Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 176
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...Page 8 of 16    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16)

The "impasse" is indeed fairly blamed on both sides of the aisle, but the "fiscal cliff" is 100% Obama's creation. Yes, Igor, Obama created the fiscal cliff as a bit of political theater to fool the masses into accepting austerity. Here's a little bit of truth for you, from an honest progressive (yes, they are extremely rare, but they do exist.) It's from the Real News Network, a progressive site that attempts to find and report the truth.

Well you can let them know they failed, as The Fiscal Cliff is a product of the US Congress.


On August 2, 2011, Congress passed the Budget Control Act of 2011 as part of an agreement to resolve the debt-ceiling crisis. The Act provided for a Joint Select Committee on Deficit Reduction (the "super committee") to produce legislation by late November that would decrease the deficit by $1.2 trillion over ten years. When the super committee failed to act,[*] another part of the BCA went into effect.

This directed automatic across-the-board cuts (known as "sequestrations") split evenly between defense and domestic spending, beginning on January 2, 2013. Also, the Affordable Care Act imposed new taxes on families making more than $250,000 a year ($200,000 for individuals) starting at the same time.[**]

* - http://cybercemetery.unt.edu/archive/deficit/20120113174127/http://www.deficitreduction.gov/public/index.cfm/pressreleases?ID=fa0e02f6-2cc2-4aa6-b32a-3c7f6155806d

** - http://www.christianpost.com/news/winners-and-losers-in-the-debt-limit-debate-53299/
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 177
view profile
History
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/28/2012 11:07:58 AM

The "impasse" is indeed fairly blamed on both sides of the aisle, but the "fiscal cliff" is 100% Obama's creation. Yes, Igor, Obama created the fiscal cliff as a bit of political theater to fool the masses into accepting austerity. Here's a little bit of truth for you, from an honest progressive (yes, they are extremely rare, but they do exist.) It's from the Real News Network, a progressive site that attempts to find and report the truth.


Someone that I can agree with on at least one thing.

If something is obtained through misdirection and basically lying... How likely is it to turn out good.
 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 178
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/28/2012 2:31:58 PM
Conservative Republicans will not vote to raise taxes.
period.
as any deal requires that...
there can be no deal.
period.

Now it's all about shifting blame.

The only ones buying into the blame Obama meme
are other conservatives.
Everyone else....
knows who is being stubborn.

As for Obama manipulating this...
certainly.
He's keen to reduce the deficit.
No deal will do so.

The recession has already started and is baked in no matter what happens.
Republicans will own it.
Pretty clever of Obama to get his own desire for austerity tied to Republican stubbornness.
But clever is what wins elections.
:-P
 PGL7
Joined: 8/7/2010
Msg: 179
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/28/2012 3:13:33 PM
Please explain again how Obama "is keen to reduce the deficit"?

Today he proposed tax increases with no budget cuts in fact he wants to put off budget cuts till later next year.
Also in fact, in Washington budget "cuts" are not really cuts.
They are just reduction in growth and as such the deficit continues to grow.


Why should Republicans vote to raise taxes.
The problem isn't taxes it's spending!

The US deficit and debt is out of control and until serious steps are taken your economy will flounder.
The US AAA (Since 1941) credit rating was lost in 2011 will there be a second reduction in 2013?
What happens if another downgrade (to A) occurs.
Good luck.

At some point mom and dad have to act sensibly and stop spending more than they earn.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 180
view profile
History
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/28/2012 3:21:03 PM
Okay, those who want to claim that Obama made up the "cliff," have to show that he wrote the laws that Congress passed, which set it up. That's it. Show me how Obama alone, passed laws through both houses of Congress, which created the automatic cuts. Then I will accept your claim.

As for the tax increases that are part of the "cliff," they also were written into the legislation BY CONGRESS which passed the original reductions. They were set up to be temporary. They will expire. Congress did this, not Obama acting alone.

As for the "cliff" designation itself, that is a media creation. There is no law labeled "Cliff" on the books.

So again, lets have ACTUAL facts, not imagined confabulations.

I'm not claiming that Obama or anyone else does not share responsibility for decisions made by the Government, but I do insist that we blame people ACCURATELY, else we will never solve anything.

Yes, BOTH parties (all three if you imagine that the Tea Party is actually independent) are playing chicken with the various laws that they participated in setting up. The reason I started this thread, was to focus on the conundrum the Republicans who signed the "no tax increases" pledge, set themselves up for. Logically, it should have cost them their own ability to use the threat of the "cliff" as leverage.


And by the way, Congress created the Debt Ceiling, too. The folks who think raising it means that whoever is President at the time is a "spendthrift," simply know absolutely nothing at all about which they speak.
 Dcmotz1
Joined: 7/10/2012
Msg: 181
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/28/2012 3:21:08 PM
Yes PLG7...
You are right on target! Obama wants add more money to the deficit, he does not want a budget. He does not give a damn about our debt, all he wants is to keep his supporters happy and the handout flowing!
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 182
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/28/2012 3:37:42 PM
What is this? A replay of Groundhog day the movie? Hahahahaha!

So you want to re-argue the election? Forget it, it's over...

All you armchair economists...where TF were you when shrub was kicking the nations checkbook around?

The republicants engineered this deal back in august 2011, thinking they would be able to foist more nonsense on us all in the next round of cuts...then the committee failed to reach consenus...and deadlocked the cuts were scheduled to be enacted...

Then we had the photo op last month with all the republicants saying they "might" or would be willing to look at tax increases...they lied...as republicants ALWAYS do....

The election was won by Obama in a convincing manner, based on raising taxes.

Hell, if you guys would stop with your selective memory, you can think back to when Obama offered a BIG deal on spending cuts, REFUSED by Boner and the tea party...

This is a republican problem, created by republicans, trying to goober smooch their pals the rich...end of story
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 183
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/29/2012 6:50:35 AM

The republicants engineered this deal back in august 2011, thinking they would be able to foist more nonsense on us all in the next round of cuts...then the committee failed to reach consenus...and deadlocked the cuts were scheduled to be enacted...


The return to pre-Bush taxes along with equal cuts in defense and the social safety net is the "fiscal cliff"...yet, every current GOP proposal includes an increase in defense spending to the tune of $100 billion...so much emphasis on cutting social programs while increasing defense spending is the current GOP mantra...why is this???
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 184
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/29/2012 6:59:08 AM

every current GOP proposal includes an increase in defense spending to the tune of $100 billion...so much emphasis on cutting social programs while increasing defense spending is the current GOP mantra...why is this???

Because dead babies can not fight the rich mans war.
 Dcmotz1
Joined: 7/10/2012
Msg: 185
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/29/2012 10:28:37 AM

Because dead babies can not fight the rich mans war.



And the ignorance of this statement is astounding!
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 186
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/29/2012 10:40:35 AM

You are right on target! Obama wants add more money to the deficit, he does not want a budget. He does not give a damn about our debt, all he wants is to keep his supporters happy and the handout flowing!


The ignorance of this statement is asstounding
 Dcmotz1
Joined: 7/10/2012
Msg: 187
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/29/2012 11:00:11 AM
My lil liberal buddy Irish....my statement is true however! lol
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 188
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/29/2012 11:06:48 AM
My lil liberal buddy Irish....my statement is true however! lol


My delusional friend...there is no socialist conspiracy to comunize America...just a wide difference of opinion on what needs to be cut from the budget and how to pay for the necessities of running our country....sadly, increased defense spending is not a budget cut...nor is paring down the social safety net to the bone -because, in the long run-this paring to the bare bone of the social safety net will cost our great country far greater.
 PGL7
Joined: 8/7/2010
Msg: 189
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/29/2012 12:39:39 PM
The Republicans should hold out.
Let the US economy go over the fiscal cliff.
Give the Democrats what they want.

What level of taxes (on the rich) is enough?
39% today, 45% tomorrow... 80% in 20?? ?

At some point you cannot extract any more.
At some point Atlas Shrug's then what does the left do?

Where do their new revenues come from?
All the while more and more Americans go on welfare as jobs bleed away as capital is drained from the US.
What incentive is there for accomplishment in the Obama led USA.
He has demonized success and the successful.
Even though the top 1% already pay a larger portion of the US tax income they are pushed farther.
Sure they most likely can absorb it in the short term but at what cost in the long term to the nation.
After they finish running up the percentage on the Top 1% what next but of course the top 1% becomes the Top 2% then the Top 3% then.... Do you get Obama's and the Dems drift?

It's a simple plan in reality, grab power by giving away other peoples money then maintain power by giving away more money. Brilliant!
But eventually that brilliance fades as the money pool runs out!

First they came for the Top 1%",
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a 1%er.

Then they came for the 2%,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a 2%er.

Then they came for the 3%er,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a 3%er.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.

Who is John Galt?
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 190
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/29/2012 12:43:25 PM

Who is John Galt?


Who really cares???
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 191
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/29/2012 1:30:18 PM


Who is John Galt?



He must be a friend of a plagiarizer that causes topics to be erased in the POF forums!


That ratfink!!!!!!!
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 192
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/29/2012 2:05:03 PM

Who is John Galt?

He was a villainous fictional character who tried to use his wealth as a means of manipulating and controlling the world around him "from behind the curtain"... Devious, dishonest and self-absorbed...
 PGL7
Joined: 8/7/2010
Msg: 193
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/29/2012 2:30:57 PM
Ah yes the attacks of some... now it spreads to fictional characters.
Only on here could some turn a protagonist into an antagonist.

Perhaps it was the anger, insults and demagoguery that got the thread deleted?

But I digress...
Elections have consequences... Obama won give him what he wants. He ran on raising taxes. Let him raise taxes.

The question is he keeps changing what he wants.
But wait a minute "elections have consequence"... and the Republicans won the House.
They ran on no new taxes.

What a quandary...

Jump the Cliff!

John Galt and Eduardo Saverin Shrug!
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 194
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/29/2012 2:44:10 PM
Ah yes the attacks of some... now it spreads to fictional characters.
Only on here could some turn a protagonist into an antagonist.


Well, it was a great segue from the current state of affairs the GOP has put us in to the fictitous Galt...and I still think Who cares?


But I digress...


Ya think???


Let him raise taxes.


Don't worry...it won't effect you in the least...the 1% will return to pre-Bush levels....that is unless the GOP remains on their azzes and don't come up with a compromise plan that the MIDDLE can accept.


The question is he keeps changing what he wants.


Clearly, you have not read one news report about what President Obama wants...it hasn't changed...yet, Boner can't get what he wants because the Teapublicans are the other GOP.


They ran on no new taxes.


And yet will force pre-Bush taxes on us all...ironic ain't it???
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 195
view profile
History
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/29/2012 2:49:24 PM

Why should Republicans vote to raise taxes.
The problem isn't taxes it's spending!

We noticed ...

The Repugnicans don't want the poor to have Food Stamps ... let them starve ... right?

The Repugnicans don't want the unemployed to have any kind of funds (that they spend and put right back into the economy) ... let them live under a bridge and use donated rags to clothe their families ... right?

The Repugnicans could care less about all the military they sent (into two illegal wars) ... too bad they got wounded and maimed ... let them wait two or more years for help and assistance ... collateral damages just happen ... eh?

I think it's rather clear that the Repugnicans just don't want to "spend" what it takes to put the nation back together ... they are specialists (however) at tearing the nation apart and running it down the tubes.
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 196
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/29/2012 2:51:42 PM

Ah yes the attacks of some... now it spreads to fictional characters.
Only on here could some turn a protagonist into an antagonist.

Perhaps it was the anger, insults and demagoguery that got the thread deleted?

ROFLMAO

Perhaps some people need to read a bit more...

John Galt is the villian in Robert E. Howard's short story, "Black Talons"... It was written in 1933 making him the first, and original, fictional 'John Galt'...

But please, don't let me get in the way of your jumping to conclusions...
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 197
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/29/2012 4:04:42 PM

The Repugnicans could care less about all the military they sent (into two illegal wars) ... too bad they got wounded and maimed ... let them wait two or more years for help and assistance ... collateral damages just happen ... eh?


And let me tell you the extra $100BILLION they keep adding to their budget...eh..."cuts" ain't going to go to personnel...it's going to the industrial military complex.
 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 198
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/29/2012 4:08:28 PM
To answer your question PGL7,
going over the cliff will reduce the deficit
thru higher taxes.

Which is what Obama wants.
It will not affect SS, Govt healthcare, or Medicaid.
Which is what his party wants.

Yall guys want deficit reduction?
Well you are gonna get it.
Bigtime.
But not on the back of the poor or middle class.

If The Republicans could deal...
they could get a much better deal than this.
Their pigheaeded stubbornness means going over the cliff
in the liberal way.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 199
view profile
History
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/29/2012 4:51:36 PM

First they came for the Top 1%",
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a 1%er.

Then they came for the 2%,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a 2%er.

Then they came for the 3%er,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a 3%er.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.


I'm not quite sure what this is intended to say. I recognize it as another tired attempt to link someone you disagree with to Nazism, but if you are trying to say that the reason why you personally are not being taxed higher than you are, is because the top 1% earners are actively protecting you, you are severely deluded. They are among those leading the effort to make sure you and I pay for EVERYTHING, and that they pay for NOTHING.
 PGL7
Joined: 8/7/2010
Msg: 200
Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...
Posted: 12/29/2012 6:50:14 PM
Oh so much hatred to dissolve and so little time, before they tumble over the cliff that is.
Igor really... thought you were better and at least you would recognizing satire.
But alas it contradicts your world view so therefore on to the insults... et tu Igor?
For those with a difference of opinion you are brandished a racist, a Nazi sympathizer or accuser. Classic Obama!

The point is once they max out on their ability to further increase taxes on the Top 1% where will they turn next... but of course the Top 2% for aren't they just slightly eviler than the Top 1%?
But the Top 3% are only 2% less evil than the Top 1% so therefore "off with there heads"!
But first let's take all their money and incentive.
Will you speak up when they max out your tax bracket?

What is the end game?
When does it all end end?
Class envy is so short lived.

One fool on here even believes Obama's plan will cut your deficit. lol
He hasn't proposed any cuts.
And the taxes gained are miniscule.
Again Cuts in Washington are just cuts in growth.
A 4% reduction on an already planned 10% increase is no cut.
And that is what Washington does.
Smoke and mirrors, bait and switch call it what you want it's still increased expenditure.

How long can the US sustain this overspending.
How long before Greek like austerity causes riots on the streets of American cities.

Thank goodness our liberal government here in Canada put us through austerity back in the 90's. A soft landing it was but it left us in much better shape and we did not go through the same deep recession the US did.
Then again The Oil Sands sure helped out also.
Here's hoping Obama continues to shut down shale oil.

Here is an idea why doesn't the US government just end poverty.
Distribute $1,000,000 dollars to every living American.
Why this would end the need for food stamps.
Heck no one would even need to work.
No hard ship there, eh cot?

My bet is Obama gets his 2 point increase but more likely on income of $400,000 and budget reductions are punted for several months which mean they never happen.
The problems will continue and your economy will stay stagnate until the oncoming recession.

p.s. I am sure there were many John Galt's prior to 1933.

"Who is John Galt?"


You may start the insults again...
Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Can Republicans permit us to suffer the cliff...