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 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 126
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#130

A friend of mine once said, "How can we punish someone by putting them to death when we are doing exactly what they did ... put someone to death."


Whoever said it, the notion the state's execution of a murderer is no less immoral than what the murderer did is nonsense. If all killings of people were equally immoral, no one would have a right to kill in self-defense, or to defend a loved one, and no one would have a right to kill in a war to protect his country.

The U.S. Navy hanged almost one thousand Japanese soldiers for war crimes. These individuals had, among other things, raped and murdered pregnant women, slaughtered children for fun, poured gasoline on people and burned them alive, set fire to inhabited apartment buildings after blocking the escapes, cut open living people or used them for bayonet practice, defiled and decapitated the corpses of captives they had murdered, and in some cases tortured prisoners of war to death by tying them down on their backs, jamming sticks up their nostrils, putting a funnel into their mouths, pouring a couple gallons of water into them, and then whaling on their swollen bellies with a club until they died or heart attacks or choked to death on their own vomit.

But as you see right and wrong, apparently, what the Navy did by putting these murderers on the gallows was just as wicked as what they'd done.
 bucsgirl
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 127
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Jodi Arias Trial
Posted: 4/18/2013 10:47:16 AM
To justify putting someone to death who has taken someone else's life, it's for the protection of society so they can't murder another person. It's not just a tit for tat, it's the state that brings the case against the defendant and it's not just punishment for the crime, it's for the safety of the citizens wich is the duty of the criminal justice system.

Putting someone to death is not murder, you can't compare them at all. Murder is against the law, whereas a death sentence is handed down by the crinimal justice system. More different than even apples and oranges, it's like comparing apples to hamburger.

Our legal system exists to decide on consequences for breaking the law and keeping dangerous people locked up.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 128
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Jodi Arias Trial
Posted: 4/18/2013 10:49:00 AM

Jodi Arias killed a man because he wouldn't marry her ...
Interesting ... I didn't know the state was saying that.
 lostcausein
Joined: 3/16/2013
Msg: 129
Jodi Arias Trial
Posted: 4/18/2013 10:57:59 AM

To justify putting someone to death who has taken someone else's life, it's for the protection of society so they can't murder another person. It's not just a tit for tat ....Our legal system exists to decide on consequences for breaking the law and keeping dangerous people locked up.


So why not just keep them locked up to protect society ?

Otherwise it sure seems like tit for tat to me.
 phoenix_55
Joined: 7/25/2012
Msg: 130
Jodi Arias Trial
Posted: 4/18/2013 11:29:46 AM
"Jodi Arias killed a man because he wouldn't marry her ..."

cotter replied: "Interesting ... I didn't know the state was saying that."

You're right. The state didn't actually utter those words. But let's be honest here -- what other reason did she have to kill the guy? I guess not taking her to Cancun might be murder-worthy in some twisted sense.

I believe she was using the afternoon of sex and steamy, sexy shower pictures to get him to change his mind about taking someone else to Cancun. But just in case that didn't work, she packed up a gun and a knife and made up her crazy ninja story to cover her a$$.

It's well documented that she stalked him. All of his friends have testified to that. Normal people don't stalk other people. However, people who are insanely jealous do stalk people.

Jodi Arias killed Travis Alexander in a jealous rage. It was premeditated because she brought along the gun she stole from her grandparents, despite her story of finding the gun in the closet,which we all know is a lie. There was no record of Travis Alexander possessing a gun. She deserves the death penalty.

End of story.
 bucsgirl
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 131
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Jodi Arias Trial
Posted: 4/18/2013 4:01:45 PM
As someone said, the defense doesn't have to prove their claim, which is true. It's the duty of the prosecution to prove their case, that's just basic jury trial 101.

However, the defense will have to "sell" their defense to the jury, because if the jury doesn't "buy" it, that could be enough for a guilty verdict. If you think like a juror, what would you look for? I'd look for proof that she was there (which there is plenty of) the lack of proof there was anyone else there. As far as whether she stalked him or not or whatever else, their relationship certainly was fairly rocky and certainly out of the norm. I don't think that would weigh that heavily with a jury, BUT that's just my opinion. If she brought the gun, then along with the pictures which place her at the scene at the time and her interview where she made up some story about two other guys who came and attacked them which she then recanted, that seems to pretty much seal it for me. Again, though it's just my opinion, but that's what I'd be thinking if I were a juror.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 132
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Jodi Arias Trial
Posted: 4/18/2013 10:16:54 PM
I haven't followed this trial closely and don't know the details. But I think it would have been good for the prosecution to use a woman prosecutor and to try to get as many female jurors as possible.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 133
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Posted: 4/18/2013 10:45:48 PM

Interesting ... I didn't know the state was saying that.


What? I was giving my person opinion. I don't speak for the state.
 Happy_gal2013
Joined: 12/30/2012
Msg: 134
Jodi Arias Trial
Posted: 4/19/2013 3:37:58 PM
Op, thanks for starting this thread.

I agree with the posters stating she is crazy. I have watched this case off and on over the past few weeks. She sets there emotionless. She seems to have no remorse. I feel the death penalty should be considered. I think the abuse theory is truly lacking proof thus far in the case.
 activemelaney
Joined: 9/8/2012
Msg: 135
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Posted: 4/21/2013 4:20:00 PM
^^

Crazy?
Then why would you want the death penalty for someone who is crazy? I don't agree with the death penalty but it is used for cases where a person has the faculties to have understood the enormity of the crime they are about to commit...and had the understanding beforehand. People are not executed for killing another human being but doing so with planned calculation. Less than 1% of convicted killers are executed in the USA and Jodi is far from being anywhere near the 1% who are.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 136
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Posted: 4/22/2013 7:50:33 AM
If Jodi really wanted to kill Travis to keep him from going on vacation with another woman, she could have waited for him to fall asleep and then just shoot him or stab him to death ... she did not have to have battle with him on a wet bathroom floor.

I don't think she planned to kill him ... there are just too many other ways she could have done it.
 phoenix_55
Joined: 7/25/2012
Msg: 137
Jodi Arias Trial
Posted: 4/22/2013 8:16:45 AM
^^^Common sense would certainly dictate a more rational approach such as you mentioned. However, let's not forget we're dealing with a sociopath. Her thought processes aren't like those of normal people. Besides, I think she wanted Travis to know he was going to die and that's why she attacked him when he was naked and vulnerable.
 Happy_gal2013
Joined: 12/30/2012
Msg: 138
Jodi Arias Trial
Posted: 4/23/2013 9:04:21 AM
Message 146

I stated:
" I feel the death penalty should be considered". That means sort the facts and let the courts attempt to proceed possibly with the death penalty as a consideration. I did not state to kill her. This case is not over, so yes it should be considered as many killers have been considered in the past.

If you do not support the laws, then talk to the supreme courts or law makers to change the law.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 139
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Posted: 4/24/2013 8:30:29 PM
OMG ... that Deanna Reid was soooooooo believable (and innocent) that she was obviously UN-believeable ...

I call "BOGUS" on her testimony!

C'mon now... did the state really think that woman would get up there (sweet little Mormon girl that she is?????) and go into all kinds of details about her sex life (before marriage) with that horn dog Travis? If she is not yet married, I'm sure she would not want anyone to know that she is no longer a "virgin".

If she IS married, then if she presented herself to her husband as a "virgin" (as is apparently expected of the Mormon religion), then she sure isn't going to admit to a horny sexual relationship with Travis back then. Either way ... that woman will take her sexual history with Travis to her grave.

How dumb do they think the jury is? Do they think the jury can't figure out what's going on there? Give us a break! It's just against human nature to abstain from such intimacies in such a long, on-going relationship that could have been regarded as "courtship".

Believe me, if Travis was not even admitting to it when he was openly sleeping in the same hotel room with Jodi, and he was still putting himself out there as a 30-year old virgin, then there is no way Deanna Reid would ever admit to misbehaving against her religion in public on national TV.

As for the "gas can" issue ... it's not a factor at all. I don't think it indicates premeditation. I know I would never have embarked on any trip to cross the desert without extra gas. Wasn't Jodi driving a car that she had not driven before? I just bought a car 2 months ago and still can not be sure what kind of gas mileage I get.
 Rainiqui
Joined: 10/4/2010
Msg: 140
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Posted: 4/24/2013 10:08:57 PM

Believe me, if Travis was not even admitting to it when he was openly sleeping in the same hotel room with Jodi, and he was still putting himself out there as a 30-year old virgin, then there is no way Deanna Reid would ever admit to misbehaving against her religion in public on national TV.


Hmm, then I guess we can't believe you. Deanna Reid testified in court on April 24th, 2013 that she and Travis had sex multiple times. I'm left wondering if we're watching the same trial....
 phoenix_55
Joined: 7/25/2012
Msg: 141
Jodi Arias Trial
Posted: 4/25/2013 6:37:53 AM
I heard Deanna Reid's testimony and found her to be credible and honest. She testified she and Travis had a sexual relationship for a year and then, for whatever reason, they talked to the Bishop and admitted what they'd done. I have no idea what the ramifications of premarital sex would be as I'm not Mormon, but apparently death or excommunication wasn't the punishment for that sin.

Back to Jodi: "As for the "gas can" issue ... it's not a factor at all. I don't think it indicates premeditation. I know I would never have embarked on any trip to cross the desert without extra gas. Wasn't Jodi driving a car that she had not driven before?"

I disagree. If you combine the gas cans, the rented car, the "stolen" gun that all adds up to premiditation to me. She was driving a car she was unfamiliar with because she rented a car so her car wouldn't be recognized at Travis's hous. Although she had some lame story of trying to save money so she rented a car. Who rents a car to save money? Same with the gas cans. She had all those cans of gas so she wouldn't have to stop for gas, thereby escaping detection once again.

It's beyond me how someone can't see this as premeditation.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 142
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Posted: 4/25/2013 7:33:44 AM
^^^^I saw a cross examination where the defense asked her if Travis ever called her a slut ... wh0re ... "3-hole-wonder", then he asked her if Travis had ever had sex with her and she said that he did not and that he had always been a perfect gentleman.

Maybe she changed her mind for the defense?
 Rainiqui
Joined: 10/4/2010
Msg: 143
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Posted: 4/25/2013 3:42:44 PM

^^^^I saw a cross examination where the defense asked her if Travis ever called her a slut ... wh0re ... "3-hole-wonder", then he asked her if Travis had ever had sex with her and she said that he did not and that he had always been a perfect gentleman.

Maybe she changed her mind for the defense?


What you think you saw and what actually happened are very different.

On direct examination, Deanna Reid admitted to prosecutor Juan Martinez that she had had sex with Travis Alexander on a number of occasions. On cross examination by defense lawyer Kirk Nurmi, Reid reiterated that same point. After Nurmi asked her the questions you mention above, he DID NOT ask her "if Travis had ever had sex with her" and she DID NOT say "that he did not and that he had always been a perfect gentleman". Therefore Reid DID NOT "change her mind for the defense"

Perhaps you could refresh your memory by reviewing the actual testimony here -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s42oYAZYArs
________________



It's beyond me how someone can't see this as premeditation.


I agree with you Phoenix - I can't see how anyone who has carefully listened to all the testimony could possibly see this as anything other than premeditated first degree murder.
 Rainiqui
Joined: 10/4/2010
Msg: 144
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Posted: 4/26/2013 2:04:43 PM

^^^^ Some posters just have a habit of distorting the truth. It's not new. Try not to let it bother you too much.


Thanks for the laugh. I've engaged in dialectic with all kinds of posters here for 6 1/2 years. Posts and posters don't bother me at all but I'll admit that ignorance might give me pause for concern, LOL.
 bucsgirl
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 145
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Posted: 4/26/2013 5:09:05 PM
"It's beyond me how someone can't see this as premeditation."

This isn't the linchpin as far as the conviction phase, but it is cruicial to the sentencing part. I have experience, that I never wanted as being a key witness in a first degree murder trial, and what most people (with no criminal justice or legal experience) don't understand about premeditation is that it is not relative to a length of time. In the case I was involved in, the lead prosecutor educated the jury that although the person who was murdered was not the intended target, there was audio confession that the perp made a decision that he had to kill this other person who was there to kill the person he came there to murder. I just say that to make that point that premeditation doesn't mean the prosecution has to prove intent (which is crucial) happened before the person arrived at the scene of the crime.

There was a brief update aired today while I had the TV on, and I haven't admittedly followed this case from the beginning, but IF the prosecution has proven it was her gun and she brought it with her, to my knowledge there is no substantive proof, or corroborative testimony of an abusive relationship, then...just take a common sense pause and imagine if you were a juror. Is there a defensible reason for her to have brought the gun (her gun...murder weapon) into the house?

This is only one reason why this trial has gone on for several months, and being how the justice system operates, it's really how the system actually operates. All the other questions, distractions, what blah blah about the relationship, emails, photos...yadda yadda. I tend to think like a juror would, perhaps because of my own experience, and honestly I can tell you that most of what's been posted here would be the white nosie the defense is tasked with tossing out but which the jurors, as best as they are able to, will discard as not relative.

A volitile relationship? A sexually charged relationship? Blah blah...neither of those are a crime, or end up in a courtroom. Remember the judge is taked with instructions to the jury and that's the LAST thing they hear before going to deliberate.

And I wish I could remeber more about the case, but if it IS a fact that she brought her own gun to the crime scene, then it would seem so insurountable to cop a defense of self defesne given the physical evidence AND her own final adission she WAS there. Fill in the cliche, dog and pony show, smoke and mirrors,....Jurors are tasked with an incredible responsibily and it's taken very seriously. Absent the appearance of a botched investigation, this one seems to be in the bag. Then again, Casey Anthony and OH Simpson were also acquitted. Both lengthy trials with mind boggiing testimony to conider. Any prosecuting or defense attorney would tell you, it's a unknown until the verdict is published. That's all that matters..
 Bluegold007
Joined: 4/22/2013
Msg: 146
Jodi Arias Trial
Posted: 4/27/2013 10:20:13 AM
is this the gal in arizona your all talking about?
 phoenix_55
Joined: 7/25/2012
Msg: 147
Jodi Arias Trial
Posted: 4/29/2013 9:56:36 AM
^^^Yes. The same one who stabbed her boyfriend 27 times (mostly in the back), slashed his throat and shot him in the head ... and claimed self-defense. He only had defensive wounds.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 148
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Posted: 5/1/2013 4:05:03 PM
Missed some of the testimony today ... hopefully I'll get a nice review tomorrow before the closing arguments begin.
 annywn
Joined: 4/17/2012
Msg: 149
Jodi Arias Trial
Posted: 5/1/2013 10:15:27 PM
Seriously, the lady defence atty Seriously is the most annoying person on the face of the planet.
What on earth was suppose to get accomplished today?
 phoenix_55
Joined: 7/25/2012
Msg: 150
Jodi Arias Trial
Posted: 5/2/2013 7:10:43 AM
At this point, they're throwing everything against the wall to see what will stick. They're fighting an uphill battle trying to defend her. There's just way too much evidence against her for first degree murder and they know it.

And I agree that woman defense lawyer -- Jennifer I think, is extremely annoying but that other attorney Kurt Nurmi (or Nerdy as I call him) ... well, he's a snoozefest. His monotone voice is barely tolerable to listen to.
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