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Joined: 12/16/2012
Msg: 18
Should I feel guilty here...Page 3 of 2    (1, 2)
You have no reason to feel guilty whatsoever. You should feel proud that you have committed yourself to him, been loyal and devoted as well as considerate. It does sound like you are giving more than you are getting from him and the relationship.

Sadly it is clear the man has serious past issues, issues which are very deeply rooted that only a counsellor can help him work through. You can't help him with this matter, he has to want to put the past behind him and move forward and given his behaviour towards you and your relationship this past year it doesn't sound like he's ready or willling to do that.

You need to decide if you can continue living this way, giving everything and getting nothing with someone who isn't going to commit anytime soon and who is projecting his past issues on you. Personally, if it was me I'd have been gone long ago. You do deserve better.

Don't pay attention to the bashers on here attacking you for your choices. They have no right to shoot off their mouths and judge you. I say to them LOOK IN THE MIRROR.

Although I'm an atheist, I greatly admire you for staying true to your beliefs and values. I'm the same way and it's something I take great pride in.
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 19
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 12:35:03 PM

.I want more in life than an activity buddy.

And that is what? Obviously he is not affectionate. And how can you be affectionate in a relationship that has no intimacy?

I think you're bout ready to jump boat. Your needs DO need to be met.

I would advice you go to the book store tonight, or buy it online. It's a book called the Five love languages. There you will see what is necessary for people to have their love tanks filled. The importance to be loved. And how to communicate with someone that has a different language.
Joined: 12/7/2012
Msg: 20
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 12:42:47 PM
Fair enough... We all got a little off topic.

1) Nobody thinks you're a prude. I know I understand you're belief system and that's fine. I don't accept it as being healthy but I'm not living your life.

2) The original question: "Should you feel guilty?" I'll answer that with a question: "Is he making you feel guilty or worth less than what you hoped for?" (He said he's buy you a wedding present if you met another man... That's pretty passive aggressive, no?)
Joined: 12/16/2012
Msg: 21
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 12:51:00 PM
^^^ and your belief system may be unhealthy in the eyes of others and unacceptable to others. We all have our own beliefs, values, and morals and there is no right or wrong in my opinion. We must RESPECT the differences in others.

You are bang on with point #2.
Joined: 8/17/2012
Msg: 22
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 12:57:35 PM
Thanks guys (last several posts)

I am aware of the Five Love Languages book...I think that is why I am not willing to continue in a dead end relationship...I know I deserve does everyone.

Wellllll....I just had THAT TALK with him. He nearly always comes over for dinner everynight and I called before he could come over and I let him know I think we are in a no win situation and that I think, since he as much as invited me to find someone else...I thought I needed to branch out.

He took it by explaining all his 'feelings'...but I told him all that is good and I accept it all, but I just don't think I want to hang around waiting for "things might change in the future". The line I think is a real winner...In other words..."just hang around until kingdom come and I just might change my mind."

I've accepted my first date (just prior to this thread...and the reason for the question about guilt) and will begin to move on from there.

I am really surprised...I'm not really hurting in the way I thought I would. I feel my self pride returning. I am still hoping he'll "come to his senses'...but I know that won't happen in the real world. If he cared as much as I did, I wouldn't be posting today. So many thanks everyone...even you fellas who thought I was a real pushy I really appreciate all the input!

Moving on....
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 23
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 1:08:22 PM

I am really surprised...I'm not really hurting in the way I thought I would. I feel my self pride returning.

This is great. I am reading a book on Yoga right now. Something that applies to people of any religion, since the spiritual teaching apply to every religion, but the book had a couple of lines that were so profound that I had to copy them into my Iphone notes.

One is "Conditioned identity." This is what happens when we cannot overcome our on trauma, and things that have happened to us. We become conditioned to believe that we cannot do one thing, or deserve something better.

The other one is "Accept and love vulnerably." We have to accept people for what they are and not compare them with the past. The past is in the past and the new people in the present do not represent the past. Only WE represent that past and if we get stuck in it, we end up living through self fulfilling prophesies. The important part here is also to be vulnerable. If we pretend to feel, yet have a shell and don't allow emotions out or in, we will always be empty.

If he is not willing to open up. Then move on. Search for your own happiness, you deserve it.
Joined: 8/17/2012
Msg: 24
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 1:29:13 PM
thanks sweetness and outmind...

I mentioned before it was like he was standing on a highdive afraid to jump...well I think that applied to me as well...I knew I needed to have this talk with him but I was afraid of his reaction...and actions...Nothing at at all to save the relationship...and both came about. But its ok! I'm OK. I'm amazed...I'm relieved too. Its done...I least for the I expect my bad moments...but I plan on staying busy to keep from wallowing. I need to remind myself those were MY dreams...Not HIS reality.

Odd thing though...I mentioned the time he was very emotional about our near breakup a few months back and he kept denying that I saw what I saw. Ummm. He is a man who can't deal with HIS own emotions. I wish I could do something to help him. But I can't. As was said our ages we are who we are...and aren't about to change at this late date.

I know during the whole conversations he kept saying I should take tonight and we'd get together tomorrow and talk about it then. I made no arrangements with him for that. I need to spend some time away from him for my own good.

Again thanks for all the wise advice. Everyone has given me a little piece of the answer and I appreciate it!
Joined: 11/12/2009
Msg: 25
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 1:49:31 PM
As a man, I can understand some of those issues. Overall, I see him as in immediate need of social conciliation, and you happen along at the right time. However, he does not hold you in the highest of esteem. If he did, you all would have advanced far beyond this point months ago. I think he is secretly holding out for someone "better". As such, you will always be one for disappointment, even if he turns around and heads "forward" in your eyes. A relationship based on immediate needs rather than confirmed fulfillment will always be shaky in my opinion. (I was married for 51 years when she died; I now realize that I (we) did a little better than all that, but still... I see the symptoms.) It's up to you to decide where to go. His offer to "Attend your wedding if other..." is real. Indefinitely, your love will be tolerated, but not returned-in-full.

It's up to you... I say you should maintain and improve your beauty and your wardrobe. New love and True love are always around if you can find them. I wish you the best.

Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 26
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 2:00:18 PM

Wellllll....I just had THAT TALK with him. He nearly always comes over for dinner everynight and I called before he could come over and I let him know I think we are in a no win situation and that I think, since he as much as invited me to find someone else...I thought I needed to branch out.

He took it by explaining all his 'feelings'...but I told him all that is good and I accept it all, but I just don't think I want to hang around waiting for "things might change in the future". The line I think is a real winner...In other words..."just hang around until kingdom come and I just might change my mind."

Something doesn’t seem quite right to me.

You’ve been seeing this man for a year and almost lived in a house he bought, and you love him and would marry him, but even though he comes over almost every night for dinner, when you decide to have a serious talk with him you tell him to stay away and you have the THAT TALK with him over the phone?? IMO that was damn cold.
And HE’S the one with deep emotional problems??! Of course!

Do you really think that cowardly approach was fair to him?

Why didn’t you talk to him in person?

Why did you put his “feelings” in quotes?

It seems to me you’re just not getting what you want from him and a little emotional blackmail should do the trick, eh?

I'm not really hurting in the way I thought I would. I feel my self pride returning. I am still hoping he'll "come to his senses'...

Really? You feel your pride returning at the expense of his, and his “feelings”?
And you’ll take him back if he comes around groveling and jumping through your hoops?

Some people’s ideas about “love” truly amaze me. I feel very sorry for him.
Joined: 5/12/2010
Msg: 27
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Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 2:00:53 PM
Maybe my advice shouldn't be considered because, well... No physical intimacy? Seems like that's a large part of a relationship.

But anyway, you shouldn't feel guilty. He wrote the rules, you're just living in them. If you should be feeling bad its for not having the "talk" about you wanting to take it another step or leaving it altogether. And if you're having fun, then its alright for a single lady to have an activity partner that you flirt with.
Joined: 8/17/2012
Msg: 28
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 2:32:08 PM
fleuron...I called him to see if he was coming to dinner tonight as he usually does...he hadn't called to let me know anything... he said no...the first time in months...from there I ask if he was trying to put 'air' between us...I've been feeling little things for a while. From there the talk began...but's not cowardly...he lives at the other end of the street and yes he can still come visit and knows it.

And emotional blackmail...he's getting his space as he says he wants and I'm getting on with my life. Will we continue to see each other...probably... But I'm not ready to 'make' space for him at his beck and call anymore. I can't. I have deep feelings for him I need to work through. If anyone can't understand that...sorry.

Since we (he and I) have two different sets of needs it won't do for me to wallow at his beck and call in hopes of something he may or maynot give. As much as I care for him...I have to do whats best for me in the end. I've given him a year to get his act together...why is that so hard for you to understand?

Clinging to someone who isn't on the same "love' plain as you is not only stupid but me! And it will in the end make him unhappy as well. No...he is getting what he wants....and I'm going to move on with my life...without quilt.

Too bad you feel sorry for him. I do too...but for two different reasons.
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 29
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Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 2:52:54 PM
All I want to put in on this, is a thought about Guilt.

It has been said by others, that feeling guilty is so unpleasant, because there really is no "guilty" emotion. Instead, one feels "guilty," because they are angry at/resentful of themselves or others, but are not willing to face up directly to the anger. When you stuff your emotions down, and insist on behaving in a manner that you actually don't agree with, for any reason, you will be angry about doing so, but unwilling to face up to it.

I would recommend a detailed examination of your guilt feelings. You might try an exercise such as saying out loud "I am angry at X, because..." and try to figure out what it is that you want, that you don't believe you ought to have, and why.

Given your story, it is possible that what's happening is, that he fulfills 75% of what you think a mate ought to be, and so you think that you "should" marry him. But you realize that he is actually unsatisfactory in many ways, and you are angry at him for not being what he is "supposed to be." Perhaps you also know that it isn't "right" to demand that others become who you want them to be, so you stuff your anger down inside, and it turns into this sense of "guilt."

Just some thoughts to get you started. The key is, to realize that feeling guilty is NOT an answer, it is the beginning point for discovering what is really going on inside yourself.
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 30
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 2:59:05 PM

Will we continue to see each other...probably... But I'm not ready to 'make' space for him at his beck and call anymore. I can't. I have deep feelings for him I need to work through.

I would advice against continuing to see each other. You need to find out how your emotions will be in the absence of this person. You will not be able to move to the next chapter until you close that page. If you continue to have him in your life while trying to move on, all you are going to do is get really confused as to where you are emotionally. And remember, emotions do not deal with what your rational brain can concoct, but what is deep inside you. Sever all ties for a few months and see where it goes.

Otherwise, you will now simply move into another gray area of unresolved emotions.
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 31
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 3:14:19 PM
Oh sweetness-one, you know I’m not a sugar coater.

Of course it’s a matter of perception. We all see things differently. IMO if people want the type of advice they’d get from a priest, a mother, or a therapist, I suggest s/he consult with a priest, mom, or a therapist rather than post their tales of woe and how awful the OTHER person is on a dating site forum.

I don’t normally look at OP profiles. I go by what’s written in the OP. I don’t know how old OP is, and it doesn’t change my opinion if she’s 32 or 92. I didn’t read your post….I would expect anyone who posts to stand by their opinions, unless they chose to change their views on their own. I wasn’t trying to change anyone’s mind. I simply stated MY opinion, like everyone else. I happen to see it differently.

She says she loves him, and doesn’t want to feel guilty dumping him and dating other men….yet THAT TALK had nothing to do with him…there was no TALK….just her telling him to hit the road, dismissing his “feelings,” and she didn’t even do it in person.

And now she feels all better about herself. Most people do when someone else’s feelings have suffered.

There’s no intimacy, but she claims that’s what he wants, not just her.

There’s no intimacy, but he can buy her a house she’ll live in….without exchanging marriage vows even though there’s some sort of religion involved, but that’s okay because it’s what she wanted and they’d sleep in separate rooms.

Seems to me that’s when his emotional issues began to matter….when he backed out of buying the house for her.

She’s claimed he’s emotionally damaged, but that’s okay if he’ll marry her and fly right.

I stand by my comment that I feel very sorry for him.

Oh….and I didn’t say OP was a “bad person.”
Joined: 8/17/2012
Msg: 32
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/28/2012 3:34:14 PM
fleuron...What's going on in your imagination has no likeness of our relationship. I can't go into all the ins and outs of our relationship on here...There are lots of details that make perfect sense if you knew them. We both have a lot of respect for one another and neither of us want to hurt the other. We've always treated each other very well...both ways...and even now have no interest in hurting one another.

As to a would have been for both of us...not ME. There are details on that too that you are not privy to and shouldn't be as this is a public forum. But it was a factor in the whole picture and what message HE was sending ME..

What it all boils down this...He and I have come to a cross road only because we both want something diffenent right now. I want' more than he does. NEITHER of us is wrong...NEITHER of us is using the other in a negative fashion and no one is trying to 'blackmail" anyone.

MY issue was simply...I'm ready to move on because WE DO have different needs from each other. I DO love him...But I am not prepared to cling to someone who is not on that same plain! I think its time for me to move on but I don't like 'cheating". thus the quilt...or the feelings of frustrations. I needed to tell him I am ready to move on.

My question to other posters...because I have so much emotion in the mix is...Is what I feel about wanting to move on valid or am I being unfair to him?. I've got a lot of great answers and opinions here. I know what I had/have to do...I had the opportunity to talk to him about it and we now have clear air. We will most likely see each other because we still have things that belong to each other and live in the same community. But the air is now clear for both of us.

You have a very negative view of things you can't know the details of and a real fertile imagination of what went on between he and I...and you can't even know!...Amazing
Joined: 12/1/2012
Msg: 33
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/29/2012 6:52:24 AM
bethanna44, I think your emotions are acting without the benefit of intellect here, personally I dont think , actually not think I should say " Believe" , I truly believe you should not be dating any other man while you're in love with your current man you're seeing, its not fair to the other fellow.

As in should you feel guilty? yes and no, the more I read your posts the more I think you dont want to be alone and you're settling, this guy you're seeing shares your moral beliefs, I suspect you two are not intimate because of your christian beliefs but I have to question why you want to stay with a man who isn't affectionate and emotionally ready and changes his mind about important things like how Liz Taylor used to change husbands.

Second buying a house and taking a mortgage at this late stage in life? something isn't adding up here and I would suggest looking into it bit more, but that isn't the issue, the issue here is the two of you.

While we dont know the details of your relationship with the guy , were only getting crumbs but from the crumbs you tossed out ,I dont see how this guy is the marrying type? any man that says if you find a man I would send a wedding gift is saying, " I'm trying to be cool and show it doesn't bother me" but in the next sentence he will be a emotional wreck if you left him, so it sounds like he knows how to keep you on a string like the old man controlling Pinocchio.

Personally I dont think he will ever marry you , he will keep you dangling as long as possible, there is more to the story and he's not telling you everything.

I know you two share a lot in common, but that isn't enough for a great relationship , you're holding on to hope, Sweetness _one post was dead on, He doesn't sound like a bad guy but you two have different views when it comes to relationships, I think you're in love with the idea of being in love and this guy is the closet thing to the guy you envision that shares your values and beliefs ,unfortunately you're not seeing the bigger picture, if you were truly in love with him you wouldn't think of meeting another man IMO.
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 34
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/29/2012 7:34:00 AM

If you do, keep him as someone to hang out with. View him as someone to drag along with you if you need a warm body to go with you somewhere

Isn't that what she(along with him) have been doing for the last year????? I mean seriously, that's all I'm seeing here. Tit for tat it seems. They both have been what they want,other than, now, she has some questions. After a year, I might add.

I honestly am so confused and I tried to reread everything the OP has posted, twice!!!! Can we have a list of what he wants, and what she wants please. Actually, don't worry about it, the choice has been made. I will suggest, as someone already else has, before inviting another man into a life of,well,whatever, decide on why love this guy and make sure you don't love the next one the same way. That will save ya some future potential of "guilt"?????

Thank goodness I'm not drinking.
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 35
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/29/2012 10:23:36 AM
Well, if you are going to start dating other people, then you should at least tell him, of course. You want a real relationship that has a future and there is nothing wrong with that. You should move on and find someone with whom you can have the relationship that you want.
Joined: 12/26/2012
Msg: 36
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/29/2012 10:28:53 PM
Honestly if a guy doesn't want to commit he probably doesn't feel good enough for you. You might want to read the book, " The Myth of Male Power" or listen to this audio, it explains about the male role in society.
Joined: 10/5/2012
Msg: 37
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/29/2012 10:43:52 PM
The Buddhist say Guilt is Useless Emotions..
There is always a Solution to every Problem even if it might not be what we thought it should be.
You moved on...and he will too...
You learned after a year this relationship was not right for you; no marriage proposal and insecurities and ambivalence;
And he came to dinner every night at your house and wanted you to comfort him and go places..
You wanted MORE.... and he was not going to provide a legal marriage.
It was deal-breaker to you.

Me too. If I date for more than a year and not a marriage proposal with a set wedding (not just a ring with no wedding date); than I would move on too at this time of my life. It is my life and it is his life; and we both decide what is innately best for ourselves.

Bravo to you for doing what YOU wanted to do. No guilt ... you had no choice but to be true to your own beliefs (we are all different; maybe he'll meet someone that will accept what he offers ... no marriage)
Joined: 7/6/2010
Msg: 38
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/30/2012 7:33:52 PM
This place baffles the f*ck out of me and me both!
Joined: 5/6/2008
Msg: 39
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Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/30/2012 7:39:19 PM
hang on a minute...did you just say he is damaged from his past relationships, he backs out constantly at the last minute, no passion, etc, etc. But you'd "marry him today without qualms"???? Seriously????

No, guilt is not exactly what you should be feeling here. Why would you want/need to marry this man? What's in it for you? I think you should absolutely look for a man who is "well".

Good luck to you, there are worse things than being alone.
Joined: 2/20/2011
Msg: 40
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Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/30/2012 8:13:23 PM
I'm late but I can't help but try to place a comment. I hope you get chance to read this.

I used to be a strong Christian and my Mother would have a fit if I moved into a house with a woman and said, "Oh we have separate bedrooms" That's just weird. Christians don't move in with people they're not married to.

The strong silent alpha males are notorious for not being in touch with their feelings and being poor communicators, but women flock to them anyway, just like you do. But if you actually show your emotions like I do, the way women say they want men to do, you get labeled as weak or emotionally unstable.

But maybe he doesn't want to get affectionate because he gets sexually aroused and he knows it's not going to go anywhere. Did you ever think about that? Women only think like women. You have to think like a man to understand a man. The AVERAGE woman can get all kissy kissy and stop any time and it's no big deal. It takes them a long time to get worked up. Men are ready to go at the first sign of affection. Maybe your mutual abstaining from sex before marriage is getting in the way of the relationship progressing. It's your choice, but I'm glad I'm not dating you.

I will never again get married so that I can have sex. I was a virgin when I got married and I got married for the wrong reason.
Joined: 12/9/2006
Msg: 41
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Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/30/2012 8:47:36 PM
You're not responsible for his self esteem. Do you really want to spend your 'golden years' wearing his letter-man jacket and carrying Pom Poms?
Who cheers for you? Who picks you up when your down? Who wants to be living is separate bedrooms, that is where bad marriages die.
Joined: 3/2/2011
Msg: 42
Should I feel guilty here...
Posted: 12/30/2012 10:27:59 PM
Bethanna44: No! You should not feel guilty of seeing someone else. When he occupied your times to make you believe that there is future of becoming a spouse but not committed to go through. He even went step further to make you think there will be an end for the waiting while he is not willing to give and I call the method as "dangling a carrot over in front of the horse". Who wants to loose a free warm dinner every night with a nice companion. You did out of "love", but who knows what is in his mind.....or what he did when he is not with you( seeing another girl , or fishing for a younger fish???).

Cruelty, I think he is a guilty one playing games with your emotion. At our ages, time is more precious to waste for the game of dating. Average age before we are dropped dead around 80s, so only few years left for this nonsense of the 20s something play.
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