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 AUTHOR
 TOaks91360
Joined: 11/22/2013
Msg: 51
appearancesPage 3 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
I'm actually offended by a woman that puts too much emphasis on being 'dolled up'. You know why? I feel like you think your beauty is all that I desire. That's shallow. Not all men put so much value on that.

When I say dolled up? I mean to say a woman that dyes her hair blonde (she's an Asian and I've seen her as a brunette,lol) and wears a mini skirt and has long, polished nails. She's 49 and reeks sex. Did I go for it you ask? Nope. Now if she had a job and wasn't living with her mother? Well then...she wouldn't be there with me, huh?

I was disgusted that she thought that's all I valued.

We all have degrees of vanity, but in extreme amounts? Next...
 ktxginger
Joined: 11/11/2013
Msg: 52
appearances
Posted: 1/12/2014 10:46:02 PM
OP
I have gotten many remarks from guys (IRL and online) about my 'natural' look. I don't wear make up or jewelry (except a watch) and the only thing I do to my hair is wash it - no hairspray, curling iron, etc. All the remarks from guys were compliments - not one person has said to me "wow, go put on some makeup to look better".

People also seem to appreciate that I can be ready to walk out the door to go somewhere with a couple minutes notice since I don't have to say "Oh, I don't have makeup on yet, give me a little bit". There's benefits to having a 'low maintenance' appearance lol. Plus, I don't have to worry about certain 'activities' ruining my hair or makeup ...
 ktxginger
Joined: 11/11/2013
Msg: 53
appearances
Posted: 1/12/2014 10:53:57 PM

and a fake bra to look remotely attractive, well, then you're not attractive.

You know, a fake bra is like those potato chip bags that are mostly air. You open them up and POOF! More air then chips...hahahahahahahaha


I can just imagine the look on a guys face when he finally gets into that fake bra. Here he was thinking 'Wow, what a rack on this chick, I can't wait to get her bra off and I get to touch them" and then the bra comes off and there's not much there at all ... I'm sure that would be very disappointing lol,
 Like2dance
Joined: 4/13/2013
Msg: 54
view profile
History
appearances
Posted: 1/13/2014 3:35:38 PM
I like to see photos which show as well as possible how a woman looks in real life. How does she look in a nice dress, in jeans, shorts, a tank top, maybe even a tasteful bathing suit. Men are visual. I know women are visual, too.

If I only see head shots I presume the woman is obese.
 radicaldudemanguy
Joined: 1/8/2014
Msg: 55
appearances
Posted: 1/14/2014 9:32:15 PM
i like to wear sweat pants with holes and flip flops showing off my hairy toes along with a nice wifebeater to top off the ensemble
appearances
Posted: 1/15/2014 1:36:26 PM
(op)

- I hate make-up myself. Just the idea of make-up seems so weird and nonsensical to me, that more people don't see it this way is something that still perplexes me. Putting paint on your face such that it's the way that you always look? Really?

- I do like a little color in the skin from getting some sun. Color isn't just about how it looks, but as an indication suggesting that a woman isn't a shut-in who's afraid of the outdoors. But I know that matching everything by getting full and equal exposure can be bothersome, and, all things being equal, I can find a complete lack of color attractive as well.

- Yes, heels on a woman have their own attractiveness, but this isn't something that I'd ever require in a woman either way, because I'd like her appearance just as much without them, and I know that wearing heels must be a pain in the arse.
 drivingharmony2
Joined: 6/23/2013
Msg: 57
appearances
Posted: 1/16/2014 10:22:51 PM

With all that said, I would think a regular guy is attracted to women that's a combination of the two extremes. You know, if your going out somewhere nice, dress up......wear makeup, do your hair. If your home on a Saturday morning, cleaning house, washing your car, etc., dress casual (shorts, tank top, flip flops or what ever you wear that's casual....


Well said! Cautiousluv! and you are not that pale.....you should see my butt....no, that's another thread....hahahha
======
OP-Jeni366: I highly recommend www.evanmarckatz.com website. It has excellent information regarding dating and relationships. After my divorce a few years back, I did a lot of research on dating, relationships, etc....lots of good stuff. You don't need to torture your body to please a man's sense of beauty. But, if a man does not believe YOU find yourself beautiful, NEITHER will he, no matter how you look. You say you are happy and you do enjoy life, but, honestly and no disrespect, I don't get that feel from your profile. It's not about what women are SUPPOSE to do to please men, but, men are visual....PERIOD whether it be liking a woman with heels/no heels; makeup/no makeup;
dressing up/dressing casual, etc... If you are truly comfortable and happy with yourself, it should come through your photos and profile. Remember, you have a brief moment to make an initial impression. Then, that's it. Good luck :)
 Crimefridge
Joined: 9/24/2011
Msg: 58
appearances
Posted: 1/17/2014 12:03:33 AM
How you look is pretty much everything on this site. Pretty much. Someone who looks hot has to then be disqualified by the "deal breakers", as mentioned in the video tutorial. Someone who doesn't look so hot... already got disqualified.
 Princess12524
Joined: 12/23/2013
Msg: 59
appearances
Posted: 1/17/2014 4:23:42 PM

As stated by a few other posters, a women has power in this. Use it. You are trying to attract a male of the species and not win a friendship award or land a job. All this talk about be yourself is true. You're a female of the species. Sensual and sexual. It's completely healthy to turn on female gene.
It's up to each woman to decide what she is willing to do/doesn't need to do to be or feel or look sensual.


You are not a glamour puss it seems but then men say they like the natural look but they dont know how much makeup goes into that look lol!! You wont attract attention on a dating site unless you project some glamour and appeal.

Men want to be turned on by a woman and the image she projects, otherwise they dont bother.


AGREED!

People put so much effort into faking people out. Some women work furiously to disguise their natural appearance and attempt to look like models and stars. They squeeze themselves into one garment to appear smaller, and yet another to create the appearance of more curves. They wear heels to make their legs longer. They risk their health and dismiss their comfort - to please men.
There is a huge diff in faking VS enhancing & rather than "squeezing"- diet & exercise is a good idea :0P As for heels, if a woman wants to wear them to look or feel sexy, that is her business!


A woman's natural beauty should be beautiful enough.
Yes Virginia, there really is a Santa Claus...


Don't you want to be wanted for something other than your appearance?
It is quite naive to think the average man is going to invest his time into getting to know a woman w/o being attracted to her 1st- whatever type of look he likes, he needs "lead in his pencil" first, before he can "write that love letter."


I hate make-up myself. Just the idea of make-up seems so weird and nonsensical to me, that more people don't see it this way is something that still perplexes me. Putting paint on your face such that it's the way that you always look? Really?
Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean the rest of the world doesn't, taking care of one's skin as a routine thing esp. an older woman using moisturizer, & everyone else using a sunblocker/sunscreen, etc. I once had a co-worker who had vitaligo & she wore foundation to even it out, how is THAT paint? Sounds judgemental IMO, yet people who do NOT like makeup do NOT want to be judged?

I LIKE MY MAKEUP! I like my hair & acoutrements, & I attract the men who like a woman who uses products to ENHANCE, not mask!
appearances
Posted: 1/17/2014 4:46:20 PM
Princess12524:


I hate make-up myself. Just the idea of make-up seems so weird and nonsensical to me, that more people don't see it this way is something that still perplexes me. Putting paint on your face such that it's the way that you always look? Really?
Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean the rest of the world doesn't, taking care of one's skin as a routine thing esp. an older woman using moisturizer, & everyone else using a sunblocker/sunscreen, etc. I once had a co-worker who had vitaligo & she wore foundation to even it out, how is THAT paint? Sounds judgemental IMO, yet people who do NOT like makeup do NOT want to be judged?

Oh, c'mon now. Don't be trying to start a bunch of "stuff". I thought OP was asking for different views on the subject, and I was just offering mine to go with everyone else's. I'm pretty aware that there are different strokes for different folks, and I never expect everyone to be the same as me. I definately respect the fact that people are different, and I know that with questions such as OP's, what is prudent is to have that variety of responses and opinions. And I'd guess that OP appreciates a variety of what different people think, instead of wanting all the same responses. But I don't know what that bit about being "judgemental" was all about or why it's even necessary. I wasn't being "judgemental", just trying to convey a feel for how I see things of this nature. I said "make-up seems so weird and nonsensical to me, that more people don't see it this way is something that still perplexes me" in order to explain the way I feel about it, but not to judge, and not because I think everyone else should be the same as me.

Relax. Anytime someone uses upper-case letters more than a couple of times, and invokes the "judgemental" word too much, I think that they need to take a minute and breathe.
 Princess12524
Joined: 12/23/2013
Msg: 61
appearances
Posted: 1/17/2014 4:56:42 PM
Oh, c'mon now. Don't be trying to start a bunch of "stuff". I thought OP was asking for different views on the subject, and I was just offering mine to go with everyone else's. I'm pretty aware that there are different strokes for different folks, and I never expect everyone to be the same as me. I definately respect the fact that people are different, and I know that with questions such as OP's, what is prudent is to have that variety of responses and opinions. I don't know what that bit about being "judgemental" was all about or why it's even necessary. I wasn't being "judgemental", just trying to convey a feel for how I see things of this nature.

this is what YOU posted:
"I hate make-up myself. Just the idea of make-up seems so weird and nonsensical to me, that more people don't see it this way is something that still perplexes me. Putting paint on your face such that it's the way that you always look? Really?"
Sorry, I wear make-up & I am not the one trying to start a bunch of "stuff"
YOU came on here & insulted make-up wearers & when I called you out on it, you tried to "back-pedal"!
I get what OP says, she thinks she looks good in a more natural state (I think she looks good too) & wants to know if other feel the same...I say to each his own, & don't throw the baby out w/ the bathwater.
appearances
Posted: 1/17/2014 4:58:40 PM
Yep. There she goes. Off and running. I tried.
appearances
Posted: 1/17/2014 5:10:45 PM
By the way op, jeni366, I think that in your pictures that you have now you are very pretty. Just the way those pics are. The pose, angle, lighting, etc. I am being completely honest, and not humoring or patronizing you at all in any way. In the pics that you have right now, you may in fact have on some make-up...as has been mentioned, some of the make-up techniques are about getting that natural look and making it look like you don't have any on. I can't tell just from a couple of pics online. But I think that you're quite attractive nonetheless at least to me.

In fact, your profile is awesome. And it reflects an attitude about things like make-up, and many other things that you mention, that I think is very "real" and attractive in that way, forgetting that obviously I have much the same attitude, and even share some of your interests. Hell, you're another one that I find I like yet you're just too far away for me to flirt with you. One point that you made is that you don't like to have to try and "sell" yourself, and can't do so...but you've done exactly what more profiles should do - you've sold yourself very perfectly, because you've conveyed a lot about who you really are, instead of the typical jibber jabber lack of real information that so many profiles seem to be. In just my own opinion...you have succeeded in doing exactly what you should do in your profile with virtuosity. Do not change a thing, or else you'd be doing what you make it clear that you don't want to do - be something that you're not. Bravo sweety!
 Moon_Rocket
Joined: 4/20/2012
Msg: 64
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History
appearances
Posted: 1/17/2014 8:52:40 PM
I hate wearing makeup myself, [I could never stop it cracking at the laughter lines!] however, I have a horse [not this one in the pic!] that could definitely benefit from a makeover as she is one ugly mother. Might see what can be done for the saleyards, oh and she bites too, might try high heels on her, then she would be so distracted and in pain that she might behave herself for five minutes. Yeeeeee hah!

Actually she reminds me of my ex.........um, nah not going there.
 drivingharmony2
Joined: 6/23/2013
Msg: 65
appearances
Posted: 1/17/2014 9:21:03 PM
Drinkthesunwithmyface: Of course, as you know, everyone has a right to their opinion and no doubt opinions will vary. In this scenario, our views greatly differ on OP's profile and photos. And that's ok. She is here to attract a man not a woman. So maybe, other men will have the same reaction as you. However, if OP does not get the results she desires, one must look for change or stay stagnant. I have changed my profile/photos several times over the past 2.5 years. I feel I have a better grasp on what I am looking for and present it in such a way where I am seeing positive results. :)
==========

Actually she reminds me of my ex.........um, nah not going there

^^^^
MoonRocket: How could you? You are the manly man who gladly opens women's doors! :) Ok, let's not discuss doors anymore! Shhhhhh! Forget I brought it up! ;P
 Moon_Rocket
Joined: 4/20/2012
Msg: 66
view profile
History
appearances
Posted: 1/18/2014 4:46:13 AM

MoonRocket: How could you? You are the manly man who gladly opens women's doors! :) Ok, let's not discuss doors anymore! Shhhhhh! Forget I brought it up! ;P


Ah yes but the ex...what? Could be the ex....racehorse, yes?

And as for you drivingmissdaisy twice! Twice you mentioned them and what did the moderator of all things good and evil say? Don't mention the d-d-d-d-d the d-d-d-d don't mention the bluddy doors!
 Crystal_Planet
Joined: 10/30/2013
Msg: 67
appearances
Posted: 1/18/2014 5:39:16 AM
In just my own opinion...you have succeeded in doing exactly what you should do in your profile with virtuosity. Do not change a thing, or else you'd be doing what you make it clear that you don't want to do - be something that you're not. Bravo sweety!


Really? I found her profile a bit off putting and pretty negative. The whole idea of her being comfortable in her own skin could have been conveyed in a small paragraph instead of the entire profile. To me it felt like she was berating me before I even had a chance to speak.

On the whole, people should present themselves as they are most comfortable. Let's face it - not all women like to wear makeup, but some are most comfortable in it. And that's what made them comfortable - society didn't dictate how they should feel. I dated someone who couldn't go out to get milk unless she wore makeup and did her hair, while others were good with just throwing a ball cap on.
 Princess12524
Joined: 12/23/2013
Msg: 68
appearances
Posted: 1/18/2014 6:52:47 AM

Really? I found her profile a bit off putting and pretty negative. The whole idea of her being comfortable in her own skin could have been conveyed in a small paragraph instead of the entire profile. To me it felt like she was berating me before I even had a chance to speak.

On the whole, people should present themselves as they are most comfortable. Let's face it - not all women like to wear makeup, but some are most comfortable in it. And that's what made them comfortable - society didn't dictate how they should feel. I dated someone who couldn't go out to get milk unless she wore makeup and did her hair, while others were good with just throwing a ball cap on.

I enjoyed the CONTENT of OP's profile, she does convey who she is, BUT it could be re-worded to sound more...pleasant.

Location has alot to do w/ a woman's preference for her cosmetic use & application. I was born & bred in New York City & while I have lived north of NYC since 1987, the NY-er in me still feels "cosmopolitan" & sophisticated & I like to present myself "done-up" w/ light makeup, hair done & a mani & pedi. I am frou-frou & feminine & I attract men who like the "princess" type- but that's ME. I would not expect a Tomboy/au natural type to come over to the Clairol/Maybelline side UNLESS she has a lack of success in her romantic relationships & wishes to "spruce-up" to attract different types of men.
 Halcyon_Skies
Joined: 2/1/2009
Msg: 69
appearances
Posted: 1/18/2014 7:59:44 AM
Location has alot to do w/ a woman's preference for her cosmetic use & application. I was born & bred in New York City & while I have lived north of NYC since 1987, the NY-er in me still feels "cosmopolitan" & sophisticated & I like to present myself "done-up" w/ light makeup, hair done & a mani & pedi. I am frou-frou & feminine & I attract men who like the "princess" type- but that's ME. I would not expect a Tomboy/au natural type to come over to the Clairol/Maybelline side UNLESS she has a lack of success in her romantic relationships & wishes to "spruce-up" to attract different types of men.


I come from the same area as you, so I know what you mean. Back in my early college days in New Paltz, N.Y., near Woodstock, I tended to attract the long-haired "hippie" types. I had long, curly hair down to my waist, and still do. I didn't wear any makeup at the time except for clear lip gloss.

I've kept my hair long, but I'm no longer into the same kind of men I was back in the '70s. A light application of makeup, plucking my eyebrows, and straightening my hair gives me a more polished look, and appeals to the more polished, clean-cut type of men that I'm attracted to today.
appearances
Posted: 1/18/2014 9:40:15 AM

Really? I found her profile a bit off putting and pretty negative. The whole idea of her being comfortable in her own skin could have been conveyed in a small paragraph instead of the entire profile.

Concerning how a person looks for someone in general, and so how they write a profile in particular, I figure that they need to know the difference between doing things to cater to what different people think is acceptable, and doing things geared for who they're looking for. Writing the profile for those kind who you're looking for, to be recognized and understood by them...versus writing it so that it's more likeable to everyone else. Trying to increase the number of positive responses by many versus trying to increase the chances of getting across to the ones you're looking for. Some people forget that the idea isn't to attract people, but it is to attract the ones you belong with. This doesn't mean that you're being abrasive and stuck-up to others. Sometimes a person could be, and in such cases they might need to change that. But it's op's prerogative to do this with a small paragraph, or with the "entire profile" if she thinks that it's prudent for her. Either a profile is too short, or is too long...it never ends. It's always something.

Of course, this requires that you know who you are and who you should be looking for and how to do this.

I think that if we're not careful, we can become kind of "institutionalized" by our online dating activity, such that we begin to form surreal ideas about how everyone is supposed to write and present themselves, and funny ideas about how something is positive, negative, a put-off, pleasant, etc...just like it becomes a run-away train when people speak of their red-flags, pet-peeves, deal-breakers, until people are using really crazy excuses for not interpreting a profile in a reality-derived way, looking for all kinds of reasons to say that someone isn't positive or pleasant or correct enough, or likable by the majority consensus of how to come across as positive or attractive.

Someone tells me that my profile is so-called "off-putting"...I'm going to be able to look at it objectively and see if it is, instead of be influenced too much because others say so, and I'm going to ask myself "Is it really that way? Or is it just because I'm not who those people think I should be? Am I communicating something the way that I need to communicate it, in a way that's neither positive or negative? And these people are just insecure about what I'm saying, or have that institutionalized mindset about how everybody is supposed to write? Or is my writing itself genuinely negative or bitter or insecure, or indicative of an immature attitude? If I cater to this person's critique of how I should "come across", will I completely lose what I need to do to communicate the right things to the right crowd? Or does it successfully communicate the right things, but just in a better, more pleasent way?" And after a certain point, I just don't have time to cater to other people's critiques. I might be catering to an opinion from someone who turns out to be exactly the opposite of who I am and should be looking for, and therefore let myself get sabotaged and screwed over.


Of course, as you know, everyone has a right to their opinion and no doubt opinions will vary. In this scenario, our views greatly differ on OP's profile and photos. And that's ok

Also...let's try to notice that when op asked for other's opinion and I gave mine, an attempt at "flaming" and rudeness took place...I further complimented op as well as pointing out that I always respect varieties of opinion....and then we found it important to explain to me that everyone has the right to their opinion - I don't see how it was necessary to tell me that. So I'm pretty sure that what's going to happen is more pretending that something is going on that isn't going on, trying our damnedest to maneauver things into conflict, to create more flame and insecure defensive jabber, so that we can get this thread deleted also. The alternative being that I don't even say any of this, to avoid feeding the warmongers, and let a thread be dictated and bullied by these attitudes. Always a hoot.
 drivingharmony2
Joined: 6/23/2013
Msg: 71
appearances
Posted: 1/18/2014 10:12:55 AM
^^^^^^Of course, a friendly reminder was necessary to hopefully avoid any defensive jibber jabber. Hmmm,
enough said ;)
 Halcyon_Skies
Joined: 2/1/2009
Msg: 72
appearances
Posted: 1/18/2014 10:30:05 AM

Also...let's try to notice that when op asked for other's opinion and I gave mine, an attempt at "flaming" and rudeness took place...I further complimented op as well as pointing out that I always respect varieties of opinion....and then we found it important to explain to me that everyone has the right to their opinion - I don't see how it was necessary to tell me that.


You weren't merely offering your opinion. Here, you were flame-baiting women that choose to wear make-up:


- I hate make-up myself. Just the idea of make-up seems so weird and nonsensical to me, that more people don't see it this way is something that still perplexes me. Putting paint on your face such that it's the way that you always look? Really?


Cosmetics are not PAINT. Moreover, it's pretty narcissistic to think that *your* opinion of wearing make-up is the only acceptable one, and anyone else's opinion on wearing make-up that differs from yours is "weird" or "nonsensical". Get over yourself.

If you don't care for make-up, that's perfectly fine. You're entitled to your opinion---however, you can express it without putting down other people who don't share it.
 drivingharmony2
Joined: 6/23/2013
Msg: 73
appearances
Posted: 1/18/2014 12:15:46 PM

My brother had me so paranoid, that when I first started spending the night with my BF, I would immediately put makeup on and do my hair right after I got out of the shower or bath.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! and HEHEHHEHEHEEEEHEHEHEHEHEHEH!
I can so relate :)
I have been told I look like I am 10 with no makeup....and I'm not saying a "10"....... I mean the age 10.....


so now he see's me at my worst AND best.


AND that's how it should be! :) ^^^^
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 74
appearances
Posted: 1/18/2014 1:02:17 PM
After reading another thread in which a woman was advised to post some pictures with make-up on and her hair done more stylishly I can't help but wonder if this is something that women expect or do men expect it as well.

Totally depends on the woman. Having a drab hair-cut of the look of a librarian who's depressed and not wearing Any makeup where some applied would make her look a lot better -- isn't good. It's essentially the same as wearing dresses that could be passed for curtains found in an old aunt's basement -- why can that be advised against, but a decent hair style and wearing a little makeup (if it suits them for the better) isn't?

A hair style or makeup in and of itself is not going to make one look better. It's what it is, how it meshes with them -- much like how well clothes fit, it's general style, etc.

I did read some older threads in which men stated they prefer little to no make-up. But that's just the men that DID post.

Well, here's the thing. If you get a gal who doesn't Need to wear any makeup -- that's a big bonus. Quite greedy for a guy to Expect such a woman 30+ for that, though. Less time in the bathroom, resembles low-maintenance. Plus -- more natural beauty to some degree with many.

But I guarantee you one thing. You take a woman who should wear some makeup and have what best suits her applied... and have her walk into a place with it on, and another time without -- guys, regardless of what they prefer in a woman, will have a higher attraction level to when she has it on. Again, for the common lady who looks noticeably better with some applied.

I think a lot of guys don't like a lot of clown-makeup or overly-applied. I had an ex who did that, while she as naturally very pretty (and young at the time). It was almost like having a female version of Ronald McDonald as a gf. But makeup isn't makeup isn't makeup. It's a very generic term that could mean for the best or the not-so-best.

Same goes for hair cut/style, clothing style, and body type within reason. All can be controlled -- few if any people are asking anyone to overdo it and Don't want one to. It's not about expecting a gal to be "dolled up" every day like she's getting ready for Prom. It's more like not to be drab & dull in everything, which to many, requires some upkeep that some may be too lazy about (and they could afford to be at 22 but not 35).
appearances
Posted: 1/18/2014 1:30:21 PM
Ok, I guess it’s classtime - I guess I need to get all technical and show a more accurate and fair way to see all of this…let’s see if I can succeed in showing how it can be productive instead of feeding attempts to argue and get all riled up and angry. But no matter how right or wrong I am, or how well I do this, there’ll probably still be someone who insists on seeing enough ammunition to react with indignation and resentment. The first thing that’s important here is that no one should ever have to explain what I’m about to explain to adults trying to interact with each other.

Overview:

I hate make-up myself. Just the idea of make-up seems so weird and nonsensical to me, that more people don't see it this way is something that still perplexes me. Putting paint on your face such that it's the way that you always look? Really?

…does not equal something like…

Everybody else should hate makeup just like me. The people who like makeup are nonsensical and weird. I “judge” anyone who likes makeup, and I am really into myself.

On the contrary…I stated that I hate makeup. I stated that the idea of it seems weird and nonsensical to me. I stated that I was perplexed by that aspect of our culture that is the practice of often relying on makeup for what one really looks like, for what is attractive, and what is or isn’t beautiful about a person, what’s considered “imperfection” and “blemish”, and how people cannot be attracted to what someone really looks like and relies on the other person to always make themselves look different than what they really do.

Part One:

Op’s exact words were this (it’s very easy to just read the original post, but I’ll list the relevant points here as I don’t expect very many to go to enough honest effort in the first place to read though this anyway) -

I wonder if this [makeup] is something that women expect or do men expect it as well

I would like to know how people feel about natural skin color

This is another thing [high heels] I just don't go in for

I'm fine with the way I am, but it's good to have an idea of where other people's minds are at.

In other words, along with stating her feelings on the subjects, op was kinda-sorta asking for other people’s feelings and opinions on the matters.

Part Two:

My contribution was this -

(op)

- I hate make-up myself. Just the idea of make-up seems so weird and nonsensical to me, that more people don't see it this way is something that still perplexes me. Putting paint on your face such that it's the way that you always look? Really?

- I do like a little color in the skin from getting some sun. Color isn't just about how it looks, but as an indication suggesting that a woman isn't a shut-in who's afraid of the outdoors. But I know that matching everything by getting full and equal exposure can be bothersome, and, all things being equal, I can find a complete lack of color attractive as well.

- Yes, heels on a woman have their own attractiveness, but this isn't something that I'd ever require in a woman either way, because I'd like her appearance just as much without them, and I know that wearing heels must be a pain in the arse.

Part Three:

I then got the following response from another forum poster -

Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean the rest of the world doesn't, taking care of one's skin as a routine thing esp. an older woman using moisturizer, & everyone else using a sunblocker/sunscreen, etc. I once had a co-worker who had vitaligo & she wore foundation to even it out, how is THAT paint? Sounds judgemental IMO, yet people who do NOT like makeup do NOT want to be judged?

I LIKE MY MAKEUP! I like my hair & acoutrements, & I attract the men who like a woman who uses products to ENHANCE, not mask!

I was told that “just because I don’t like makeup, doesn’t mean that the rest of the world doesn’t”…but I was really confused as to why it was necessary to point this out to me, and how it was possibly relevant to what I said.

It was proclaimed that what I said sounded judgemental.

It was declared, with upper-case defensive indignation as if I’d attacked someone, that this person likes their makeup.

Part Four:

When I then responded to this poster with this -

Oh, c'mon now. Don't be trying to start a bunch of "stuff". I thought OP was asking for different views on the subject, and I was just offering mine to go with everyone else's. I'm pretty aware that there are different strokes for different folks, and I never expect everyone to be the same as me. I definately respect the fact that people are different, and I know that with questions such as OP's, what is prudent is to have that variety of responses and opinions. And I'd guess that OP appreciates a variety of what different people think, instead of wanting all the same responses. But I don't know what that bit about being "judgemental" was all about or why it's even necessary. I wasn't being "judgemental", just trying to convey a feel for how I see things of this nature. I said "make-up seems so weird and nonsensical to me, that more people don't see it this way is something that still perplexes me" in order to explain the way I feel about it, but not to judge, and not because I think everyone else should be the same as me.

Relax. Anytime someone uses upper-case letters more than a couple of times, and invokes the "judgemental" word too much, I think that they need to take a minute and breathe.

This is what I got back -

this is what YOU posted:
"I hate make-up myself. Just the idea of make-up seems so weird and nonsensical to me, that more people don't see it this way is something that still perplexes me. Putting paint on your face such that it's the way that you always look? Really?"
Sorry, I wear make-up & I am not the one trying to start a bunch of "stuff"
YOU came on here & insulted make-up wearers & when I called you out on it, you tried to "back-pedal"!
I get what OP says, she thinks she looks good in a more natural state (I think she looks good too) & wants to know if other feel the same...I say to each his own, & don't throw the baby out w/ the bathwater.

It was herein further proclaimed that I somehow insulted makeup wearers…

And that I was “called out” on it, and subsequently tried to “back pedal”. With an explanation mark.

So, when this poster denied trying to “start stuff”, yet found it necessary to pursue this kind of reaction to my post…I was further confused and tried to bring things back to center.

Part Five:

The following additional comments were made about my post -

Cosmetics are not PAINT. Moreover, it's pretty narcissistic to think that *your* opinion of wearing make-up is the only acceptable one, and anyone else's opinion on wearing make-up that differs from yours is "weird" or "nonsensical". Get over yourself.

If you don't care for make-up, that's perfectly fine. You're entitled to your opinion---however, you can express it without putting down other people who don't share it.


You weren't merely offering your opinion. Here, you were flame-baiting women that choose to wear make-up

I was called “narcissistic” because of my post.

It was alledged that I think that my opinion is the only acceptable one.

It was alledged that somehow I need to “get over myself” based on the opinion that I expressed and how I expressed it.

It was alledged that I was putting other people down.

It was alledged that I was flame-baiting women who choose to wear makeup, and was not just trying to add my opinion to everyone else’s.

Part Six, Summation:

- See the Overview at the beginning of this post.

- I’m hoping that readers can see that the responses don’t quite match my post. That they’re not quite relevant. That they’re not quite appropriate.

Part Seven:

In order to help put this all into a more accurate perspective, concerning a response to a post being relevant and appropriate, imagine that I responded in the following ways to the following posts from others -

You would never work for me. When I go to the Opera, my woman looks like a million dollars. She is dolled up and hot. When we go running or biking, we don't give a shit

^ Well EXCUSE me sir! You need to GET OVER yourself. You shouldn’t JUDGE others who don’t want to go to the opera looking like a million dollars and dolled up. And looking nice is NOT dolled up. I’m sorry that I WOULD NEVER WORK FOR YOU. Just because I wouldn’t work for you doesn’t mean that everybody else should be the way that you like. You are NOT all that and a bag of chips. People are different and you should respect that.

Jeni, I can give you my perspective:
As a male, I would expect a woman to accentuate her physical positives. Do you have pretty eyes? Highlight them!
Are your lips full and attractive? Make me notice them! Do you have nice, muscular legs? Show them off!
Jeni, I am not being sexist. Guys, in general, are very visual and are easily attracted by pretty things. So, remember to lead with your best foot when trying to make that best, first positive impression.

^ Look HERE mr. man! Just because YOU would expect a woman to accentuate her physical positives doesn’t mean that we all like to do that. Each to their own, mister! You ARE being sexist by thinking that men are attracted to pretty things! I am NOT just a pretty thing, so get over yourself.

Some guys appreciate the effort. I certainly do. I am always pleasantly surprised when the other person dresses up for certain events. Call me shallow if you will, but it feels great to be with out with a person who is dressed to kill, for a night out. I think it works for a lot of guys too

^ Whoa buddy! Hold on there. Just because I don’t expect that effort doesn’t mean that I don’t appreciate a woman! And just because it works for YOU does not mean that it works for a lot of other guys.

1) Most men want an attractive partner.

2) Beauty is a woman's power.

I would suggest at least a little makeup for your dates and online pics. Sell yourself.

Heels - I understand the beauty aspect of heels, but I have heard that they might be bad for your feet? Flats can look sexy.

^ Speak for YOURSELF! Just because YOU think that beauty is a woman’s power does NOT mean the EVERYBODY ELSE has to be just like you. Narcissistic much? And how dare you suggest at least a little makeup for dates and pics? Everybody doesn’t have to be just like you. Get over yourself. Stop trying to flame bait women who don’t think that they need makeup.

The age old, "You look best without makeup." is a crock

^ I say that. And I believe it. Are you saying that I am a crock? You shouldn’t come in here and insult people calling them a crock who believe that you look best without makeup. You shouldn’t JUDGE people who think that. Just because YOU think that, doesn’t mean that everybody else does.

I have gotten many remarks from guys (IRL and online) about my 'natural' look. I don't wear make up or jewelry (except a watch) and the only thing I do to my hair is wash it - no hairspray, curling iron, etc. All the remarks from guys were compliments - not one person has said to me "wow, go put on some makeup to look better".

People also seem to appreciate that I can be ready to walk out the door to go somewhere with a couple minutes notice since I don't have to say "Oh, I don't have makeup on yet, give me a little bit". There's benefits to having a 'low maintenance' appearance lol. Plus, I don't have to worry about certain 'activities' ruining my hair or makeup

^ Look, girlfriend, are you saying that I have to put on makeup to look better? I don’t look good because I wear jewelry or fix my hair up? Sounds JUDGEMENTAL to me! Do you mean to tell me that if I want to take a minute to put on some makeup first, before walking out the door for something, that I’m wrong for that? YOUR way isn’t the right way for everybody, miss thing! Quit being so into yourself. You need to quit flame-baiting.

Part Eight:

It might be additionally helpful, though not necessarily very applicable, to bear in mind subsequent statements made by op. But if nothing else, it helps to understand the context for the thread which should be mostly defined by op’s intentions -

Thank you to all the grossly critical, inconsiderate, unkind people that plague the forums with a constant stream of negativity. I never asked for or wanted a profile review or a critique of my photos. I was interested in people's opinions in a general sense. Some of you look at a photo and you judge it negatively because it's not what you expect or want, it doesn't fit into your fantasy vision.

My apologies and a sincere thank you to all others who have shared their opinions.

Class Dismissed
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