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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Has Immigrants Affected the UK as much as it has in the US?[ CLOSE      Home login  
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 OutofControlMan
Joined: 12/22/2011
Msg: 74
Has Immigrants Affected the UK as much as it has in the US?Page 4 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
vlad I'm surprised. you seem to argue that you and your white (r) lighter brethren have no more right to be in the UK than the later, 'darker' arrivals, simply because your forebears were there earlier.. based on your logic..the Angles, Celts and Saxons were not the "original" occupants of what is now the UK but Johnny-Come-Lately's, therefore their progeny have no inherent right to occupy that land?


or does the logic only apply when it can be used to support your argument, that what we call 'aboriginals' in N.America have no inherent right, but that your bloodlines in the UK do ?

anyhow the events of 10,000 + years ago don't interest me greatly
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 75
Has Immigrants Affected the UK as much as it has in the US?
Posted: 2/5/2013 6:42:10 PM
@match



It conveniently ignores an essential point: It is only because illegal aliens have flooded the market for unskilled and semi-skilled labor that wages for that labor are so low.


Duuuh!, and why do suppose this happened?
Do you think that these mean & vicious illegal migrants that came across the border; were able to simply arm-twist these poor & unsuspecting business owners to forcibly fire or dismiss their "legitimate" employees and hire them instead for no apparent reason? Are you that naive?

Its obvious that the business communities made it clear and put out a concerted out-call for these migrants to come in (while the authorities turned a blind eye to it all), and salivating at reaping the massive benefits in savings (no more benefit packages, sick leave; bonuses; paid holidays; worker's comp, etc) while exploiting these individuals who would NOT otherwise have come here if this opportunity did not exist!!!


If illegal aliens were no longer artificially depressing wages, they would rise to whatever level it took to supply the demand with American workers--who at one time did all those jobs.


Yet another one of your massively inane statements!
It was the aim & intent of the business communities (that have encouraged & facilitated the flood of illegals) to artificially keep wages low in order to maintain or augment their profit margins. It obviously does not profit any illegal alien (unless he/she is a TOTAL moron) to work for low (substandard) wages indefinitely, does it?????



.....American workers--who at one time did all those jobs.


What joke-book did you get this ^ from???
which "americans" are you talking about, that did these jobs; and if so, for how long did they stay at it?
Maybe you are talking about the share-croppers during the "reconstruction" era of South following the civil war; or maybe during the great depression when huge numbers lost their jobs and were scrounging around for work. The only pple who subjected themselves to this type of work were the "off the boat" immigrants (legal or not) who had not other options. Most Americans working in rural areas either owned their own land or employed others. Mechanization ended much of the tedious & mundane chores of repetition, and what was left was relegated only to those who had no other venues; ie illegals. The notion that there were no illegals in pre-war America is another urban myth!



Whatever that added to the cost of food, housing, and other goods and services would be a fraction of what would be saved...


You think so???

The average Jo-Blow would have a coronary at the supermarket when he'd see that an apple, pear or peach now costs $10; and an ear of corn costs $ 15. But I'm sure he wouldn't mind at all and would embrace it whole-heartily especially when he sees a sign posted over the fruits & produce aisle that says something like::

"THIS FINE FRUIT & PRODUCE WAS PROUDLY PICKED AND HARVESTED BY TRUE AMERICANS WITH COLLEGES DEGREES WHO COULDN'T FIND JOBS IN THEIR CHOSEN PROFESSIONS BUT INSTEAD OPTED TO WORK THE LAND! WE ARE SURE YOU WILL FEEL AT EASE KNOWING THAT THESE FINE CITIZENS ARE BEING WELL PAID ; RECEIVING "UNION WAGES & BENEFITS" FOR THEIR HARD LABOR; THUS YOUR MONEY WILL BE WELL SPENT""

I'm sure this will go over well (sarcasm)with most citizens!!!!


by eliminating the enormous cost of providing public services of all sorts to illegal aliens. It costs California alone many billions each year just to teach their children in public schools.


And you honestly believe that the savings will be funneled back to the tax-payers?
If you do, then I'd like to sell you a bridge in Brooklyn! At the end of the cold-war we (the citizens) were supposed to get a "peace" dividend; instead the Feds gave us more debt!


Leftist propagandists would have us believe that "undocumented workers," to use their euphemistic Newspeak, are decent, honest unfortunates


Apparently it wasn't just those "evil" Leftists who believed this. GwB also did and professed it as such; even wanted to give them amnesty; even more than what the "evil" leftists ever wanted to do!

Interestingly enough, in the 8 years that Dumbya was POTUS (even with control of both houses) he did ABSOLUTELY nothing to reform immigration or inforce Federal laws on the books; yet its the "evil" liberal/leftists who are to blame (yeah, it does remind me of Goebbels when he alluded that there was always a communist or a Jew to blame for Germany's hardships).

But I'm sure that this had nothing to do with the OBSCENE profits that businesses were making from exploiting these 'murderous & dastardly' illegal immigrants, Naaah; not at all!!!!!

Match, I'm glad you didn't crawl back into the woodwork after the election, as your side lost out!
because you certainly are (and remain) one of the top entertaining characters in these forums!
 Soul Union
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 76
Has Immigrants Affected the UK as much as it has in the US?
Posted: 2/5/2013 7:57:18 PM

Match, I'm glad you didn't crawl back into the woodwork after the election, as your side lost out!
because you certainly are (and remain) one of the top entertaining characters in these forums! --- Yule liquor


Thanks, Yule.

I, too, think that matchlight is one of the top entertaining characters on this site, and one of the most intelligent I have read in years.

Here's to matchlight!


Peter
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 77
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History
Has Immigrants Affected the UK as much as it has in the US?
Posted: 2/5/2013 11:11:41 PM
#100

<div class='quote'>Yet another one of your massively inane statements!

The hell you say! If so, it's interesting that you don't question that it's true, or try to refute it.


<div class='quote'>It was the aim & intent of the business communities (that have encouraged & facilitated the flood of illegals) to artificially keep wages low in order to maintain or augment their profit margins.

It's completely normal for corporations to try to keep their labor costs as low as possible and their profits as high as possible. But you don't offer any evidence that they "encouraged & facilitated the flood of illegals," nor do you describe just how they supposedly did that. Private corporations don't decide whether to enforce federal immigration laws. That is the responsibility of the President of the U.S.


<div class='quote'>Are you that naive?

Well . . . maybe. But when confronted with your awe-inspiring knowledge and reasoning, which of us would not feel a little naive?


<div class='quote'>Do you think that these mean & vicious illegal migrants that came across the border; were able to simply arm-twist these poor & unsuspecting business owners to forcibly fire or dismiss their "legitimate" employees and hire them instead for no apparent reason?

No. But you changed the issue. I simply noted what the trite argument you were repeating conveniently ignores: That it is only because illegal aliens have flooded the market for unskilled and semi-skilled labor that wages for that labor are so low. What caused them to come here and do that is an interesting question, but one that's beside the point.


<div class='quote'>Its obvious that the business communities made it clear and put out a concerted out-call for these migrants to come in (while the authorities turned a blind eye to it all), and salivating at reaping the massive benefits in savings (no more benefit packages, sick leave; bonuses; paid holidays; worker's comp, etc) while exploiting these individuals who would NOT otherwise have come here if this opportunity did not exist!!!

If the Daily Worker were still around, it could have used you. You sure know how to paint out a greedy, rapacious capitalist--I can practically see him twirling his moustache diabolically, as he lights a big cigar, hoists a pretty blonde onto his lap, and pours another drink, guffawing all the time about fleecing the chumps. Comic book stuff, really. Maybe it is really you who is naive--most of us have known for a long time that businesses are always trying to lower their costs. Not surprising, since their sole reason for existence is to make a profit for their shareholders.


<div class='quote'>The only pple who subjected themselves to this type of work were the "off the boat" immigrants (legal or not) who had not other options.

If they were legal immigrants, they were Americans, or at least resident aliens intent on gaining U.S. citizenship.



<div class='quote'>and what was left was relegated only to those who had no other venues; ie illegals.

I doubt that. If you have any evidence for that assertion, you haven't offered it. The practice of letting a regulated number of aliens come here temporarily to pick crops started a long time ago. There was nothing illegal about their working in California or elsewhere. But widespread disregard of U.S. immigration laws by aliens is a phenomenon of the past thirty or forty years.


<div class='quote'>The notion that there were no illegals in pre-war America is another urban myth!

It may well be, but you are arguing against an imaginary claim. Neither I nor anyone here made it.


<div class='quote'>The average Jo-Blow would have a coronary at the supermarket when he'd see that an apple, pear or peach now costs $10; and an ear of corn costs $ 15.

Did you imagine those figures in the same pipe dream where you imagined the rest of your fanciful assertions?


<div class='quote'>And you honestly believe that the savings will be funneled back to the tax-payers?

The taxpayers of California and other states vote. It would be their votes that decided whether they would keep the money saved by reducing state and local taxes, or spend it on other public services.

#101
Thank you.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 78
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History
Has Immigrants Affected the UK as much as it has in the US?
Posted: 2/6/2013 7:30:43 AM
ah bladderski

not at all mate. the reason i post the link to kennewick man is because the (self) proclaimed
intellectualls on here constantly waffle about evil europeans wiping out 'native' americans
and how beastly said europeans were.
and the self same ones use science regularly to ridicule and beat down people of the christian
faith.
i merely reply that their beloved science has disproved the 'native' american waffle and in my
eyes anyway just shows that beastly 'native' americans done the exact same to others as what
the windbags bang on about europeans doing.
i agree 10,000 odd years ago is interesting only in as much as its a look at our past.
alas they way of the world has been conquest and taking what you want by whatever means. still
is dont you think?

now again the uk situation. i cannot talk for the public sector as i have never worked in it but i do
know that the public sector workers will not vote to change anything which will put their jobs at threat.
now as i have said before i am a decorator to trade, 4 year apprenticeship served. when i work on building
sites i join the Union of Construction, Allied Trades and Technicians. UCATT.

here are the UCATT rates of pay
Current pay rates (valid from 7th January 2013)
Per hour
Per week (39 hours)
Guaranteed minimum weekly earnings
Craft Rate £10.67
£416.13
Skill Rate 1 £10.170
£396.63
Skill Rate 2 £9.79
£381.81
Skill Rate 3 £9.16
£357.24
Skill Rate 4 £8.65
£337.35
General Operative £8.03
£313.17
Payments for the skilled rates 1-4 lie in between the craft and operative rate.
that covers my wages, national insurance, class 4 stamp, holiday pay and entitlements.
below is a govenrment job search for decorators in edinburgh. all jobs either meet national minimum wage or offer £10/11 per hour.
this is self employed. take 20% of the rate for tax, buy your class 4 stamp, no holiday entitlement and no job security.
https://jobsearch.direct.gov.uk/JobSearch/PowerSearch.aspx?tjt=decorator&where=edinburgh&rad=20&rad_units=miles&pp=25&sort=rv.dt.di&vw=b&re=134&setype=2

now add to the equation the east european lads who will work for £8 per hour, yep they earn more than back home but my wages go down while my bills go up.

Gangmasters
Current situation
Many building workers encounter daily exploitation from agencies and gangmasters. Denied industry rates of pay to refusing and even access to Personal Protective Equipment, workers engaged in agencies and gangmasters are often vulnerable.
UCATT has unearthed terrible exploitation on site and has brought the national media spotlight to the operations of exploitative agencies. A key case that UCATT uncovered involved workers on a public sector hospital site being paid £8.80 per week in the Midlands area.
https://www.ucatt.org.uk/page.php?id=14&subid=139

yep £8.80 PER WEEK. how the hell can anyone compete with that? of cour5se bosses are going to exploit migrant labour but i dont hear the windbags saying no to that exploitation. they just want to fill the country with cheap labour for political ends.
as i said before windbags and bosses BOTH exploiting cheap migrant labour for their own ends. still theres one thing that does make the windbags nervous as all the migrant labour coming in is virtually all white folk who bring their views from their homelands and it makes asians here slightly nervous. the impeccably windbag radio 5 live phone ins on migrants and immigration are brilliant as second and third generation asians complain about immigration leaving white bbc windbag whining like a whiney thing.
polish is now the uk's official second language.

the uk is a seething mass in the big towns and cities and i care not what anyone else says. thats how i see it. i live it. MY job and my mates jobs are affected not the uk windbag element.
and imagine most of eastern europe is either orthodox or catholic, gee whiz all this christianity eh?

30,000 Golden Dawn Supporters March in Athens Under Neo-Nazi Banners
http://leftunity.org/30000-golden-dawn-supporters-march-in-athens-under-neo-nazi-banners/
30,000 eh?
still you reap what you sow type thing eh?

oh the horror lol
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 79
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History
Has Immigrants Affected the UK as much as it has in the US?
Posted: 2/6/2013 9:50:18 AM
Whats golden dawn have to do with it?

its what happens when mainstream politicians stop looking at what is happening
to the citizens they are meant to represent.
its what happens when windbags care more about illegal immigrants and migrant
workers than they care about the citizens of the nations that said windbags leech from.
its what happens when unelected bodies in far of brussels and strasbourg pass
laws that disadvantage the citizens of nations.

the greeks can hate who they want as far as im concerned. what happens in greece
is for greek citizens to sort out and if the reds get crushed then so what? no tears will
be shed from me.

but do you not think for a party that is constantly linked to nazis that for 30,000
folk to go onto the street and protest under their banner is showing a seismic
shift in european thought? hardly a day passes without a story about beastly nazis, fascists,
racists, xenophobes etc etc being played out in the msm and yet thousands are flocking
to extremist flags.

why do you think that is?

it wont happen in the uk. folk here just take what ever they are given and accept it. i have
nothing but admiration for those political partys who put their nations citizens first.

but then i would eh? being every ism, ist and ophobe windbags care to brand me.

toodle pip

vvvvv

yep but that was then and this is now. let the turks try and take it if they
want. no skin of my nose
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 80
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History
Has Immigrants Affected the UK as much as it has in the US?
Posted: 2/6/2013 3:50:27 PM
Oh dear a hysterical reply. Where do I justify the treatment of those who used to be called native Americans before science proved they were not the original inhabitants of what is now America?

Catch a grip. If you do not like what science proves then too bad because I couldn't give a Donald duck what you think.

We're Europeans beastly to those who lived in what is now America? Yep. We're "native" Americans beastly to Kennewick man and those who inhabited what is now America don't know because sandbags can't see the woods for the trees.

What were Europeans running from when they went to the new world?

C'mon windbags let us know.

What happened happened. And Europeans never slaughtered "native" Americans. They fought those who had stole from someone else.

Please feel free to get upset and hate fill wee d anytime you please

Your fellow windbagger s love of science brought about my post

Get over it sweetie
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 81
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History
Has Immigrants Affected the UK as much as it has in the US?
Posted: 2/6/2013 4:06:35 PM
oh and as a ps to my post

does that mean that a bunch of prehistoric bones found in africa means that mankind
started there is a load of bollocks? or do prehistoric bones only count when it suits
windbags?

cmon gies an answer, because if youse dont accept kennewick man then shut up about
mankind starting in africa

you just make bigger divs of yourselves than youse usually do
 Soul Union
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 82
Has Immigrants Affected the UK as much as it has in the US?
Posted: 2/6/2013 4:18:13 PM
Oh BTW "sweetie" I only like woman sorry look elsewhere. ---jed456


Women, not woman. "I only like women."

I can see you have run out of anti-white rant.

As for the New World Order, most of the sheeple are still fast asleep, and that is precisely the way the brains behind the agenda want it. Just like the frog boiling in the pot, but not realising he's being boiled until it's too late. He was fast asleep.

Peter -
No Politically Correct Apologist, Sweetie
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 83
Has Immigrants Affected the UK as much as it has in the US?
Posted: 2/6/2013 10:28:40 PM
@Match


it's interesting that you don't question that it's true, or try to refute it.


Huh? WTF are you talking about!

Refute what? That illegal workers artificially lower wages? Are you completely off your rocker?
Have your ever stopped to think (in your senescent state of cogitation) that the presence of illegal workers actually keep wages (for unskilled laborers) right where they should be!!!!!

Do you not realize that legal laborers have the right to organize and bargain collectively! And do you really think that if these menial jobs were to somehow be shifted over to the hands of our legal populace that the wages for such services would NOT rise to ARTIFICIALLY HIGH levels!!! Would this not fly in the face of "free-market" forces?

THE PROOF is in the auto industry; where its known that there are workers getting in the range of $40/hr for doing chores as menial (or unskilled) as to screw on lug nuts on the assembly line!!!(and the cost gets built in on the MRSP(sticker-price) of the vehicle! And this just one example, or which there are many! So unless you think someone who picks cherries, potatoes or cabbage on a field should be getting $ 40/hrs; be glad there is some illegal alien out there keeping you from taking out a loan just to do your grocery shopping!!!!!!


But you don't offer any evidence that they "encouraged & facilitated the flood of illegals," nor do you describe just how they supposedly did that.


Have you ever heard of lobbying your congressman to either do or not do certain things; have you ever heard of the term "chamber of commerce" and which businesses in your community belong to it, and what they strive for? Or is this another revelation for you!


Private corporations don't decide whether to enforce federal immigration laws. That is the responsibility of the President of the U.S.


You just gave the term 'naivity' a whole new meaning!


I simply noted what the trite argument you were repeating conveniently ignores: That it is only because illegal aliens have flooded the market for unskilled and semi-skilled labor that wages for that labor are so low.


And again I ask you!
How much do you think a cherry, cabbage, tomato picker ought to be paid if the wages (which now is approx $5-10/hr) are {as you say} "artificially" low?

Do you prefer to hire legal workers who will NO DOUBT from a union that will surely raise the wages to ARTICIALLY HIGH levels in no time! Do you honestly believe in your twisted mind that legal working Americans (of whatever walk of life) are gonna work the fields for the same pay that illegals are now getting; and that this cost won't be passed along to the consumer? Secondly, who do think is gonna take over this menial chore if any of the legal workers ever go on strike?


It's completely normal for corporations to try to keep their labor costs as low as possible and their profits as high as possible.


THANK YOU for proving my point!
Just like my ex-landscaper once told me that it would have cost me about $ 500/month (instead of the $125) to up-keep my lawn & bushes if he were forced to hire unionized workers; thereby drive him out of business because the service would be COST prohibitive! Thus neither he (the business man) nor the worker would have any work at all!

And did you not know that there is a whole subset of illegals who bear bogus Social security numbers (documented illegals); that actually have taxes deducted from their W-2's that go directly back into the US treasury and NEVER get any of this money back (in the form of SS benefits; Medicare, etc)!!!!

Do you know how many Billions( yes, I said Billions) of this form of revenue that flows back into the system; that serves as a "windfall" for the rest of us legal workers so that the Feds do not have to raise our taxes even more that they have! Or is this just another thing (of many) that you are woe-fully ignorant of!!!!!!

Even Dumbya knew of this when he was in office and he knew better not to tinker with it!

Though I'm not for exploitation, but THANK GOD for the presence of many of these illegals who are there to willingly do these menial jobs at or below the minimum wages, to keep things that we take for granted reasonably priced!


But when confronted with your awe-inspiring knowledge and reasoning, which of us would not feel a little naive?


Thank you; and its all for your own edification & enlightenment (at no cost to you)! However, if I was a conservative or neo-con, I'd probably have to charge you for imparting all this knowledge onto you!


I doubt that. If you have any evidence for that assertion, you haven't offered it. The practice of letting a regulated number of aliens come here temporarily to pick crops started a long time ago. There was nothing illegal about their working in California or elsewhere.


What do you think resulted when these 'legally regulated aliens' demanded worker's rights and collective bargaining? If you know the answer to that then what do you think FACILITATED the "widespread disregard" of our immigration laws by these individuals; who quickly learned that work for them was readily available (that would not otherwise have been given to "legal" workers)!


It may well be, but you are arguing against an imaginary claim. Neither I nor anyone here made it.


You made it by inferring that there were once a slew of "Americans" doing these jobs, that are now being done by illegals; which is a notion that exists only in your mind and no where else!


Did you imagine those figures in the same pipe dream where you imagined the rest of your fanciful assertions?


Sure, then let farmers & agriculturalists hire legal workers and wait and see what happens when the unions get involved!


It would be their votes that decided whether they would keep the money saved by reducing state and local taxes, or spend it on other public services.


And who ya gonna vote for when the Feds raise your taxes (which they've managed not to do so far) because they are no longer getting the "windfall' revenues from the "documented" illegals! Or are you one of the 47% that DOES NOT pay taxes!

man, I dunno WTF you do for a living; but I hope (for your sake) that you display a whole lot more insight in your vocation than you do in these forums!
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 84
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History
Has Immigrants Affected the UK as much as it has in the US?
Posted: 2/7/2013 1:35:50 AM
OP, don't you mean, has immigration?

I find it hard to believe (and sad) that their are still so many nationalists spoiled haters who are so easily dooped into believing it's about the "immigrants" (shoot me now) and can't figure out the set up and where the real blame lies.

Hmmm, just for fun... california....wasn't that part of mexico? hmmm... wasn't the states native land that was to be shared and cared for? Hmmm... did the natives get it good? Hmmm... aren't nurses supposed to care for their fellow humans? These people have kids and families and health issues too. Would you deny them because they came from across an imaginary line? Or didn't have a card? Or the colour of their skin? Do you actually believe it has to come out of your tax pockets instead of the greedos fat pockets? Does it really have to cost that much?

Why do you want to go to england? You feel thwarted by your own country and there as well because they have raised the education bar because it's needed? Should YOU be allowed to stay under educated and deal with peoples health issues? Is communicating not important in the medical field? Are you arguing for your right to stay...under educated? Un bloodybelievable!

Do you think they want come to the u.s. to pick fruit and do work under the table, only to be harassed? Do they not deserve what you have? Because...why?

Maybe dole, monsanto and other company's trashed their crops or promised to buy their crops if they planted their way, but scrwed them over instead? Maybe because they can't afford to live in their own country anymore? Do you know how much california fruit is sent DOWN to mexico? Do you think they needed it there?

Do you know how many people go to mexico for dental treatments because it so cheap. How can that be? Do you shop at discount stores?

I can't believe this kind of animosity is seemingly more acceptable than helping our neighbors.

The immigration rules are ridiculously flawed so the people who need help and could help you are considered lazy when they can't afford to jump through the hoops and have to turn to illegal means to feed their FAMILIES.

Just because you are getting it now, don't blame those who get it worse. Blame the guilty greedos and yourselves for falling for the lies about lack.

The sense of entitlement of some is appalling...still.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 85
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History
Has Immigrants Affected the UK as much as it has in the US?
Posted: 2/7/2013 8:39:23 AM
why on earth would i refute sandy creek? i was not there and i know no one who was.
we had our own massacres here in scotland. glencoe when the macdonalds were slaughtered
by the campbells (never trust a campbell is still an expression used in scotland) we had
culloden in the 45 (where apparently an ancestor with my second name, which is an unusual
second name was transported to servitude in canada because he fought for the stuarts, the last
true royal family of the uk)

so massacres are not unknown. and as for bourbon? i live in scotland where we have an abundance of whisky. (the film the angels share is about whisky and the evaporation of whisky as its distilled is called the angels share)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_distilleries_in_Scotland

and please dont call me a windbag i couldnt live with the shame and my neighbours pointing at me in the street and local bairns throwing dead cats and such like at me. and anyway if i was a windbag i would have a nice cushy job and look down on working folk who in turn would laugh and ridicule me and not take my windbaggery seriously.

nippy sweetie lol

dame
i do not live in a vast country like canada or america. i live on a wee island. our population is just around or over the 60 million mark. we have an acute housing shortage, failing hospitals, dilapidated schools in fact our whole infrastructure is collapsing.

we have millions of unemployed, more than the massaged government figures that are put out. i have no problem with folk coming to work IF its a level playing field and we are all competing at a rate of pay that can be lived on. i cannot compete against an east european who shares a property with 5/6 or more of his mates. my bills go up missus, never down.

yule
im disappointed that you feel that exploiting workers is a good thing. i do realise that the way we lead our lives means that competetiveness is a factor but i also believe that all men should get a decent wage upon which to live on.
again i go back to my point that unions fought so the working man didnt have to work 12/14 hour shifts a day to just get a livable wage.

i dont know if any of you are familiar with a uk television programme called the boys from the blackstuff? its based in liverpool in the early 80's. the original show and the 5 offshoot programmes are online. only yossers story i find weak. georges story should be made compulsory viewing in schools.

in episode 1 of the offshoots called jobs for the boys chrissie is talking to malloy the boss and says
''i want to be a working man again , come home at night with dirt on me hands and not hide it from anybody''
(its around 43 mins into this on youtube) and that is all a lot of us ask. its not too much is it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd6-MIEaPco

a decent wage to live reasonably and look after our families. its what the migrant workers seek as well, im perfectly aware of that. but until uk workers are enjoying the fruits of their labour im afraid migrant workers can to use a scottish expression git tae donald duck.

and this just in lol what chance do we have eh?

A STUNNED jobseeker saw a vacancy on a government website — written only in POLISH.
The Jobcentre Plus advert was for a labourer to work for £6 per hour — 19p below the minimum wage for those 21 and over.
A woman told how it was spotted by her grandson.
The 64-year-old, of Dagenham, Essex, said: “He didn’t have a clue what it said. A job like that should be open to everyone, not just those who can speak Polish.”
The ad, for an employer in Docklands, East London, was yesterday removed by the Department for Work and Pensions, which said all posts must be in English and offer at least the baseline salary.
It comes days after figures from the 2011 National Census showed that Polish is now the mother tongue of 546,000 people in England and Wales.
The job was also posted on the CV-Library.co.uk, which has removed it.
A spokesman told the recruiter that ads can state that a candidate must speak fluent Polish — but must be written in English.
Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4782621/Govt-Jobcentre-Plus-advert-written-only-in-Polish-is-withdrawn.html#ixzz2KDEaP0Nm
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 86
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History
Has Immigrants Affected the UK as much as it has in the US?
Posted: 2/7/2013 11:12:09 AM
#118

california....wasn't that part of mexico?


Yes, and much of France was once part of England. What of it? After Mexico lost its war with the U.S., it was inevitable that a couple years later it would lose its colony of Alta California.


wasn't the states native land that was to be shared and cared for?


I do not know what that sentence means. Does it have something to do with "company's" or being "dooped?"


Would you deny them because they came from across an imaginary line? Or didn't have a card?


Of course I would. Neither the United States nor any other nation has the least obligation to provide public services to aliens who are illegally in its territory. What you are really claiming, while trying to hide it an appeal to emotion about nurses and kids and caring for fellow humans, is that the United States has no right to defend its territory as a sovereign nation. Unless you're just down on the U.S., like leftists on these forums usually are, you must believe your own country has no such right either.


Or the colour of their skin?


It's ironic someone defending illegal immigration would bring racial bias into the discussion. Apparently you don't care that the invasion of illegal aliens into the U.S. has most directly hurt blacks, who used to do many of the low-paying jobs aliens now do.


Are you arguing for your right to stay...under educated?


You might want to be more careful about questioning other posters' education. Your own is on display here.


The immigration rules are ridiculously flawed so the people who need help and could help you are considered lazy when they can't afford to jump through the hoops and have to turn to illegal means to feed their FAMILIES.


The authority of the U.S. Congress to regulate immigration has been beyond question from the start, and it has always made laws to do that. You don't like that fact, and you think fifteen million or so aliens, mostly Mexicans, had the right to violate those U.S. laws. So you try to defend this wholesale contempt for federal laws by dismissing them as mere "rules" which you claim are "ridiculously flawed," although I am sure you know very little about them. But you show you have no shortage of gall by defending the violation of another nation's laws. Having done that, you still have enough gall left to say--ironically--that "the sense of entitlement of some is appalling." And once again, you try to hide what you are really calling for with various overwrought appeals to emotion.
 StrangeDreams
Joined: 1/30/2013
Msg: 87
Has Immigrants Affected the UK as much as it has in the US?
Posted: 2/7/2013 11:54:36 AM

im disappointed that you feel that exploiting workers is a good thing. i do realise that the way we lead our lives means that competetiveness is a factor but i also believe that all men should get a decent wage upon which to live on.
again i go back to my point that unions fought so the working man didnt have to work 12/14 hour shifts a day to just get a livable wage.
If a man wants a decent wage to live on he should acquire the skills necessary to obtain decent wages, Unions for the most part are evil, when something so dark , so sinister so evil that it cannot be contained in hell it manifest it self on earth as a union.

Look , I get when I hear stuff like "Dont they deserve a wage that they can live on? Have a house with a white picket fence, 2 kids and a dog? Have a right to health benefits for him/herself and their children?"

Short answer, No. If a person isn't willing to work hard they should have nothing, Why should an uneducated/unskilled person be granted a chance to earn more than a person with a higher education/skills? Why should the rest of the world have to pay huge amounts for merchandise because union joe is making $40 an hour to put on lug nuts, which drives the price up on american cars and why some folks are buying foreign, Kill American sales and service. That is what the unions are going to end up doing. You can't leverage a huge price without quality. A Dodge ram is not worth $45-$50K or what ever it costs nowadays when I can buy a Toyota for half.

You think the teachers unions is doing the teachers any favors, they are the most underpaid group out there but Joe the Autoworker earns more than your sons teacher, is that fair? Labour Unions are the worst, the Electrical,Plumbers,Carpenters etc should ban together and kick the shit of the union leaders and then go into the market and let the market dictate their wages, they would find they probably will earn more because these " skilled" labourers are in great demand.
 StrangeDreams
Joined: 1/30/2013
Msg: 88
Has Immigrants Affected the UK as much as it has in the US?
Posted: 2/7/2013 12:33:03 PM

Without Unions you would go back to industrial revolotion days or like china. no safety, child labour.
Gee , I thought it was the labour laws that prevented child labour and safety issues? damn it was the Unions? God Bless the unions , praise Gawdddd for the Unions hallelujah.

Yeah okay want to try that one again?
 BlokeInSydney
Joined: 5/7/2012
Msg: 89
Has Immigrants Affected the UK as much as it has in the US?
Posted: 2/7/2013 1:52:51 PM

Gee , I thought it was the labour laws that prevented child labour and safety issues? damn it was the Unions? God Bless the unions , praise Gawdddd for the Unions hallelujah.

The only reason those laws exist in the western world is because of the unions and workplace reformers.

Go to the third world to see how people struggle to live where the free market is unshackled, where there is no social responsibility accepted by corporations.
 StrangeDreams
Joined: 1/30/2013
Msg: 90
Has Immigrants Affected the UK as much as it has in the US?
Posted: 2/7/2013 2:25:01 PM
Unions had their place in the beginning of the industrial revolution but all good things must come to the end, they are now outdated and a burden on society , you liberals think the unions are on your side fighting for the average citizen, what a bunch of suckers, No wonder the Mob loved unions.


You want me to go to a third world country where the free market is unshackled, I love for you to name which third world country has unshackled free markets?
 _babblefish
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 91
Has Immigrants Affected the UK as much as it has in the US?
Posted: 2/7/2013 3:04:29 PM

Has Immigrants Affected the UK as much as it has in the US?


immigration has affected all 1st world countries, as stated in previous posts, i've met many and their English is
much better than yours as well as less narrow thinking. .


In fact, there was a strong movement in the US after the war of independence (late 1700's) to replace English with German as the primary language. The fore-fathers were so disgusted with the Brits that they didn't even want to speak the language anymore They knew that German was a more intricate and elaborate language but also more complex to learn. English won out just by 1 vote!


^ dewd, do your homework, i suggest with a linguist, it's dependant on your native language as to how
it can be easier to learn, ie; Scandinavians find it less troublesome to learn English than German
 Soul Union
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 92
Has Immigrants Affected the UK as much as it has in the US?
Posted: 2/7/2013 4:15:27 PM
^ dewd, do your homework, i suggest with a linguist, it's dependant on your native language as to how
it can be easier to learn, ie; Scandinavians find it less troublesome to learn English than German --- babblefish



I read on the front page of the Daily Express today in the supermarket while waiting in the queue, giant letters, making it clear for even the dim-witted amongst us:

"FOUR MILLION IMMIGRANTS IN BRITAIN REFUSE TO LEARN ENGLISH."

I guess they've got it wrong.

- Peter
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 93
Has Immigrants Affected the UK as much as it has in the US?
Posted: 2/7/2013 4:27:41 PM

I read on the front page of the Daily Express today in the supermarket while waiting in the queue, giant letters, making it clear for even the dim-witted amongst us:


"FOUR MILLION IMMIGRANTS IN BRITAIN REFUSE TO LEARN ENGLISH."

I guess they've got it wrong.
Yes because the Daily Mail would never pick polarizing topic and just put some unverifiable statement for a headline to sell newspapers, no that would never happen.

Hook Line and Sinker.
 Soul Union
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 94
Has Immigrants Affected the UK as much as it has in the US?
Posted: 2/7/2013 5:29:30 PM
Allow me to provide a few facts for the viewers.

A Pew study in 2011 found that Muslims are more ‘phobic’ of non-Muslims than non-Muslims are ‘Islamophobic’ of Muslims.

Forty per cent of Indonesian Muslims say they would use violence against those blaspheming Islam.

A 2009 Gallup survey could not find a single UK Muslim who approved of homosexuality.

Twenty-five per cent of UK mosques have extremist literature calling for the beheading of lapsed Muslims.

Almost 80 percent (3 out of every 4) of US mosques preach anti-West extremism.

Practising Muslims recite anti-Semitic and anti-Christian rhetoric at least 17 times a day, and over 5,000 times a year.

A poll of 27 countries found that Western Muslims remain faithful to countries of origin (France 80%, UK 82%, and Germany 71%).

More than 95% of all suicide bombing attacks conducted worldwide are carried out by Muslims.

The religion of peace?

Let us not allow the facts to get in the way of a nice, comforting, politically correct 'polarising' theory. We mustn't polarise, must we? That would never do.

How the mighty are laughing at us from behind the curtains of their empires, observing the seething masses crawling about like ants, suffering at the hands of our enemies, while they foment the increasing conflict with their control mechanisms, like 'racism.' We are merely pawns in their game, a game which is coming to a head.

- Peter
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." George Orwell
 LennyPane
Joined: 2/2/2011
Msg: 95
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History
Has Immigrants Affected the UK as much as it has in the US?
Posted: 2/7/2013 5:42:36 PM
^^ How about muslims wanting to build a mosque right by ground zero where the twin towers were brought down by muslims. It's bullshit. Whoops, not supposed to say that. Gotta be politically correct and fear being labeled a... wait for it, racist!
 StrangeDreams
Joined: 1/30/2013
Msg: 96
Has Immigrants Affected the UK as much as it has in the US?
Posted: 2/7/2013 6:05:10 PM
You know Soul Union It doesn't take a blind man to see the hatred you have of Muslim
perhaps a little facts for you

Gallop polls? please... spare me I can find a gallop poll that surveyed men jerking off after midnight produces more more vitamin C than orange juice, doesn't mean Im going to believe it.

Sunni and Shiites are different, most extremists are from the Sunni side the side that makes the news for the wrong reason,you know Al Qaeda the radical Sunni Muslim movement that is involved with global terror and one of their famous or shall I say Infamous followers
Hassan-i Sabbah , a Sunni radical back in the 11th century that created a secret order of killers used to kill other Muslims ( Shiites) which is where the term " assassin" comes from .

90% of the Muslim world is Shiite and doesn't ascribe the radical Sunni movement of global terror( not all Sunnis are extremist) , but that is what you're focusing on, much like the KKK calling themselves Christians and distorting the bible for their own twisted view

Now before you call me a political correct or some left wing nut, I'm not, I'm a capitalist loving right wing, dont care for big government, religion etc.

So when you say 95% of the suicide bombers are carried out by Muslim, you need to know the difference in the Islam religion, education isn't a bad thing.
 Blah_User_Name
Joined: 8/27/2011
Msg: 97
Has Immigrants Affected the UK as much as it has in the US?
Posted: 2/7/2013 6:12:22 PM
I'm curious about some of these statements but I'm not sure what they are telling me, as they are, if anything.

A Pew study in 2011 found that Muslims are more ‘phobic’ of non-Muslims than non-Muslims are ‘Islamophobic’ of Muslims.Obviously in such a poll, it's impossible that they studied all Muslims ans all non-Muslims, because I know they didn't come and chat to me, so can you provide more information about the control group that this study was based on?
How many people did they study?
Which countries were they from?
Are their life experiences comparable because of course that will affect view?
Or where they from one small geographical area?
Were these Muslims and non-Muslims living in American? Or spread across the World?

Forty per cent of Indonesian Muslims say they would use violence against those blaspheming Islam.Forty percent of nothing, is nothing. So 40% as a figure without an understanding of the total isn't very informative.
How many Indonesian Muslims are there and how many did they speak to in order to extrapolate this percentage from?

A 2009 Gallup survey could not find a single UK Muslim who approved of homosexuality.That will be because it's in direct conflict with the Qur'an. How many fundamentalist Christians approve of homosexuality?

Twenty-five per cent of UK mosques have extremist literature calling for the beheading of lapsed Muslims.How many mosques are in the UK? And by extremist literature, in my opinion that could be the Qur'an! How many UK churches have extremist literature more commonly referred to as the Bible?

Almost 80 percent (3 out of every 4) of US mosques preach anti-West extremismThat will be because Western culture is in direct conflict with their religious belief. You don't really expect people who for generations have lived their whole lives following their religious manual, are going to suddenly abandon their core beliefs to you? If you moved to a new country do you leave your core belief system at the airport gates as you clear customs?

Practicing Muslims recite anti-Semitic and anti-Christian rhetoric at least 17 times a day, and over 5,000 times a year. Muslims are called to prayer several times a day. This isn't news. Any area which has a mosque will hear the call for prayer echoed through the streets for several minutes before hand. You point with this statement is?

A poll of 27 countries found that Western Muslims remain faithful to countries of origin (France 80%, UK 82%, and Germany 71%).News flash for you - Any individual that moves countries has a level of loyalty to their home country. Italians living in the UK, Canada, US all still refer to Italy as home, even into the second and third generations of a new country. The same is true for most individuals.

More than 95% of all suicide bombing attacks conducted worldwide are carried out by Muslims.Because this has proven to be effective. Terrorists use the most effective means of terror. Widespread fear on the potential of what might happen. The IRA used bombs too, as that was the most effective way they had. Strictly speaking, you could accredit that form of terror to one religion too.

The religion of peace?I know this is referred to as the religion of peace but really, despite all the preaching of most religions for acceptance and peace, I can't think of one single religion where the true followers have consistently acted peacefully can you ? - Oh wait, Hare Krishna monks. I can't think of an instance where they have acted in violence but it's a new-ish religion compared to many.

Let us not allow the facts to get in the way of a nice, comforting, politically correct 'polarising' theory. Oh no, we mustn't polarise.Right back at ya.
 OMG!WTF!
Joined: 12/3/2007
Msg: 98
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Has Immigrants Affected the UK as much as it has in the US?
Posted: 2/7/2013 6:52:53 PM
Here's a good one from the non extremists....the Islamic Sharia Council of Great Britain publishes their fatwas for everybody to see just how crazy Islam and their 85 sharia courts have become in GB. I really like this question and the following ruling...


Question: what is the ruling regarding a couple where the wife had suffered abuse in childhood and due to that she refuses to respond to her husbands sexual needs. The husband himself has recently been effected by some bad thoughts relating to the abuse. He has several kids from her. How long can the husband put up with that and for how long can he stay with her?


Here's part of the answer from the religion of peace...


The angles' curse will befall every woman who is rebellious and disobedient; this does not excludes those who are too slow and reluctant to respond to their husbands. Marriage in Islam is intended to protect the chastity of men and women alike, therefore it is the woman's duty to respond to her husband's requests for conjugal relations. She should not give silly excuses and try to avoid it.


So, silly women, quite blaming emotional nonsense and put out for your men or Allah will be pissed. Seriously....how does anyone have even a shred of respect for this or any other religion?


My QUESTION: Is the UK having the same problem there, and if so-What is your Governement trying to do about it-If anything?


In Canada the government scrapped any and all religiously affiliated "arbitration", courts, tribunals and other such nonsense. No jewish courts, no catholic/christian courts, no sharia courts. Seems like something GB should consider.
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