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Joined: 12/30/2012
Msg: 26
Torn need advicePage 2 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)

it is the childs needs that will come first

Exactly .. look at it logically: The custodial parent already lives in a different state, has re-married, and the child in question now has two siblings and is living in a stable family unit. The move in question is absent malice and is related to a job which could have a direct bearing on the financial welfare of the child's family.

On the other side... if may affect dad's visitation. I don't see this as a tough call for a judge
Joined: 8/29/2012
Msg: 27
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/15/2013 11:13:37 AM

In fact when she moved to PA from NJ she needed my consent.

Why did you allow this the first time? It's 200 miles away? Really, How often do you see your son now?

You will most likely lose if you go to court. You let her move once before. You will be questioned on why you let it happen the first time.

You might get better quality of time now if they move. School vacations, summer vacations.

The money you spend on court could be used for plane fare. Court will cost you thousands....
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 28
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Torn need advice
Posted: 2/15/2013 11:13:39 AM
What do you mean that you ex is now being a beast? Did she think she had you wrapped around her finger, after all you let them move away before? How often do you see your son now, what's your relationship with him and just how nasty is your ex being? It's great that his step-father is good to him, as far as you know, but it's pretty telling that both he and your ex thought nothing of moving your son so far away, again. I don't think either of them give that much of a crap about how this effects you or your son, and on top of it they are feeding him the Disneyland bit to make sure he's on their side.

I'd ask for custody so there plans are no longer interrupted. After all they are just as capable of coming to see him if he lives with you. When you have a child you have to think of these things, when you remarry you have to think about these things and when you think it's okay to just move off with a child whose father isn't going to be close by, you have to think about how selfish you are and just what's most important to you. At this point, only going by what you've posted, your ex-wife sounds like she could care less as long as she has this new husband. It's wrong to separate children from their parents, unless their parents are harmful to them, we don't know how good a parent either of you are but you are stating that she's pretty selfish and uncaring.

I would be very suspicious of two people who feed my kids dreams of Disneyland over being around their father, that's pretty sick. But I don't know how far away he is now and I don't know how often you see him now. If you are a good father, I see no reason why you shouldn't have custody and then he can visit them and go to Disneyland during the Summer. After all you have never been the reason your son had to leave you, they are, why should you do all the sacrificing? Am I'm not trying to be a bytch, I truly don't see why her needs trump yours. What's best for your son?
Joined: 12/30/2012
Msg: 29
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/15/2013 11:29:19 AM

I'd ask for custody

That's a great idea.. get tough. Fight it out.

I can see a lot of judges yanking a child out of his home, away from his custodial mother and his step father, away from his siblings, and out of a stable environment to go live with his single dad. Yeah.. that's how it works.
Joined: 4/19/2012
Msg: 30
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Torn need advice
Posted: 2/15/2013 12:14:51 PM
Wow, what a nightmare..This is actually my nightmare, but as far as I know, my ex isn't dating, so I don't have to worry about my daughter being moved far away from me.
But what would I do if there is a as you said great step dad would have better opportunities further away?
Do I prevent him to be able to provide a better life for his step daughter, my daughter?
Or do I stick to my guns, and say I want to see her more regularly, so NO I won't allow it?
I do not have an answer. I really don't.
As some other posters said, maybe you could move to Florida to be closer.
Joined: 7/4/2012
Msg: 31
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Torn need advice
Posted: 2/15/2013 12:24:47 PM
Right now my son lives in PA a 40 min drive from where I live in NJ. I see him every weekend right now and 1 day in the middle of the week to take him to his MMA class.
I am at work right now and when I can I will try to answer some good questions that a few of you have
to make the picture clearer. I want to thank all of you for responding to this with your advice and help.
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 32
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/15/2013 12:32:10 PM
People become uncooperative & irrational when it comes to deep-rooted emotions -- like their kids. She's got to put some things in perspective though.

- She's just not the only 100% legitimate parent. You're not a close uncle, step-dad, or "technically-biological-father" who you showed up in his life 1 year ago. You're just as much a true dad as she is a true mother. She needs to put that in perspective.

- There's a good reason you had to consent to her going to PA -- it's not some weird legal technicality that you did. She now takes this for granted and retroactively feels her moving to PA as a right, not a privilege. She's got to put it into perspective that it was a privilege you granted.

- She's not supposed to be able to move wherever, and having a new step-dad be a reason isn't reason enough. You're a compromising, understanding person -- which is why she's in PA. But going all the way down to FL? What if she was going to move to London or South Africa? Would that be cool? Where's the line-drawn in her mind? What's too far and what should be kosher if the roles were reversed for her? That type of talk can help put her in perspective. Because all she's thinking right now is it's HER son -- you're a good influence and her son's biological father... but WTF? Why can't I move where's it's best for US, which includes MY son? She needs to understand you're just not technically a baby daddy.

All in all, she'd need a better reason than a good opportunity for her new husband to take (also) YOUR son down to FL. There's a reason that law's there. You gave her an inch, now she expects to take a mile. I think in retrospect, when you were granting her to move to PA, letting her know that you're being cooperative but don't want to give her the wrong idea that you can move wherever. And again -- what would you (ex) do? Unless you have some sweet kick-arse job guaranteed down in those parts of FL, sorry!
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 33
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/15/2013 1:48:17 PM

Because of the way custody is structured she can't move him out of state without my consent.

I can see this getting very expensively ugly. If you tell her she's not allowed to move with the kid, I can see a court battle looming that is going to make lawyers very rich. She will try to get the current ruling overturned because of the circumstances and you will be painted as the bitter ex that's using the kid as a pawn to get revenge. Because money talks and money rules the world, the only thing the court will see is that ex's husband has the opportunity to make more money, therefore providing a better lifestyle for the kids by moving to Florida. So interfering with his ability to provide a better financial future for his family (his family includes your son) could get you in hot water when it comes to visitation.
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 34
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/15/2013 1:49:25 PM
soulsearcher012- You are a good dad who has valid concerns.
The key is going to be keeping things civil and staying level headed.
Contact your ex and let her know you understand this is an opportunity for them, but you love your son and need to work something out that's fair for everyone.
I have three kids and I know they get breaks. There is Christmas, spring break and summer break.
Since them moving to Florida means that she has your son the majority of the time, I think it's fair for you to get his breaks.
Start with that and go from there.
Also, work out a reasonable arrangement for phone calls and there's also skype and e-mail.
No matter what, hire an attorney and get everything in writing, there's too much at stake not to.
I hope this works out.
Joined: 1/1/2013
Msg: 35
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Torn need advice
Posted: 2/15/2013 1:51:41 PM
Great post!!!!
So good for your kid to see you get along in the same house and work things out!!
It is possible for people to do what is best for every one :)
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 36
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Torn need advice
Posted: 2/15/2013 3:17:07 PM
Sometimes you have to fight for what is right. If she was being as understanding as he is then this wouldn't be such a problem but according to OP, she's being a beast because she's not getting her way. If this is true, she's not the proper parent to have custody, being the mother does not automatically make one the best parent for the child to live with primarily. Now maybe OP isn't being honest, we don't know that, but I'm not at all for the mother getting to call the shots by virtue of gender and if she's being a beast I highly doubt she's acting in the best interest of the boy and worst, may be tainting the boys view of his father. Women should not have the right to do this just because the courts have been biased in this respect. This is about his child and his access to his child and he already does not spend nearly enough time with him. I am fully aware that the OP may not be telling us the truth and thus wouldn't have a chance in hell of gaining custody because he may not be more than a once every other week father, which is not fair to the child. I'm only going on him being just as deserving of custody on the fact that he has written that he needs his son close so they can be in a real relationship and that his ex is interfering in that because of her needs with her new husband.

I'm curious how the step-father feels about this. Has he thought much about what happens to his step-son's emotional needs if he moves him so far away from his father? Children aren't property, they don't just adjust, they are too often highly damaged by careless adults.
Joined: 3/23/2009
Msg: 37
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Torn need advice
Posted: 2/15/2013 4:45:26 PM
ok Beast this is what I would do.

I would tell her that it's time to go back to court.

You get to claim him in your income tax return every other year, odd or even, you pick or she picks.
Summer time he comes and stays with you until school time and you do not pay child support the summer you have him.


You go for full custody. ( I would)


You let him go, don't see him, pay child support, never claim your year tax, and in the end your begging for time to see him when and if she answers the phone after they move away.

Get your lawyer busy...
Just because he's moving for a new job, and he's married to what you had doesn't mean you should give your kid away!

I'd be p !$$$ed off!
Best of Luck,
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 38
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Torn need advice
Posted: 2/15/2013 5:00:38 PM
You know, you can dig your heels and the one who loses is your son.

You are in the golf industry, I'd think you'd do better in FL than PA. The situation that another poster described with your using the child support to see your son, or since this is an increase in income for them, they can put the kid on a plane too.

My daughter is 1100 miles away. I know it's different because she's in college but between facebook, cells and skype, except for sleeping in the house I pretty much feel like she is still here. I know you want to see your son but physical face time is not necessary to maintaining a good relationship.

Maybe you could try to reapproach them and say listen, we've had a good relationship I'm sure you can understand how shocked and upset it was to feel as if this decision that includes me was made without my input at all. Imagine how you would feel if I walked in tomorrow and told you I want to move to Seattle and I'm taking our son.

Something else you might not have considered is whether in this job market he can afford to turn down the promotion. If a company prefers people that are more flexible, he could be pigeon-holed in perpetuity or he could lost his job. They should not have dealt with the situation the way they did but you need to find a way to create a workable situation for everyone involved or again, the one who gets hurt is your son.

Reread how you all operated before the "but" in your original post. It's a shame to harm that situation even when it isn't your fault, it is still beneficial for you to be a positive part of finding the solution. A step-parent that you like and trust with your child as opposed to who she might wind up with if this situation were to break up the marriage or something? Sometimes when you win, you lose.
Joined: 7/31/2011
Msg: 39
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Torn need advice
Posted: 2/15/2013 5:15:11 PM
Packagedeal, I think a child going off to college after having been raised fulltime by you is different than an 8 year old boy who sees his father a couple times a week. Skype may work for you two but younger children need physical contact with their parents.
I'm surprised at the number of people saying he should let his son go. Would any of you have let your young child go? I know I wouldn't have.
Joined: 2/8/2009
Msg: 40
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Torn need advice
Posted: 2/15/2013 5:18:27 PM
Joined: 2/8/2009
Msg: 41
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Torn need advice
Posted: 2/15/2013 5:18:43 PM
Her immediate and certain response that you wouldn't "give them a problem BEFORE she even spoke" matches with her previous move from "to PA from NJ". Where is the indication that she doesn't feel that all child rearing insofar as you're involved could be emulated quickly and comletely by popping the toaster early and walking some chunks of bread around in cold milk? "Here's Daddy. Here he is kicking his boots in the muddy puddles. Here he is getting eaten by the dog." Her position is firm. I don't see that she believes that you have a valid position of any type.

The attitude that a father's contribution is neglectible and inferior has adherents. Lots see us as much less key in our children's upbringing than a good supply of kleenex.

Still, when I look back, it seems that when I was raised key, accidental and momentary events would never have been part of if I wasn't living around my dad. For example when I was about six my brothers were stuck overnight on a hiking expedition on a high snow pass with him. They had my sleeping bag along. It was the only one to stay dry and they all huddled in it. Even now I'm not completely certain that one experience didn't make them a little different and maybe more resilient. My elder bro runs a huge publishing company - and is still working close with my dad. That was passed on to him. That dynastic weirdness might never have happened if there wasn't real trust built through common experience.

I've had experiences, even awkward diffiucult ones, that taught me the meaning of care. Sure, not all want to learn that clinging to bramble after falling into an icy creek with your sis, but hey-- all the adults were eventually in the icey stream, or over a chute, and I crouched under a blanket with the girls from the other camp group. These are important things.

With my own kids its not that different. Moments in the stream, just casual ones that occur around stopping to get something to eat, or waiting to pick up people, have hidden gold troves. I don't know if it helps them but it means a great deal to me.

Your ex's new guy is genuine. Widowers, particularly young ones, are a different group from the rest of the dating public. But can't he rise in his career where he is? Did they have to be totalatarian scum, treat your relationship to your child as if it was an imaginary number?

I dunno. I'd probably let them go to Florida. Sometimes people do assess situations clearly and learn to adapt in a fair way. Maybe there will be something good come of this for all of the larger group. It doesn't seem like that is in the picture, but generally people who are regularly supportive make things work.

Its easy to get along well with relatives when they bend to your whim- --maybe that's why she's been so excellent with you. You've been marvelously adaptable; she'd like more Mr Marvel., and some cold toast to demonstrate how that works later if by some inconceiveable accident the kid wonders what happened to his dad. But I don't think she believes that will happen. And it might not. Even with set weeks in the summer holidays and time during spring break and such you will fade, not in the complete and definite sense but in the real way of contributing dynamically. You'll be irrelevant because the time to re-establish ends up being longer than the period around.
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 42
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Torn need advice
Posted: 2/15/2013 5:19:34 PM
Maybe? offer to take custody of your son for a year while they get settled, (she can have him on the holidays) then work out a year with them (minus holidays) then a year with you (minus holidays.) Your son will have 2 homes. Just make sure her new home is a steady home first, so he only has to bounce between 2 schools year by year. (use the school years)

It's only going to be tough if you believe that it's going to be tough. If she complains about the schooling, too bad, your son will probably love it.

If she won't go for it, tough shiat, he's your son and this is giving and getting a lot for all.
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 43
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Torn need advice
Posted: 2/15/2013 5:35:16 PM
I did say I recognize that my situation with a college student is different. But if you really want to get serious about what the OP is talking about, is it any different than our service people who are deployed away from their children? They write letters, e-mail, skype. Some of those people probably know their children better than countless parents in their children's home every day.

No one is saying let the child go and who gives a flip but not letting the kid go may not be the answer either. Several people pointed out ways that the situation could be worked around. If they are moving they should be financially obligated to facilitate visitation which since the promotion includes a raise they ought to look stupid griping about. Most schools have tons of three day weekends throughout the year when your son could come stay with you and most school districts would even let him take another day, yada, yada.

Think outside the box and whether there are ways that this situation might give you more real time with your son than you currently have.
Joined: 6/9/2009
Msg: 44
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/15/2013 6:51:28 PM
Do not allow her to move your son further away , it is that simple . There is no other choice . Perhaps she should give you full custody , then she can move any where she wants to . I know what the grinder feels like , I have been there . Don't let any one take your child away .
Joined: 6/9/2005
Msg: 45
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/15/2013 8:31:41 PM
I would talk to her about it..Be open and willing.. but you don't have to bend unless you want to.

I wouldn't be ok with her moving my son that far away.. but if you dno't agree with her and allow her to move.. you're probably going to lose the friendship.
Joined: 2/8/2013
Msg: 46
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/15/2013 9:00:24 PM
Hello Tom,
Maybe you can talk nicely with her and maybe she agree to give you your son to live with you here in Florida.
Best Regards.
Joined: 3/25/2011
Msg: 47
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/15/2013 9:03:27 PM
I read the first page and a few posts on the 2nd page, and the question I have wasn't answered.

How often do you see your son? If custody is 50/50 and you have always been just as involved in his care as his mom, then being taken away from you might feel like abandonment to him. Be very careful and get some help from someone impartial and an expert in child psychology when considering such a significant change.

If, however, you see your son significantly less--every other weekend and 1/weeknight, then you can consider your parenting as an important part of his life, but not an important part of his daily life. And that leaves room for flexibility in when you will see him b/c he is already accustomed to seeing you less.

Looking at it objectively is very difficult when you are so emotionally involved. But from a child's perspective, the day-to-day stuff is paramount and while a child loves a parent they see less frequently, they do not feel the absence of that parent in a way that leaves them feeling unsafe or insecure. A parent who visits on a regular basis will have a very strong relationship and the child will not experience their absence as abandonment.

If you decide to let your son move, remember that the arrangement can change again if he needs it to change. An 8 year old needs stability and maybe more time with mom if that's what he has been used to. Things could change a lot in a few years. When you and your ex talk about possibly changing the placement schedule this time, bring up the possibility that your son may want to move back to live with you in a few years--and make sure she is open to that possibility (and yes, get it in writing, for what it is worth).

But again, if you are the custodial parent about 50% of the time, be really careful about "letting him go." If you consider it, talk with him about it a LOT before a decision is made and if you think he'd feel abandoned, don't let him go, at least not without a fight (a legal battle--remember each of you will have his best interest at heart, even if you don't believe that of the ex. So don't let him know if there is a legal battle).

One other thing--having moved a lot as a kid and never having lived near extended family, I can honestly say that the experience was extremely valuable in helping me grow up and feel confident about myself. I have traveled and done a lot more than my cousins, most of whom never moved--not even to a different house--when under 18. New school, new friends--exciting (for me). Each of us experiences that type of change differently, so do not assume it would be a bad thing for him to have those experiences.

Good luck, whatever you decide.
Joined: 11/29/2012
Msg: 48
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/15/2013 9:39:22 PM
Look out for #1. That is the relationship between you and your son. Period.
Joined: 1/10/2009
Msg: 49
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/15/2013 9:50:39 PM
its going to be painful and hurtful the thought of your son moving way from you. someone has to sacrifice . if it is you definitely you will see less of him but once he is grown I am sure he will spend rest of life , time near a loving parent more . sometime life is not fair , take it as it comes and it will be easy instead of fighting it
Joined: 6/9/2009
Msg: 50
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/15/2013 9:58:01 PM
Obvious his ex isn't taking the father or the son into consideration, especially with a son who needs his father as much as he needs a mother . Looking at stats .prison's are full of young men who were only raised by a mother with no father figure . Took me 6 years in court to obtain custody of my son .Best thing I ever did . Never let any one take your children away from you . My ex tried to move out of state with my son and even though she was denying me visitation I just said no .Same thing you need to do .
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