Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  > Torn need advice      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 nikkisenko
Joined: 9/5/2011
Msg: 51
Torn need advicePage 3 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
Omg! Whatever you do, stick to your guns on this one! There is no way on the planet skype and occasional visits is the same as you being in your son's life consistently. I have been that kid. My relationship with my father was permanently damaged. I cannot, honestly, believe how many people are saying you should do this because of financial reasons. No amount of money will replace your presence. Let her be a **** about this. Her request is unreasonable and not at all in the best interest of the child. It will NEVER be in the best interest of a child to distance them from a caring and loving parent.
 jan1025
Joined: 3/23/2009
Msg: 52
view profile
History
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 3:06:15 AM
Mom says: ( I can just hear it now), but honey just think of the new friends you are going to meet!

Sons says: I like my friends here mom, and starts crying...

Mom says: You like Mickey mouse don't you? You like Harry potter don't you? Well, if we go there to live you will be able to see them, we will go to Disneyland/ world all the time, and you will be able to take all your new friends too!

Son: (phone rings), and it's dad (his real father, now known as the beast). Sons says Dad!!!! I will be able to go to Disneyland, but I will miss you!

OMG, please the little boy is being brainwashed away from his father.

I don't hear most 8 year old say "Disneyland", but they will say their favorite character movies... Like Peter Pan or say Pirate of the ...."Captain Jack Sparrow... "Disneyland" is a more of a grown-up word! Please!

It's all BS!

If you don't want to take this woman to court, etc. Then you better pack your bags and rent a U-haul truck! If you don't want to do any of these,then you deserve what you get!

Sometimes in life, when someone comes at you.... you got to fight, or lay down a take the beating. Most women will fight to the end (it's part of their DNA to protect their offspring), most men give up! That's why women get it all in the divorce if they have kids, because men don't fight back, they just lay down the BS and walk away thinking that is what they should do for the sake of not fighting! So most people will lay down and take it! Grow some balls, if you want to see your child more than once or twice, or less once he moves away, fight, fight, fight!

And I don't mean verbally fighting, because that is hostile abuse, I mean go for the throat, the legs, and the PURSE! lol sorry...

Your kid will respect you more for fighting to the end for him, trust me!

And for the "new dad" in his life, shame on him for even going along with this for the sake of a job! That's all BS too! He's living in a dream land with your ex. They both are, and now they want to run away to it! Whippy! Wow! watch us live happily ever in never, never land because the new dad can't find a local job!
Whatever...
Gawd, some people are just plain stupid!
 jan1025
Joined: 3/23/2009
Msg: 53
view profile
History
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 4:04:04 AM
Ooh yes, and Beast:

You got to know your ex is going to be madder than a hornet, because she has to face you fully armed. Meaning, if you stand face to face with her, she’s not going to like that at all.

She thinks that she has more rights than you do, because she carried your son in her womb. That’s how women are; it’s how the human being is constructed. It’s the maternal instincts of a woman to keep what grew in their stomach, etc.

So, with that said, you got to realize she is NOT going to be your friend, ever! Why? You are taking her chances away for a “better and new life” with her new man. She’s living in a dream world right now and she’s believing in it. Neither is she going to give her child up in the process. She’s got this whole picture in her head, she’s got her new dream and you are messing with it by not cooperating with her demands!

Neither one of these people are thinking of your personal relationship with your son. They don’t give a rats arse, they want what they want and they don’t care what you think at all. How I know this by the very word she called you “beast”. The minute you weren't caving in, she called you a name. It’s right there in your face, and you are still wondering what you should do?

If you hand him over and give them their dream then she will be nice to you, until she moves away and then you will forever have to answer to her and her new husband to see your son. They will have complete CONTROL, you have none!

Now think of the future, what happens if this man loses his job again, gets sick, or who knows what can happen, and they decide to move back? One never knows what will happen in the future... While her life plays out with your son in it, what about the future? Could you imagine, since everybody is dreaming here... that things don't work out like they think and they come back two, three, four, five, ten years later... think about the possible wastefulness of this whole plan. Think about the possible wasted years between you and your son.

Anything can happen in the future!
I think, I've said enough.
Sorry, good luck and follow your gut.
Jan
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 54
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 4:38:40 AM
"Give an inch, they'll take a mile".

During my little experince with child custody and the courts, I made sure (from day one) that my daughter wasn't going to leave my city(let alone province) without me. The ex "tried" something along the lines what the OP is going thru with his ex. Let's just say, she didn't get to "try" for very long. I think it had something to do with my personality, and my ex knowing that I wouldn't put up with this type of shiat from ANY adult let alone the mother of my child.

Your ex is an selfish idiot OP and should be ashamed of her ability as a parent. I don't give a phuck about the "reasoning" to better HER life, she's still a moronic "mother". Shiat like this makes me puke. The adults are suppose to be making the "sacrifices" not the children. You're doing your part, what the phuck is the ex doing?????
 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 55
view profile
History
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 6:01:49 AM
Op take what you wish from my observations on your situation and from my experience having been in either a separated or divorced state for 20 of 21 years raising my son with my ex-husband. And yes, I too felt the lure and pangs to be elsewhere for a job and relationship, but was always mindful that I signed an agreement stating that I wouldn't move beyond 50 kms from my city, in order to ensure my son's dad had 'reasonable' access.

You acquiesced on letting Mom move once and while it might have established a precedent on a possible move to Florida, what you had established was only that you were able to be 'reasonable'. You were driving what seemed as a very commutable drive of 40 minutes each way every weekend and once during the week to maintain that connection. Had she indicated that she wanted to move to another city in PA, that wasn't as readily as accessible to your place in NJ, it's unlikely I think that you would have agreed to it. So that is to me some of the context to address the 'why' you allowed it once argument.

Further, the type of access set-up you have with your ex, with Mom having the child during school nights and you having him on weekends and seeing him on one night during the week, is what a lot of people have even while living in the same city, so it's not an arrangement that is set up just for those with long drives...it's for those who think that it's best to have the least amount of disruption during the school week for the child.

Again, this dedication and regular access every few days that you have, with a full on access schedule on weekends can't be just tossed aside...simply because you possibly seemingly 'let him go' in the past. That move unlike this planned one, was based on you looking at the situation at the time and seeing that you could indeed be 'reasonable' there. That balanced approach should and will count---but there should be limits to how much further you should be expected to go.

As divorced/split parents, my ex and I were 'together' all the way through all the way up for our son. We were actually more 'together' than many of the married 'intact' families. We jointly involved ourselves in all the parent meetings, all the school productions and musical/band endeavors, all the sporting practices and tourneys. It was always clear we were 'there'...even on our off access days and weekends. People noticed outside of our family and always commented.

You state this:

I also don't want to ruin the chance for this guy to advance in his career and make a better life for his family


I suggest it comes down to a choice of which set of 'happy families' matter most. Is it:

1.)You with your ex and your child; or 2.) your wife with your child and her new husband. I know where I'd fall on this.

Dad needs to be there. Sure the new guy is great. But he can do the commute can't he?? He can understand all this better than an 8 year-old I'd think. It's his job therefore he can be the one to give up something. Really, why does your son have to be disrupted twice?

It's not reasonable IMO, to relegate your parental relationship with your son or his relationship with his dad to behind that of your wife and her somewhat new fledgling relationship with her new husband and his new job; either of which could tank btw.

Let the new husband shoulder this in the short term and put on your 'reasonable' hat again and look at long-term. Look at how you can be a part of making this decision into a positive thing for you all. If you're in golf, you likely would have opportunities there. Can you start scouting out opportunities for a move within 6 months or so?

I have an industry acquaintance that has divorced and remarried a man in Florida all within the last two or so years. She shares joint access of her 8 - 12 year old children with her ex. On those weekends when she doesn't have access, she goes to Florida. The children's lives are maintained and disruption is at a minimum for them. They live with Mom and Dad in a border city in Canada; she lives her new married life half in Florida and part of the time up here. She loves it---it works for them, and beyond that, 'all the adults involved', have made the children's lives a priority and stable, by being reasonable and shouldering all the travel around them.

----You don't get do-overs on this Op and it goes so very quickly. You don't want to miss all that, do you?

edited~
 Stubidooo
Joined: 12/30/2012
Msg: 56
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 6:23:28 AM

Never let any one take your children away from you

Good call... A custody fight (and that's what this will become) will cost thousands of dollars, will permanently drive a wedge between him and his ex, and may result in his son actually resenting him. The best part? He will most likely LOSE.

"While the relevant statutory enactments which are placed at issue in these cases vary widely from state to state and some states have no applicable statutes, the decisions are generally based on judicial recognition of the post-divorce new family unit, and stability and continuity of the child’s relationship with his primary custodian as the most important factor affecting the child’s welfare. These courts also recognize that the well-being of the child is fundamentally interrelated with the well-being of the custodial parent, and that parent is the best person to make decisions affecting the child and the new family group, such as where they will reside. The courts therefore accord those childrearing decisions deference, and hold that judicial intervention in that decision making process should be limited to only the most extreme circumstances."

Like in ALL such cases, TALK with your ex and settle this amicably.
 LiliMarleen
Joined: 5/24/2009
Msg: 57
view profile
History
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 6:30:16 AM
Hi OP. I thought about your problem half of the night (sometimes I can't sleep), so I will give you my thoughts.

I'm a lawyer, but not a family lawyer, and I would advise you to find one of those right away, just to make sure that you're protected.

First, you don't really HAVE to do anything right now, because the order that prevents her from moving your son is in place (I'm assuming that this custody/visitation agreement is signed by the court). So, she can't take him anywhere without your approval.

So, now only one of two things can happen, either you agree and they move, or you don't, and then they're stuck. Your ex would have to go to court then, to change the agreement. I'm thinking it would be pretty unlikely that a court would easily do that, given the age of your son, and the amount of time you've been spending with him. A slightly increased standard of living, I think, would not outweigh the value a court would place on a close father-son relationship. Besides, courts really don't like to overturn agreements between parties, let alone their own orders.

I think the burden would really be on her to show why this move is more important than your relationship with your son.

The other issue is that you're not really preventing HER from moving. You only don't want her to move your son. This would mean that you could offer to take physical custody, if she agrees, and then she can go wherever she wants. That way, SHE would have to choose between more money and her child.

Of course you could go for a full-blown custody battle to change custody, but I think your chances for success with that are much lower than simply asking a court to uphold the order not to move your child out of state, if she should try to change that.

Finally, don't let yourself be manipulated by the passive-agressive silent treatment she is pulling. Keep going to pick up your son as usual, and if she interferes with visitation in any way or starts badmouthing you to her son, do keep a record of those incidents, so you'll have something to show the judge, later.

On the other hand, it's not a bad idea to try to talk to her about all this and asking her how she envisions you would maintain a relationship with your son, rather than pushing any kind of court-ordered solution, though. Often neither party ends up with what they want that way.

Many posters here have made great suggestions about how this could be done, if she does move. And you say so far your relationship has been good. Maybe you can come up with a creative solution that would be agreeable to both parties.

While I do believe that maintaining close contact with your son is very important, I also know that a prolonged court battle carried out on the back of the child is very harmful to children, and while I do believe you should stand up for your rights, I would tread carefully.

I do wish you the best of luck with all this, and I hope you will keep us updated.

Sorry if this is disjointed, didn't get much sleep. Haha!
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 58
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 6:57:41 AM

And yes, I too felt the lure and pangs to be elsewhere for a job and relationship, but was always mindful that I signed an agreement stating that I wouldn't move beyond 50 kms from my city, in order to ensure my son's dad had 'reasonable' access.


An example of a "good" parent, despite being apart from the other half of the equation. I've always found sweetest to be one of those "good" ones, she just keeps getting better every time she types or states her opinion. Not very common amongst the human race.
 demux21
Joined: 1/7/2013
Msg: 59
view profile
History
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 7:14:07 AM
Agree with the stipulation that they provide 3 plane ticket per year.
 nubeginnings64
Joined: 4/8/2012
Msg: 60
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 7:23:32 AM
I was the one that remarried and moved with my new husband and 2 daughters (10/12) from NJ to Florida.

How we worked things out was simple and worked very well for us.

I waived his child support, he was to use that money, and come down to visit his kids every few months. He ended up coming down approx every 9 weeks for 5-7 days at a time. He stayed at my home for a few years (he was always welcome), and after he met his future wife, they stayed at a nearby motel.

This really did work for us. I have been divorced from him for 31 years. My children are close to their father, and respected my second husband. Hope this helps.


This is a great compromise & one he should float past his ex. Best for the kid & both parents. Unless the malice is on her part, I don't see no being her answer, especially in light of her husband moving up the corporate ladder & the supposed financial gain that comes with it.

I'm unsure of the legal eagle advice from Callmeken either. Maybe he just had a really really bad lawyer or 1st year law student. I don't think her income by proxy will hold water legally to a family court judge enough to alter the fathers parental & visitation rights.
 Zuglo65
Joined: 4/19/2012
Msg: 61
view profile
History
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 7:29:49 AM

I read the first page and a few posts on the 2nd page, and the question I have wasn't answered.

How often do you see your son?

See the answer to your question.

Right now my son lives in PA a 40 min drive from where I live in NJ. I see him every weekend right now and 1 day in the middle of the week to take him to his MMA class.
 moonchildMN
Joined: 9/28/2012
Msg: 62
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 7:49:28 AM

Sometimes in life, when someone comes at you.... you got to fight, or lay down a take the beating. Most women will fight to the end (it's part of their DNA to protect their offspring), most men give up! That's why women get it all in the divorce if they have kids, because men don't fight back, they just lay down the BS and walk away thinking that is what they should do for the sake of not fighting! So most people will lay down and take it! Grow some balls, if you want to see your child more than once or twice, or less once he moves away, fight, fight, fight!


Bravo!! Not to go off topic but if you don't fight this OP you will lose your son, your spirit and your soul. I've met so many men who have caved and have so many regrets now, it's very sad. Sure, you might not have much money left at the end but at least you tried and fought for you son. I'd try a neutral evaluator or a parenting expert since they are not as expensive as an attorney, find one that specializes in men's rights....they are out there.
 auntyemm
Joined: 12/22/2012
Msg: 63
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 7:54:04 AM
Fight til you cant fight no more.Then keep fighting.That is your son,you have every right to be with him
 John255317
Joined: 12/28/2012
Msg: 64
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 7:59:43 AM
OP, we only hear a little here but from what I hear, I would ask that your ex go to counseling if you both can not talk to each other. I also agree that the tables could be turned and she could be the one that visits every couple months. Her new husband sounds like a great guy, does the "great guy" ubderstand what he is asking to do here??? Sorry, skype isn't the solution if communicating and everyone involved doesn't figure this out. Your ex has to take responsibility and understand, even though obviously she could never have known this might happen. But that doesn't make it right. You are trying to do the right thing and I would assume part of it is so your son doesn't become angry with you because of what the ex may do, if even psychologically. Yes, kids adapt but do they??? And at what cost, how do you weigh this out?? For me, if I were in this situation, my son doesn't move further away. Yes, there are issues if this happens but hold on a second, there would be issues if he does move further. The ex is upset it sounds like now, I am sure that is human but being human is communicating and she is not it sounds. You two get along great but do you? I mean yes, this is a huge request but sounds like the "good relationship" between you two changes when serious issues come up. No, I would not allow the son to move further and I would ask her to change the custody and allow her and her new husband to move and sounds like you would do whatever you need to do to keep her very close and in touch with your son. Being sensitiive and understanding to the new husband is great but it doesn't have anything at all to do with your son. None!!
 soulsearcher012
Joined: 7/4/2012
Msg: 65
view profile
History
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 8:43:52 AM
First I want to thank all of you for your support, opinions, and suggestions
Now that the ex has calmed down we finally talked when I went to pick my son up after work.
She really didn't think this would bother me since I had no problem when she moved to PA.
I asked her to put herself in my shoes what would she do ?
I suggested we talk to our son together and explain to him as best we can the pros and cons of
him moving and see how he feels. so when I bring him home Sunday afternoon we will
explain as best we can to him and see if he can understand the good points and the
downside.

I learned a few things too like if he takes this promotion she wont have to work.
which she made the focal point of our conversation. I was nice but told
her that her work status was not the issue the issue is how this will affect our son
and how it will affect my rights as his father to see him and be a positive part
of his life .

I really tried to get her to understand that my being against this was not to sabotage
her plans It's not I want to be able to be a positive force in my sons life.
and trying to do that via Skype is not going to happen.
so after we see how our son really feels we will take feelings
into consideration and go from there.

We will try to come to an agreed upon arrangement if we can't then
I will take the necessary steps to protect my relationship
with my beautiful child.
 jan1025
Joined: 3/23/2009
Msg: 66
view profile
History
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 8:48:03 AM
OMG! Are you kidding me, now you are going to drag an eight year old into an adult situation/conversation! Really?

Don't you both realize that you will tear him apart putting him in the middle of his father and mother, and step father!

For gods sake, he's a child with a child mind!
What is the matter with you both? You both are nuts! Go get help!
You have a head full of rocks!
I give up!
Whatever!
 nubeginnings64
Joined: 4/8/2012
Msg: 67
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 8:49:47 AM
its going to be painful and hurtful the thought of your son moving way from you. someone has to sacrifice . if it is you definitely you will see less of him but once he is grown I am sure he will spend rest of life , time near a loving parent more . sometime life is not fair , take it as it comes and it will be easy instead of fighting it


This is BS. The OP already sacrificed by not opposing her to move with his son from NJ to PA & kept up visitations, although it's a good 40 min drive away. Mom can use your advice since her actions so far, not talking to or asking the OP 1st & plying the kid with Disney & such to make his dad seem like a douche bag if he said no, are more in the best interest of her & the new husband.
 mermaid140
Joined: 8/29/2012
Msg: 68
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 8:53:22 AM

I suggested we talk to our son together and explain to him as best we can the pros and cons of
him moving and see how he feels. so when I bring him home Sunday afternoon we will
explain as best we can to him and see if he can understand the good points and the
downside


I don't agree with asking your son. He is a child and doesn't deserve to choose sides. The decision needs to be made between the parents only. Your son will want everything to remain the same as it is now. He shouldn't be in the middle. He will adjust to the decision that is made by you and your ex-wife.

If you let her move then you should speak to your son about when you will see him.

Please, don't put your son in the middle. He is still a baby and you two are the adults and this an adult matter.
 nubeginnings64
Joined: 4/8/2012
Msg: 69
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 8:58:16 AM

OMG! Are you kidding me, now you are going to drag an eight year old into an adult situation/conversation! Really?

Don't you both realize that you will tear him apart putting him in the middle of his father and mother, and step father!

For gods sake, he's a child with a child mind!
What is the matter with you both? You both are nuts! Go get help!
You have a head full of rocks!
I give up!
Whatever!


Sorry to say but I agree with this.
 Hamilton12345
Joined: 3/29/2012
Msg: 70
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 9:02:21 AM

Please, don't put your son in the middle. He is still a baby and you two are the adults and this an adult matter


The childis 8 years old, not a baby. Why should they not talk to him and take his feelings into consideration. It is not just about the parents, it is about the child!

No where did anyone say he had to chose sides, what was said was that they wanted his input in the decision making process. Too often we make decisions that have a direct effect on our children's lives without ever consulting them because "they are babies and not capable of making decisions." Guess what? They are more than capable and often come up with better solutions than the parents do.
 mermaid140
Joined: 8/29/2012
Msg: 71
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 9:07:05 AM

The childis 8 years old, not a baby. Why should they not talk to him and take his feelings into consideration. It is not just about the parents, it is about the child!


I have an 8 year old and yes she is still a baby. By asking you are making the child choose. Never put the child in the middle. It is divorce 101. Adults make the decisions not the child.
 jan1025
Joined: 3/23/2009
Msg: 72
view profile
History
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 9:07:58 AM
ooh great answer! He just reached the age of understanding let's put his new found discovery into action and have him choose to make the whole decision for all three of us!, * as they count out his lunch money for school tomorrow*

Good one!
 Hamilton12345
Joined: 3/29/2012
Msg: 73
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 9:18:01 AM
Really, really poor reading comprehension here, what the OP said was.


I suggested we talk to our son together and explain to him as best we can the pros and cons of
him moving and see how he feels.


He did not say they were asking him to make the decision, they are asking him how he feels about it. Why the h3ll would you not take the feelings of the child into consideration when making a decision that is going to change his life?

Now granted sometimes thing have to be done regardless of how the child feels, but when you involve them in the decision making process in some form, it helps them cope with any change that may happen.

And yes I have had eight year-olds, been through that stage twice and I guess I looked at my children differently than some of you here do. I have always listen to and respected what they had to say and from the time they were old enough to be able to make rational decisions and understand consequences, I involved the in the decision making process and did not treat them like babies. Guess what? They are both happy, healthy successful adults capable of making their own decision which many of their friends can't do because they were never taught to think for themselves.
 LiliMarleen
Joined: 5/24/2009
Msg: 74
view profile
History
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 9:23:05 AM
Well, I'm glad you're talking.

But I think making an 8 yo. the decision maker in this is a bad idea. The situation is much too complex for a child that young to decide, and it will be impossible for the two adults not to manipulate him in how they present the problem. He's EIGHT! He wants his daddyAND his mommy AND Mickey Mouse and for everybody to be happy.

The adults should figure this out, considering his long-term needs, not fickle, momentary wants. Then they can together present him with the joint solution and explain why they're both happy with it. THATwill give him a sense of security.

Letting him be the deciding factor is SO putting him in the middle and giving him an amount of responsibility he's in no way equipped to handle. Kids know very well what they're capable of. And this is not it.
 jan1025
Joined: 3/23/2009
Msg: 75
view profile
History
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 9:23:50 AM
"poor reading comprehension here"

Mention Disneyland to him again, and they will have him eating out of their hands!

Yeah, like an eight year old knows which parent is right, after all he's got three of them to "way out the pros and cons"!

I'd say that's too big of a burden for any child to make, especially at that age.

I just love how parents think their children can solve their problems!

This is an excellent time to point out that some people shouldn't be parents, because they are still kids themselves!

ok
Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  > Torn need advice