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 bogan58
Joined: 12/30/2012
Msg: 76
Putting out too soon????Page 4 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
it all depends if she justs wants sex but she can still be g/f material
 Hearton64
Joined: 12/18/2012
Msg: 77
Putting out too soon????
Posted: 2/13/2013 3:10:15 AM

You are under the assumption that I'm a hypocrite or that I have a double standard. You are in fact judging me and you are wrong. The same applies to me. It takes two and I'm part of that two. When the foundation of a relationship is built on sex (the physical), it lacks substance and becomes difficult to sustain long-term. I'm a realist and am fully aware of this. Sure a relationship built on just sex works fine for most men, but not women. Women are wired to seek love through the back door of sex, while men are wired to seek sex through the back door of love.


This is such black or white thinking and a highly generalized theory.Both sexes are capable of either contextualizing or compartmentalizing love and sex.


I’m well aware of evolutionary theory and the influence of the unconscious, Furyan.
But responsible adults can still make conscious (ethical) sexual choices.

And I’ve often heard that men seek sex and women seek love. I find that too simplified, too categorical.
But I do see how it could be used to rationalize a pump-and-dump.

I think one-night-stands are fine if both parties know it’s just that, going in.


I wholeheartedly agree+++++++++++1!!!
 TheFuryan
Joined: 1/29/2013
Msg: 78
Putting out too soon????
Posted: 2/13/2013 11:24:50 AM

This is such black or white thinking and a highly generalized theory.Both sexes are capable of either contextualizing or compartmentalizing love and sex.



Is that right? You say black or white thinking, I say a realist view of it. While both sexes might be capable of distinguishing love from sex, can both sexes control their emotions and not let sex impact their ability to distinguish love from sex? Implying so would also imply that people also have control over who they are attracted to. Impulsive intimacy is the highway to heartbreak. I'm an advocate of waiting to have sex until there is a bond between the two individuals. Give the relationship time to shape. Sex should then be added to the relationship to strengthen that bond.

Almost half (46%) of the people who get married in the U.S. get divorced. Say what you want about me, but I think that's a problem. It's common practice to introduce sex into a relationship before the relationship has had time to shape. If you do what you've always done, then you get what you've always got.
 59thShadeofGrey
Joined: 9/25/2012
Msg: 79
Putting out too soon????
Posted: 2/13/2013 1:34:37 PM

Almost half (46%) of the people who get married in the U.S. get divorced. Say what you want about me, but I think that's a problem.


Of course it's a problem. But people get divorced regardless of how 'soon' they decided to become intimate, so I'm not sure what your point is.

My first wife and I had a mediocre sex life. We divorced over money.

My second wife and I had a splendiferous sex life. We divorced over character issues.

WTF does that have to do with when we decided to have sex??
 safaa30
Joined: 3/1/2012
Msg: 80
view profile
History
Putting out too soon????
Posted: 2/13/2013 2:13:07 PM
Its one thing to hold the sex to let the relationship develop

Its another thing to honestly feel there's nothing to left to know/chase/ look forward to after the sex

Its a completely different issue to disrespect the woman after a night of mutual intimacy. This here is total hypocrisy.
 TheFuryan
Joined: 1/29/2013
Msg: 81
Putting out too soon????
Posted: 2/13/2013 2:34:51 PM

Of course it's a problem. But people get divorced regardless of how 'soon' they decided to become intimate, so I'm not sure what your point is.


The evidence and research says otherwise. Here's my point since you seemed to miss it in my previous post that you are quoting. When sex is introduced very early in a relationship, it causes the progression speed of the relationship itself to speed up. Rather than going through the process of critically evaluating whether the relationship is right for them, people make the decision to move forward and then marry out of factors such as convenience, economics, or sex. All of these factors lead to less than satisfactory relationships and marriage that aren't sustainable for the long run.

The introduction of sex early on also results in people paying less attention to other important factors that would ultimately improve the relationship such as understanding, commitment, and emotional intimacy. Does that mean that every relationship or marriage where couples wait to have sex will last forever? Absolutely not, but the couples that waited to have sex and developed a better foundation getting to know and understand each other, are more equipped to handle things such as "character issues" or "money".
 59thShadeofGrey
Joined: 9/25/2012
Msg: 82
Putting out too soon????
Posted: 2/13/2013 2:42:08 PM

The evidence and research says otherwise.


Show this evidence and research then. Otherwise, it's just you typing on a keyboard....
 abmccray
Joined: 8/3/2008
Msg: 83
view profile
History
Putting out too soon????
Posted: 2/13/2013 2:49:58 PM

The evidence and research says otherwise.


Cite sources.

Also, it's a fallacy to apply statistics of percentages in a statement like this, which applies to an individual situation that rests on internal, as opposed to outside, variables. There are too many causation/correlation issues that can obviously come into play with something like this, to apply it to an individual level.

Also #2, it's also fallacious to use divorce as the negative variable, as it is not, by default, the negative in this situation.

For example, "people that have sex after marriage get divorced less than people who do not wait" is a statistical fact. However, the statement does not mean the married people are HAPPIER, it just means they're more likely to STAY MARRIED, which is an important distinction. And "staying married" is not always the optimal course. Given the correlation between religious people that frown on divorce or many of these people being from cultures that frown on divorce - it only makes this correlation more apparent.
 Spontastic
Joined: 1/15/2013
Msg: 84
Putting out too soon????
Posted: 2/13/2013 3:05:04 PM
I have been dating for 3 years and have had great friendships and relationships with women who put out early in the dating scene, the girl I am dating now did me on our first date. I also had the other experience where I waited and when we finally had sex it was blah at best and didn't improve. Needless to say a great friendship endures but no longer compatible as a couple. Sex is important so why not figure it out sooner and if that works then play harder to get and work on the relationship with sexual exploration as an occasional perk. Just my opinion and I do speak from the many experiences I have been blessed to be a part of.
 kjay41
Joined: 8/19/2012
Msg: 85
Putting out too soon????
Posted: 2/13/2013 3:17:36 PM
Like someone posted earlier, I believe you should at least know who you're dealing with. But if all you want is to get your rocks off, then by all means go for it (cautiously). But if you want something long term, get to know if that person is married, not a mass murderer....the basics lol
 TheFuryan
Joined: 1/29/2013
Msg: 86
Putting out too soon????
Posted: 2/13/2013 3:40:50 PM

Cite sources.

Also, it's a fallacy to apply statistics of percentages in a statement like this, which applies to an individual situation that rests on internal, as opposed to outside, variables. There are too many causation/correlation issues that can obviously come into play with something like this, to apply it to an individual level.

Also #2, it's also fallacious to use divorce as the negative variable, as it is not, by default, the negative in this situation.

For example, "people that have sex after marriage get divorced less than people who do not wait" is a statistical fact. However, the statement does not mean the married people are HAPPIER, it just means they're more likely to STAY MARRIED, which is an important distinction. And "staying married" is not always the optimal course. Given the correlation between religious people that frown on divorce or many of these people being from cultures that frown on divorce - it only makes this correlation more apparent.



Divorce is not the negative variable or negative in this situation. I'm not even sure read what I posted at this point. In fact, this is not even a statistical discussion about percentages. It's about the impact that early intimacy has on the sustainability and longevity of relationships and/or marriage. You know my view on it and why I have that view. Would you like to offer a different view other than "cite sources" because you could research for yourself. You don't need me to hold your hand, do you? Why take my word on it? See for yourself.
 BlokeInSydney
Joined: 5/7/2012
Msg: 87
Putting out too soon????
Posted: 2/13/2013 4:15:37 PM
Whether sex occurs on the first, second, tenth, twentieth date or even not at all has no bearing upon my respect for a woman.

I've had numerous relationships and even a marriage where sex happened on the first date and I certainly didn't think any less of my partners because we chose mutually to 'go with the moment'.

I never kept company though with women who held the view that sex was some sort of 'prize' to be given to the man deemed 'worthy', rather than something mutually exchanged between equals.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 88
Putting out too soon????
Posted: 2/13/2013 4:35:12 PM
people seek out what they want, from the beginning.

if they want a relationship, they seek someone who has that quality (shared belief systems, morals, viewpoints, etc) and whether the sex happens on the first date or the 50th, it won't matter--they choose the person, based on personality, who will be what they want.

if they want sex, then they'll get what they want, or they won't...and leave. there may be excuses and explanations, but there won't be a changing of the mind. they went in looking for what they got.

if a person doesn't know what they want, and hopes to trip over it, then thruout the relationship they will remain...vague, not knowing really what they want, and seem to be stumbling about as if they wouldn't know what they are looking for unless they tripped right over it.

show me the guy who "suddenly" thinks a woman is a slut b/c she gave it up 1.2 seconds too soon...and i'll show you a fellow who didn't respect women long before she "gave it up too soon."

what was HIS role in her giving it up too soon? what does it say about him that he slept w/ a woman he labels a slut? does it suggest he has little respect for himself? then how can he respect others?
 abmccray
Joined: 8/3/2008
Msg: 89
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History
Putting out too soon????
Posted: 2/13/2013 4:44:44 PM

Divorce is not the negative variable or negative in this situation. I'm not even sure read what I posted at this point. In fact, this is not even a statistical discussion about percentages. It's about the impact that early intimacy has on the sustainability and longevity of relationships and/or marriage. You know my view on it and why I have that view. Would you like to offer a different view other than "cite sources" because you could research for yourself. You don't need me to hold your hand, do you? Why take my word on it? See for yourself.


The only available information is based on surveys, which focus on divorce rates. I have not seen any studies that speak of what you were saying, ie. "certain psychological aspects or certain intricate parts of the relationship which cannot be measured or compared are proven to be different once you have sex at different points in the relationship." And I'm not the only one in this thread that has. My defense was around the only related studies I've seen.

As the person introducing previously unknown (by most of the people in the discussion) information into a discussion, the onus falls on you to provide the sources for that information so that others can see. That is obvious, since people often misremember or make up things, putting the onus on the person questioning the information provides an easy out for the person making up the fiction when the non-existent information cannot be found.
 jp6484
Joined: 11/19/2010
Msg: 90
view profile
History
Putting out too soon????
Posted: 2/13/2013 5:28:19 PM
totally agree with you...best response ive seen!
 jp6484
Joined: 11/19/2010
Msg: 91
view profile
History
Putting out too soon????
Posted: 2/13/2013 5:30:21 PM
totally agree with you...best response ive seen!
 TheFuryan
Joined: 1/29/2013
Msg: 92
Putting out too soon????
Posted: 2/13/2013 6:01:33 PM

The only available information is based on surveys, which focus on divorce rates. I have not seen any studies that speak of what you were saying, ie. "certain psychological aspects or certain intricate parts of the relationship which cannot be measured or compared are proven to be different once you have sex at different points in the relationship." And I'm not the only one in this thread that has. My defense was around the only related studies I've seen.

As the person introducing previously unknown (by most of the people in the discussion) information into a discussion, the onus falls on you to provide the sources for that information so that others can see. That is obvious, since people often misremember or make up things, putting the onus on the person questioning the information provides an easy out for the person making up the fiction when the non-existent information cannot be found..



They're not not that hard to find if you know what you're looking for. Here's three. Feel free to find others.

Study done by New York’s Cornell University printed in the Journal of Marriage and Family, study and book wrote by Susan Krauss Whitbourne, Ph.D., she's a professor of Psychology at the University of Massachusetts Amherst, and a study done by Dean Busby of Brigham Young University's School of Family Life published in the Journal of Family Psychology. You do know how to take that information and find what you're looking for right?
 Hearton64
Joined: 12/18/2012
Msg: 93
Putting out too soon????
Posted: 2/14/2013 2:49:48 AM
First of all,in this study,we are talking about a man who teaches at
BRIGHAM YOUNG UNIVERSITY.



It is owned and operated by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), and is the largest religious university and third-largest private university in the U.S.


Hahaha.....You mean the same church that at one point was founded by Joseph Smith Jr who supported polygamy?

So of course it's "study" and findings are completely religiously scewed and based in the thinking that Sex before marriage is a "sin"! So I can't take that study seriously as I am Atheist.


The longer sex was delayed, the more participants in the study reported better quality of sex, communication, relationship satisfaction and perceived relationship stability. Waiting until marriage to have sex had the strongest correlations with positive outcomes.


No agenda there!



Busby cautioned against concluding that premarital sex necessarily leads to a bad marriage, however.

"Just because someone has sex early in a relationship doesn't mean the marriage is doomed," he said. "We're not saying that."


In effect that is what he's trying to say with his study and also,being that his perspective is scewed by his religious affiliations,his outcome will be too.


Why would rushing into intimacy impede marital happiness? According to study co-author Dean M. Busby, people who quickly become intimate may end up marrying even if they're incompatible because they become "entangled" in a relationship that becomes difficult to end.



Give me a break! That's a personal opinion,not a fact.He doesn't give individuals credit for having the power of choice as though they are victims of "entangled" relationships and powerless to end them as though they are somehow as brainwashed by sex as he is by religion.

NEXT useless "study".



The law of chastity is a moral code defined by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). According to the church, chastity means abstinence from sexual relations before marriage, and complete fidelity to one's spouse during marriage. As part of the law of chastity, the church teaches its members not only to abstain from adultery and fornication, but also to refrain from masturbation and to avoid sexually inappropriate thoughts. The law of chastity is taught to church members of all ages, being introduced simply to young children, and especially emphasized to adolescents.


Taught? LOL...you mean brainwashed.

Religion is a farce and it's teachings on sex are about shaming,guilt tripping and scaring people into obeying rules they can't even follow themselves.

Case in point.POLYGAMY.Twisting the "rules" to suit a man's desire to have sex with more than ONE woman in monogamy.
 gofurguy
Joined: 11/1/2011
Msg: 94
Putting out too soon????
Posted: 2/14/2013 5:00:42 AM
i simply need to know if the lady has been around the block, i would never have sex with someone until i know i am the only one at the time and no ones damaged the woman i care for
 roger144
Joined: 3/4/2008
Msg: 95
view profile
History
Putting out too soon????
Posted: 2/14/2013 8:09:51 AM
I have less respect for a woman that uses the term "puts out" then I would a woman I had sex with on a first date.
 Arlo_Troutman
Joined: 1/7/2013
Msg: 96
Putting out too soon????
Posted: 2/14/2013 8:13:19 AM


It is owned and operated by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), and is the largest religious university and third-largest private university in the U.S.


(hearton64) Hahaha.....You mean the same church that at one point was founded by Joseph Smith Jr who supported polygamy?


That'd be the one. So?

Just because YOU may not like the source, doesn't mean it's not a credible, reliable, source.
 Hearton64
Joined: 12/18/2012
Msg: 97
Putting out too soon????
Posted: 2/14/2013 10:41:21 AM

Just because YOU may not like the source, doesn't mean it's not a credible, reliable, source.


It's completely BIASED is my point,not that I like it or not.Actually I just laugh at it and it's entire premise.
 TheFuryan
Joined: 1/29/2013
Msg: 98
Putting out too soon????
Posted: 2/14/2013 11:16:36 AM
First of all,in this study,we are talking about a man who teaches at
BRIGHAM YOUNG UNIVERSITY.




It is owned and operated by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), and is the largest religious university and third-largest private university in the U.S.


Hahaha.....You mean the same church that at one point was founded by Joseph Smith Jr who supported polygamy?

So of course it's "study" and findings are completely religiously scewed and based in the thinking that Sex before marriage is a "sin"! So I can't take that study seriously as I am Atheist.



The longer sex was delayed, the more participants in the study reported better quality of sex, communication, relationship satisfaction and perceived relationship stability. Waiting until marriage to have sex had the strongest correlations with positive outcomes.


No agenda there!




Busby cautioned against concluding that premarital sex necessarily leads to a bad marriage, however.

"Just because someone has sex early in a relationship doesn't mean the marriage is doomed," he said. "We're not saying that."


In effect that is what he's trying to say with his study and also,being that his perspective is scewed by his religious affiliations,his outcome will be too.



Why would rushing into intimacy impede marital happiness? According to study co-author Dean M. Busby, people who quickly become intimate may end up marrying even if they're incompatible because they become "entangled" in a relationship that becomes difficult to end.



Give me a break! That's a personal opinion,not a fact.He doesn't give individuals credit for having the power of choice as though they are victims of "entangled" relationships and powerless to end them as though they are somehow as brainwashed by sex as he is by religion.

NEXT useless "study".




The law of chastity is a moral code defined by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). According to the church, chastity means abstinence from sexual relations before marriage, and complete fidelity to one's spouse during marriage. As part of the law of chastity, the church teaches its members not only to abstain from adultery and fornication, but also to refrain from masturbation and to avoid sexually inappropriate thoughts. The law of chastity is taught to church members of all ages, being introduced simply to young children, and especially emphasized to adolescents.


Taught? LOL...you mean brainwashed.

Religion is a farce and it's teachings on sex are about shaming,guilt tripping and scaring people into obeying rules they can't even follow themselves.

Case in point.POLYGAMY.Twisting the "rules" to suit a man's desire to have sex with more than ONE woman in monogamy.



I actually think that your statements are not only foolish but reflective of a narrow-minded view in general. Your rebuttal offers no new way of looking at how intimacy can impact the quality and longevity of a relationship and/or marriage. You are discrediting the source and findings based on your personal views and feeling about religion in general. Never mind the fact that the other studies show the same consistency as the BYU study.
 Hearton64
Joined: 12/18/2012
Msg: 99
Putting out too soon????
Posted: 2/14/2013 12:29:28 PM
The introduction of sex early on also results in people paying less attention to other important factors that would ultimately improve the relationship such as understanding, commitment, and emotional intimacy. Does that mean that every relationship or marriage where couples wait to have sex will last forever? Absolutely not, but the couples that waited to have sex and developed a better foundation getting to know and understand each other, are more equipped to handle things such as "character issues" or "money".


OMG! I can't handle your character issues or money.....I'm consumed with you sexually!

What's a "better foundation" and by whose standards and morality are we talking about here?
And why can't you "get to know" eachother while you are having sex?

Also,couples who get married in part just so they can have sex, because they don't believe in premarital sex, commit younger and sooner out of sheer horniness! Those of us who have sex before we develop LTR's aren't jumping into marriages so we aren't "sinning" and find we aren't compatible on multiple levels.AND....while having sex,getting to know and understand eachother despite what you and those studies think.

And you and I both know,the people who advocate "waiting" are conservative and religious and that was my main point.

I did happen to notice one of your interests is "god" too.

Thankfully,free thinkers have CHOICE.


I actually think that your statements are not only foolish but reflective of a narrow-minded view in general.


That's ripe coming from someone with your mentality.
 TheFuryan
Joined: 1/29/2013
Msg: 100
Putting out too soon????
Posted: 2/14/2013 1:17:05 PM

And you and I both know,the people who advocate "waiting" are conservative and religious and that was my main point.


Once again you show a narrow-minded way of looking at things. You say people who advocate "waiting" are conservative and religious. What about the people who are not conservative and not religious? How about people who are spiritual but not religious? What about people who are conservative but Atheist? You fail to consider all the people you've excluded that do believe in waiting" and don't fall under the conservative and religious tag. I understood the point you were making but I wanted you to see how closed-minded that view is. You don't seem to care so that's fine.
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