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 AUTHOR
 Keeper_of_Secrets
Joined: 5/16/2012
Msg: 125
Is Jesus the son of God Page 5 of 19    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19)
humans can create life now in a test tube..

now??? we have been doing this since before you where even a twinkle in your fathers eyes.

Fly to other planets...

really now, again we have been doing this since before you where born.

make renewable energy...

seriously??? this has been happening for thousands of years. There are examples of renewable energy sources scribed onto the walls of pyramids in Egypt.

If you'd like me to elaborate I can.

You are merely a young man of 23, what possible new information do you possess that could possibly pop the bubbles of Christians that has not been discussed by others in the past.

Your comment of "being of sound mind" is a tactic and ploy used that again is older than you.
What new info do you have? or are you going to merely reiterate the same old same old that was spoken of by the generations before you.

Is it just Christianity that you have a disdain for; or is it towards all forms of religion and belief structures?
 purrfectmeow
Joined: 2/8/2013
Msg: 126
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/12/2013 11:47:39 AM
What any of us believe through our personal freedoms of choice,
should not ever be placed under a microscope.
Yet Christianity always is, and more so that any other religion.

I personally believe that Christ died for my sins, but I dont go shoving that down anyone's throat.
If someone is genuinely interested I do share my brand of cola (so to speak).
With that being said, I do not believe all of the bible available to us today, is as accurate as originally intended.
The books of the Apocrypha have been excluded as texts not inspired my God, but are of man.
Who are biblical scholars to decide that for us?

All I know is the holy spirit is with me, and that's proof enough to me.

Anyone else can believe anything else they want.
Im not going to judge people by what they choose to believe.
 sporty16
Joined: 9/17/2012
Msg: 128
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/12/2013 12:14:59 PM
Hi Rathlinlighthouse , message 132 You have quoted Solomon's Royal Line from King David. You have made some obvious elementary errors since you don't understand the scripture. Jaconiah received a curse of God that took the throne away from all of his descendents. Jeremiah 22:30 reads, Thus says the Lord , write you this childless : a man that shall not prosper in his days; for no man of his seed shall prosper. sitting upon the throne of David , and ruling anymore in Judah. None of the seven sons of Jeconiah could have been king because of the curse of God. If Jesus had been the son of Joseph , He would have been cursed and therefore could never have been the Messiah.
 sporty16
Joined: 9/17/2012
Msg: 129
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/12/2013 12:33:54 PM
Nathan and Solomon were both the sons of King David. Nathan was the older brother of Solomon , but when Daivd died , the younger Solomon took the throne and became the Royal Line , but Nathan was the Legal Line. Nathan's Line ran on through the ages and ultimately produced the Virgin Mary , while Solomon's Line ran down through the centuries and produced Joseph , the foster father of Jesus. Solomon's Line was under a curse and could not produce the Messiah by fatherhood from Joseph. Matthew is careful to inform us that Joseph was not the father of Jesus , but that he was the husband of Mary to whom was born Jesus. Therefore God the Father is the Father of His Son Jesus and that makes Jesus the Son of the Father by the Power of the Holy Ghost.
 59thShadeofGrey
Joined: 9/25/2012
Msg: 130
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/12/2013 12:39:27 PM

Therefore God the Father is the Father of His Son Jesus and that makes Jesus the Son of the Father by the Power of the Holy Ghost.


Therefore Jesus cannot be the Messiah prophesied in the OT, because the Messiah is to be fully human with a human father. He is also to be a great teacher and leader that brings the tribes of Israel together to vanquish their foes - not this Savior/Redeemer fraud that Paul made up out of the popular 1st century Hellenistic mystery cults...

Just sayin'....
 justlookingvt
Joined: 5/8/2010
Msg: 132
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/12/2013 1:10:06 PM


humans can create life now in a test tube..


Not quite. Getting pretty darn close though but, so far, life in a lab has never been created from inanimate matter. That's about to change very soon. :-)
 muliganstew
Joined: 9/25/2010
Msg: 133
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/12/2013 1:36:51 PM
Not that he's not the son of God but that their is only one God. Christians believe Jesus IS God. I've read both the Koran and Bible. There are many interpretations, including Jesus making a clear distinction between himself and his Father.
 sporty16
Joined: 9/17/2012
Msg: 134
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/12/2013 1:41:16 PM
Luke 3:23 Now Jesus began His ministry at about 30 years of age , being ( as was supposed ) the son of Joseph, the son of Heli........) There is no confusion here. Heli is the father of Mary !!! It was only a false supposition that Jesus was the son of Joseph , the son of Heli... Just do some more reading before you make a statement, nearly everyone will make gross errors in reading the Bible, you really have to be diligent and wide awake..or errors in understanding will happen all the time..
 sporty16
Joined: 9/17/2012
Msg: 135
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/12/2013 1:46:36 PM
I'd just like to add that it's IMPOSSIBLE to produce life from dead matter... Now go do some more science reading and you will see why...It will NEVER happen !
 59thShadeofGrey
Joined: 9/25/2012
Msg: 136
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/12/2013 1:51:58 PM

Really............ what is your source for that? I am most interested in the "fully human" part.


The source is the OT.

You can start here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah

"In Jewish eschatology, the term came to refer to a future Jewish King from the Davidic line, who will be "anointed" with holy anointing oil and rule the Jewish people during the Messianic Age. The Messiah is not considered to be God or a Son of God. Belief in the eventual coming of a future messiah is a fundamental part of Judaism, and is one of Maimonides' 13 Principles of Faith."

Everywhere that the OT describes the Messiah it is consistent that he will be a man - not a god or a son of a god. That is a perversion of Judaism by Paul, for the sole purpose of creating a new religion out of thin air - and pretending to have OT backing.

Between christians and jews - which group do you think has a better handle on what the OT means and how to recognize the Messiah? This is why jews reject Jesus as the Messiah - he simply does not fit the bill. Absolutely nowhere in the OT does it refer to the Messiah as a Redeemer or embue him with any divinity.

It's the Greatest Fraud Ever Perpetrated.....
 justlookingvt
Joined: 5/8/2010
Msg: 137
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/12/2013 2:19:40 PM




I'd just like to add that it's IMPOSSIBLE to produce life from dead matter... Now go do some more science reading and you will see why...It will NEVER happen !


I'm very pleased you believe it is impossible. It will very likely happen within the next five years. Actually, George M. Church, who has already synthesized DNA and ribosomes in his lab, is very confident that it will happen in less time than that.

That day those that believe it is impossible, will come crashing head on with their unfounded beliefs. May the god fallacy vanish in peace.

Reason will eventually prevail. :-) and it will be soon too :-)

 melodyof_k
Joined: 5/2/2012
Msg: 138
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/12/2013 2:29:05 PM
@ DaddyMac

well...we agree on this post.
what you said is correct

I have studied this topic of Messiah very intensly and thorougly (oh I cant spell..)
I read and translate Hebrew to English.
have read books written by Christians and Jews.

everything that Daddymac has stated above is correct.

I think that the reason Christianity is looked at more than other religions is because of their insistence that they are THE ONLY correct religion. and that THE only way to be "saved" is through Jesus.
what are we saved from?
there isnt a concept of being saved in the OT. because we arent all being damned to go to hell and burn which is the fear tactic taught by many (not all) fundamental Christians.

If Mary was pregnant when Joseph met her...
does that mean she was pregnant by God or the Holy Spirit?
could she not have become naturally impregnated by another man?

I used to be a Christian,...until I studied, and not just read...the Torah. Until I learned Hebrew and saw the mistranslations used to make it appear that Jesus fit the Torahs view of the Messiah. you can twist many things to make them appear to fit.
 59thShadeofGrey
Joined: 9/25/2012
Msg: 140
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/12/2013 2:39:19 PM

well...we agree on this post.


Help! The sky is falling!!
;-)

I used to be a christian as well. My father was a military man and a disciplinarian, and though he never taught me to question authority - I learned that at around 4 years old ;-D - he did teach me not to believe everything I heard or read. I have tried to honor that by questioning everything. I believe it has served me well.
 59thShadeofGrey
Joined: 9/25/2012
Msg: 141
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/12/2013 2:41:53 PM

Reason will eventually prevail. :-) and it will be soon too :-)


Gotta admit bro, that does sound a little apocalyptic....
;-D
 justlookingvt
Joined: 5/8/2010
Msg: 142
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/12/2013 3:14:55 PM


Gotta admit bro, that does sound a little apocalyptic....;-D


Reason provides good apocalypses :-)

Reason is great. If jesus had been reasonable he would have died to save me from my bills instead of from my sins. I guess that's why he is supposed to come back, to get it right. :-) I hope he comes back soon because the interest is killing me .. :-)
 melodyof_k
Joined: 5/2/2012
Msg: 144
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/12/2013 4:02:52 PM
Jeffrey,
what about the Chassidic Jews.
arent they following Torah to the best they can...
while they fit what it says into todays world and not go around destroying others?

Do you believe to follow the Torah literally in this day and age?
now here is two people, Paul K and myself asking this..
and Paul K and I believe differently.
 melodyof_k
Joined: 5/2/2012
Msg: 145
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/12/2013 4:10:39 PM
I am most interested in the "fully human" part...........


I am going to find scripture in the OT to about this.
It never suggests in the Torah that Messiah will be anything other than a man...
a fully human man.
so why would anyone even come to think that he will be part of a trinity..
or fully God and fully human? it just does not say that anywhere in the Torah.

there are so many stories of a savior being born of a virgin
being the son of God,
being partly God
etc etc.
Christianity was not the only religion to teach these stories.

did Jesus even say he was God?
he said I and my Father are one...
many of us believe in us all being as one...
as one with God..
but that is not being God,..or being God in the flesh.
were does Jesus say he is God?
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 146
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/12/2013 6:17:10 PM
@DaddyMac


"In Jewish eschatology, the term came to refer to a future Jewish King from the Davidic line, who will be "anointed" with holy anointing oil and rule the Jewish people during the Messianic Age.


Which is exactly what would have occured if the Jews had accepted Jesus as the Messiah


Belief in the eventual coming of a future messiah is a fundamental part of Judaism, and is one of Maimonides' 13 Principles of Faith."


Except that in this day and age, it is impossible to know the lineage of any would be messiah, as well as to use any of the other OT criteria in order for him to be 'vetted' out. The Lubovitchers thought their leader was the Messiah, only to be left disappointed to see that he did not rise from the dead as foretold. In the aftermath, some admitted that in these times that it is a near impossibility to discerning who the messiah is. They have made no further claims since the the passing of Rabbi Schneerson.


Everywhere that the OT describes the Messiah it is consistent that he will be a man - not a god or a son of a god.


Close, but NO CIGAR for you today! Read Isaiah, Chapter 54; verse 5; where it says:

"For he who has become your husband is your Maker
his name is the Lord of hosts
Your redeemer is the Holy One of Israel
Called God of all the Earth"

Now lets define our terms:

husband = Christ, (as we are the figurative brides)
Husband =Maker (creator)
Lord of hosts=messiah
Redeemer=savior
Holy one of Israel=God

when you are finished reading this you can then read Isaiah 53.


That is a perversion of Judaism by Paul, for the sole purpose of creating a new religion out of thin air


What would be Saul's motives for creating a new religion? (which is an absurd allegation to say the least); he of all had the least to gain and all to lose. Saul was formally trained and educated in the Rabbinical tradition and knew the teachings of the OT forwards & backwards far better than you ever will!


Between christians and jews - which group do you think has a better handle on what the OT means and how to recognize the Messiah?


There were no christians at the time of Jesus; only Jews who were indigenous to that area. Those contemporary Jews who chose to accept him as the Messiah were far fewer than those who didn't. The reasons he wasn't accepted by most is because they would have had too much to lose such as money; prestige; seniority; leadership positions, etc. And not because he "didn't fit the bill".


Absolutely nowhere in the OT does it refer to the Messiah as a Redeemer or embue him with any divinity.


see above response.


The source is the OT.


No, the source is your own delusional & twisted interpretation of the OT


It's the Greatest Fraud Ever Perpetrated....


That is just what Hitler said of Christianity; he musta read the same OT copy that you have!
 melodyof_k
Joined: 5/2/2012
Msg: 148
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/12/2013 8:08:27 PM
While traveling through a forest, a person noticed a circle marked on
a tree with an arrow shot perfectly into the center. A few yards away
he noticed several more targets, each with arrows in the center.
Later, he met the talented archer and he asked him, "How did you
become such an expert that you always get your arrows into the center
of the bull's-eye?" "It's not difficult," responded the
archer, "First I shoot the arrow and then I draw the circle."


this is the method that Christianity used to "point" to Jesus in the OT.
Jesus is NO part of the Torah (OT)

so it talks about the annointed one (of which there were many annointed kings) coming into Jerusalem on a donkey...
ok....lets circle this...shoot the arrow....and say oh..look...It say Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey...so he is the donkey rider of the Torah....the Torah points to Jesus. No, it does not.

the suffering servant of Isaiah 53 is Israel...who is called the servant of God in many places.

was Jesus comely and despised and rejected? i think he was not ugly,.he had a great following who loved him.

he was led like a lamb to the slaughter and opened not his mouth....did Jesus quietly go to his death?

let us look at this draw the arrow and then draw the circle to make it seem as if it fits.
a handsome man on POF states that he would like a woman with long auburn hair.
green eyes,
a masters degree in sociology
age 35-45
lives in colorodo.
loves cats

ok...rich girl sees this man and will do what she can to prove she is his woman.
she dies her hair,
gets green contacts
either lies about a mastors or has one in a differnt field.
takes her time to familiarize herself with as much sociology as she can. enough to hold quite an intelligent conv.
maybe lies about age and can pass of as 45
or since she is wealthy she gets a face lift.
she relocates to a nice home in colorodo.
she adopts a few cats.

ok...she has to be the one he has been searching for. she fits the bill.


there...she convinces him she is the One.
all his friends are convinced.
but the ones who knew her before know that she is a fake and does not really fit who he wants.
 RussArtLover
Joined: 5/13/2010
Msg: 149
view profile
History
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/12/2013 9:24:24 PM
I grew up Christian too. Remember the one about the soldiers that were armed with pots and pans than ran screaming through the ranks of the enemy? The poor **stards fled in terror killing each other as they fled. I think this was supposed to illustrate Grace but I'm not sure how. Er kinda maybe. I can imagine these guys standing around before the launch think "holy sht"
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 150
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/12/2013 9:40:33 PM

I don't see it that way.....
Ok, but some others seem to.. hence my comment.

Right? So he's saying
I'm not entirely sure what he's saying, which is why I asked him the question.

So it's worse for "Christians" to try and cram their belief down someone's throat because they're doing it out of "love"? Girllllll, if you were standing in front of me I would have to ask you to repeat that because I would be sure I didn't hear you right! What?? lol
I have no idea what you're on about here, but it doesn't seem you're looking for clarification on anything I've said, so I'll just leave you to whatever it is you're assuming.

I grew up Christian too.
Same here. Interesting how many of us in here are saying that.
 sporty16
Joined: 9/17/2012
Msg: 152
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/12/2013 11:02:14 PM
T0 everyone ...especially daddymac324.. Read message # 105 Jesus IS the MESSIAH.. The Jewish O.T. prophesied it about 20 times.... He came to His own ( Israel of the flesh ) but Israel rejected Him, denied Him and crucified Him. He ROSE from the dead in 30 A.D. on Easter sunday and commanded His Apostles and disciples to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom to the whole world.. This was Jesus , THE MESSIAH . The veil in the Jerusalem temple was torn in half and the Holy of Holies was exposed... The Son of God has now gone to the Gentiles of the world who are the ISRAEL of the SPIRIT....which means to the Gentiles who believe on Him. Notice the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem was utterly destroyed by Titus in 70 A.D. and is no more. God has finished with the LAW as a way to be saved , because NO MAN could ever obey it ! God now LIVES in every believer in Christ , the Messiah. He lives in the Temple of the BODY in everyone who believes in the death , burial and ressurrection of Jesus , the Son of God.. That's why Jesus said " Destroy this temple and I will lift it up in 3 days ( He was talking of the temple of His BODY, not the stone building in Jerusalem.) The Holy Law of God cannot save anyone who breaks the LAW. The Law CONDEMS a man. All men have broken God's Holy Law and stand CONDEMED in front of the HOLY GOD. That means that Jesus , the Messiah had atoned for man's sins and man is now free from condemnation forever more to those that believe. We , the GENTILES of the world are the ISRAEL OF THE SPIRIT !!! It is by the SPIRIT of FAITH in CHRIST that we are saved from our sins not by doing the works of the LAW. The LAW accuses us of being sinners... The N.T. is the fulfilment of the O.T. ALL O.T. prophesies have to be fulfilled in the N.T and that's what happened ! Otherwise , where else where they to be fulfilled ? They are all fulfilled in Christ , the Son of God , THE MESSIAH. Thanks be to God... AMAZING GRACE !
 Keeper_of_Secrets
Joined: 5/16/2012
Msg: 153
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/12/2013 11:29:10 PM
If you do not like what Christians are trying to ram down your throat, why do you not stand up to them.

There is a saying out there that "The same lesson will return to you again and again, until you learn the lesson from it.. " By permitting Christians or anyone for that matter to continuously ram themselves down your throat, you are teaching them that their actions are okay and that they can continue to do so because you do not have the guts to get up off your knees... You can complain all you want on line about their actions, but until you actually do something about it in real life, you remain their victim. You have Free Will, use it.


vvvvvv
Great example of stuff trying to be rammed down peoples throats.


Msg: 167
Listen to God , not the DEVIL. This is not a game. Don't be deceived anymore. GOD loves you so much that HE died in your place. and saved your life through JESUS CHRIST the Son of God , THE MESSIAH . It is all TRUE . Read all about it in the BIBLE
 sporty16
Joined: 9/17/2012
Msg: 154
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/12/2013 11:38:48 PM
Listen to God , not the DEVIL. This is not a game. Don't be deceived anymore. GOD loves you so much that HE died in your place. and saved your life through JESUS CHRIST the Son of God , THE MESSIAH . It is all TRUE . Read all about it in the Word of God , the Holy Bible. God does not lie. The devil is a liar.
 Keeper_of_Secrets
Joined: 5/16/2012
Msg: 155
Is Jesus the son of God
Posted: 2/13/2013 12:09:04 AM
nice edit to your post...

Listen to God , not the DEVIL. This is not a game. Don't be deceived anymore. GOD loves you so much that HE died in your place. and saved your life through JESUS CHRIST the Son of God , THE MESSIAH . It is all TRUE . Read all about it in the Word of God , the Holy Bible. God does not lie. The devil is a liar.


- The Bible nowhere explains Satan's origins.
- The Bible nowhere explains why such a powerful force of evil is allowed to exist.
- The Bible is almost silent about devils in the Old Testament.

These shortcomings are by no means insignificant. A fundamental question that must be answered is if God is a supreme, all-powerful God, why does He allow a being as powerful as Satan to co-exist with Him?

Why would He allow Satan to lead mankind towards chaos, if His own intention was to offer salvation to all mankind? If Satan is a fallen angel, why was he allowed to continue living, and rather not destroyed as were later people who deliberately rebelled against the Almighty God? Why should God allow a rebellious Satan to have a free hand over His creation for thousands of years, and then destroy him at the last time, as asserted by many Christian believers?

These are some of the aspects that must be capable of reasonable explanation if the Bible is the Word of God, and if we are prepared to consider exactly what the Bible does say about the devil and his angels.

Why is Satan considered to be the liar and the bad guy, when even in the garden of Eden, Satan did not lie to Adam and Eve but actually helped them gain knowledge, which pissed off God. But yet how many times does it say in the bible how much God hates fools? Why is obtaining knowledge a bad punishable crime in the eyes of God.
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