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 AUTHOR
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 185
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Steubenville rape casePage 7 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
#192

Yup. According to the FBI, 8 percent of rape cases were unfounded, which means that there wasn't enough evidence to prosecute.


The lack of enough evidence to prosecute a person suspected of rape doesn't show he did not commit that crime, any more than the existence of enough evidence to prosecute a person for rape proves he did commit it.


So it would make someone pretty fcuking obtuse to claim that since some women lie then all rape allegations are suspect.


What tends to make claims of rape suspect is not that some women may lie about it, so much as the unusual nature of the crime. There are often no witnesses except the people involved, and there may be no physical evidence that the intercourse was not consensual. In contrast, if someone robs a bank there are often witnesses other than the employee who is robbed, and the act involved is not something people also engage in consensually.


because a lot of police officers have the same attitude you do toward rape and didn't think it was a big enough deal to lay charges.


In the U.S. it's not the police who decide whether to charge a person with rape, but whatever public prosecutor's office is involved. That's usually the district attorney of the county.
 NDTfan
Joined: 6/5/2012
Msg: 186
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 4/14/2013 12:12:16 PM

^^^^^^ Oh My God!!!! I love this entire post! +100%!!!!


:D


The lack of enough evidence to prosecute a person suspected of rape doesn't show he did not commit that crime, any more than the existence of enough evidence to prosecute a person for rape proves he did commit it.


And? I was replying to someone who claimed that the rape of Rehtaeh Parsons was just "seduction" because the police didn't lay charges. It's the "logic" he used when he implied that rape claims are suspect because some women lie. I was simply pointing out that according to HIS "logic" then 8 out of 100 women AT MOST could have lied about rape. I was shooting holes in his arguments.

But thanks for pointing out the obvious... Derp.


What tends to make claims of rape suspect is not that some women may lie about it, so much as the unusual nature of the crime. There are often no witnesses except the people involved, and there may be no physical evidence that the intercourse was not consensual. In contrast, if someone robs a bank there are often witnesses other than the employee who is robbed, and the act involved is not something people also engage in consensually.


So what you're saying is that since rape is hard to prove then rape rarely happens? You miss the part where the FBI studies show that at least 92% of the time there is at least enough evidence to lay charges even if it didn't end with a conviction?

Derp.


In the U.S. it's not the police who decide whether to charge a person with rape, but whatever public prosecutor's office is involved. That's usually the district attorney of the county.


The case we were talking about happened in Canada. Where the RCMP DO make the decision as to whether or not charges will be laid.

Derp.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 187
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History
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 4/14/2013 12:21:12 PM
The case we were talking about happened in Canada. Where the RCMP DO make the decision as to whether or not charges will be laid.


The crown does make the decision to proceed in most cases but that decision is based on the evidence the RCMP presents. And if the RCMP doesn't do an investigation other than...we have no frickin' idea who took that damn picture...the crown has no choice but to suggest a lack of evidence.

Seriously...how mental is that? We see this picture right here but there's no way to tell who took it so we give up. We're not even going to ask anyone who took it. It's borderline evil.

I completely agree with #192. You've nailed it.
 NDTfan
Joined: 6/5/2012
Msg: 188
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 4/14/2013 12:42:39 PM

The crown does make the decision to proceed in most cases but that decision is based on the evidence the RCMP presents. And if the RCMP doesn't do an investigation other than...we have no frickin' idea who took that damn picture...the crown has no choice but to suggest a lack of evidence.


Actually, that's not quite correct. The police do make the decision when it comes to laying charges (although they can ask for advice for the crown prosecutor as to whether or not those charges will go anywhere before they do it) . The crown prosecutor decides if charges that have already been laid will continue to court or be dropped.

If police don't bring charges, crown prosecutors may not even see the case at all.

http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/pi/pcvi-cpcv/guide/secc.html


Sometimes the police are completely inept... one wouldn't even look at evidence of a crime that I had or write up the report I was making (so that it would be investigated at least) until I let it "casually" drop that the leader of the opposition for my province at the time was a family friend. Didn't take long for the pen to come out.
 hoopsnhikes
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 189
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 4/14/2013 1:28:05 PM

As one look at that girls twitter and tumbler feed would show you she was no innocent little girl, she was a sexually promiscuous young lady who was into lots of bad stuff and was not shy about telling the world about it.

And one look at your posting history shows that you like to instigate, agitate, and provoke through constant trolling on internet message boards. But this in no way would justify any sort of physical action against you as a result, under the guise of "well, he was asking for it."


There was no photos, there was a photo and from what I understand it was no more pornographic than stuff she was already posting on her own.

So, it has to be more than one photo to make it a bad thing? I don't know how it works in Canada, but I wouldn't think that whether or not she posted anything on her own would have any bearing on how "acceptable" it is for someone else to do it.


So now there are multiple photos?

You are still harping on the one photo thing? Well, maybe she was only raped once too, or once by each guy...then I guess it wouldn't be so bad, huh.


I guess it is a good thing though that most people limit this behavior to pretty white girls because there would be no way they could keep up if they cared about the all the others.

Most? Are you just yelling at clouds again? While it is true that some people are as obsessed with the color of people's skin as you seem to be, I'm not so sure that "most" are. FYI: victims can be of any race.


To make the claim that she killed herself because she was raped, brings up the questions as then why do not all people who are raped kill themselves?

This was probably the biggest gem of them all.

Genetics. Everyone is wired differently. Not everyone reacts the same way or handles every situation the same. I could have sworn you knew about this sort of thing.


Absolutely moronic nonsensical straw man distraction bs. You're what's wrong with men.

Actually you are displaying the very behavior that is described with MWG Syndrome, so stay classy and keep those personal insults coming, as I enjoy the irony of someone showing outrage to bullies while showing they are one themselves..

He was responding to your post which more or less implied that he was a racist who only cared about white people. I guess that sort of unfounded accusation must be the epitome of "classiness."

The derp, it burns.
 ouija2013
Joined: 12/9/2012
Msg: 190
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 4/14/2013 2:56:03 PM
The RCMP are reopening the case.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 191
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History
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 4/14/2013 3:01:04 PM
#195

So what you're saying is that since rape is hard to prove then rape rarely happens?


No, that's what you are saying.


But thanks for pointing out the obvious


What I was pointing out didn't seem at all obvious to you.


The case we were talking about happened in Canada.


That's nice. But the topic of this thread is an incident that took place in Ohio, not in Canada--and if I feel like commenting about how criminal charges are brought in the U.S., I will.
 NewAZGurl21
Joined: 3/16/2013
Msg: 192
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History
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 4/14/2013 5:16:06 PM

Young girls need to be taught not to get drunk and pass out at parties, and boys need to be taught that taking advantage of those girls is not right and will put you in prison.



So why aren't we blaming the alcohol?



Of course they did.
Minus the booze, how would this incident have played out?



Ok first off this girl did not get drunk. she was at a volleyball party and had a few beers. then these guys took her to a different party and drugged her with ruffies. SHE had no control once that drug entered her system. All of you guys have you ever been ruffied??? Im assuming not. you are 100% out of it and can barely walk, plus its dangerous. these guys are the scum of the earth and the ex boyfriend is also scum (he had this set up). And to all the guys in this forum saying she shouldnt have dressed the way she did, and she was asking for it. IT was the end of summer she was wearing shorts (the type of shorts all young girls wear). Actually down here in AZ i have seen girls wear shorts that look like underwear, her shorts were longer. plus she was wearing layered tank tops. If you look at the photos of her at the volleyball party, ALL the girls were wearing similar outfits. so no her Clothes WERENT ASKING FOR IT!!! many of the men in here are older men who might have kids. so many of the people in this forum disgust me. and to the top quote so if a guy gets drunk and passes out, and a guy rapes him would you be saying what you are. NO

Sidenote THANK YOU ANONOMOUS!!!!!
 NDTfan
Joined: 6/5/2012
Msg: 193
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 4/14/2013 10:05:41 PM

No, that's what you are saying.


Well since you said....


What tends to make claims of rape suspect is not that some women may lie about it, so much as the unusual nature of the crime.


And any claims of rape are "suspect" because of the "unusual nature of the crime" then the people bringing those claims are "suspect" are they not? Because you can't say that you suspect it isn't true without insinuating that the person making that claim is a liar.

Derp.


What I was pointing out didn't seem at all obvious to you.


What kind of reply is this? You might as well have said "Oh yeah?!?! Well, you too!"

Derp


That's nice. But the topic of this thread is an incident that took place in Ohio, not in Canada--and if I feel like commenting about how criminal charges are brought in the U.S., I will.


Give'er.... but if people think you look stupid because you're replying to a specific comment with something completely unrelated (especially if you're trying to refute what they're saying) then don't complain.

Derp.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 194
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History
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 4/15/2013 12:17:10 AM
Because you can't say that you suspect it isn't true without insinuating that the person making that claim is a liar.


"Liar" is a pretty strong word. In a highly charged encounter with no other witnesses, the people involved may have different stories, and in court no one knows what the truth is. But you can be sure if I were defending a man accused of rape, I would do everything the law allowed to make his accuser out a liar.


(especially if you're trying to refute what they're saying) then don't complain.


I haven't complained about anything here, and I was not trying to refute anything anyone had said. You might want to try taking that chip off your shoulder and striving for rational, considered observations. When you don't do that, people may think you look stupid. Continually using "derp" or similar terms to try to demean people you disagree with, in a vain attempt to make your arguments seem stronger in comparison, may very well have the same effect. There's no surer way to show everyone your game is weak than to rely on ad hominem attacks. The person who does that is also asking to be dismissed as an angry crank who's not to be taken seriously.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 196
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History
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 4/15/2013 8:33:42 AM

Am I forgetting anything?
You forgot to tell her that the way she dresses (even if it's not really revealing) invites rape.

Some young ladies are just really cute and considered "hot" because of it. They'd be considered "hot" even in a Middle Eastern robe and burka. But remember, it's their fault because the males of the species find them so "hot". It "invites" date rape, groping, inappropriate touching, forced kisses on various parts of their body and just outright rape ... because as we know, men & boys are turned on by the hot young "hottie" ... and it's her fault then if they are turned on and just can't control themselves.

I have 3 very attractive daughters and I went over that with them very early on. The best advice is to make sure they know how to defend themselves (my daughters have all been schooled in martial arts), don't drink any alcohol while away from home ... even with so-called trusted friends, and while out, don't drink any drink that you don't watch as it's being prepared or that doesn't come from an unopened bottle. My daughters carry their own water with them in their purses. They also know not to leave a drink sitting on a table or bar when excusing themselves to go to the bathroom.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 197
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Steubenville rape case
Posted: 4/15/2013 9:30:59 AM
I think you've pretty much nailed it, except for

3) "Never tell a lie!!

Not sure this will help, because if one female, at any time or at any place, has ever lied about anything sexual, well that means all females are suspect. Cause we're all interconnected like the Borg, we're all one individual in several bodies.
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 198
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History
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 4/15/2013 2:29:52 PM
^^^ Nobody deserves to be raped, period. Not even prisoners by other prisoners, or guards, not girls who are passed out, or boys who attend a Catholic Church. Nobody is less a victim due to age, behavior, dress or gender.
 CharminC
Joined: 2/19/2011
Msg: 200
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 4/16/2013 9:07:38 AM
I'm noticing some of the posters are confusing one case of gang rape with another ( I say gang because each case clearly had more than one perpetrator) and posters are bantering back and forth who did what, who didn't do what.
Yet no one pointed out that it is one case too many happening lately not just all over the world but right here in North America and it's causing such confusion. It's becoming a blur of verbal mud slinging between opposing views.

For all those who say "She shouldn't drink so much" or "She shouldn't dress that way", etc...etc,they are not offering solutions. They are part of the problem because they are providing an excuse for the rapists.

I was watching a foreign movie over the weekend called The Source. In it was a mother, in an outrage, speaking to her grown son, a muslim who wanted women to cover themselves. Basically, in my own words, she was saying; "Why must we wear veils?! We are women and we should be proud of it. It is our god-given human right. It's not our fault if you can't control yourselves. It is up to you to control yourselves, not us."
I couldn't have agreed more!

Yes, I do realize there are those who "lie" but if you pick it apart, you will see there is always a reason leading to that lie. If we educate the proper values of respect to each young person, male and female and make sure it is maintained everywhere (ie: no favoritism in sports allowing them to misbehave), it can separate the true culprits from those everyone is pointing fingers at assuming they are. Making the culprits accountable from the get go.
With social media so easily at our fingertips creating mass assumptions, it is more impertinent than ever to teach ... well.. bottom line...of manners.
Let me ask this in regards to the girls getting drunk, being seductive even, aren't there any gentlemen left to do the right thing?
Judging from these incidents, I think not. This right here tells me, too many are part of the problem.
For everyone, man or woman, the elderly or children in any country, home or street.... this rape culture needs to stop. Do not be part of the problem and give the rapists any excuses.
 59thShadeofGrey
Joined: 9/25/2012
Msg: 201
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 4/17/2013 9:34:36 AM

Her eyes can't be saying "yes."


And grannie panties only - no thongs. And def no 'commando'. No female has the right to choose her own undergarments...
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 202
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History
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 4/17/2013 9:54:59 AM
^^^ I'm thinking those long drawers women wore in the Victorian era should be brought back. What about chastity belts? I'm sure they could be made a lot more comfortable with the modern materials available today.
 PROTON67
Joined: 4/26/2012
Msg: 203
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 4/17/2013 10:09:34 AM
How come 99% of people in jail for sex crimes are men? If, as everyone claims, men and women should be truly equal, in positive things, then why not negative things too? Why this disparity? What are women doing to contribute to sex crimes that is being ignored? In muslim countries women are blamed for almost all sex crimes so they wrap them up like a burrito, and if the matter ever came to a vote, there are more of them than there are of us. Are we totally right and the muslims all wrong or is the truth somewhere in between? And if the truth is somewhere in between then just what are women getting by with here that they should not?
 4ms4me
Joined: 4/24/2010
Msg: 204
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History
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 4/17/2013 10:59:23 AM

How come 99% of people in jail for sex crimes are men?

Because most sex crimes are carried out by men. So are most violent crimes, but men are also most often the victimes of violent crime, except rape, so right there one can see a gender difference related to sex crimes.

men and women should be truly equal, in positive things, then why not negative things too?

There are different theories about why women aren't as visible in violent crimes as men, from biological differences to different social expectations. It has been noted that violent crime has been increasing among female adolescents, so possibly a time will come when female incarceration will match that of males.

Anyway, I don't see the point of insisting that because males are violent, then women should be equally as violent.

Why this disparity? What are women doing to contribute to sex crimes that is being ignored?

One major problem in this area is that men still hesitate to come forward when they've been sexually abused by women, because they'll be considered "lucky" by many men and at least some women, and men are supposed to be the sexual aggressors so how they possibly be aggressed against? (It's sorta like the "slut" theory: she liked it, she asked for it, therefore rape isn't possible.) Its also true that for quite a long time, women were considered essentially incapable of being criminals of any kind, and so their crime was ignored. However, that is changing as it becomes clear that women can be just as violent as men, at least non-sexually. In terms of sexual behavior, I think there's a signficant enough difference between men and women so that women will never match men for sex crimes, but that's merely an opinion that might be changed if evidence is presented.
 deerdog1
Joined: 12/29/2006
Msg: 205
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 4/17/2013 12:01:34 PM
for me this comes down to one point ..it is always wrong to have sex with someone who is not able to fully consent ... I was taught this from a early age ..and have never even wanted to stray from it ..I hidnt have sex with my wife on my wedding night for exactly that reason she had too much to drink and passed out .. there have been many occasions where my date was drunk and I could have took advantage and most likely it would have been ok but even if it is ..where is the pleasure from having sex with someone who is not going to remember it in the morning ...always when a woman becomes drunk I become their protector
 PROTON67
Joined: 4/26/2012
Msg: 207
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 4/17/2013 2:15:13 PM
I'm sorry Kathie. I didn't mean to disturb anyone. I'll review what I've said to see if I could have said it better. But if people are disturbed by just reading a couple of my posts, just imagine how disturbed I must feel, I actually have to live with me.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 210
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 5/28/2013 10:08:37 AM
#214

... Its also true that for quite a long time, women were considered essentially incapable of being criminals of any kind, and so their crime was ignored. However, that is changing as it becomes clear that women can be just as violent as men, at least non-sexually.

Very true, as some women will pretend to be all nice when in reality they are heartless psychopaths.

Because harassment and defamation is one thing and the local authorities really will not do much about it, but when the psycho takes it to a new level with death threats, then the RCMP tend to take notice.

So I guess it is a good thing that these sites that allow you to slander others keep records and so do the ISP's.

So those women who where once thought as essentially being incapable of criminal acts can and will be brought to justice and shown to the world the people that they really are. Though that is, if they are even female to being with.
 Midwest_Southwest
Joined: 9/9/2012
Msg: 212
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 6/12/2013 8:19:28 AM
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/06/11/man-who-helped-expose-steubenville-rapists-faces-more-jail-time-than-they-do/

It appears as though one of the young men who made this case public was searched and is now facing a possible sentence 5 times the length of the sentences that the convicted received. We really need to reexamine our values and priorities as a society.
 Hozo
Joined: 8/1/2006
Msg: 213
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History
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 12/4/2013 8:21:46 PM
I realise it has been a while, but I thought I would do a favour and give the latest update. Here locally, this case has wrapped up as of the end of November. The special Grand jury has indicted 4 more people after months of investigation. The attorney general states that the investigation is now over.




Schools Chief Among 4 Indicted In Steubenville Rape Case

by Mark Memmott

November 25, 201311:53 AM

Four adults, including the superintendent of the city's schools, have been indicted by a grand jury on charges related to the aftermath and alleged attempted coverup of a teenage girl's 2012 rape by members of the high school football team in Steubenville, Ohio.

Ohio Attorney Gen. Mike DeWine just announced that news.

The case became national news after some of the boys who were involved posted pictures of the victim and accounts of what they had done on social media. That triggered an online campaign to press local authorities to investigate and prosecute. DeWine's office took over the case.

Last March, two boys were found guilty of rape. In October, the head of technology for Steubenville City Schools was accused of tampering with evidence.

Now, WOWK-TV reports, Steubenville City Schools Superintendent Michael McVey has been "charged with tampering with evidence, obstruction of justice and falsification." Also charged: elementary school principal Lynett Gorman, for alleged failure to report child abuse; wrestling coach Seth Fluharty, for alleged failure to report child abuse; and volunteer football coach Matthew Belardine, "who faces charges allowing underage drinking, obstructing official business, falsification, and contributing to the delinquency of a minor."

Update at 12:20 p.m. ET. More Details:

DeWine's office has now posted information about the indictments.

The statement says, in part:

"Michael McVey, 50 years old, of Steubenville, has been indicted on five counts:

— One count of Tampering with Evidence, a third degree felony

— Two counts of Obstructing Justice, a fifth degree felony

— One count of Falsification, a first degree misdemeanor

— One count of Obstructing Official Business, a second degree misdemeanor

"McVey is the superintendent of Steubenville City Schools. If convicted on all counts, McVey could serve up to seven years and 270 days in prison.

"Matthew Belardine, 26, of Steubenville, has been indicted on four counts:

— Underage Persons Offenses Concerning ("beer or intoxicating liquor"), a first degree misdemeanor

— Obstructing Official Business, a second degree misdemeanor

— Falsification, a first degree misdemeanor

— Contributing to the Unruliness or Delinquency of a Child, a first degree misdemeanor

"Belardine is a former assistant high school football coach for Steubenville City Schools. If convicted on all counts, Belardine could serve up to one year and 265 days in jail.

"Seth Fluharty, 26, of Wintersville, has been indicted on one count regarding Reporting Child Abuse or Neglect, a fourth degree misdemeanor. Fluharty is an assistant wrestling coach and special education teacher for Steubenville City Schools. If convicted, Fluharty could serve up to 30 days in jail.

"Lynnett Gorman, 40, of Steubenville, has been indicted on one count regarding Reporting Child Abuse or Neglect, a fourth degree misdemeanor. Gorman is the Principal of West Elementary in Steubenville. If convicted, Gorman could serve up to 30 days in jail."
 statemachine500
Joined: 8/25/2011
Msg: 214
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 12/5/2013 3:06:54 AM
^^^
Good to see they went after the people looking the other way.
 localRenoite12
Joined: 4/17/2013
Msg: 215
Steubenville rape case
Posted: 12/11/2013 1:28:10 AM

How come 99% of people in jail for sex crimes are men? If, as everyone claims, men and women should be truly equal, in positive things, then why not negative things too? Why this disparity? What are women doing to contribute to sex crimes that is being ignored? In muslim countries women are blamed for almost all sex crimes so they wrap them up like a burrito, and if the matter ever came to a vote, there are more of them than there are of us. Are we totally right and the muslims all wrong or is the truth somewhere in between? And if the truth is somewhere in between then just what are women getting by with here that they should not?


There's more men in prison for sex crimes because men commit more sex crimes... It's not a difficult concept to grasp. There's really no point of debating the issue with you though since you seem like a raging misogynist who vouches for an oppressive society towards women.
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