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 Hamilton12345
Joined: 3/29/2012
Msg: 76
Torn need advicePage 4 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
And again I will say poor reading comprehension. Nowhere did the OP say that they were going to let their son make the decision, they said they were going to talk to him and see how he felt about it all before a final decision was made.

Huge difference between those two statements. And again I will ask, why not involve the child in the decision that will have a lasting effect on his life? We just say to h3ll with their feelings and we will do what we feel is best even though we can't agree on what is best? We will just go ahead and bicker and fight and let the courts make a decision without ever consulting the child? You know what the judge will do? TALK TO THE CHILD! Interesting concept that apparently the courts think the 8 year old is capable of having an opinion even if the rest of the world doesn't.
 jan1025
Joined: 3/23/2009
Msg: 77
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Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 9:44:57 AM
Poor reading comprehension on your part. They already talked to him... both sides did, now they want to really sit down and drag it out on him, and put it right to him. This puts the child in the middle.

When the child got on the phone and told Daddy that he was going to miss him even though he was going be around Disneyland, the parents already told the child. The child knows... what didn't you read?

What more do they need to drill the child about now?
whatever....
 mermaid140
Joined: 8/29/2012
Msg: 78
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 9:49:27 AM

And again I will say poor reading comprehension. Nowhere did the OP say that they were going to let their son make the decision, they said they were going to talk to him and see how he felt about it all before a final decision was made


When you talk about it with the child this soon it will be in his head that the decision is on him. Of course they not going to let the child decide but it will create anxiety for the child. Kids don't like their world to change.

I guess I have poor reading comprehension.... I read in between the lines. I just know how this end up. A crying child for sure....
 soulsearcher012
Joined: 7/4/2012
Msg: 79
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Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 10:11:52 AM
Hamilton your exactly right.
he is not going to make the decision, we want to explain the whole moving issue to him
he will not have to choose anything or anyone. our son was never asked how he felt about moving when he hears Florida he thinks Disney he thinks vacation we want to make sure he understands this is not a vacation.
That's all.

I would never , ever put my son in a position to choose between his parents.
If you all thought that I'm sorry , Maybe I should have clarified or chose my wording better.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 80
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 10:13:57 AM

I just love how parents think their children can solve their problems!...This is an excellent time to point out that some people shouldn't be parents, because they are still kids themselves!


Agree. And in many cases, it seems like breeding kills brain cells. Rational people become totally irrational when it comes to kiddy care. But go ahead and let the eight year old evaluate and compare the economic situation, tax structure and education system between the two states, and the economic benefits for the family that comes with the move. I'm sure any eight year old can comprehend all of that and weigh the pros and cons to making a move. Then let him decide what's more feasible for his family. lol.

Even though the OP sees his son quite often, I would think his kid is viewing him or starting to view him more like a constant visitor, like an uncle, since he's not part of his home structure, where he lives with two parents and siblings. So there's a good chance the kid is not going to be totally devastated if he doesn't his bio dad as often. This is more about what the OP wants and still having some control of the ex rather than strictly thinking of what's best for the kid.
 jan1025
Joined: 3/23/2009
Msg: 81
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Posted: 2/16/2013 10:16:02 AM
BS then why did your child say that he was going to miss you if you were going on a vacation together....

You can just keep reinventing your story as you go.... Now, I can see why your ex is remarried and why she has to make the choices she does...

Keep telling yourself whatever it is to make yourself feel better..
Cheers!
 soulsearcher012
Joined: 7/4/2012
Msg: 82
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Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 10:38:43 AM

My son is 8 when I talked to him about it he said Daddy I wont be able to see you a lot and that makes me sad.
but as a typical kid in his next breath he said the good thing is I can go to Disney world a lot !


My son won't be going to Disneyworld a lot . my son will be in school this is not a vacation for him
and Disney World is all he talks about since I picked him up yesterday.

And Jan your comment
( Now, I can see why your ex is remarried and why she has to make the choices she does...)

Was totally unnecessary and waaaay off I however thank you for the positive comments you gave me in the beginning .
 soulsearcher012
Joined: 7/4/2012
Msg: 83
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Posted: 2/16/2013 11:56:27 AM
Bk2 ,
We just want to make sure he understands completely that this is not a vacation and that
this is where he will be living and going to school that's all nothing else.
and thanks for your input you're advice is sound and rational.
 carolann0308
Joined: 12/9/2006
Msg: 84
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Posted: 2/16/2013 12:12:54 PM
She won't have to work if she moves? I wish I hadn't heard that part, undoubtedly your child support will allow them to assist in that goal.
Are you prepared to take full custody? Is it feasible? I have to agree with other posters that perhaps allowing you to forgo CS in order to visit frequently or moving to Florida may be in option.
A friend of mine moved to FL when his Ex took the kids there, he did get a job and it is a good one but he NEVER wanted to live down south. But he did it for the kids.
 relaxingwithyou
Joined: 2/12/2013
Msg: 85
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 12:25:04 PM
Hopefully you have recorded and saved all messages from your ex expressing her anger that it's all about what she wants. That's the part I don't get. She should expect that you would not want your child to move away and should be very apologetic, kind and coaxing to you. Offering you a deal you can't refuse. Instead its all about her and what she wants.

Personally if I were in her shoes I would have no respect for my second husband to even consider wanting to take a child away from his other parent. Apparently career/more money trumps all for them both.

I wouldn't tell her a thing other than talk to record her messages. A judge would love to see how much she doesn't care about her child seeing his father.
 John255317
Joined: 12/28/2012
Msg: 86
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 12:52:37 PM
OP, this very young child is not going to be able to comprehend it when you explain that he won't be going to disneyland all the time. It won't compute in his brain, and along with that, he should only be talked to in certain ways when you adults make up your mind and decision. Then he for sure needs to be talked to. If my kids had been that young when I got divorced, I would have wanted my sons as close to me in my life as I possibly could have. Someones ability to better themselves by getting a transfer to another far away place would not even be remotely in my decision to allow to happen. We are talking about a little child, sorrry, but I could care less how great a guy this person is. Some may say it would be better to not "cause" waves. What about the future if the boy stays where he is , that he knows what could have happened and his dad cared for him so deeply. Ya, maybe there will be hard times, resentments etc but guess what?, there is that stuff in real life and normal life. We all have to deal with that. The ex and her husband need to really really ubderstabd that but I would think with the husband getting what he wants and the mother not having to work if they move, that side of the equation is going to be more interested in that then really thinking what it will do. If you were a dead beat dad OP, then good for them, but sounds like you aren't. That should be enough to figure out what you need to do. It isn't about your ex and hurting her, you don't want that
 five-marie
Joined: 7/31/2011
Msg: 87
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Posted: 2/16/2013 2:51:38 PM
I think I'm agreeing that it's not a good idea to ask him what he thinks about moving. He may feel guilt for whatever decision is made, guilt for whatever parent is unhappy. Children often think they are the cause of whatever goes on around them.You haven't responded to queries about taking custody, not feasible? Also, just curious, is your son going to lose all his extended family with the move? I grew up with none, no aunts/uncles/cousins/grandparents. I envied all my friends who had this and always felt I was missing something. How does your family feel about this?
 Hamilton12345
Joined: 3/29/2012
Msg: 88
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 3:13:14 PM
Here's the funny thing about what everyone is saying. Children do often feel like they are the cause of what is going on around because no one tells them what is going on and they are not included in the decision making process. When the children are kept in the loop and feel like they are a part of the process, they are less likely to have the insecurities of a child who is kept in the dark for the sake of being a child.

We really do not credit our children with the brains and ability that they innately possess. In many parts of the world, right or wrong as it may be, 8-year-olds are either helping to support the family or taking care of younger siblings while their parents are out earning money. While I do not condone this in anyway, it does show how little we in the western world seem to understand about children and their ability to cope.

OP, I am of the school of talk to your child and let him talk to both you and your ex in the same room, that way you both know what has been communicated to the boy. Let him know that while he does not have the final say in the decision, he is part of the process.
 Out_of_the_Ash
Joined: 3/1/2009
Msg: 89
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Posted: 2/16/2013 3:46:35 PM
I think the problem is that a lot of people here believe they are thinking about what is best for the son based off their own personal emotions. Having your kid taken far away from you is sad, it will suck not having them around, yeah, but it's not the end of the world.

Kids are not as fragile as people think they are. So long as your son knows you love him and you can visit, I don't see the problem. It's the initial shock that needs to wear off and you need to let your ex chill for a bit and talk to a lawyer. Mind you then they will need a lawyer and your ex might get peeved off at the prospect of paying bills for a lawyer, but if she is ignoring your calls, she is getting what's coming unless she wises up.

She can either answer your calls and arrange a less expensive agreement instead of having the lawyers bill you both for every phone call, email and letter they make.

EDIT: If your exes new husband is a stand-up man as you say, maybe you should go to him to talk about things, maybe he is more stable and rational.
 John255317
Joined: 12/28/2012
Msg: 90
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/16/2013 4:24:16 PM
Life will go on obviously if the child moves further away, I myself would not allow it because I would want them in my life more then just a skype and a couple months in between for a few days at that time. Yes, I realize people move but I also realize there are a lot of "throw away kids" in our society. I said and saw this before I had my two boys. Not saying this is that at all, just hear about way too many people that move on and the kids suffer because they are thought of as throw aways. I guess I had a great thing because both me and my ex loved the kids and would never make it to where the kids were far away from either parent. I think once a decision is made in this thread, then the child needs to be sat down and talked to, not before. We are all having an opinion on this topic and OP, whatever decision you make, be really satisfied with it. Sounds like you will.
 Zuglo65
Joined: 4/19/2012
Msg: 91
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Posted: 2/17/2013 6:54:07 AM

I don't agree with asking your son. He is a child and doesn't deserve to choose sides. The decision needs to be made between the parents only.

Wow! Just wow! Doesn't deserve? DOESN'T DESERVE???
We are your parents, now we don't care about your feelings, you do not have a voice!
Wow!
This boy is part of the family, is he not? He isn't going to choose, asking him that is crazy.
But he should be involved, he needs to understand he done nothing wrong, life is funny sometimes.
His step dad will have a better job, Mom gets to stay home, so more time with her.
But Dad won't be able to pick him up that often. Not even an adult could make a right decision on this one.
I say this..
No matter what the outcome will be, the boy will be sad, upset, but talking to him, getting him ready will help.
So I agree with Hamilton, and BK2 said it right too.


BTW..Mermaid..Little off topic, but your profile says no kids, than you say you have an 8 years old??
Just curious.
 jan1025
Joined: 3/23/2009
Msg: 92
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Posted: 2/17/2013 7:53:28 AM
“My son is 8 when I talked to him about it he said Daddy I wont be able to see you a lot and that makes me sad, but as a typical kid in his next breath he said the good thing is I can go to Disney world a lot ! “

Maybe I do have comprehensive problem because to me this above paragraph basically said to me the boy already knew he might be leaving his father and leaving to live in Florida. Maybe, I read between the lines, maybe OB didn’t explain it right, I don’t know….

I think the child should know what is going on, but I do not believe that three parents or two parents need to put him down and start hashing out their decision. OP has said,

“I suggested we talk to our son together and explain to him as best we can the pros and cons of
him moving and see how he feels. so when I bring him home Sunday afternoon we will
explain as best we can to him and see if he can understand the good points and the
downside.”

What I got out of the above paragraph was a gang up in front of a child. Meaning, when one ways out the “pros and cons” tell me that the parents haven’t decided on what to do, and is going to hash it out in front of an 8 year old. Sorry, maybe I read this wrong, but that’s how I read it.

So with that all said, I don’t believe the “pros and cons” should be hashed out in front of children or even in front of other people of any age!

This tells me that the adults are un able to make a decision without the help of an 8 year old. To me, this is incomprehensible. Meaning, that they should be able to decide what they want to do and then sit the child down and tell him what the final decision is, and then allow him the time to adjust to that change.

They already know how the child feels, why beat the horse in front of the child? It just doesn't make sens e to me.

To the others that said an eight year old should be part of a grown up decision tells me that they think this child is capable of making adult decisions, and that is not true of an 8 year old. Why put a person especially a child through that?

I believe a child should enjoy their childhood. I've seen many children act like they are in their 20’s when they are 12, because their parents discussed adult things in front of their children. To me this is making a child grow up fast, and to me this life is too short for a child to be a grown up acting at the age of 8 or 12 or 15, when they should be acting their age and not the age of an adult. Adult things come when they come, with age. Let a child remain a child for as long as you can, and that’s how I believe and that is how I raised my daughter and she is a professional, yet even today, she talks about her childhood with great happiness and joy! I just hope your 8 year old will be able to say the same when he is 27, but that is the future, isn't?

I was a single parent, just to let you know, I made my own decisions, and allowed my daughter to be a child that she was...

I wish you the best of luck in all your endeavors.
Jan
 Midwest_Southwest
Joined: 9/9/2012
Msg: 93
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/17/2013 8:03:14 AM
I don’t think that it’s a good idea to talk with Son about the move until you and Mom have decided what will happen and what Son will be doing. I would wait “to explain” until there is a resolution and something to explain. Before its resolved, you’d only be telling him that its uncertain- which doesn’t do him any good. What’s the point?

Overall… it appears as though you have consented to the move (“this is where he will live and go to school”), so I hope you all work out additional parenting time for Son and you, and that Mom and Step Dad assist in additional cost you might incur.

If I were you, I would also ask that in the future Mom and Step Dad discuss significant decisions that involve you and Son before making those decisions, at least so that your concerns will be factored into the decision. Of course, they make their own decisions. They don’t have to defer to you. I wouldn’t blame or accuse, but just explain that it can be upsetting to have a decision handed to you without your input first, that you’d like to be involved and to express your concerns.

I wouldn’t tell them this, but in my opinion, they handled this very poorly. Both Mom and Step Dad should have considered Son’s relationship with you and therefore talked with you before they decided. Yes, Step Dad too. You have ten years of co-parenting ahead of you, and that requires everyone to respect everyone else’s interests and input when decision making for Son. The use of the Disney World card indicates that they were persuading Son, well before you were consulted. They made a mistake. It would be best if they were more cooperative in the future and I hope that they take that lesson- gently- from this event.
 gofurguy
Joined: 11/1/2011
Msg: 94
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/17/2013 8:14:08 AM
whats best for your son should come first, as hard as it is the best thing to do is still keep a phone conversation with your son, get to visit him as much as possible, remember when hes 18 he can go and do as he pleases so it might be tough for a while but he'll know you have his best interest at heart and make sure you get to see him as much as your possible in florida. its hard not to think just about the present , but i like family for life
 Stubidooo
Joined: 12/30/2012
Msg: 95
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/17/2013 8:16:25 AM

A judge would love to see how much she doesn't care about her child seeing his father

The judge isn't going to care one way or the other. If they go to blows, the court will most likely appoint a guardian ad litem to represent the child. This individual will do an investigation and make a recommendation to the court. These individuals "filter" out all negatives. They are only interested in what is best for the child and I've already given my opinion on how I think that will go.


I myself would not allow it

You yourself have absolutely no say whatsoever. If you and your ex could not resolve it amicably, a court will decide the issue for you and you will most likely be worse off than if you had taken a different approach.
 soulsearcher012
Joined: 7/4/2012
Msg: 96
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Torn need advice
Posted: 2/17/2013 8:30:42 AM
Bk2 asked
....Now here is a question....Are they moving away from you for a reason because you are interferring or bothering the family? Does your X feel her new husband is a better fatherly influence on your child?? Because, it is very odd that a family will up and move and take a son away from the father when they could make do right where they are.....this is strange......



Bk,
The only reason they have to move to Florida is his promotion has a relocation to that state.
I am a positive force in my son's life I see him every weekend and every Wed.
my ex's husband works long, long, hours and honestly barely has time for his own children.
Don't get me wrong he is a nice person .
I am my son's teacher in life I want to make sure that I'm there to love , guide and teach him
so he grows up to be a good man , a good person with values so in turn he will be able to teach his
children when and if he has them.
 safaa30
Joined: 3/1/2012
Msg: 97
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Posted: 2/17/2013 9:36:59 AM
This sitting down business with your son is because you know ex has put her points across to him now you want to put yours across too and balance things out. But in the long run does it really matter that you ground him back to the fact that life away is going to be the same boring old school and football and homework? Or are you abit hurt that he seems more excited about disneyland than he is about you? She may have brainwashed him but why does it have to be a game of ping pong? Why not leave him in his fantasy until you both decide what is ACTUALLY going to happen if he isnt going to MAKE the decision and sit him down then? Why have him thinking and worrying about what he has to say infront of you so as not to upet you or his mom?

Sounds like you both need to have a loong chat with a child psychologist....
 Midwest_Southwest
Joined: 9/9/2012
Msg: 98
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/17/2013 10:10:27 AM
OP, how long has your ex-wife been married to Step Dad?
 dmzvisitor
Joined: 3/25/2011
Msg: 99
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/17/2013 4:36:28 PM
Don't ever, ever ask a child to choose between his parents in any way, shape, or form--good god, do you people not read about these issues? Any time you even hint at making the other parent seem bad, or offer any type of choice involving parents (do you want to go to the movies with your dad tomorrow, or go with us to the party? You can do either; it's ok!) is "splitting" the child. Kids are not stupid and they recognize it isn't just a choice about a movie or a party--it's about mommy and daddy--even if you truly don't mean it that way.

Even asking an 8 year old his opinion on such a subject is seriously risking his emotional health. If *anything* goes wrong, or even if it doesn't, he can quickly blame himself. It's just too much risk! Study after study has proven this. Parents should always, always, always present a united front--"We made the decision and we think this is best," and any parent who feels they have "lost" just has to suck it up for the sake of the child. "Yes, I'll miss you , son, but I'm a grown up and I can visit whenever I want, and. . ." It's tricky, too, because it's also important that the less-present parent work hard to make it clear s/he isn't abandoning the child.

Children make transitions at certain points--entering middle school or high school, for example. IF the OP decides to consider letting his son move, he has every right to expect that the son may choose to spend the middle school years with him, or maybe the high school years.

And while mom may be acting like a ****, that should not influence the OP's decision. What is best for his son is really the only consideration. I haven't read back enough to see if the OP is involved more than 25% of the time in his son's life--but anything approaching 50% and it is an entirely different matter. 25% can be easily re-negotiated and is enough to make sure a kid doesn't feel abandoned, but it isn't a daily or even every-other-day presence. If dad is primarily an every-other weekend and dinner once-a-week guy, then he has the benefit of being the "fun" parent, and he can do that on vacations, etc. That is not at all saying that this type of parenting is unimportant or less important--it is just very different and allows for a lot more flexibility.
 Debyduz_
Joined: 5/4/2012
Msg: 100
Torn need advice
Posted: 2/17/2013 6:42:25 PM
You sound like you have a really good head on your shoulders. I am not reading spite or either side.

This may sound weird but could you also move to Florida?

I have this agreement in my divorce and I would never consider moving away from the ex.

With this economy a promotion is hard to refused especially when he has so many mouths to feed.

I think you will be able to figure it out. Maybe have a lunch and has out some ideas. When some families have this separation they often split school year and summers.

Keep focusing on solutions and not the negativity.

P.S> Thanks for being and awesome involved dad. they make the world go round
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