiocy. But here comes the mindless retort for repugnicants.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 91
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/14/2012 4:20:28 AM

Wasn't defense already huge on the cut back list? Isn't that already pretty much decided?

It was only decided once it was established that the USA has fewer horses and bayonets than it did in 1916, and thus no justification was found for massive spending increases for the military, of which Romney was proposing.




...If you understood what happens to a dollar on its path through the economic system you might have a chance at understanding what 'trickle down' was intended to mean. You can't prove it wrong. You may disagree with the conclusion but its still fact.

Actually facts prove you wrong, unless you can explain the lack on increased economic performance while the tax rate has been going down.

Along with the majority of economists.




Go throw a rock through your neighbors window... (I'm sure if he is a rich white guy you wouldn't mind) then watch the chain of money that gets initiated to fix the glass. You can't emulate that with idiot maneuvers like bailing out ONE car company or picking Solyndra or worse... lowering the F*N taxes on specific medical device manufactures to 'generate jobs'.

The Economy, you clearly have no idea how it works.




The attempt at 'pick a winner' economics is just plain idiocy. But here comes the mindless retort for repugnicants.

Every decision government makes picks winners and losers, and your failure to understand that, is just that, your failure to understand.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 92
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History
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/14/2012 4:41:19 AM
The problem with the current GOP idea of "trickle down," is that it has nothing to do with the version that they pretend it does.

For "old school" trickle-down, or supply-side stuff to work, the economy has to be stagnating due to insufficient supply of goods and services, due to the lack of investment capital. The customer base exists, and is prepared to buy, but can't, due to a lack of offerings. In that scenario, increasing investment capital through lower taxes on the rich, might well tip the balance positively.

The reason why our economy boomed in times past, though, was ALWAYS because there were relatively high-paid PEASANTS AND MIDDLE CLASS peoples, to act as a customer base. NEVER because the upper classes had lots of cash. Anyone who claims otherwise, has never bothered to actually look at the past, and is simply indulging in wishful thinking.

All anyone with the will to think things through really has to do, is to ask them selves (and answer honestly), if they are more likely to hire someone to help them in some way if they have a high income, or if they are barely scraping by.

If you lie, and claim that you will pay to have things done when you are broke, then you are either a fool, destined for debtors prison, or you are a GOP politician.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 93
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/14/2012 5:28:57 AM
I do notice how quickly we dropped this off topic subject:


Outgoing Rep. Dave Agema, R-Grandville, wasn’t much better. As mounted police were pushing back protesters, and officers were using mace to subdue others, Agema wrote on Facebook that he felt like he was back in the Air Force. “I'm rather enjoying this," Agema wrote. "It brings back memories." That is inappropriate.
http://www.mlive.com/opinion/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2012/12/post_12.html


Thanks lads...it was too late last night for me to make a rebuttal on supply side/trickle down Reganomics.



...If you understood what happens to a dollar on its path through the economic system you might have a chance at understanding what 'trickle down' was intended to mean. You can't prove it wrong. You may disagree with the conclusion but its still fact.

Actually facts prove you wrong, unless you can explain the lack on increased economic performance while the tax rate has been going down.

Along with the majority of economists.



The reason why our economy boomed in times past, though, was ALWAYS because there were relatively high-paid PEASANTS AND MIDDLE CLASS peoples, to act as a customer base. NEVER because the upper classes had lots of cash. Anyone who claims otherwise, has never bothered to actually look at the past, and is simply indulging in wishful thinking


The basic premise of supply side is:

As in classical economics, supply-side economics proposed that production or supply is the key to economic prosperity and that consumption or demand is merely a secondary consequence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply-side_economics

Frankly, it is demand that is the key and then supply becomes necessary...with only 2% of the country having the where with all to purchase any amount of supply goes unpurchased.

I think we're all still waiting for Reganomics trickle down theory to work for us:

Trickle-Down Economic Theory:
Trickle-down economic theory is based upon supply-side economics. This theory states general tax cuts, to businesses and workers, will translate to increased economic growth. Businesses will invest, as in trickle-down economics, but workers will also spend the extra cash, further stimulating demand. Trickle-down theory is more exclusive than supply-side theory, in that it states that specific types of tax cuts -- corporate, capital gains, and savings -- work better than general tax cuts.
Trickle-Down Economics Is Based on the Laffer Curve:
Proponents of both trickle-down and supply-side economics point to the Laffer Curve for their proof of how well tax reductions can stimulate the economy. Economist Arthur Laffer showed how tax cuts provide a powerful multiplication effect. Over time, tax cuts drive business growth and additional hiring so much that eventually the government revenue lost from the cuts is replaced. That's because the expanded, successful economy provides a larger tax base.
However, Laffer points out that this effect works best when taxes are in the "Prohibitive Range." If taxes are already low, then tax cuts will do nothing more than reduce government revenue -- without stimulating additional economic growth.
Trickle-Down Economics and Reaganomics:
During the Reagan Administration it seemed that trickle-down economics worked. Reagan cut taxes significantly -- the top tax rate fell from 70% (for those earning $108,000+) to 28% (for anyone with an income of $18,500 or more). The corporate tax rate was also cut, from 48% to 34%. Reaganomics was successful in ending the 1980 recession. This was amazing, since the recession was marked by both double-digit unemployment and inflation, a dreadful situation known as stagflation.
Did Trickle-Down Economics Work?:
However, it's difficult to say whether trickle-down economics was the only reason for the prosperity. That's because, while Reagan cut taxes, he also increased government spending -- by 2.5% a year. Reagan nearly tripled the Federal debt, which went from $997 billion in 1981 to $2.85 trillion in 1989. This spending went primarily to defense, in support of Reagan's successful efforts to end the Cold War and bring down the Soviet Union. Therefore, trickle-down economics was never really tested, since government spending is also a spur to economic growth. (Source: Library of Economics and Liberty, Reaganomics, William A. Niskanen)

http://useconomy.about.com/od/Politics/p/Trickle-Down-Economics-Does-It-Work.htm


 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 94
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History
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/14/2012 8:53:25 AM

However, it's difficult to say whether trickle-down economics was the only reason for the prosperity. That's because, while Reagan cut taxes, he also increased government spending -- by 2.5% a year. Reagan nearly tripled the Federal debt, which went from $997 billion in 1981 to $2.85 trillion in 1989. This spending went primarily to defense, in support of Reagan's successful efforts to end the Cold War and bring down the Soviet Union. Therefore, trickle-down economics was never really tested, since government spending is also a spur to economic growth. (Source: Library of Economics and Liberty, Reaganomics, William A. Niskanen)


Yes!

Our money is created by debt.

If you reduce taxes on everyone then everyone has more flexibility to use earned income for various reasons. No particular purpose. Just in what ever way they deem fit. This includes spending, saving, throwing away vicariously and investing wisely. Uncontrolled and widely distributed.

Combine that with an expansion of debt through Government spending on Finite needs. The easy federal project is the military. Reagan's defense spending also improved external contractors and and other industries that provide advanced and specialized resources to meet the defense objectives. This input of additional money into the economy occurred in higher paying and skilled industries and created an expansion of higher paid wage earners which then were able to contribute to the economy and this was also a big part of the debt being used in a way to generate money.

Entitlement spending is increasing debt without a sustained increase in real economic progression. It is simply debt. With the large amount of non wealth generating debt that we have their is no creation of wealth only an ever increasing bill to borrow against or to increasingly raise taxes to meet the black hole demand.

The two different forms of spending have very different economic impacts.

There was an abuse of this method that started with Bush. However, I kind of think that Bush was just not really smart enough to understand the impact of what he was doing. Really the only reason Bush was able to spend so much on wars at this time is because he also agreed to huge growth in entitlement spending which basically allowed everyone in Government to spend without giving a crap of consequences. Obama has just kept this going and it is not sustainable and will only lead to further economic slowness and and even greater loss of jobs with only the few exceptions of the businesses that he picks to attempt to spur growth. It just makes no sense.

Money is entirely made up and it's value is virtually arbitrary. The only value it has is the general agreement of its use. A resource backed currency can not grow fast enough to sustain the scale of society. Debt creates money out of nothing and if you don't use that wisely any money created from this debt never actually makes it to the economy. Government programs of assistance are this economic black hole. Yes, the programs are required but they must have wisdom behind them with clear guidance for qualifications and for moving people through the system with a goal of being off the system and independent.

But no... thats just mean. It's better to crash the world then to use it wisely.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 95
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/14/2012 9:09:29 AM

If you reduce taxes on everyone then everyone has more flexibility to use earned income for various reasons. No particular purpose. Just in what ever way they deem fit. This includes spending, saving, throwing away vicariously and investing wisely. Uncontrolled and widely distributed.

That statement is somewhat correct but you are forgetting one major component.

When you put the money in the hands of the people that will spend it, those things happen, when you put the money in the hands of those that already have a bunch of it, they do not put it back into the economy, they horde it away and the affects of the tax breaks are not seen.

Thus the idea of reducing the break given to the rich and adding a small break to the poor.

Though keep in mind that the vast majority of breaks are still and even if the Bush tax cuts expire still will be given to the rich as this whole entitlement meme is just that, nothing more than a meme made up to hide the fact that the rich enjoy massive tax breaks and as a % of income pay a fraction of what the poor pay. (All taxes)




Entitlement spending is increasing debt without a sustained increase in real economic progression.

That is a failure to understand how social spending works as was found out in Texas when they decided to de-fund PP by some $73million and will now be faced with a bill of some $270million.

Read more about this at:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/07/us/likely-increase-in-births-has-some-lawmakers-revisiting-cuts.html?howisbabbyformed&_r=1&
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 96
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/14/2012 9:26:01 AM
Everything that the Budget Control Act of 2011 put into place for 1/1/2013 is now off the table and we are starting fresh...therefore, there is no proposed defense cuts going forward....of course, unless we are pushed off the cliff without a new deal in place...then everything in the BCA of 2011 happens.

So, with all the public opinion going against the GOP obstructionism...one would think that the GOP would have a good solid plan for cutting spending...they do not...instead they chose to sit back and have the President propose spending cuts so that they can then become further obstructionists and shoot down any cuts the President proposes;

ussing the looming "fiscal cliff" Thursday, House Speaker John Boehner said that President Obama "is just not serious about cutting spending." On Wednesday, in a speech in which he again accused the president of a lack of seriousness, Boehner asked, "Where are the president's spending cuts?"


.
It's a strange question, when you think about it. It's not the president, after all, that is particularly interested in cutting spending. Mr. Obama has made clear that his priority in helping to address the debt and deficit is increasing revenue - the money coming into the government. And he has made clear a major component of how he wants to do it: By letting tax rates on income over $250,000 revert from 35 percent to the Clinton-era level of 39.6 percent.


Boehner and his fellow Republicans are the ones who say that spending cuts should be the priority. It thus follows that they would be the ones to offer ideas about specific spending cuts. To date, they have not. When reporters ask what Republicans would cut, GOP aides refer to three documents: The 2012 House GOP budget, 2011 testimony by Democrat Erskine Bowles, and the Sequester Replacement Reconciliation Act that would replace the automatic cuts to defense that are part of the "fiscal cliff" with cuts to food stamp and other mandatory programs.


There are two big problems with that response. One, which was discussed here, is that Republicans are broadly proposing to replace the $1.2 trillion in automatic spending cuts in the "fiscal cliff," which are split between defense and domestic spending, with $1.2 trillion in cuts focused only on domestic spending. Democrats have no incentive to accept such a deal, and plenty of reason to reject it.



The bigger problem is that Republicans refuse to make clear exactly what they want to cut in a "fiscal cliff" deal. Telling reporters to look at an old House budget is not the same as making a concrete offer. CBS News asked a Boehner representative for a clear statement of what the House speaker wants to cut on Thursday. We did not receive a response.


Boehner's supporters might argue that Mr. Obama has a responsibility to offer spending cuts, since Boehner has already made an offer on revenue. But that argument doesn't hold up: While Boehner has said he is willing to accept $800 billion in additional revenue - a significant concession - he won't say how he would get there. He says he would reform the tax code in part by closing loopholes and deductions, but he won't say which ones.

The $800 billion offer is thus little more than a target. "Republicans put out a letter that has more signatures than it had ideas," House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi said Thursday. "It had, like, one number." To use Boehner's own formulation: Where, exactly, are the speaker's revenue increases?


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57559106/where-are-the-gops-fiscal-cliff-spending-cuts/
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 97
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History
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/14/2012 9:45:58 AM

That is a failure to understand how social spending works as was found out in Texas when they decided to de-fund PP by some $73million and will now be faced with a bill of some $270million.

Read more about this at:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/07/us/likely-increase-in-births-has-some-lawmakers-revisiting-cuts.html?howisbabbyformed&_r=1&


This is only a mild contradiction to what I said. I said the programs were required to some degree. However they have to be watched with clear objectives on the programs to move people through the system and not retain them indefinitely. There is always going to be a % of people that will require permanence. This is where cuts come from. Not those with permanence but with those that should be transitioning.

That can't happen without jobs.

Picking random companies with a dartboard isn't going to get you there.

Obama is 100% committed to playing chicken with the economy. So, he is being met with the same. People should be feeling good for their choice now. They are getting exactly what they voted for.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 98
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/14/2012 10:28:48 AM

Obama is 100% committed to playing chicken with the economy. So, he is being met with the same. People should be feeling good for their choice now. They are getting exactly what they voted for.


Exactly...we voted for someone to stand up to the GOP machine that has put this country into the dire straights it is in today....and we refuse to let obstrunistic repuglicants push us over the edge of the cliff without holding them directly accountable.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 99
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History
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/14/2012 10:40:36 AM
Exactly...we voted for someone to stand up to the GOP machine that has put this country into the dire straights it is in today....and we refuse to let obstrunistic repuglicants push us over the edge of the cliff without holding them directly accountable.


And everyone that isn't you voted for standing up against the leftist destruction of the economy and country and putting all of us and our future into the dire straits it is today. We refuse to let opportunistic and totalitarian overlords push us over the edge of the cliff without holding them directly accountable

There. I guess we can all sit back and wait for two people to decide your future. Where is the right of self determination in this? The country didn't vote for Obama and Boehner to rule.

IF congress does its job and passes legislation Obama will reject it. Obama wont give on any concessions.

Stalemate. Cliff. The country gets what it voted for. Obama's nation of division. Pretty simple isn't it. How you communicate matters and if that is how its going to be... WTF do you think everyone is just going to bow to your anger?
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 100
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/14/2012 10:55:31 AM

And everyone that isn't you voted for standing up against the leftist destruction of the economy and country and putting all of us and our future into the dire straits it is today...

They also voted for someone that wanted to increase military spending by some 2 trillion, which may be reminiscent of the last republican to hold office that took a country in the black to deep in the red.

Why do you dismiss facts and logic?





...We refuse to let opportunistic and totalitarian overlords push us over the edge of the cliff without holding them directly accountable.

If you really felt that way you would be asking for Bush's head on a platter.
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