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 enigoM
Joined: 2/18/2013
Msg: 34
Steubenville rape casePage 2 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
we finally agree on something...what those boys did was worse.. they publicized the rape through videos and pics...they should be in prison for a long time
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 35
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 3/19/2013 11:27:13 AM

we finally agree on something...what those boys did was worse.. they publicized the rape through videos and pics...they should be in prison for a long time


Perhaps today is the day heII freezes over???

I think the boys got 9 month in juvenile detention and must register as sex offenders.
 59thShadeofGrey
Joined: 9/25/2012
Msg: 36
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 3/19/2013 1:37:39 PM
The untold story of interest is whether these bozos feel truly remorseful for what they did or if they'll just spend their time in juvie whining about the unfairness of it all - bolstered by the unconscionable pandering of the media painting them to be poor, misunderstood victims.
:-(

What should really happen is that the convicted should not be allowed to present their apologies until AFTER sentencing. Then we'd have a more valid sense of whether any true understanding or remorse exists.
 ladywilltravel
Joined: 8/25/2012
Msg: 37
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 3/19/2013 8:08:13 PM
After following this event from the beginning through the guilty verdict and punishment, I do not feel that the punishment adequately fits the crime. The victim was dealt a life sentence by their actions, but the defendants will serve their short time and move on with their life. The high profile of the case and the outcome certainly won't do much to deter others. I read that one of the defendants proclaimed, after sentencing, that " my life is over"; it doesn't seem that there is any real acknowledgement or concept of the damage they have caused to another human being and that is a crime within itself. It makes one wonder just how long it will be before these young men are standing before another judge and jury.
 Hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 38
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History
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 3/20/2013 12:07:38 PM
I am local to Steubenville, about 10km or so just on the West Virginia side of the border. I have been following this closely, since the local media is saturated with it. This case goes far beyond the rape & the convictions handed down. Locally, there are multiple layers to the case involving allegations of alleged cozy ties between the football coach and the county sheriff, the city prosecutor(whose son is on the football team/friends with the convicted juveniles), the city probation officer(who is the sheriff's son), the idolising of the local sports programmes along with the players/coaches/supporters who are accused of closing ranks, playing favourites and trying to cover it up.

It took 16 days to come to light, and that only happened after the hacking of email and other digital accounts by an anonymous group who posted the text contents, pictures and videos of these hacked accounts for all to see.

http://mobilebroadcastnews.com/NewsRoom/Don-Carpenter/Text-Messages-led-convictions-Steubenville-Rape-Trial




Here is a link that shows the local feel of the events and relationship between those involved and how it is raising eyebrows::

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/03/steubenville-coach-reno-saccoccia-bio/63288/




The female rape victim has been threatened by other teens through social media now, and they have been arrested:

http://www.wtov9.com/news/news/breaking-news-2-arrested-connection-threats-jane-d/nWwmd/




One of the juveniles convicted of rape is appealing his conviction:

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/03/steubenville-rapist-appeal/63290/
 Hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 40
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History
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 3/21/2013 8:16:10 AM
The girl was at first reluctant to testify because she knew the networks she was up against and her position/standing in all of it. Testimony revealed that at first she was ashamed & frightened, and just wanted to hide from it. She was accusing the star quarterback of the area's favourite team of rape. I believe her parents were the ones at first who contacted the (female)city prosecutor, and was told by said prosecutor behind closed doors not to pursue it, due to lack of evidence, etc. That was the first of a long list of eyebrow-raising incidents involving local officials and their attempt to sweep it under the rug.

Once it went viral and people found out that she and her son (also a fellow teammate) were friends with the teens accused of rape, only then did she recuse herself from the process and things finally took off, due to public local pressure alledging that she had ties and could not be impartial. Public local pressure also resulted in a visiting judge hearing the case, instead of a local judge, who also alledgedly had ties.

During the critical time period between when the incident happened , and when it went fully viral(a couple weeks), very little, if anything was done by local officials. Once it went viral it was taken out of the hands of local officials. The Ohio Attorney General got involved and things started to happen. It is alleged that much evidence was destroyed in those critical 2 weeks, which probably would have resulted in more arrests and convictions. Had these few accounts not been hacked early on and contents posted publicly, they too would have been destroyed, leaving virtually no hard evidence.

Key players involved refused to testify, and had to be granted immunity from the judge in order to get their testimony on the stand. In the end, 16 key people in this small town refused to testify about the case, leaving the state attorney general no choice but to order a new grand jury next month to investigate further allegations of coverup and perjury.

The anonymous group and associates who hacked accounts and publicly posted the evidence were involved early on, and were the ones initially responsible for bringing all of this to light. There was a strong concentrated effort to silence the group early on. They were chastised by local officials for "meddling". There was actually a lawsuit filed for defamation of character against the hackers group by someone involved , and the sheriff paraphrased publicly that he condemned the hackers' actions and was taking action to shut them down.
 grizzelda
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 41
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History
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 3/21/2013 9:08:12 AM

I don't know who will agree with me, if anyone, but I see this as very much a thing of THIS time: following a period of a couple of decades during which this kind of mentality subsided somewhat--or at least some people were speaking against it--we are SO living in a culture which supports the notion that women's bodies--especially young women's bodies--are there to BE accessible to men.


I completely agree and since most young women's only power is percieved to be their body, they allow themsleves to be completely undermined by using it as a currency. When you talk to many young women they see using their sexuality as controlling their enviromnet and protesting what they see as the evils of feminism, without any clue that this is a game they will never win, that using their sexuality is them actually losing not winning, and inadvertently helping to create the environment that these types of incidents occur in. I wish young women would stop seeing themselves only in the context of male sexuality, and have as much pride for what is in their heads as between their legs.

I have had real trouble posting on this, my emotions range from fury, disgust, futility, exasperation. I see this as no different than what happened in India where that girl was gang raped and died. I imagine many of the residents of that town shook their heads and muttered something about that never happening in the US, that we dont treat women like that over here, only in "those" countries, all high up from their position of moral superiority. Oh the irony...
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 42
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 3/21/2013 9:59:28 AM
There's a case for vilence against women lessening in America...still it exists..and is too prevelent throughout our society even as the violence lessens.

Where one see's violence against women as a two sided coin..."if she didn't do this or that then the boys/men wouldn't have done this or that"...is an attitude that 'some' men/women have even still today...thankfully, there are others who see the person in the position of power and control as the responsible party and thus the only guilty party....all one has to do is read another concurrent thread here in Offtopic on CEO's to see that attitude of acceptance of standards and values of bygone times still exists today.
 Hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 43
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History
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 3/21/2013 10:39:54 AM
The defence had no shortage of female witnesses willing to testify on behalf of the defendants against the victim. And keep in mind, 2 female juveniles were arrested for threatening the victim with retaliation via social media, 1 day after the guilty verdict was handed down . Believe it or not, there are a large chunk of females blaming the victim, both locally here and nationally.
 grizzelda
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 44
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History
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 3/21/2013 11:04:32 AM

And you are inadvertently blaming the victim. Girls who see themselves only in the context of male sexuality and have less pride for what is in their heads than what is between their legs are not responsible for brutal, violent acts committed by other people.


I am in no way blaming the victim, she did nothing wrong and what frustrates me is the way young girls see themselves only in a sexual context and become part of the culture that encourages that point of view without even realizing it.

If I correctly understood what was reported, apparently this girl wasnt even sure herself that what had happened to her was considered a crime, how the hell did we allow this mindset to come about that a young girl, who was gang raped wasnt even sure if a crime had been committed or if she should tell someone what had happened to her? It is unfathomable to me that she was confused about it. Not that she was afraid, that she wasnt sure if multiple individuals raping her when she was passed out is bad? That she had so little regard for her own personal boundaries that she was actually confused about it. Where has this mindset come from?

Why are there so many other young women attacking her rather than the rapists? How any other young woman could even for a second think that what happened to that girl, and the fact that she went to the authorities was wrong, makes me sick to my stomach. Yet look at all of them attacks from other girls in the community, this is what I mean when I say that these girls are helping to create the environment that this happened in, not the victim.
 Hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 45
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History
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 3/21/2013 11:29:31 AM
The victim didn't know what happened to her due to being intoxicated and unconscious when the attack(s) occured. She went to a party at one house, drank too much, and the next morning she woke up naked at another house. She testified she doesn't remember much in between. She and a few close friends wondered aloud whether she had been drugged, due to her behaviour and condition that evening and next morning.

She only found out what had happened after friends told her about online chatter and cellphone photos/videos that were being circulated. She doesn't remember anything shown in the photos or videos. Texts from the perpetrators that evening repeatedly say that she was passed out/unconscious during the episodes.

Here is a link to a partial list of incriminating texts between the teen boys & others/friends:
http://mobilebroadcastnews.com/NewsRoom/Don-Carpenter/Text-Messages-led-convictions-Steubenville-Rape-Trial


It took her a full day of inquiring about it before she had a concrete idea of what happened. By then, knowlege of it had fully spread throughout the network, including the football coach, among others. People involved were already texting each other, changing stories, deleting photos, and creating alibis. That is when the parents got involved and contacted local authorities. Nobody else who knew about it or were involved that evening reported anything about it.

The Steubenville police chief said after the trial that he begged people to come forward with information. Nobody directly or indirectly involved seemed interested in talking to his department about the incident.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 46
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 3/21/2013 11:49:47 AM
Sadly, a few view this as a case of "legitimate rape"...can you believe someone from the public sector actually said that? It is this attitude that somehow rape can be legitimized which is what is wrong with many American's today...somehow, some people are capable of justifying rape.
 PROTON67
Joined: 4/26/2012
Msg: 47
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 3/21/2013 12:49:28 PM
We teach them to follow their dreams. We teach them there is no God. We teach them they can do whatever they set their minds to. We kick all references to biblical morality out of their schools. The smut peddlers in the media and entertainment industry feed them on a steady diet of fornication. And having left them on their own in this Godless cesspool to define their own morality then we are all shocked ... shocked I tell you ... that such a thing could happen.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 48
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History
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 3/21/2013 1:01:41 PM
What?

One doesn't need the threat of religion to be taught to be a good, decent, moral person. We do teach our kids, but just as many criminals come out of religious homes as don't.
 59thShadeofGrey
Joined: 9/25/2012
Msg: 49
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 3/21/2013 1:12:40 PM

We kick all references to biblical morality out of their schools.


You mean like the biblical morality that treats women like chattel? Gee, where would anyone get the attitude that women can be treated any way a man wishes?

Here's yer sign.....
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 50
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 3/21/2013 1:20:53 PM
We teach them there is no God.


And you know the victim and guilty children, from the Steubenville rape case, come from godless homes???How???

Regardless...this:



We teach them to follow their dreams
We teach them they can do whatever they set their minds to.

and this:


We teach them there is no God.
We kick all references to biblical morality out of their schools


Are not the recipes for rape (following dreams and teaching them they can achieve whatever goals they strive for is bad in an evil way...shakes head thinking lalalalalalalala I can't listen to this craype)
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 51
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History
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 3/21/2013 1:38:39 PM
to be honest,I have not followed this case, in fact I just read about it today
no doubt,it was a terrible crime
but honestly,much,much worse happens every single day
if anyone is interested,all they have to do is check out the local Detroit news
even here in,happy,and safe Windsor (just across the river from motown),last week,2 underage girls were sexually ,molested ,and by grown men (as in old gross men,yuk),and a 16 year old child was forced to preform a sex act on a local hokey player,in the bathroom of a downtown
bar!
(my parents would have killed my sisters if they would have gone into a 'bar',oh,but yeah, at 16,we were busy working after school,busy with sports,busy with chores arround the house,and of course busy studying ......
the number one question is,why are these young girls,doing in a bar,or going into stranger house,because booze was offered
I am in no way saying what happened to any of these girls was in anyway deserved
but it would be nice if there parents stepped up to the plate,and at the very least warned them that the world is not all
ways a 'nice place',and there are dangerous places ,and people out there
I realize that my thoughts are not politically correct,nor is taking personal responsibility!
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 52
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History
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 3/21/2013 2:59:26 PM

but honestly,much,much worse happens every single day


What's your point?


a 16 year old child was forced to preform a sex act on a local hokey player,in the bathroom of a downtown
bar!


Hockey players are worse than football players?


the number one question is,why are these young girls,doing in a bar,or going into stranger house,because booze was offered


Have you been channeling the muslim brotherhood? Keep your women at home with bags over their heads?
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 54
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History
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 3/21/2013 4:41:49 PM

Wow,/constant coder/,pretty much gave all of us a really clear picture of what went on down there
really its not at all different up here either,I forgot to add,that the news,local media,informed us that little girls as young as 13,frequent the bars in town
call me politically incorrect,but,I WOULD CLOSE A BAR DOWN (myself),IF THEY SERVED MY LITTLE GIRL BOOZE,and thats part of the problem,some so called parents really do not give a sh,t about what their little girls are doing.




























 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 55
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History
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 3/21/2013 5:14:33 PM
What is politically incorrect to say, is that the majority of girls and women in that town, would probably give anything to be in the raped girl's position, to be the one who was so piss drunk she could hardly stand, getting plowed on camera by the entire football team.


Ya know....I was right there with you on this until you started quoting Patrick Swayze...


a culture of 40-year-old adolescents, felons, power drinkers and trustees of modern chemistry


Then I realized you would have to be totally insane to actually believe the majority of 16 year olds would give anything to drink themselves into oblivion, get raped by two horrible little creeps and then have the video posted on line. I refuse to believe anyone actually thinks like that.
 NDTfan
Joined: 6/5/2012
Msg: 56
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 3/21/2013 5:20:18 PM
^^^

It's part of the "she deserved it" mentality. Well, they won't say she deserved it .... but she "has some responsibility". They secretly believe that women are no more than the sum of their body parts, only good for one thing, but they're too cowardly to come out and say it so they use code. It's disgusting.

It wasn't just those two btw... a bunch of them were granted immunity for testifying against them. And there were others they didn't have enough evidence to prosecute.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 59
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 3/21/2013 6:35:54 PM

Here's the unpopular, unvarnished truth: in small towns like this, there is a "rape culture",


You mean the truth as you see it...Because, I live in a realitively small town...in an area surrounded by small towns...and there is no rape culture here...at all...


but it's completely different than what the feminazis are going on about.


Rush... is that you???


Coincidentally, they project a sense of wonder that no one in the town is as offended as the rest of the country is, and shock and amazement that people are coming to the boys' defense, and acting like everything is normal.


Yes, funny that...we're shocked and amazed that some people, in today's world, see rape as a normal every day thing...no biggie...it just shows to go ya that there really is a seedier underbelly to America that the majority of America wish would just go away...and they will...it takes time and an attitude change.



What is politically incorrect to say, is that the majority of girls and women in that town, would probably give anything to be in the raped girl's position, to be the one who was so piss drunk she could hardly stand, getting plowed on camera by the entire football team


If this were true then there would have been no, arrests, charges, trial, nor conviction...


I feel no pity for anyone involved.


Says it all-doesn't it...
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 60
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History
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 3/21/2013 6:48:55 PM

Now that that has been cleared up, in the future, could you, if you're going to quote my posts, quote the entire relevant section?


Not until you start giving Patrick Swayze his propers.


but it's rarely ever called rape, not because of any conspiracy, but because everyone involved is a willing dumbass, and actively seeks the situation out


So the still pictures everyone has seen on the news of the two guys holding the passed out girl by her hands and feet suggest to you that she was actively seeking out the situation she was in? She somehow, in that state, consented to the acts that were done to her?

This may surprise you, but being so drunk that you have no idea what's going on does not make you fair game. Nor does wearing a slutty dress.

I agree that there are dumb girls out there that get loaded and sleep with a bunch of dummies simply because they're on the football team. This girl however didn't have a chance to excuse herself from what you consider to be the majority of other girls out there.

Thanks for your attempt at sophistry though. I get what you're saying. You're just not up to speed yet.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 61
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History
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 3/21/2013 7:37:48 PM

Penn State has a rape culture: people raping boys, and even when the police were called, nothing was done, the case was dropped, and people were possibly killed over it.

So, in order to establish a rape culture, the following has to occur:
1. Someone has to have had forced sex
2. Someone has to cover it up
3. The police are strangely inactive, even when informed
4. Death is a possibility

Steubenville doesn't have a rape culture

Let's see if the Steubenville situation fits your 'rape culture' criteria:
1. A girl err .. had sex, albeit completely unaware of it
2. The participants and the coach tried to cover it up; other people may have tried to as well
3. The Chief of Police was unable to get any evidence; the local prosecutor was unwilling to press charges
4. The victim has received death threats.
5. During the assault, the victim was constantly spoken of as being "dead". If she had been, I doubt the people involved could have been any more brutal and unemotional about her welfare.

Hmmm ..... let me see ... what is the major difference between the Penn State case and the Steubenville case? I know! It was because boys were forced to have sex - so it must have been rape! Girls, of course, can't be "forced" to have sex, so it couldn't possibly have been rape. I get it! /sarcasm


the majority of girls and women in that town, would probably give anything to be in the raped girl's position, to be the one who was so piss drunk she could hardly stand, getting plowed on camera by the entire football team

Rape is rape whether it's a boy being 'seduced' by the coach, or a girl being assaulted when she's passed out. Do you think the coach at Penn State thought much differently than you do? He just directed your convenient 'oh they secretly want it' rationalization to boys rather than girls.


it was after the fact remorse.

They boys certainly felt some after-the-fact remorse. Unfortunately, it didn't seem to have anything to do with the girl they'd raped, but rather that they'd advertised it so well that it couldn't be successfully covered up and they were caught.

I know, a DPoS like you isn't likely to develop any empathy or compassion from an internet discussion forum. The best one could hope for is a bit of Karma up your a$$, although if you are ever in that position, I could only assume you must want to be there.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 63
view profile
History
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 3/21/2013 8:41:48 PM
Had this girl been sober, and aware of her surroundings, and not hanging out with these boys, then this wouldn't have happened.


No. If the people she was hanging around with hadn't been savages deserving of several life times behind bars, none of this would have happened. HUGE difference. HUGE. You've burried yourself in entirely too much sophomorish rhetoric to get that. But it will come. Keep at it.

Just out of curiosity, are women in short skirts also asking to be raped?
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