Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Australia  > Germaine would be so proud.      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 greyingred
Joined: 6/12/2008
Msg: 50
view profile
History
Germaine would be so proud.Page 3 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)

-and I know some may come after me for posting to this, but Natasha Stott Despoja was pretty damn hot, and if I remember correctly -- she fought to have the GST removed from Tampons <--- on topic for the win...


Yup, you won the entire thread with that one and made me laugh (thanks) after a long day in a hot shed painting things that will ultimately get put back into theatre storage to be repainted.....a bit like some of the plastic women and men that seems to be de rigour nowadays.

Still gripe about GST on tampons...maybe we should all bleed on Parliament steps complaining about red tape and blue string.
 greyingred
Joined: 6/12/2008
Msg: 51
view profile
History
Germaine would be so proud.
Posted: 1/31/2013 6:43:42 AM
Why do you take such offense at this, raising it's ugly (to you) head?

Because this issue is almost entirely gender specific to women and most men have absolutely no direct experience of the dibilitating and humiliating lifelong consequences of appearance mattering more than substance within the public sphere. Due to enculturation it is perfectly acceptable for men to denegrate a woman because she does not fit the archetypal ideal body and face (try dealing with the open disgust and stares because you have decided not to shave your legs for a couple of weeks and shock upon shock it is too hot to wear anything but shorts...meh I don't give a monkeys but the disapproval on men's and (sadly) women's faces can make some women feel terrible. Why oh why, it is natural pelt, 2 years ago I grew and dyed my armpit hair purple and pink...bloody hysterical seeing strangers faces). Try denegrating a man on his visage as a powerplay of specious one-up-manship and it has very little effect because it is more important who he is and what he does. It is like racism...no not like, it is racism or genderism and yes it does make me see red. The only group of men I can think of who would also have similar experiences are homosexuals. One of the sexist men in movies is Gerard Depardieu, oh what a nose lol. I cannot think of one woman in the movies who takes leading romantic roles whose face is not some generic infantilisation of womanhood. Yes I get the point that in general women's features are smaller and neater than men but seriously?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh yes got one, Barbara Streisand but actually she is an attractive woman, outside the norm of babyfaced airheads and what a nose.Why do I keep thinking of Asterix and Cleopatra when talking about noses?

As for weight, I weigh enough not to float out into outerspace unless of course you care toshare the bottle of red..which I no longer drink....sigh.....the joys of being beyond my prime. Over and out, yours insincerely Miss Jean Brodie.
 Swanniie
Joined: 1/9/2013
Msg: 52
Germaine would be so proud.
Posted: 1/31/2013 10:00:45 PM
"Feminism is not a dirty word. It does not mean you hate men, it does not mean you hate girls who have nice legs and a tan, and it does not mean you are a **** or a dyke, it means you believe in equality."
-Kate Nash, English singer songwriter
 Back.up
Joined: 1/7/2013
Msg: 53
Germaine would be so proud.
Posted: 1/31/2013 11:46:38 PM
'most men have absolutely no direct experience of the dibilitating and humiliating lifelong consequences of appearance mattering more than substance within the public sphere' - I do not know how to quote on here but grey wrote the above.

a) are you are suggesting men can have no role in the discussion of female oppression b) are you claiming you have some authority to define the male experience?

Grey, it is fine to promote your own view, agenda etc - but I have a problem when people claim to represent others. This is especially so when there seems to be evidence that this is impossible. If your argument had credibility there would be countless women up in arms like you are. I return to my previous post - you don't see too mny pretty females complaining about the inherent sexism of society.

Swannie, if feminism is about equality then it has a problem. We all need to get over this notion of equality, I think we are all born different and have different strengths and weaknesses. Men are physically stronger than women, black men are faster than white guys - you can make your arguements about not all men are stronger then all women, and site the odd example of a strong girl who works in your building, but 9 times out of ten, that is what happens. In that sense we are not equal and never will be. I think the argument needs to be reworked and become an issue of liberty - in that context 'genderism' or 'sexism' or whatever ism you wanna use would come under the auspice of negotiating a social contract that ensures a certain degree of liberty, whereby a persons right or capacity to choice and self autonomy (with limits, hence it is a negotiation) is ensured by the mass.

Then again, I could be wrong.
 Swanniie
Joined: 1/9/2013
Msg: 54
Germaine would be so proud.
Posted: 2/1/2013 12:30:19 AM
My quote up there was something I saw on facebook and I idly posted it.. not realising my being temporarily unable to post in here was over. .. everything I have posted for the last day hasnt gone thru... I was suprised when that did.
its not necessarily reflecting my thoughts..

Now it is pure co incidence that Ms Greer is a feminist.. I used her as an example because when I saw Ms Plowmans video, my first thougt was the line from her book that we used to be grossed out in high school. I thought.. oh finally this lady has someone followng her.. knowing full well Ms Plowman has not probably even heard of Ms Greer, let alone the book.. but thinking maybe Ms Greer punched a hole in the air in excitment when SHE saw the video.. or facepalmed who knows.
because Ms Greer is indeed a feminist, the thread took off in that agenda .. and I had a long reply I had for ms Nammah but it was lost for the period I was unable to post. (no pun intended)

I have met Ms Greer and while she was laughing and relaxed .. was not ugly as suggested all feminists are ugly.
If you read my opening remarks, I said QUITE clearly that I had no idea of making my oetsrogen compete with mens testosterone. They are differet.. thus making us different.
Certain abilities are the same however. For example a male chef may make Mille-feuille better than me, I may make a Gugelhopf better than a male german financier..
I may walk in a straight line as equally as a male walking beside me..
Abilities is not determining equality.
 Back.up
Joined: 1/7/2013
Msg: 55
Germaine would be so proud.
Posted: 2/1/2013 12:42:57 AM
ok, I just had a closer read of yo0ur post and I apologise. I get your point now.

It shows the responsibility that those who shape views, opinions etc through rhetoric and discourse have when it comes to the actions of those they inspire or influence. This realisation has shaped the way I view human relations. Think of some of the significant contributions made throughout history. It is interesting the way those views come to influence broader society. For example, Hegel > Marx> Lenin> Stalin. The process is interesting and tempts to me to want to pack up and live in a cave ha.
 tinapenny
Joined: 8/30/2010
Msg: 56
Germaine would be so proud.
Posted: 2/1/2013 12:52:19 AM

If your argument had credibility there would be countless women up in arms like you are
Trolling? Of course sexism exists. It's a constant and the fact that we're not all screaming is more to do with having been bludgeoned into insensibility and being polite about the situation than that it doesn't exist.

One of my first jobs was in a Bank where I was assigned the typists role (lowliest position) while a young bloke that started just after me was quickly pushed along to being teller one. Welcome to the working world. The Bank was known to be dismissive of women because 'they were just going to have babies' and has only more recently started to promote women. This reflects societal expectations that are changing and is in large part due to the work of militant feminists because nothing changes without effort.
 Swanniie
Joined: 1/9/2013
Msg: 57
Germaine would be so proud.
Posted: 2/1/2013 1:04:09 AM
Actually Tinapenny, as I read what you wrote, I think of more recent generations - completely unaware of the suffragettes, the fights to not be treated poorly in the workplace and other militant action y0u wrote about. if care is not taken, things may degenirate (sp) degenerate? oh whats the word, .. anyway will go back to how it was in a sense due to flippant attitudes and careless work ethics..Maybe not to dark ages stuff, but..there is no way of accurately guessing how life will be for a few generations time. It would seem in any event , immaturity and extended teenage fun is impacting on any serious or sensible future.. (We need to remind . as you said this generation of how good they have it...)
which brings me back to the topic.. may I present Ms Plownans behaviour as an example


.back up. one little request, in this and a few other posts you have written a comment, directed at a post or person, but sometimes a few ppl have posted along the way, and it is not clear to whom you may be addressing.
Eg is that a response
yes, my language was clumsy and I deserved a whack.
to my last post or tinapennys coment or both.
Cheers..

back to your comment, yes the word femminist,, tends to generate a mental image and its not usually a positive one.


.
 Moon_Rocket
Joined: 4/20/2012
Msg: 58
view profile
History
Germaine would be so proud.
Posted: 2/1/2013 4:01:44 AM
Ok so now everyone is getting serious again, ( big sigh.)

Time to work on the tractor methinks whilst I think of....

Feminazis, tampons, er, teenage fun, etc, ( just to stay on topic of course!)
 Swanniie
Joined: 1/9/2013
Msg: 59
Germaine would be so proud.
Posted: 2/1/2013 4:07:15 AM
personally I am quite happy to watch the topic develop its own course.. it really covers a lot of minor topics.. apart from correct feminine hygiene disposal, teenagers and social media, feminists, public speakers, gender roles- in work, home and in the form of dating... for a start..
 Moon_Rocket
Joined: 4/20/2012
Msg: 60
view profile
History
Germaine would be so proud.
Posted: 2/1/2013 4:45:06 AM
Hey wait a minute!

I just realized Red was taking the piss out of yours truly...


most men have absolutely no direct experience of the dibilitating (sic) and humiliating lifelong consequences of appearance mattering more than substance within the public sphere.
Message 65.

That quote's for me.....Red are you absolutely joking????

Men suffer rejection at the hands of women almost every time they approach a female at a pub, club, bar, dance, etc, etc, you fill in the spaces! And why? Do these sound familiar?

"Wow, what a jerk!" "What a creep!" "God he's ugly!" "He's like a rake, yechht!" "Ha ha, did you see his face when I told him we were only hiring hot men tonight?" Hey I could keep going for another 10,000 words but why bother because you know what I am saying is true!

You think YOU guys are so special when it comes to appearance mattering? Yeah you MUST be joking because for a split second there I thought you were smart!

Guys are ABSOLUTELY judged by women on appearance period! Day in, day out! and having 3 daughters I see it from the inside so don't even think about keeping up that lame old argument 'cause it just a fairy story!

Truth is, if you are hot, you get the girls, if you are not? You better develop good interpersonal skills, quick, or you ain't gittin' no girls, period!

This argument that you are presenting under the guise of feminism is BS, patronizing and untrue. Fair enough if you want to pursue it but really, it does show you in an unflattering light. Bitter, uneducated in relationship dynamics and clueless in the empathy stakes when viewing things from a males perspective.

Christ, I am more of a feminist than you, at least I view men and women without rose colored glasses on.

Bugga the tractor, you're, driving me to drink!
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 61
view profile
History
Germaine would be so proud.
Posted: 2/1/2013 5:05:22 AM

You better develop good interpersonal skills, quick, or you ain't gittin' no girls, period!


Pun intended?
 Moon_Rocket
Joined: 4/20/2012
Msg: 62
view profile
History
Germaine would be so proud.
Posted: 2/1/2013 7:05:14 AM

You better develop good interpersonal skills, quick, or you ain't gittin' no girls, period!



Pun intended?


No, of course not, just complying with the thread ;-]
 Swanniie
Joined: 1/9/2013
Msg: 63
Germaine would be so proud.
Posted: 2/1/2013 3:08:20 PM
*you're

bwha ha ahahhahahaaaaaaaaa *full stop since the period puns are so done now!
 Swanniie
Joined: 1/9/2013
Msg: 64
Germaine would be so proud.
Posted: 2/2/2013 12:11:32 AM
I know. so smack me ":)

is now a good time to bring up my hysterectomy??
 peony-rose
Joined: 9/24/2012
Msg: 65
Germaine would be so proud.
Posted: 2/2/2013 12:18:06 AM
My own 2 cents worth:

I have found Ms Greer's writings very interesting up to a point, particularly with regards to the way History really does tell his story, disregarding her story. I grew up believing there had never been any female artists of great ability or repute. Ever notice how most art history books only discuss men? Women have been disadvantaged in a deplorable way until more recent times.

Also my own mother had a lovely job with a bank until she married and had to resign due to company policy in the 1960's. She had no choice in pursuing a career as well as a marriage. At least these days we have progressed in some ways.
 Swanniie
Joined: 1/9/2013
Msg: 66
Germaine would be so proud.
Posted: 2/2/2013 12:31:27 AM
Peony Rose (lovely name by the way)
Yes we have progressed, although sometimes working and raising a family is exhausting, I wish sometimes I could do one or the other.. but thats beside the point..
Videos and current teen trends I feel are going to drag us all back..
 greyingred
Joined: 6/12/2008
Msg: 67
view profile
History
Germaine would be so proud.
Posted: 2/3/2013 1:53:55 AM
a) are you are suggesting men can have no role in the discussion of female oppression b) are you claiming you have some authority to define the male experience?

a) nope. Will add cos obviously the acid has kicked in after the rohipnol wore off. that is the right of every woman (or man) to have a baby (even though he hasn't got a uterus) etc etc. b) nope, just opinionated personal view, gross generalisations and when god created man, she was only joking
.
you don't see too mny pretty females complaining about the inherent sexism of society.

Yes you do and in my youth I was one of them. more to the point was one of the pretty young ones dancing on stage with alternative career being P.A. Would infuriate me that because I was small and attractive that certain males would automatically dismiss me as 'airhead female'. I have just realised this never happened in theatre but always in office, 'proper' business. There were no grounds for the assumption because it would be their first reaction upon first meeting, therefore my (opinionated) deduction was since it was in public working sphere, that they were a combination of one or all, a) chauvenist b) insecure c) dangerous (as in not good for my career if rubbed up the wrong way...i.e. point out what they are doing wrong). You learn to pick your battles and when the battle is your boss and potential income robber....hey thank god for Unions and feminism, eventually it should be less of an issue except during the adolescent years when hormones win the battle over reason for both genders. I have got office jobs merely because of the way I looked and took it anyway upping the salary with success due to their unconscious fantasy/guilt but was always wary of those bosses and only once almost came a cropper. Now one could argue quite successfully that this is what happens in the male career sphere anyway but being female puts you one gender rung below in the first place.

How many feminists does it take to change the lightbulb? None, that is what men are for. snicker snicker.
 Swanniie
Joined: 1/9/2013
Msg: 68
Germaine would be so proud.
Posted: 2/4/2013 3:03:50 PM
Funny you mention that in the workplace, I was in the same place for 16 years.. I started at the bottom scrubbing toilets aged 17 and left as the somewhat henpecked kitchen manager.. yet.. I was only ever seen as the baby, and reports I submitted were barely glanced at, new staff and supervisors treated me like I was the aprentice.., all my epxerince and skills were totally overlooked. Am going to guess it was because I was not a power headed career minded woman, but plodded along doing my job and accepting that everyone around me forgot I was no longer 17.
 MrsNaamah
Joined: 11/8/2011
Msg: 69
Germaine would be so proud.
Posted: 2/6/2013 9:59:22 PM

I do doubt that Miss Plowman would even know who Ms Greer is..

So the premise here is that Greer writes a book, mentions tasting menstrual blood but doesn’t mean it literally… then many years later a girl who doesn’t mention the book (and we can probably safely assume has never read the book) drinks menstrual blood, posts it on the internet, and the author of the book is held responsible.

Are we also going to point the finger at Freud for ‘two girls one cup’? :)


"Feminism is not a dirty word. It does not mean you hate men, it does not mean you hate girls who have nice legs and a tan, and it does not mean you are a b1tch or a dyke, it means you believe in equality." -Kate Nash, English singer songwriter

What a relief to see a glimmer of common sense after reading through comments that argue against "feminism" by portraying it as being some sort of aspiration to turn men & women into androgynous clones of each other... or as a movement that conspires to ensure that women never cook again even if they are really really hungry ...or even more laughable, to represent it as being purely there as the default position of women who are unattractive. Yeesh. So many strawman arguments, so little time.


We all need to get over this notion of equality…//…In that sense we are not equal and never will be.,
You seem to be repeatedly asserting that equality means ‘same’ in the way that clones are the same. But the sameness being sought in context of gender equality refers to sameness of things like value…worth…status…rights. It does not refer to a desire to be the same physically, or to have the same size arms, or to adopt the same mannerisms, or the same vocal range, or to p1ss standing up, or any of the other ridiculously oversimplistic stuff that gets bandied about by those who wish to portray that feminism is not logical and that feminists are not “real women”, exist only on the fringe of society, can never be desirable, and can never sustain a healthy relationship with a man. Those are very agenda-based attempts to undermine and deter, rather than any kind of truths. Feminism is not about wanting to be the same as men. Feminism is about wanting the same rights and opportunities in society as men. It’s a simple enough concept I would have thought.


can anyone name me ONE physically attractive feminist?
Yes. But this strategy of insisting that the only people who support feminism must be bitter, undesirable, butch, unattractive, man-haters, is just an attempt to negate the validity of a position by assigning an undesirable description to anyone who takes said position. Any attempt to defend the ‘prettiness’ of feminists would merely appear to endorse your opinion that it actually matters, when really it’s just an immature argument that is not worthy of response.


Hegel > Marx> Lenin> Stalin

But were they pretty?


I would like to know if the women reading this post feel comfortable with germaine greer representing them…
‘Female’ is not a gang, and it’s not a cult… it’s a gender. Germaine Greer does not think for me, nor represent me… any more than does anyone else, whether or not they also happen to have a vagina.
…and explaining the feminine experience?
Feminism aims to make sure that being female doesn’t mean having less rights than being male. Feminism did not reduce the rights of men… apart from removal of men’s previously existing rights to lawfully oppress/own women. Is that what anti-feminists find so objectionable? Do they seek a reversal of the changes ushered in by feminism, such as a reinstatement of the right to use the cane on their wife if she disobeyed, being able to force her to have sex and be confident the law won’t recognise it as rape, or being able to regard her as property? Or is just that they liked it better when they had a clearer advantage because women had less rights and opportunities than men with regards to education, voting, employment, legal protections, etc? I can only assume that strenuous objectors to equality must prefer the notion of inequality.

As for claims that Greer’s words messed with people’s ability to relate to the opposite gender. Personally, I tend to think that anyone who actually became confused about their role in life, or how to interact with their own partner, as a result of the written opinions of someone else (let alone someone they claim not to agree with) must have been pretty gormless to begin with. I suspect that being gormless is far more likely to be a significant liability in a relationship than reading Greer.
 Swanniie
Joined: 1/9/2013
Msg: 70
Germaine would be so proud.
Posted: 2/7/2013 1:39:02 AM
My connection between Ms Plowman and Ms Greer is something that although became an association in my mind, was not meant to be up for such in depth analysis...
light humour for those who think that way.. not a serious theory to present for argument.
 Spicyhandmodel
Joined: 7/31/2010
Msg: 71
Germaine would be so proud.
Posted: 2/7/2013 7:39:02 PM
Lets not forget that , on youtube, there is a vid of Germaine suggesting that if a father kisses his daugther/son on the head before going to bed, he is sexualising the child, but if the mother is not if she does this.

I'd say she has hatred towards men from that comment.
 Moon_Rocket
Joined: 4/20/2012
Msg: 72
view profile
History
Germaine would be so proud.
Posted: 2/8/2013 4:19:23 PM

I'd say she has hatred towards men from that comment.


I agree 100% (See message No 4)
 Swanniie
Joined: 1/9/2013
Msg: 73
Germaine would be so proud.
Posted: 2/9/2013 5:52:02 AM
that comment is messed up.
I wonder how different feminism would be if Ms Greer was excluded/ never existed as a femminist?
 tie_me_up81
Joined: 1/1/2013
Msg: 74
Germaine would be so proud.
Posted: 2/10/2013 9:51:36 AM
http://imgur.com/U3j9GYu

^ Because any opinion opposing almighty superior feminism is ZOMG misogyny.
Show ALL Forums  > Australia  > Germaine would be so proud.