Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Historical question: The most important person in the development of      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 51
Historical question: The most important person in the development of western culturePage 3 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)


I think the obvious winner is Jesus.


How can a fictional or composite character who may not even have existed, or at least can't be shown to have existed, be considered a person who has changed western civilization?

I think we'll need a ruling on this.
 Stray__Cat
Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 52
Historical question: The most important person in the development of western culture
Posted: 1/3/2013 6:13:32 PM
I would certainly put Jesus in the top 5 influences on western civilization.
But not as the most important person.
It was already going strong when he showed up.

And that it was....
is why we know of him today.
(fictional or not)
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 53
view profile
History
Historical question: The most important person in the development of western culture
Posted: 1/3/2013 7:17:29 PM
The reason why I added some of my support to the Constantine group, was because he saw to the promotion and increase of the influence of Christianity.

I frankly don't attribute the influence of Jesus to his brilliance, per se, and certainly not to the assertion by later followers that he had magic powers derived from a deity. As with all philosophies that have gained great followings, it was the actions of the sometimes violently aggressive "followers" who made "peace love and understanding" appear to be such an influential message. Constantine gave Jesus the support of an international military superpower.

Therefore, arguing in support of Jesus' influence MIGHT be indirectly in support of those who saw to it that Jesus was their Front Man/cover story for conquest. Remember too, that during the era of Europe's last greatest Empire building, that the favored claim of those who sought to enslave the rest of the world in order to capture their natural resources, was that they were spreading the glorious wonderfulness of Western Civilisation, especially including "God's Love."

So how much of Jesus' influence is actually spiritual/cultural, and attributable to the man himself? A standard conundrum we Historians have to ask about in ALL such discussions.
 justlookingvt
Joined: 5/8/2010
Msg: 54
Historical question: The most important person in the development of western culture
Posted: 1/3/2013 7:19:55 PM
As influential as Jesus may have been, it is only a matter of time until his influence disappears from future societies. On the other hand, the influence exerted by the Greeks, e.g Archimedes, Pythagoras, Euclid, Plato, Aristotle, et al, in the form of science, philosophy, politics and others, will be part of mankind’s existence forever.

Alexander the Great ensured the great Greek thinkers' legacy will remain indelible in past, present and future western societies.
 Artoire
Joined: 12/15/2012
Msg: 55
 Kohmelo
Joined: 9/20/2011
Msg: 56
view profile
History
Historical question: The most important person in the development of western culture
Posted: 1/5/2013 1:19:25 PM

Did Josephus exist?

Debatable if you want to go that route.
A more relevant question would be "Did Josephus exist when Jesus supposedly existed?"
The answer to that is no.
Jesus supposedly died over 60 years before Josephus mentioned him in print.
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 57
view profile
History
Historical question: The most important person in the development of western culture
Posted: 1/5/2013 1:33:57 PM
Who do I think? Me... and I hope you think, you.
The acceptance that we are individuals is the first step to co operating.

Collectivism is just another blanket cover to catch and control us while we are hiding from our true selves underneath it, believing it will protect us.
I hope the west doesn't try this "ism" on.

Being accepting of the rules and entitlements the psychopathic greedos profess we need, is being used against us, (and the rest of the world for far too long). Hopefully sooner than later, it will be recognized and abandoned.

"What are you going to do when minority means you?" [The Proclaimers}.
I hope we can give up our entitlement attitude and it doesn't have to come to war but by the sounds it, it's happening. ( with the narc on your neighbor campaigns and the divide and conquer set up that's been going on).

 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 58
Historical question: The most important person in the development of western culture
Posted: 1/5/2013 2:01:36 PM
Dameright is bang-on.

Who is the most important person? Maybe there isn't one…It isn't me…It is "us." WE are the most important "person" in western or any other culture. (of course "we" isn't a single person, so I'll have to do better than what I just said to express my thought)

We've already been through the self-serving "Me Generation", living by a philosophy that we might term "Me-ism"…It didn't work to well; all that happened was it divided us against ourselves to the point that it was really just "me against the world." This played right into the hands of the controllers as the conquest was now complete.

If we ever expect to free ourselves from the slavery of the "greedos", we have to UNITE as individuals and forget about the differences that divide us. If we can learn to do that, we can turn the world into a paradise in a heartbeat. If we can't…we are finished as a civilization and probably as a species as well. We'll have nothing to look forward to but our extinction.

I'm really uncertain who was the most important person with respect to the development of western culture, but I DO know the most important person to the development of our future culture, or even our future itself…YOU!

If you want to join hands and unite with your fellow (wo)man, then nothing stands in the way of "us." If you don't, and choose to divide yourself away from others in whatever way, then you have many obstacles facing you in a future made very uncertain for us all.

The most important person is YOU…ALL of YOU!
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 59
view profile
History
Historical question: The most important person in the development of western culture
Posted: 1/5/2013 2:22:50 PM
I say "me" because western culture is still developing.

My herstory is still being written so I'm not sure if that counts as "historical" but it may count as something and influence.
 justlookingvt
Joined: 5/8/2010
Msg: 60
Historical question: The most important person in the development of western culture
Posted: 1/5/2013 2:33:24 PM
Let’s go back to what the question is:



Historical question: The most important person in the development of western culture


While every individual in this thread is important (particularly to themselves) it is rather unlikely that any one person still alive today has been critically important “in the development of western culture” which is the target of the question and, is a development process which has taken place over centuries.
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 61
view profile
History
Historical question: The most important person in the development of western culture
Posted: 1/5/2013 4:21:45 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^
maybe not ...YET. Who knows what great movers/shakers are amongst us?

I also believe we are ever changing, so to pin western it down to just one person as if we are already defined is kind of tough to do, especially using the historical premise (that has so many holes in it) as the basis.

I still think we all can have input and it can define us as I do believe that the individual has been the most influential.

Taking responsibility for our part in the development our culture isn't egotistical, it's true.
 Smootheticate
Joined: 12/11/2011
Msg: 62
Historical question: The most important person in the development of western culture
Posted: 1/5/2013 5:08:01 PM
Jesus........................
 larissan04
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 63
Historical question: The most important person in the development of western culture
Posted: 1/5/2013 9:16:34 PM
Aristotle...is an explanation really necessary? If so, let's just say he was the cornerstone.
 Demigod1979
Joined: 12/4/2011
Msg: 64
view profile
History
Historical question: The most important person in the development of western culture
Posted: 1/5/2013 10:20:36 PM

As influential as Jesus may have been, it is only a matter of time until his influence disappears from future societies. On the other hand, the influence exerted by the Greeks, e.g Archimedes, Pythagoras, Euclid, Plato, Aristotle, et al, in the form of science, philosophy, politics and others, will be part of mankind’s existence forever.

Alexander the Great ensured the great Greek thinkers' legacy will remain indelible in past, present and future western societies.

I think Alexander was only the latest in a long line of famous Greek generals. The Greeks constantly beat back invasion from the east and there are many generals responsible for them, in the Battle of Marathon under Miltiades, in the Battle of Thermopylae under Leonidas as well as Alexander's Battle of Issus and Battle of Gaugamela. Historians look back on these battles as critically important, since if the Persians had conquered Greece then Greek culture might have been suppressed, or even snuffed out. I think Alexander's greatest impact was in breaking the power of Persia forever, ensuring that Greek culture would live on and spread throughout the Mediterranean world. And of course Greek culture heavily influenced Roman culture, which heavily influenced Christianity and the modern world as we know it.
 justlookingvt
Joined: 5/8/2010
Msg: 65
Historical question: The most important person in the development of western culture
Posted: 1/6/2013 5:41:07 AM


I think Alexander was only the latest in a long line of famous Greek generals.


No question about it. Alexander’s father, Phillip II was a highly successful conqueror himself and, Alexander’s feeling of having to compete with his father for glory fueled his desire for greater conquest and expansion. Instrumental to both, Phillip II and Alexander’s success, was the phalanx formation created by Phillip. As such, Phillip gave Alexander a key component for his success. Educationally, it probably didn’t hurt that Phillip selected no less than Aristotle to educate the young Alexander. For his critical role in Alexander’s development, a reasonable argument could be made that Phillip II could be considered the most important person in the development of western culture.

I still go with Alexander, as ultimately, the drive, ambition, determination, courage and wisdom were his to repeatedly put on the line to achieve what he did. I do believe his spreading the Greek culture across the ancient world is the most influential event from antiquity in our culture.

Since some in this thread have chosen to offer a more “contemporary” answer to the question, I’ll offer one as well and divide the “prize” between Thomas Edison and Nikola Tesla. Without harnessing the power of electricity, our culture would bear no resemblance to what it is today. Edison for the light bulb and Tesla for his AC system. Without Tesla’s alternating current system the widespread availability of electricity would not be possible (Edison’s DC loses power too quickly to be transmitted over large distances.)

There is no productive activity today which does not, directly or indirectly, involve electricity.

Related factoid: Edison came up with the idea of the electric chair as an execution method to discredit Tesla’s AC based system as too dangerous. The first electric chair was designed and produced by two of Edison’s employees at his request.
 Demigod1979
Joined: 12/4/2011
Msg: 66
view profile
History
Historical question: The most important person in the development of western culture
Posted: 1/6/2013 7:29:19 AM

No question about it. Alexander’s father, Phillip II was a highly successful conqueror himself and, Alexander’s feeling of having to compete with his father for glory fueled his desire for greater conquest and expansion.

Yup. I also think that later Roman emperors and generals took after the Greek generals, particularly Alexander and his conquests (e.g., Julius Caesar reportedly weeping since his achievements weren't as great as Alexander's). He set a model for the Romans to follow, a true hero of the times (he was right there in the front lines, in the thick of the action, fighting alongside his companion cavalry - not just sitting back and watching like many of leaders of other armies).

The other Greek generals also set a model as well. They hated the idea of slavery, of not being free to determine their own destinies and way of life. The way three hundred Spartan warriors fought to the death against a quarter of a million Persians in the Battle of Thermopylae shows their unbreakable will and resolve (true freedom fighters and heroes). They also faced overwhelming odds at the Battle of Marathon, against one the most powerful army at the time, and it's incredible the way they succeeded (easily one of the most famous battles of all time). In all this, they defended Greek culture, giving the world their particular brand of philosophy, science, the arts, the Olympics and, of course, democracy.
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 67
view profile
History
Historical question: The most important person in the development of western culture
Posted: 1/6/2013 8:34:50 AM
The most important person in the development of western culture ?

Aristotle.....no one else comes close.

Alexander the Great ?..... Aristotle was Alexanders teacher !

Everything we think of as western culture was elucidated originally from Aristotle and he wrote it all down.
Aristotle didn't invent western culture, but his writings and philosophic observations has dominated the western way of thinking.
Aristotle asked all the right questions, he thought the same things everyone in the western world thinks about and has thought about for all western history..

I would go so far as to say, Christianity owes more to Aristotle than even Jesus. This is because the logic of Aristotle was more obvious ( instinctive ) to the original Christian thinkers than Jesus was.

Aristotle invented the way westerners think about things.
We think about things in an Aristotelian way, as opposed to a Buddhist way or a Confucian way in the East.

What Newton is to the world of physics, Aristotle is to the western world.

There is no more important writer for anyone in the west to read than Aristotle.
 billingsmason
Joined: 2/3/2012
Msg: 68
Historical question: The most important person in the development of western culture
Posted: 1/6/2013 11:25:28 AM
Those that vote for Aristotle are overlooking some things...
plato taught aristotle who taught alexander. But who taught plato?

Aristotle claimed that the philosophy of Plato closely followed the teachings of the Pythagoreans,[77] and Cicero repeats this claim: Platonem ferunt didicisse Pythagorea omnia ("They say Plato learned all things Pythagorean").

Pythagoras started a secret society called the Pythagorean Brotherhood devoted to the study of mathematics. This had a great effect on future esoteric traditions, such as Freemasonry and Rosicrucianism, both of which were scientific/mystical groups dedicated to the study of mathematics/geometry and logical reasoning as opposed to religious dogma. Both Freemasonry and Rosicrucianism have claimed to have evolved out of the Pythagorean Brotherhood.

Every religion uses the pure math in building it's churches, halls, synagogs, temples...ect.
Every civilized culture uses this in it's building.
Every man, woman and child regardless of faith, class, upbringing, employment, or any categorical differences uses Pythagoras' math everyday, or in the very least sees it and lives with it, without noticing it.
Every building...
Every city...
Every country...
Every culture...

There is not anyone else who crosses so many lines, or has influenced literally every single person in western culture.
Those who vote for aristotle, alexander, and plato aren't taking the due far enough back.
 billingsmason
Joined: 2/3/2012
Msg: 69
Historical question: The most important person in the development of western culture
Posted: 1/6/2013 2:39:50 PM
"There is no productive activity today which does not, directly or indirectly, involve electricity."

stone masonry- hasn't changed much; hammer, chisel, trowel, plumb bob, square, and magic stick.

Personally I still use the water method to establish level for pools and other critical apps.
Lasers, transits and the like have a major fault- human error.
Sure, saws and hydraulic snappers are around, but aren't critical to continue work. They often take longer and create other problems too. Traditional means still are most efficient.


synagogues.... to correct my horrendous typo.
wtf spellchecker?
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 70
Historical question: The most important person in the development of western culture
Posted: 1/7/2013 3:02:06 PM
Demigod- If I have to go with one, I'll go with the Ford brothers for popularizing cars. Ease of transport changed everything.
 afucwit
Joined: 8/10/2012
Msg: 71
view profile
History
Historical question: The most important person in the development of western culture
Posted: 1/8/2013 6:34:14 AM
I have changed my mind again I now think it is Arthur Dent!!
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 72
Historical question: The most important person in the development of western culture
Posted: 1/8/2013 10:38:57 AM
I haven't changed my mind. IMO, the guy responsible for putting the entire planet into debt slavery was the most influential person.
 PondEcho52
Joined: 1/3/2013
Msg: 73
Historical question: The most important person in the development of western culture
Posted: 1/8/2013 11:00:16 AM
Add another mark for Nikola Tesla.

I haven't read all of the posts yet but he gets my vote for his attitude towards providing free, renewable energy to the public in general.

Is there a question posted for The Most Destructive Force in the development of ....

PondEcho52
 afucwit
Joined: 8/10/2012
Msg: 74
view profile
History
Historical question: The most important person in the development of western culture
Posted: 1/8/2013 5:52:16 PM
Is there a question posted for The Most Destructive Force in the development of ....


this is a given .. has to be ...Gag Halfrunt...As a psychiatrist, Halfrunt realised that should the Ultimate Question to Life, the Universe, and Everything ever be found, the psychiatric profession would lose the business of many bewildered and highly profitable clientele. Therefore, it was Halfrunt that ordered and paid the Vogons to 'demolish the Earth' (under the premise of building a hyperspace bypass).

If you want real life then Genghis Khan gets my vote again (see page 1 most important influence)
 Kohmelo
Joined: 9/20/2011
Msg: 75
view profile
History
Historical question: The most important person in the development of western culture
Posted: 1/8/2013 7:39:11 PM

Is there a question posted for The Most Destructive Force in the development of ....

Julius Caesar
Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Historical question: The most important person in the development of western culture