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 albinosquirlz
Joined: 3/28/2010
Msg: 15
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Suicide for ReligionPage 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)

We'll discuss it when I take you out to dinner.


I see you're falling for that whole "Olivia Chow" thing she has going on eh?
 Celje
Joined: 6/18/2012
Msg: 16
Suicide for Religion
Posted: 12/29/2012 8:19:45 AM
Their message requires sacrifice, we're too feared to understand.
 albinosquirlz
Joined: 3/28/2010
Msg: 17
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Suicide for Religion
Posted: 12/29/2012 8:50:07 AM

Their message requires sacrifice, we're too feared to understand.


I think you are over-romantisizing monks.

As a resident of Parkdale (Toronto), I am familiar with, and have actually interacted with Tibetan monks (but don't mess with the old ladies walking around the neighbourhood spinning their prayer wheels).

And I can assure you....they are as batsh*t as every other highly devouted fanatical religious person.
 Celje
Joined: 6/18/2012
Msg: 18
Suicide for Religion
Posted: 12/29/2012 8:50:59 AM
Most people have no clue of sacrifice or death, and fear both. They took their life, not anyone else's. German's did the same when they BELIEVED they'll have to live like Russian's. They just used manilla rope and there wasn't much of a message.
 Celje
Joined: 6/18/2012
Msg: 19
Suicide for Religion
Posted: 12/29/2012 9:05:15 AM
They broke a rule, high fives to them.

What was their point really? I don't know, but it's definately entertainment.
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 20
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Suicide for Religion
Posted: 12/29/2012 2:59:21 PM
it's ok to die for something, but what!!!!!!!!????

THAT is the question.

joining the army is a kind of suicide.
 DevilfromToronto
Joined: 9/23/2012
Msg: 21
Suicide for Religion
Posted: 12/29/2012 3:49:25 PM

it's ok to die for something


I hope you won't spread this stupid thought, kids and most young people can be very influenced by others


joining the army is a kind of suicide.


any action can be a kind of suicide, you can get choked to death while eating, shot at your head by a random bullet while walking in the street, fatally hit by a truck while driving.... etc., risks and accidents cannot be avoided!!

Please do not try to mess up our heads
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 22
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History
Suicide for Religion
Posted: 12/29/2012 3:55:23 PM
most heads are already quite messed up.
I don't think I have the power.

we are already required to die for certain things.
I don't need to elaborate.

army activity is a little different than going about....and it's wrong!

ever heard of dying for the truth??
trouble is, we have to FIND it first.
 DevilfromToronto
Joined: 9/23/2012
Msg: 23
Suicide for Religion
Posted: 12/29/2012 4:14:42 PM
most heads are already quite messed up


its only your own thought

we are already required to die for certain things


I believe almost all of us, including you, still want to live as long as we can

army activity is a little different than going about....and it's wrong


maybe we should judge by the tribute paid to the deceased soldiers from the public

ever heard of dying for the truth??


it doesn't mean we have to follow


p.s.the statements tell better of yourself than your own profile
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 24
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Suicide for Religion
Posted: 12/29/2012 4:19:03 PM
sticking to the topic without judging would be way more educational.
 albinosquirlz
Joined: 3/28/2010
Msg: 25
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Suicide for Religion
Posted: 1/2/2013 8:58:31 PM
This is probably where we need to differentiate between suicide and martyrdom (if indeed there is a difference).
 DevilfromToronto
Joined: 9/23/2012
Msg: 26
Suicide for Religion
Posted: 1/2/2013 10:22:39 PM

This is probably where we need to differentiate between suicide and martyrdom (if indeed there is a difference).


the results are same <----- they were very influenced and killed themselves !!
 casexia
Joined: 12/17/2012
Msg: 27
Suicide for Religion
Posted: 1/2/2013 11:06:56 PM
martyrdom is traditionally to die for a cause and it doesnt have to be suicide. being assassinated can count as well gevernment execution because they disagree with you etc. martyrdom's definition got corrupted by terrorists but prior to that martyrs generally were victims murder not suicide.
 RussArtLover
Joined: 5/13/2010
Msg: 28
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Suicide for Religion
Posted: 1/2/2013 11:08:37 PM
Anyone recall Jesus saying the kingdom of heaven was at hand? (hint hint) That means right here, right now. You just have to find your way there or build it yourself. Tall order but it can be done. Is being done. In the scientific community :)

I agree suicide is an act of violence. A monk should know that without being told. Can suicides go to heaven? Well that is several books worth of answer but basically yes, of course. The only people who can not find they're way are those who specifically do not want to.

Heaven on earth is like the holy city mentioned in the book of revelation, always changing.
 emotionalheat
Joined: 6/27/2007
Msg: 29
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Suicide for Religion
Posted: 1/3/2013 1:15:30 AM
This is probably where we need to differentiate between suicide and martyrdom (if indeed there is a difference).


Below are some of the many ways that people lay down their lives voluntarily. Are they not all suicides? What do you think of this spectrum? What would you add or take away from it and why?

More importantly, whose death, among those who commit suicide, should we
admire them for staying true to their principles
and in any religious belief system, who could say that this one act is worthy, or not, of heaven’s grace?

The suicide spectrum: Suicide by category

Suicide 1 (euthanasia):
When facing the pain, suffering and certain death through a long debilitating disease (or old age) it seems better to plan a peaceful and dignified end of life experience

Suicide 2 (depression):
When a person cannot understand the world, and feels unable to control the outcomes of events around him/herself. The hopelessness of the situation leads to the only way out.

Suicide 3 (delusional rage):
Raging hatred for the particular external social forces that have created the hell that the person feels forced to endure. The best option is to end the hell but not until imposing the same sentence of hell on others – mass murderers who then take their own life in the end.

Suicide 4 (delusional risk):
A scientist who exposes him or herself to a disease to prove his or her cure will work. Those people who think that a few (or more) drinks have no effect on their senses or reaction time and drive anyway. The thrill seekers for whom near death experiences are exciting, especially those who find their escapades all the more thrilling with an audience.

Suicide 5 (self-deluded martyrdom)
Includes Hunger strikes or exposing self to situations that will end his/her life if not intervened, like dessert heat without water or unusually cold environment without shelter or fire. All for the sake of bringing attention of some cause, often religious in nature.

Also included in suicide category 5 are those who martyr themselves for the sake of belief systems, whether religious or socially inferred, such as the Kamikaze pilots of WWII or the Middle East suicide bombers and even military personnel who voluntarily lay down their life based on the self-deluded idea that following orders to engage in battle is a heroic duty that requires no further ethical or critical thought processing of their own.

Suicide 6 (altruistic action):
The act of defending the life or lives of others in the face of immediate and unexpected danger when there is no doubt the act will end her/his life.

Perhaps #6 is an instinctual action, but having been in such a position, I can say that I was aware of the consequence of my action; I accepted it and I had no fear for myself. I have never been able to explain how I escaped what I believed to be inevitable but I know that the person who was driving the vehicle of my imminent destruction was nearly hysterical, and could not believe I was unharmed. Oddly, I felt somewhat calm and my only anxiety was due to the scrapes my son incurred when I threw him out of the way of that vehicle.

It was the acknowledgement that I was offering my life to save another that led me to accept that suicide can be an altruistic action.

I also think that a person has the right to choose how to live AND how to die so, at one end of the spectrum is a critical thought process that culminates in the acceptance of death as a life experience that can be controlled with dignity. At the other end is the acceptance of death for no other reason but that it culminates in the continued life of another, or others.
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 30
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Suicide for Religion
Posted: 1/3/2013 2:15:13 AM
I think these monks are deluded from the get go. That is why they think they should be monks in the first place, that is why they kill themselves. They have mental problems, just like manic people in the west.

Thing is, there, (and other places) they glorify manic people. Really, they should get them help and bring them back to reality.

Heaven is a fear based reward story made up so that you will give what you earned to the lazy greedos willingly.
No one gets to go "there".
 MisterDiamond
Joined: 12/26/2012
Msg: 31
Suicide for Religion
Posted: 1/3/2013 2:16:48 AM
Suicide is stupid even when I my self get temptations to kill time to time. However, I battle it through. That is besides the point.

Suicide even becomes more stupid when it is done out of some messed up religious through process. Case in point, the Muslim extremists!!!! I am a Muslim and I always get appalled the fact that how suicide has gained acceptance as a tool to be used in the act of so called war. Because it is strictly prohibited in any circumstance!!!
 Sciencetreker
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 33
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Suicide for Religion
Posted: 1/18/2013 2:51:58 PM
Tibetan monks....Darwin Award nomination. Send out the forms.

At 23 I joind the Israeli military. As a French citizen and an atheist it was a double insanity...die for a religion and die for a flag.

Ah, the stupidity of youth. Fortunately most move beyond the fanaticism.
 Sciencetreker
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 34
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Suicide for Religion
Posted: 1/18/2013 2:59:28 PM

What even I find tragic is that the monk is only 20 yrs old. Too young to commit suicide


No he wasn't. He did it just fine. Religious whackos are quite capable of doing the act. Whackos have offed themselves for millenia for such great causes from appeasing goat gods to community purple Kool-ade chugging.
 Kings_Knight
Joined: 1/20/2009
Msg: 35
Suicide for Religion
Posted: 1/18/2013 7:56:39 PM
This is what happens when people take a philosophical construct seriously. There is no 'god', 'heaven', 'hell', or anything else the various and sundry 'religions' preach in order to attract the gullible. These folks protest to gain attention for their 'cause', but did the monks who self-immolated in protest during the early days of VietNam accomplish their goal ... ? I think not. Neither will these monks. They'll just be dead, and nothing will be changed. Suicides, as per your question, are cowards. They take the easy way out without consideration for what the ones they leave behind must deal with as the result of their intensely selfish and self-absorbed act. They deserve nothing by way of remembrance.
 apafely
Joined: 1/14/2013
Msg: 36
Suicide for Religion
Posted: 1/19/2013 6:03:52 PM
Suicide may prove to be a very effective way of fighting oppression, but by no means is it pacifist in nature, OP.

Suiciding is an act of violence, inasmuch it results in taking the lives of innocent people. Suicide as a mode of political pressure, communicating a special interest, or a lobbying effort, is an aggression eventualized in mortum exitus lethalis, and it is a self-inflicted outburst of violent answer to peaceful questions.

According to Christian dogma, suicides lose their Christianity, whenever they commit the purely evil act of taking their lives, which only god is authorized to take. Suicides can't even buried in Christian semetaries, to keep the cemeteries from becoming spiritually unhygienic. In Hinduism and in Tibetan Monkism, suicides don't go anywhere, they return, upon their moment of death, absolutely instantaneously, into the ranks of the living. A sort of reincarnation. So the more they try to leave, the more they get to stay put.
 apafely
Joined: 1/14/2013
Msg: 37
Suicide for Religion
Posted: 1/19/2013 6:07:21 PM
Fewer stupid people in the world the better. Can do more for peace alive than dead. Dali Lama comes to mind.
???

For your information, I agree with you the Dalai Lamas are great peace-makers, but almost all of them are dead. I don't think your opinion is very valid as quoted here.

I mean, if there were in total X number of Dalai Lamas in history, which is like 200 Lamas or 500, or a thousand, I don't know, but a great number anyway; and the Lamas did much good for humankind; and only one is alive and X-1 are dead; and assumably they did more for peace than many alive; then your assertion is not very precisely.
 apafely
Joined: 1/14/2013
Msg: 38
Suicide for Religion
Posted: 1/19/2013 6:16:25 PM
"I believe almost all of us, including you, still want to live as long as we can"

I contest this. I believe that many, and indeed an awful lot of people would prefer to not exist over existing and living.

I used to be that way. But suicide was not that good an option, because though I wanted to live as short a life as humanly possible, I was still afraid of dying, to this day I still am.

I have known really old people who had had happy and fulfilling lives, but they said they had enough life, and they were getting tired of it. But they also feared death terribly.

To not want to die is not the same as wishing to live long.

Please consider the line in the Gershwin melody, sung by an African-American slave: (from "Porgie and Bess") :-(

"I am weary, and sick of trying,
I'm tired of living but scared of dying..."
 apafely
Joined: 1/14/2013
Msg: 39
Suicide for Religion
Posted: 1/19/2013 6:22:22 PM
"Tibetan monks....Darwin Award nomination. Send out the forms.

At 23 I joind the Israeli military. As a French citizen and an atheist it was a double insanity...die for a religion and die for a flag.

Ah, the stupidity of youth. Fortunately most move beyond the fanaticism."

Okay. So... tell us about death. How can you still post opinions here. I thought ghosts were a myth. You get special passes? Is there really an after life? I hope for my own sake, for a change of pace for me, because there is definitely no life for me down here.

What's the best and worst part about being dead? Who is the best dressed dead spirit in the netherworld? Have you talked to Socrates? Oo, the only two people I really want to meet are Jimi Hendrix and Socrates. Maybe Marilyn Monroe, and Bridgitte Bardot, after she dies too, of course.

---------------------------------

Edit (afterthoughts): I hope they put you in the 23rd airborne. And I can't even begin to imagine how big and bad it was that you were running away from, if the French Foreign Legion passed your application over to the Israelis.

Geeeze...
 apafely
Joined: 1/14/2013
Msg: 40
Suicide for Religion
Posted: 1/19/2013 6:31:32 PM
" If suicide was necessary, then that's what you do. I don't believe anyone would be punished for it."

You are a nice and kind woman, but suicides are often punished. My uncle was cut off the rope in his holding cell eight years into his life term, and as a punishment for his breaking the prison rules they slapped another seven years to his life sentence.

In other words, because he wanted to die, they punished him with sentencing him to seven more years of life.
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